SMN Veil of Wiyu Novus - Which stats would be BiS?

So I have been saving up Alexandrite... but before I start using them, I want to know what folks in the community think is the best Novus build for SMN.

To preface the discussion:

- It has now been proven that you can have a 44 Crit, 31 Det. There is no scaling or weighing for this i110 weapon. (My two cents: I think this is likely the best build)

- The soldiery gear for SMN has a distinct lack of good Acc choices. So getting accuracy to 470, 480, and so on... for Second Coil can be a bit of a pain. (My two cents: I personally use some i90 gear to give me the necessary Acc)

- Let's not forget that Novus will likley continue to grow in future patches. New gear will also become available, so let's keep that in mind when talking about builds.

For me I think det/crit would be best, that's what I plan on adding unless someone can really show acc would be better over one or the other

1) 471 accuracy for all of Second Coil
2) Book of Spades

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Originally Posted by Exstal

1) 471 accuracy for all of Second Coil

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For T6 and 7 yes. For 8 and 9 you need more, almost 490

I don't understand. Tanks/melee went from 481 => 514 (attacking from front) and casters have to go from 435 => 490? Seems pretty inconsistent.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1362610/

EDIT: Oh, you're accounting for pet..again.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

I don't understand. Tanks/melee went from 481 => 514 (attacking from front) and casters have to go from 435 => 490? Seems pretty inconsistent.

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Garuda-egi went from 450-491ish. SMN by itself is still 471.

You need 492 as far as I recall. I might be a point or two off.

As for putting accuracy on the book, I've found at least myself, if I were doing the book, I wouldn't need it. There's enough accuracy between the Soldiery Gear and Coil drops (assuming you get lucky) to get you to the right accuracy for all of second coil. I say DET/CRIT would be the way to go for sure. That's all assuming of course our accuracy doesn't get gutted when we have to get new gear again.

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Originally Posted by Lito00

So I have been saving up Alexandrite... but before I start using them, I want to know what folks in the community think is the best Novus build for SMN.

To preface the discussion:

- It has now been proven that you can have a 44 Crit, 31 Det. There is no scaling or weighing for this i110 weapon. (My two cents: I think this is likely the best build)

- The soldiery gear for SMN has a distinct lack of good Acc choices. So getting accuracy to 470, 480, and so on... for Second Coil can be a bit of a pain. (My two cents: I personally use some i90 gear to give me the necessary Acc)

- Let's not forget that Novus will likley continue to grow in future patches. New gear will also become available, so let's keep that in mind when talking about builds.

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How you know you can put Crit 44 Det 31 ?

Spades 110 is Crit 31 Det 31 = 66

Because Novus weapons break certain cap restrictions.

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Originally Posted by Altimis

How you know you can put Crit 44 Det 31 ?

Spades 110 is Crit 31 Det 31 = 66

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Same reason this is possible http://imgur.com/Aehn0oy

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

Same reason this is possible http://imgur.com/Aehn0oy

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OMFG This is absolute best

Good thing I hold back Sand and not use it on weapon lol (been thinking its possible to up to 75 total Det + Crit)

Thank you for pic and prove, finally find a reason worth to do Novus

Time to say bye bye Spades Weathered lol

The High Allagan Gear has a ton of accuracy on it. I imagine if you get enough of it you would be able to go crit/det on the Novus.

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Originally Posted by Altimis

How you know you can put Crit 44 Det 31 ?

Spades 110 is Crit 31 Det 31 = 66

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On the book of spades determination is the main stat and crit is the second stat. Its kind of dumb the way it works but since determination is valued higher, the cap for it being in the first slot is the same as if it is in the second slot.

Thanks for posting this because I was very confused about how Novus stats would compare to upgraded Book of Spades. Crit+det is the obvious choice, and I wondered if the stats would be the exact same, or novus would have an edge... SMN is in a very unique situation in that Book of Spades has ideal stats, so novus would be a waste if the stats were identical... but if you can add more crit than the book of spades has, then that is nice.

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Originally Posted by Sequora

On the book of spades determination is the main stat and crit is the second stat. Its kind of dumb the way it works but since determination is valued higher, the cap for it being in the first slot is the same as if it is in the second slot.

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I already start with Determination first

I still can get 44 crit later? curious lol

Yes, 44 Crit + 31 Det is an improvement over the Book of Spades, but that 13 extra crit is a literally negligible increase over the former. Too negligible, I'd argue, to justify the time spent in creating a Novus just to replace it.

My recommendation would be to put some Accuracy on the weapon. Since Magic Damage is so much more a determinant of a weapon's damage than its secondary stats, your weapon is the one place where you can get away with sacrificing secondary stats without sacrificing too much damage. A bit of Accuracy will help you reach caps in the Second Coil and ease the transition into the Third Coil, where the Accuracy Caps will likely be even higher. That way, you can keep the Book of Spades around when you want to nuke and use the Novus when you need some Accuracy.

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Originally Posted by Sequora

On the book of spades determination is the main stat and crit is the second stat. Its kind of dumb the way it works but since determination is valued higher, the cap for it being in the first slot is the same as if it is in the second slot.

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Yep, it's valued higher. Think of a given weapon as having X number of "secondary stat points". Crit Rate costs 1 point our of your X. Determination, however, costs about 1.415 points out of your X. The Book of Spades has 75 points. The 31 Determination on it comes at a cost of 44 points, and the remaining 31 are in Crit. These values don't apply, however, to a Novus. Everything costs 1. A weapon with 44 Crit and 31 Det uses 88 secondary stat points. A weapon with 33 Piety, 31 Determination, and 11 of anything else uses a whopping 99!

Thanks everyone for your responses. Your insights have been quite helpful.

Anyone have any idea what the 13 extra crit (compared to Book of Spades) equates to from a DPS perspective? If it truly is negligible, then Donjo's argument for going the accuracy route may have some serious merit.

13 crit is almost 1% more crit chance... which in the end only means less than 0.5% damage difference. imo smn novus is only useful if you consider it will always have a place as long as it is upgradable. Acc route seems pointless, since you can get all the acc you ever need from t6+7

But wouldnt it be better to have a crit/det build and just a few acc items to get the 491 to summon garuda then switch back ?

Thats what I did for titan vit, surely it would have the same affect for garuda.

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Originally Posted by Sanguisio

But wouldnt it be better to have a crit/det build and just a few acc items to get the 491 to summon garuda then switch back ?

Thats what I did for titan vit, surely it would have the same affect for garuda.

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Spur (and other things) will reset your egi's stats using your current gear set

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

Spur (and other things) will reset your egi's stats using your current gear set

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This also works the same way for stats increased by Food. It'll go by what stats you have from your gear and not additional means like Echo or Potions (now Echo is on pets so SMN isn't gimped in T1-5 anymore)

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Originally Posted by Exstal

EDIT: Oh, you're accounting for pet..again.

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Of course I am. An Egi to a SMN is like a shield to a PLD, both are incredibly important to the respective job

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

Spur (and other things) will reset your egi's stats using your current gear set

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This is sadly true. Hopefully at one point SE will either make the Egis' acc cap the same as the summoner or at the very least, benefit from the summoner's food buff.

You have no reason to put any accuracy on it. Any BiS list for either crit or det with 110 options ends up with like 496 accuracy. personally I have 514 right now and I'm certainly not wearing pieces for the accuracy they give.

Assuming your in the position I'm in (No Coil Turn 2 at all, but have beaten everything up to it [Minus Turn 5 in my case, but that's not important for the build]), You get 429 accuracy from having the best ilvl gear available (Soldiery + Animus)

If you step back to crafted i90 for one piece, and get a Ribbon of Casting, you can get to 462.

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/m...ps121a5ccc.png

With a second piece, of crafted, you get to 483 accuracy

Which means, without any Coil 2 gear and only a gil investment off 420-500k, depending on server, you can get 8 shy of the accuracy cap for the entirety of coil. Which means you only need one more piece of i90 crafted, or you can just do the lower levels of Coil 2 until you get a piece you need (Not ideal, I suppose). Even without the Ribbon (12 Acc), that's only 3 pieces if i90 crafted.

So, the question really is - How poor are you?

EDIT: Also consider that you can farm Leviathan for the Wave Grimoire, and just use that weapon when you get to the higher levels of Coil 2. You'll take a minor dps hit, but wont have to go through the hassle of re-doing your Animus later.

EDIT EDIT: Brain farted about the food.

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Originally Posted by Bombast

If you use HQ Lava Toad Legs (+23 accuracy) that gets you to 485.

Which means, without any Coil 2 gear and only a gil investment off 200-250k, depending on server, you can get six shy of the accuracy cap for the entirety of coil. Which means you only need one more piece of i90 crafted, or you can just do the lower levels of Coil 2 until you get a piece you need (Not ideal, I suppose). Even without the Ribbon (12 Acc), that's only two pieces if i90 crafted.

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You need 491 accuracy without food for all of second coil. Your pet does not get any benefit from food, so accuracy food is usually a waste for a summoners.

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Originally Posted by ticdup

You need 491 accuracy without food for all of second coil. Your pet does not get any benefit from food, so accuracy food is usually a waste for a summoners.

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Oh.

Then you need 3 pieces of i90 crafted. Bummer.

Edtting.

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Originally Posted by Bombast

Oh.

Then you need 3 pieces of i90 crafted. Bummer.

Edtting.

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I'm not using any pieces of crafted and I'm at 483 accuracy with only 1 coil drop (bracelets)
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1200595/

You shouldn't upgrade pieces that already have accuracy for pieces that don't unless you can compensate in some way, which is why I'm still using Myth head and gloves and Coil boots. Let's look at Bard for example using the i90 BiS. Assuming they never got Coil pants, if they upgraded from the i90 body to the i100 body, they won't have the accuracy for even T5. Going for accessories first was a big step forward compared to straight upgrading the body, which is what one of my Bard friends did and he came off in very good shape.

Some of the Soldiery pieces are great for BLM, but they're horrid for SMN since we need more accuracy then a BLM would, and sadly, we have to rely on terrible coil RNG for the main source of accuracy

Also yes I am very poor. I'm barely playing this game if I'm not raiding, so I have little to no drive to make money. What I make comes from helping friends with roulettes, challange logs and level 50 ventures. As much as I love crafted equipment, it's not an option for me

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Originally Posted by ticdup

You need 491 accuracy without food for all of second coil. Your pet does not get any benefit from food, so accuracy food is usually a waste for a summoners.

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Incorrect. You need 491 for T8 and T9 only. T6 is 471 and T7 is 481.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Incorrect. You need 491 for T8 and T9 only. T6 is 471 and T7 is 481.

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and you most likely wont be going from T6-8 in the first week you do it so you should be able to get more gear by that time. The ring and necklace from T6 alone are massive accuracy boosts

If you aren't doing 2nd coil you don't need to worry about the accuracy for it. If you're just not getting drops you're better off swapping pieces than wasting the stats on your annoying as shit to get relic.

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Originally Posted by Sen_Terrechant

and you most likely wont be going from T6-8 in the first week you do it so you should be able to get more gear by that time. The ring and necklace from T6 alone are massive accuracy boosts

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Indeed and considering that the acc required for SMN for T5 are nigh identical, you're guarenteed acc cap if you start doing the Second Coil.

Do you think 8 points of determination and 11 points of critical hit rate are worth 4 million+ gil?

Because that's what you'll be spending on those Tier IVs.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Do you think 8 points of determination and 11 points of critical hit rate are worth 4 million+ gil?

Because that's what you'll be spending on those Tier IVs.

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When min/max'ing is the question, the cost is irrelevant and entirely subjective to each person.

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Originally Posted by Dwill

When min/max'ing is the question, the cost is irrelevant and entirely subjective to each person.

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Also the book will have more upgrades. Talking about BiS with the current Novus with Book of Spades in the equation is silly- but it will upgrade down the path further then BoS so its worth it to some people.

Honestly i dont see a reason to do anything but Det/Crit. Yes it will be barely better then BoS but it will get better eventually.

If your going to grind for that long, might as well grind for the right stats

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Originally Posted by Sen_Terrechant

Also the book will have more upgrades. Talking about BiS with the current Novus with Book of Spades in the equation is silly- but it will upgrade down the path further then BoS so its worth it to some people.

Honestly i dont see a reason to do anything but Det/Crit. Yes it will be barely better then BoS but it will get better eventually.

If your going to grind for that long, might as well grind for the right stats

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Exactly. And if the following raid gear follows the same path as the Second Coil, ACC will still be a non-issue.