Cleric Stance recast.

I'd much like this to be instant or 1 second recast. When you have those oops moments during battle due to trigger happy fingers clicking it off then back on, it can be pretty annoying to wait those 5 long seconds and maybe in some speed run cases(at least as WHM), deadly!

Just my opinion, it's not going to break the game if lower than 5 seconds.

Even as a SCH I'd support this, even if my lustrate, stoneskin, and fairy really don't care what stance I'm in.

Only ways around cleric stance penalties for WHMs are regen, and medica 2 used ahead of time, benediction (dat recast though...), and stoneskin iirc. I think that's everything.

I don't support this idea. People need to learn to execute it properly at all times. There's literally nothing challenging to it otherwise and no sense of calculated risk-taking. If you are accidentally hitting it, consider swapping your keybinds. If you're just miscalculating the situation at hand - try to one-up your raid awareness for incoming damage and thinking ahead a bit etc.

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Originally Posted by Tranquil

I don't support this idea. People need to learn to execute it properly at all times. There's literally nothing challenging to it otherwise and no sense of calculated risk-taking. If you are accidentally hitting it, consider swapping your keybinds. If you're just miscalculating the situation at hand - try to one-up your raid awareness for incoming damage and thinking ahead a bit etc.

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Probably the first time I've cringed and laughed at the same time. It's just a suggestion for a little tweak chill out, lol.

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Originally Posted by Riko_Futatabi

Probably the first time I've cringed and laughed at the same time. It's just a suggestion for a little tweak chill out, lol.

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And I posted feedback to your suggestion. I am pretty chill, but that's just what I think about it. There're enough healers who faceroll with the DPSing as it is, so I feel like the 5s recast timer is nice for penalizing people for bad judgement. It also somewhat makes the whole stance-dancing deal seem a bit more meaningful. I wouldn't mind it if your suggestion got implemented as it would change nothing for me, but I think the current system is nice as people need to think ahead 2 GCDs, so some people might not have the confidence to do it in certain situations. Thus, it's something you can build up on and improve your gameplay via trial and error. Nothing wrong with you or anyone else disagreeing with my point of view though.

My complaint is that it is on the front end of the ability instead of the back. I am not sure why it is designed to have the cooldown when activated, but not deactivated. Given the games natural buff delays, it isn't too uncommon to accidentally toggle it back on from a double tap because you thought the initial disable didn't take. They need to let it activate without a cooldown, then throw the 5 second delay when you turn it back off. This removes the fat finger complaint (which is completely valid) without ruining the strategic usage.

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Originally Posted by StarHate

They need to let it activate without a cooldown, then throw the 5 second delay when you turn it back off. This removes the fat finger complaint (which is completely valid) without ruining the strategic usage.

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Although then a tremendously small percent of players would fat finger themselves back out of cleric stance when they want to dps. Perhaps apply the 5sec cooldown to turning it on AND off. Fat fingers rejoice! You're stuck in either stance for 2 GCDs, don't let the world go to shite in that time , neh?

If you want to dps, you must pay the price for it.

Cleric stance (on and off CD) was already addressed in Japanese website.
They not going to touch it because, it simply makes healer over powered.
That ability not only swaps current mind and int, but also provide extra 10% damage boost. Which means, any healers who activated CS are now per with any dpsers out there with healing ability. Speaking of WHMs.. Holy is 2nd powerful AoE spell next to flare. If you have i100 weapon and (this is optional) activated presence of mind, you can easily out dps blms and other dpsers. All in all... Unfortunately, cleric stance will remain the same. So, better get used to it :)

Hahaha, yeah, for those oh sh*th moments, i mean, people dont need abilitie to use this, but when u r dpsing and the tank decides to absorb all aos he can, well, he dies cause my oh sh*th was tap 2 times cs xD

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Originally Posted by AngelicSence

If you want to dps, you must pay the price for it.

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OP said in case of fat fingering/double tapping, which happens.

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Cleric stance (on and off CD) was already addressed in Japanese website.

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You should link that if you're going to mention it.

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They not going to touch it because, it simply makes healer over powered.

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It actually won't change anything compared to now assuming the healer knows what's coming in the next 5 seconds, and people don't take unexpected/avoidable damage at a bad time (aka decent players).

Removing that CD won't make healers like me who toggle it on and off when needed/appropriate any stronger than they already are, like tranquil said:

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I wouldn't mind it if your suggestion got implemented as it would change nothing for me

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I don't see how the 5 second wait to toggle off the stance keeps us in check, especially SCHs considering DOTs don't care once they're up, and lustrate+fairy don't care at all. It's more annoying than anything else. Your point of 'having to pay a price' barely applies as is because of HOTs, DOTs, pets, and % hp heals.

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Originally Posted by StarHate

My complaint is that it is on the front end of the ability instead of the back. I am not sure why it is designed to have the cooldown when activated, but not deactivated. Given the games natural buff delays, it isn't too uncommon to accidentally toggle it back on from a double tap because you thought the initial disable didn't take. They need to let it activate without a cooldown, then throw the 5 second delay when you turn it back off. This removes the fat finger complaint (which is completely valid) without ruining the strategic usage.

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I like this.

Fanservice http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...スの仕様について/page1.
If this continues, they just going to nerf the cleric stance. Both would have 5 sec CD or whatever. You have to understand that cleric stance is very powerful spell. You can be good dpser and healer at the same time. I don't get this because, I don't make any mistakes like double clicking, and so majority of people in this thread. It's however, unfair for everyone who make such a mistake, but they can only nerf the skill and not buff it.

It's annoying for sure! But I can see why it has a 5sec recast.

When you use cleric stance, you're basically making yourself unable to heal for 5secs (maybe 6-7secs with animation times?) which is obviously a risk for your party. If you don't think that your tank/party will survive if you don't heal for 2-3 GCDs then you can't use it.

It does not make sense to add cool down for take-off CS.
CS is an ability to cast a buff which requires manually take-off, it should not have cool down to take-off the buff.

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Originally Posted by StarHate

....They need to let it activate without a cooldown, then throw the 5 second delay when you turn it back off. This removes the fat finger complaint (which is completely valid) without ruining the strategic usage.

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OMG, for what logic to suggest no cool down on using an ability but adding delay when turn it back off?
"turn is back off" means you are going to heal, I can't believe any healer will want to have a delay healing . ^^;

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

OMG, for what logic to suggest no cool down on using an ability but adding delay when turn it back off?
"turn is back off" means you are going to heal, I can't believe any healer will want to have a delay healing . ^^;

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i think you misunderstood his usage of 'delay'

if the main complaint is that sometimes you re-cast it by doubledipping, simply adding the 'delay' to both buffing and cancelling it means you're not going to re-cast it by accident as it will be on cooldown

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Originally Posted by StarHate

My complaint is that it is on the front end of the ability instead of the back. I am not sure why it is designed to have the cooldown when activated, but not deactivated. Given the games natural buff delays, it isn't too uncommon to accidentally toggle it back on from a double tap because you thought the initial disable didn't take. They need to let it activate without a cooldown, then throw the 5 second delay when you turn it back off. This removes the fat finger complaint (which is completely valid) without ruining the strategic usage.

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^this. Cooldown is fine but I'd rather have it when I turn it off, especially when I lag.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

^this. Cooldown is fine but I'd rather have it when I turn it off, especially when I lag.

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Well.. With all the respect, we are talking about an accident that could happen within a second. If you support that idea.. Healers won't be able to dps when needed. If people really can't learn or having hard time using cleric stance. Why not add 1 sec cool down when we turn it off?.

Dps from healers is never needed and I know how to stance, but I'd rather have gimped Stone II than a gimped Cure.

Nope to this.
If other classes mess up they have to suffer the consequences, so should we.

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Originally Posted by AngelicSence

You have to understand that cleric stance is very powerful spell. You can be good dpser and healer at the same time.

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I'd appreciate it if you stop talking to me as if I don't know how cleric stance works.

Now tell me how in your mind removing the 5 second recast on activation/moving the 5 second recast to the deactivation of cleric stance makes healers any stronger than they already can be.


It's not going to change anything for people who don't make a common mistake like double tapping the skill back on, and having their potential non % based heals cut nearly in half for 5 seconds because they pressed a button twice by accident.

This is what we call a quality of life change. These tend to not alter the current potential strength of classes. If you don't understand the difference between a buff and a QoL change, you shouldn't discuss game balance.

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I don't get this because, I don't make any mistakes like double clicking

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Good for you.

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It's however, unfair for everyone who make such a mistake, but they can only nerf the skill and not buff it.

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Did you miss the best suggestions in this thread that actually has nothing to do with directly nerfing or buffing the skill?

I'm basically repeating what has already been said, but the idea is instead of having your heals cut in half for 5 seconds because of accidental double tapping/fat fingering, have potential damage lost instead.

Megaflare ended. Turning on Cleric stance!

Add spawn. Attempt to turn off Cleric Stance but it reapplies again.

Oops.

They could just make the Cleric Stance recast be 2.5 sec on both activation and de-activation.

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When you use cleric stance, you're basically making yourself unable to heal for 5secs (maybe 6-7secs with animation times?) which is obviously a risk for your party. If you don't think that your tank/party will survive if you don't heal for 2-3 GCDs then you can't use it.

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However this is also true. I can see the reasons for it being the way it is.

I like cleric stance where it is at the moment. It needs to feel like a risk to decide to do some DPS, if we could switch it on and off quicker the risk would go away.

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Originally Posted by fanservice

I'd appreciate it if you stop talking to me as if I don't know how cleric stance works.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...セードスタンスの仕様について

Deleted..... :p

Cleric Stance is same as Defiance ,Fists of Fire, Fists of Winds.. etc.
The logic is, it instant casts an buff, reuse to cancel, cancel is not casting the buff so cancel will not trigger recast time.

Please consider for system consistency, please also think about those abilities in the same type, ie. Defiance and Fists of Fire ..etc ^^;

I have cleric stance on a different Menu that i can switch between freely--if the party is solid aind doens't need much healing, i switch to my "Sub-DPS" hotkey menu which has Cleric stance. If i need to focus more on healing, i will stay on my Healer hotkey menu. which i did no put cleric stance onto for this specific reason.

the most 'omg that changing my life' thing was to put cleric stance on 'mouse3' ( click on the roulette ) =)

The only change they should make to cleric stance is to have it affect SCH fairy as well. As it stands now, it's much more punishing to its own parent class than to the one who picks it up as merely a cross skill.

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Originally Posted by yahhzoo

I like cleric stance where it is at the moment. It needs to feel like a risk to decide to do some DPS, if we could switch it on and off quicker the risk would go away.

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At this point, I'm tired of repeating the fact that posters here don't want the opportunity cost of cleric stance usage to go away; multiple posters here want a safety measure built in to cleric stance to prevent fat fingering/double tapping from cutting healing 5 seconds longer than intended.

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Originally Posted by Velox

The only change they should make to cleric stance is to have it affect SCH fairy as well. As it stands now, it's much more punishing to its own parent class than to the one who picks it up as merely a cross skill.

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That's just spiteful...

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Originally Posted by fanservice

At this point, I'm tired of repeating the fact that posters here don't want the opportunity cost of cleric stance usage to go away; multiple posters here want a safety measure built in to cleric stance to prevent fat fingering/double tapping from cutting healing 5 seconds longer than intended.

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I didn't realize that stating my opinion about cleric stance was making you repeat your fact. I apologize madam. May I suggest a different keybind for CS so you don't fat finger/double click it too much?

Because that would be too easy. Majority of players in Japan voted to "no" as well.
There is reason why it has 5 sec CD. It's just different way of thinking, we don't want to see everyone use cleric stance safely.
Just like atma and animus, we don't want to see drop rate increased, simply because some people are lazy to farm it. However, I'm not saying that's not good. Sure it would help many people. But, how about those who farmed atma's so hard everyday... how about those who don't make mistakes.. The thing is, people just want equality that will go against hard working players. In this case, preventing cleric stance from tapping it twice means, they are actually buffing the skill, because SE want you to make that mistake, they want us to be careful because we are best healing class in the game who has potential to be good dps class.

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Originally Posted by yahhzoo

I didn't realize that stating my opinion about cleric stance was making you repeat your fact. I apologize madam. May I suggest a different keybind for CS so you don't fat finger/double click it too much?

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I'm just saying there seems to be a disconnect here between people who want a change, and the opposition.

Most opposing points here are geared more to 'cleric stance doesn't need a buff', when people who want a change here aren't suggesting a buff in the first place; just something to prevent accidental re-activation of cleric stance after turning it off.

People who don't make mistakes won't be effected. Healers don't get any stronger. People won't have cleric stance accidentally turn back on after turning it off due to faulty keyboards, twitchy fingers, etc.

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Originally Posted by Infina

Megaflare ended. Turning on Cleric stance!

Add spawn. Attempt to turn off Cleric Stance but it reapplies again.

Oops.

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Also, here is a suggestion;

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Originally Posted by StarHate

My complaint is that it is on the front end of the ability instead of the back. I am not sure why it is designed to have the cooldown when activated, but not deactivated. Given the games natural buff delays, it isn't too uncommon to accidentally toggle it back on from a double tap because you thought the initial disable didn't take. They need to let it activate without a cooldown, then throw the 5 second delay when you turn it back off. This removes the fat finger complaint (which is completely valid) without ruining the strategic usage.

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One more thing

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Originally Posted by AngelicSence

they are actually buffing the skill, because SE want you to make that mistake

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That's called artificial difficulty. Learn it.

This is generally prevented in almost all other abilities because of 2.5 second recasts. Cleric stance allows you to turn it back on the moment you turn it off.

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Originally Posted by Nicobo

Cleric Stance is same as Defiance ,Fists of Fire, Fists of Winds.. etc.
The logic is, it instant casts an buff, reuse to cancel, cancel is not casting the buff so cancel will not trigger recast time.

Please consider for system consistency, please also think about those abilities in the same type, ie. Defiance and Fists of Fire ..etc ^^;

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turn off CS is not casting the buff so it will not trigger recast time. It is same as Defiance ,Fists of Fire, Fists of Winds.. etc.

Let's put this in perspective:
So, the role of the class is "Healer", mmmkay?
So this Cleric Stance thing, it allows you to quickly go to DPS mode, but prevents you from going to Healer mode for 5 seconds after you activate it. Basically, it prevents you, the Healer, from becoming a Healer.

Why not prevent the Healer from becoming a DPS, by adding a cooldown when you turn it off instead of adding a cooldown when you turn it back on?

In fact, nerf it: keep the de-activation cooldown as is, and add 1 second activation cooldown too. Nobody who de-activates Cleric Stance really wants to go back to DPS again, because that's Cure time

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Originally Posted by fanservice

That's just spiteful...

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Not really, I'm interested in this simply from the viewpoint of fairness. As it stands now, Cleric Stance gimps 1 job's healing 100% and only gimps the other job's healing 50%. Either they should both be 100% or they should both be 50% to make it fair.
This is why I suggested that the fairy also be included when activating Cleric Stance.
Another solution would be for CS to only affect Cure II, Cure III, and Medica II. This way WHM would have half their healing toolset untouched in a similar way to SCH.

Am I the only one who does a DF Brayflox run, tank says "full pull whm dps" I'm like, ok. Then he doesnt pop cooldowns at all and I wish I could turn Cleric's Stance off sooner?

Other than that, I don't really mind. I sometimes push it by accident just because it's on my mouse (so I can acitvate/deactivate it quickly) but sometimes it doesn't want to go off and I reactivate it again by clicking it multiple times (as OP states). Luckily, doesn't always means deaths. But it sometimes does. Ohwell...

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Originally Posted by Velox

Not really, I'm interested in this simply from the viewpoint of fairness. As it stands now, Cleric Stance gimps 1 job's healing 100% and only gimps the other job's healing 50%. Either they should both be 100% or they should both be 50% to make it fair.
This is why I suggested that the fairy also be included when activating Cleric Stance.
Another solution would be for CS to only affect Cure II, Cure III, and Medica II. This way WHM would have half their healing toolset untouched in a similar way to SCH.

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Regen before you hit cleric stance.

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Originally Posted by fanservice

I'd appreciate it if you stop talking to me as if I don't know how cleric stance works.

Now tell me how in your mind removing the 5 second recast on activation/moving the 5 second recast to the deactivation of cleric stance makes healers any stronger than they already can be.

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Here's how, speaking as a career WHM.
CS on -> Swiftcast + Holy -> CS off -> right back to healing
I just did my most powerful damage ability at full strength and only lost one CD to do it. As it currently stands I must lose two CDs to do that. That is a buff no matter how many ways you slice it.

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Originally Posted by Brine_Gildchaff

CS on -> Swiftcast + Holy -> CS off -> right back to healing

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This is my favorite, that stun = :D