Proove same-gender marriage is controversial: Hold A Vote!

Today another 45+ page long thread on same-sex marriage vanished.
And like always, some people were arguing that disallowing it violates equality, while others were stating their disgust and disapproval of it.

The main argument against allowing same-gender marriage is that it's controversial.
But how does SE know that?

Forum threads are full of biased opinionated people stating their views. They aren't necessarily representative of the entire game community.

And SE says they want the opinion of their players.

So here is an easy solution to ending 100s of threads.

Hold A Vote

step 1. stick an NPC outside the marriage area in game.

step 2. Ask : "Should same-gender marriage be accepted in a church of the twelve"
1. yes
2. no
3. indifferent

step 3: offer a reward for answering (e.g. vanity earring) just so that you don't get a biased sample (a reward incentivizes people not interested in the subject to answer)

step 4:
Tally it up
See what the community really thinks
Make it public (I'd argue show the results by region like in previous polls)

step 5:
Decide based on the results

Why Do This?
Removes the debate and negativity from the community
Creates a justification for the final decision
Allows you to implement the decision straight into the lore of the game (instead of basing it on real life controversy which may offend people)

Why This Suggestion (A Response To Criticisms)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xeonerable

OP looking for attention again.

---

Don't see how this gets me any personal attention. No private messaging and no one knows who I am outside the boards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Inquisitor

How do they know it? Maybe they watch the news every once in a while. Or read these forums.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by muwa

40+ pages long threads that get nowhere and are full of personal attacks are more than enough proof that it's controversial.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Inquisitor

How do they know it? Maybe they watch the news every once in a while. Or read these forums.

---

I live in Canada where gay marriage is legal and a majority of the country (fairly strong majority) supports it. It's not controversial here, or in many other countries.
A few extreme opinions on a forum does not = the entire community
Sociology studies show people who use the internet are generally more liberal. People who play MMOs are even more so. Likelihood is the majority of "western" players in this game either support same-sex marriage or are indifferent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kidvideo

Sorry but this is a terrible idea. Simple numbers do not equal what is the right & equitable thing to do.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Luxx

The subject title is wtf, no offense.
Everyone knows that this stuff is very controversial....obviously, that is why these threads get deleted every single time we turn around.
I personally reported that thread myself, and asked for it to be deleted because these forums cannot handle a debate
of any kind really.

---

Numbers never equal what is ethical or moral. The ethical or moral avenue here is to make the maximum number of people happy. Some people getting same-sex marriage without it effecting others allows for that.

However, SE is a company. Publicly traded. In it for profit, and not ethical aptitude. If 70% of the player base is for/indifferent to same-sex marriage, then it will be a clear message to them that by not including it they are alienating a number of their customers. There is no way to "guess" the opinions of customers. And forum posts generally only show extreme attitudes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ghasto

who bloody cares, it's a videogame, stop dragging issues into it.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SirSaber

It's a game, not real, virtual, so why arguing about whenever or not same gender mariage is alowed or not?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bizniztyme

Making a big deal out of nothing. Forgot these forums are a bunch of drama queens/kings.

---

Imagine if someone told you that due to a factor you can't control (like your height, race, gender, body part size, weight, skin colour, where you were born, etc), you aren't allowed to do something.

For example "You're green and in our country we believe people with green skin are different. Therefore you can't use the same bathroom as everyone else"
or "You're over 6'3 tall so you can't marry someone you love because if you get married you might corrupt our society"
or in this case "You're gay, so you can't marry other people because gay rights are controversial"

It's not the "gay marriage" part that offends people. It's that stating gay marriage is controversial is publicly justifying treating gay couples as different from hetero couples. And in turn, promoting the idea that people who are gay are "different" and don't share the same rights.

Equality is Equality.
Telling someone they aren't equal because of X, Y, or Z, is hurtful.
Taking an extra step in the code to prevent 2 characters from getting married based on their gender is a statement, rather than a way to save time.

So why does this topic matter to people?
Because people want to be equal.
And when people use "controversy" or the "beliefs of a few" to discriminate against a group of people, it is damaging that concept of equality.

Nobody wants to be told "You shouldn't be allowed happiness because you are different from me"

Honstly I dont care about marriage it self but if it gona happened then same-sex should be there since most of my male friends playing girls character in ffix and other games , so even if it was there it will be useless for them since they cant marry anorher girl .

1: Inb4 delete (oblig)
2: I'd rather SE have the strength of their own convictions one way or the other. I don't like people putting opinion polls above their own sense of morality.
3: If they were to do this I think relaxing results by region might be polarising. eg "we'd have SSM by now if it weren't for those homophobic {nationality}"

Sorry but this is a terrible idea. Simple numbers do not equal what is the right & equitable thing to do. The US legal system is proving that, most prominently with the overturning of California's Proposition 8. The majority vote for the Proposition was found to be discriminatory & anything that excludes a minority group will always be discriminatory.

https://warosu.org/data/vr/img/0014/...2389720842.jpg

Or, you know, we can realize this is the 21st century and stop being so pent up about what other people do with their private lives, including options in their entertainment.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/a.../2825737_o.gif

These sort of threads are about as regular as the tides, arrive all at once, then recede together for a time.

Making a big deal out of nothing. Forgot these forums are a bunch of drama queens/kings.

What i Don't get is why people care who you run dungeons with...Lmao How is someone else party member choice gonna effect my game? You guys can marry your chocobo for all i care.... It's not like world religions or social opinion "SHOULD" really matter in a FANTASY WORLD called Eoreza... Let's get back to the game!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azurymber

...

So here is an easy solution to ending 100s of threads.

...

---

You can't honestly mean that. If all you wanted was a +1 to your post count you could have just dumped a random .gif in the other related threads like everyone else.

OP looking for attention again.

http://i.imgur.com/U0pLhoj.gif

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azurymber

The main argument against allowing same-gender marriage is that it's controversial.
But how does SE know that?

---

How do they know it? Maybe they watch the news every once in a while. Or read these forums.

Personally, I'm fine with gay marriage in-game and irl. But suggesting that it may not REALLY be controversial is just silly.

The subject title is wtf, no offense.
Everyone knows that this stuff is very controversial....obviously, that is why these threads get deleted every single time we turn around.
I personally reported that thread myself, and asked for it to be deleted because these forums cannot handle a debate
of any kind really. That thread had a huge amount of hate in it. I couldn't believe it. Worst marriage topics I ever seen on here.
Not sure if marriage should even be allowed in this game anymore. It's too much of a huge ass deal when it's suppose
to be fluff content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azurymber

The main argument against allowing same-gender marriage is that it's controversial.
But how does SE know that?

---

40+ pages long threads that get nowhere and are full of personal attacks are more than enough proof that it's controversial.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by muwa

40+ pages long threads that get nowhere and are full of personal attacks are more than enough proof that it's controversial.

---

the fact that its on the internet makes it 40 pages of personal attacks

I think we should hold a vote to prove that videogame marriage is really stupid.

who bloody cares, it's a videogame, stop dragging issues into it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by AarinEphemera

http://i.imgur.com/U0pLhoj.gif

---

http://i.imgur.com/wcwg7TE.gif

Oh look old thread locked. New trhead made 5 min later. I'm not having this useless discussion again. Let's make this simple, I'm right and you're wrong because reasons. This topic in a nutshell.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ma...p03zo1_400.png

You guys need to learn to pick your battles. I support gay marriage in real life and even I'm getting sick of this.

Marriages will add absolutely nothing to this game, it is 100% a waste of the developers' time. They should scrap the whole thing just so there's nothing to complain about.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...3/arguecat.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hyrist

Or, you know, we can realize this is the 21st century and stop being so pent up about what other people do with their private lives, including options in their entertainment.

---

What ever happened to using one's imagination? Wedding clothing is coming (from what I hear). What is so wrong with having two people dress up in appropriate attire, have a friend craft some rings, another friend act as the preacher?

Or do people honestly want a whole NPC dialog quest to get "married" in game?

SE should keyword "marriage" so when people make threads constantly about it they're rejected before they even show up. If players can't agree, don't add it at all. These threads are just getting ridiculous

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quiz

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/a.../2825737_o.gif

---

Need more Adventure !

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/...1866-india.gif

/joke

I don't get why Yay'ers and Nay'ers care so much about this.
It's a game, not real, virtual, so why arguing about whenever or not same gender mariage is alowed or not?

It's vecause of people like you (talking to them drama queens/kings ) that SE didn't add wedding any sooner.

If I were SE I would say this;

"What? You're all crying because some whant same sex mariage and others don't? No wedding for you all then."

I'm firmly in the camp that the issue should not be addressed at all. What I mean is - shelve the whole marriage thing for about 5 years and then revisit it. The game has vastly improved, but we're still nowhere near the level of polish where they devs can sit back and fluff it up yet and this is just too big and personal a deal for too many people. We don't need ANY kind of marriage in game, and yes I realize that a handful of people who were really looking forward to it and already happen to have the appropriate sexes on their characters to participate might be disappointed, but it IS a super controversial hot topic right now and if SE knew what was good for them (and the game), they'd put it on the back burner and worry about actual game stuff.

Let us fight new dragons, not each other over what pixel gets to marry another pixel.

Having said all that, I think that the title of this thread shouldn't be "Prove it's controversial". It is. What it SHOULD say is "Prove that including it will make the game and company implode." We all know the answer is no (Lionshead, Bioware, Bethesda all have these options and have for years and years), but in the interest of the vocal minority just don't kick this hornet's nest. Just don't do it. We don't need this particular fluff content THAT badly that it's worth the shitstorm of negative press SE will surely get if they build in discrimination.

http://i.imgur.com/TmAXuMx.jpg

@PandaPause

I can't help but laugh each time I see your signature. I hated that damn dog in duck hunt but it is so apt to that Predator scene.

Plus, results would be skewed. IMMA MAKE 8 ALTS TO VOTE! HURR

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noahlimits

Plus, results would be skewed. IMMA MAKE 8 ALTS TO VOTE! HURR

---

Not any harder to turn it into a quest that can't be repeated and make it per account. HURR

I think everyone seems to be ignoring or skirting one of the bigger issues here. This game is international. Anything added to the game has to cross borders, whether you like it or not, and some of those countries have rather draconian policies. Best to avoid the culture shock in the first place by simply not adding it.

If it was a single player experience, this would be less of an issue as the localization can deal with it. But being an MMO these things HAVE to be considered. It's got nothing to do with what they might WANT to do or what the players want. It's the law, so deal with it.

I'd like to reinforce my statement by saying that I have no issue whatsoever with same-sex marriage. In fact, I'm rather appalled at the state of some countries which still treat the gay community with contempt. However, my feelings are moot given that there are still REAL restrictions on what SE can do in this matter. The sooner we all learn that's just how some places work, the sooner we can put this whole argument to rest.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Noahlimits

Plus, results would be skewed. IMMA MAKE 8 ALTS TO VOTE! HURR

---

global var marriageresponse = 0

When you respond to the questions:

If marriageresponse = 0
marriageresponse = 1
give item
record response

else if marriageresponse = 1
give item
don't record response
respond with "it seems that you have already voted"

Oh snap... Noahlimits was just CODED.

So... you're going to force every member to vote? How do you count those that abstain?

There's a reason why SE is on eggshells about this: They can potentially lose a large number of members one way or another over it. Your intentions will exasperate the issue by falsely empowering the playerbase to a decision that, ultimately, is in the hands not of the players, but of the developers.


For the record, I am absolutely for Marriage, regardless of gender or sexual orientation. To be frank I find it a bit backwards to put such an idea to a vote, as it insinuates that popular opinion should be able to overwhelm basic human rights, which to me is bogus regardless of what medium it is depicted in.

It's like me saying we should deny people the right to publicly practice religion because it makes me uncomfortable and it offends my sensibilities. My personal opinion shouldn't be an influence on a basic human right.

- That statement, of course, will label me a hypocrite when I inevitably take over the world and make you all do what I tell you to, but by then that won't matter. All Hail the Hyristian Nation!

Just don't create a marriage system for the game at all. If players want to get married let them use the options already in the game to do so. Then SE avoids any perceived culpability. Add the clothing, add rings if you want, open up the church then just let players figure the logistics themselves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ferth

Just don't create a marriage system for the game at all. If players want to get married let them use the options already in the game to do so. Then SE avoids any perceived culpability. Add the clothing, add rings if you want, open up the church then just let players figure the logistics themselves.

---

Exactly. Add some craftable rings wearable by anyone that bind two characters together and let the players decide how to handle their ceremonies. There is no need for a GM to preside - use Rift's system as a model. Instanced area for the wedding couple and their guests, some party favors and a scripted generic ceremony. It really doesn't have to be this huge massive big deal everyone is making out of it. As some folks have pointed out - it's a fantasy game. If I can take a potion to automagically change myself into a dude complete with original equipment - why can't I just have my own personal fantasy ceremony with who my character already is?

As this thread has immediately lost the discussion about the original point, and the later discussions are going over discussion topics that have been brought up before, I will be locking this thread. Posts within the thread will be moderated as normal when reported; however, to prevent the thread from continuing off topic in this manner, the locking of the thread allows the original point to remain while preventing further off topic or inflammatory discussions. The idea brought up in the original post is certainly an interesting one, and feel free to show your support for the idea through the use of the "Like!" button.

LGM Enkrateia