Common sense when positioning monsters

I haven't really had an issue with this until the later dungeons, namely, Cutter's Cry last boss, Stone Vigil last boss, Dzemael Darkhold, and Aurum Vale. But I've noticed tanks lately have no concern where they tank the mobs, and it's getting on my nerves.

Cutter's Cry I've seen them tank Chimera almost on top of one of the ice patches, it lands far enough away that they are not touching it, so they are not inclined to move the mob. But as a MNK/DRG I struggle to DPS as the only safe spot is just barely enough side room, or the front.... or stand in the ice patch(which obviously won't work).

Same thing with Isgebind in The Stone Vigil.

Dzemael Darkhold, most tanks will pull the mobs just far enough into the blue area that they are standing right on the edge, with the mobs outside the blue area. Same thing with the Corrupted Crystals in there as well. And again with the yellow goop in The Aurum Vale.

Where is the common sense to see that if you have a MNK/DRG they are struggling to DPS without taking damage because you are tanking the mob in a very bad spot? A little courtesy goes a long way to making the run flow even smoother.

Also, what's with tanks lately wanting to play Merry-Go-Round with the mob? It's really annoying when the tank circles around the mob like 5-6 times where there isn't even a red area to dodge.

I always to my best to position mobs/bosses for my melee dps. Sometimes it's a struggle though, particularly when you have ranged mobs in the pull zone. I love to run DD w/ my FC because I love the pulls on that first section, but those little ghosties never get further than the edge of the blue zone bt time I have to start focusing on dodging aoe's and riot-blade/flash comboing. That goes double for Aurum Vale (bleck :P) and the yellow puddles. The bosses, I can offer no defense for.

As to that issue you tacked on the tail end there, I've been focusing on my WHM for my FC raiders, and I've seen this too. I half-suspect it's a habit that "tank-watching" dps are picking up in endgame while doing Brayflox speedruns. (U know, trying to dodge aoe's in those huge pulls). Then they try it in low lv. dun. Don't get me wrong. I've seen plenty of tanks w/ high enough ilv just stand there and take it while I heal and tanks who keep their dodging really tight, but that seems to be the exception.

There might have been a surge of pseudo tanks. My term for tanks that are only leveling tank/tanking to where they can build myth for their dps classes. They probably aren't career tanks.

You answered your own questions in your Thread topic.

Common Sense

Lack of it is just more obvious on a tanking role than on a DPS role but it gimps every role :cool:

Lol. I've actually had DPS yell at me for moving the mob too much when I am just pulling it out of floor DoT's for the melee. #$*&s given: zero. I'll do what I need to do to get the thing dead, including letting my melee dps have a fair go at it. I think there's just been a recent upsurge of people that have no clue how to tank (and most of them refuse to learn) playing tank classes just for fast queue times to farm myth.

I ran CT the other night for the first (and probably last) time. There was a PAL standing on the very corner of one of the "safe" blocks in the nasty, noxious fluid, tanking something. I asked someone in my Linkshell, "Hey, why doesn't he pull back and let the DDs hit that thing, too?" Her answer: "Tanks are dumb."

Seems to sum it up pretty well. A lot of people aren't tanks because they're drawn to the role; they're tanks because they're drawn to the quick pop duty queues. They don't actually give a damn about doing the job all that well.

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Originally Posted by Laesha

I always to my best to position mobs/bosses for my melee dps. Sometimes it's a struggle though, particularly when you have ranged mobs in the pull zone. I love to run DD w/ my FC because I love the pulls on that first section, but those little ghosties never get further than the edge of the blue zone bt time I have to start focusing on dodging aoe's and riot-blade/flash comboing. That goes double for Aurum Vale (bleck :P) and the yellow puddles. The bosses, I can offer no defense for.

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Don't get me wrong, I have PLD and WAR both at 50, as well. I'm not asking people to do anything I haven't done myself. I know how annoying the spirits in Dzemael Darkhold and the yellow puddles in Aurum Vale can be for pulling. However, that doesn't justify tanking them in areas that will compromise the safety/reliability of your close-range melee. =/

They might need more education.

We read the forums; we probably have tried a few other roles at least for low levels; we know PUG/MNK and LNC/DRG have position-dependent skills.

I'm sure there are Tanks in the realms, maybe a lot of them, who don't know that. Yet.

It never hurts to assume the Tank may be ignorant, and give them a heads up - if you have the time.

for those having trouble with ranged tanking, this works for me. First, you need good communication, so it's not always viable in a DF group, but the DD's need to know to wait until you are in position. As caster and ranged mobs try to keep a set distance, to approach, but don't seem to run away, pull much further back until the ranged mob is where you want, then run up to the ranged mob and the other mobs will crowd around solving issues with keeping hate on them. There are situations where this isn't entirely viable, like in Wanderer's Palace with the three ghosts after the pudding boss, however in most situations that is what works (at least for me).

Sometimes, common sense may not seem all too common.

The OP just found out the difference between a random dummy trying to get past the queue fast switching to tank job and a real tank knowing his job.

I wholeheartedly agree with you though.. Too few tanks out there who know their job.. And those who do usually dont queue random but take a premade instead with people they know.

You all sound as if you have experience of these roles but have forgotten what it's like to be learning the ropes. As a'noob' with a tank role I've listened to the huffing and puffing during dungeon levels because I misjudged my role. Did you get your roles right first time or has it been a learning experience too? I've had one guy say if I don't know how to grab hate from a group I shouldn't have spec'd a tank. It sounds like something any of you here would say. If you want to be elitist put some kind of dumb entrance exam in your FC, take it seriously to the point of being anally retentive. Kill the joy. How about offering guidance to these people instead of talking like their actions are oh so tedious. Part of the challenge of these games is in learning how to get on with others. Sometimes you mmorpg vets need to get over yourselves and remember where you started. The FF world is full of mixed levels and abilities and most things, by the way, only become common sense with practise.

My reply does not refer to anyone offering a solution in the thread

@ Lava, I will confess that this is actually the 1st MMORPG I have tanked in, I mainly played mage jobs in FFXI. But it doesn't take much awareness to see that certain PT members are visibly trying to stay on the opposite side of the mob from you, and if that area of the mob is perilous, it's your job to make it "un-perilous" so to speak. I read my tooltips every time I learn a new ability. And learned quickly on the way to 15 that keeping the combo pattern pulled much more hate than spamming one ability non-stop. Newb or not. Some things should really just come at you like a brick, "Is this really the best way to be doing this"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVVsDIv98TA

...says it all.

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Originally Posted by Parasite

The OP just found out the difference between a random dummy trying to get past the queue fast switching to tank job and a real tank knowing his job.

I wholeheartedly agree with you though.. Too few tanks out there who know their job.. And those who do usually dont queue random but take a premade instead with people they know.

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Eh, I always queue random for daily (70 soldiery for doing one dungeon is too good to pass up). Even when I do other dungeons, it's usually with 1 or even two members of my FC, so we get at least one random. I get plenty of commendations, so either people are being REALLY generous or I'm doing a decent enough job. :3

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Originally Posted by Lava3

You all sound as if you have experience of these roles but have forgotten what it's like to be learning the ropes. As a'noob' with a tank role I've listened to the huffing and puffing during dungeon levels because I misjudged my role. Did you get your roles right first time or has it been a learning experience too? I've had one guy say if I don't know how to grab hate from a group I shouldn't have spec'd a tank. It sounds like something any of you here would say. If you want to be elitist put some kind of dumb entrance exam in your FC, take it seriously to the point of being anally retentive. Kill the joy. How about offering guidance to these people instead of talking like their actions are oh so tedious. Part of the challenge of these games is in learning how to get on with others. Sometimes you mmorpg vets need to get over yourselves and remember where you started. The FF world is full of mixed levels and abilities and most things, by the way, only become common sense with practise.

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When I talk about people obviously not knowing what they're doing, I'm talking about high levels that should know better than to leave a line or cone AOE casting mob aimed at their DPS and healer. I'm sorry, but by mid to high level you should have the basics of your class down. I can see your point if you're talking about something like Copperbell Mines. The whole point of those low level dungeons is to learn your role. When you have a tank that (for example) repeatedly leaves a Valefor with its ass end aimed at the DPS in CT though (Tail Drive one-shots most of them, so it should be pretty obvious after the first time that's something that you shouldn't do), obviously this is someone that either doesn't care to know their role or jumped in without having a clue.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

When you have a tank that (for example) repeatedly leaves a Valefor with its ass end aimed at the DPS in CT though (Tail Drive one-shots most of them, so it should be pretty obvious after the first time that's something that you shouldn't do), obviously this is someone that either doesn't care to know their role or jumped in without having a clue.

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Yeah, this is the one I wanted to post about. I mean, this is something that tanks should by all rights have been learning in AK, months before CT even came out. Instead, even now everyone points the tail into the most dangerous part every time. I eventually just gave up on teaching people (string of *really* bad tanks will do that), so now I just react to whatever the tank does and run with it.

Um.. I don't know which of the other forums you all read, but as far as Tanks who leave Valefors in awful positions in CT... I've seen experienced Tanks post, they do that on purpose sometimes, trolling.

The horror... the horror...

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

Yeah, this is the one I wanted to post about. I mean, this is something that tanks should by all rights have been learning in AK, months before CT even came out. Instead, even now everyone points the tail into the most dangerous part every time. I eventually just gave up on teaching people (string of *really* bad tanks will do that), so now I just react to whatever the tank does and run with it.

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Yep. They're the same tanks that when you ask them to tank Bone Dragon facing North, they either ignore you or say: lol chill it doesn't matter. Sure, it doesn't matter until every person in the raid capable of silencing or stunning his ginormous, practically unescapable cone AoE manages to NOT do it all at the same time.

Honestly, these days even if I'm in B alliance I end up doing the crap that A and C should be doing (Valefors, always the Valefors, the demons in the next room too). I purposely volunteer to tank Iron Giants so trolls and chuckleheads can't mess it up. Sometimes they still manage (a tank off their tower fighting me for hate, what?).

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Originally Posted by Wadoka

Um.. I don't know which of the other forums you all read, but as far as Tanks who leave Valefors in awful positions in CT... I've seen experienced Tanks post, they do that on purpose sometimes, trolling.

The horror... the horror...

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That's another thing I'll never understand. Why waste 23 other people's time with your stupidity?

Some people's kids...

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Yep. They're the same tanks that when you ask them to tank Bone Dragon facing North, they either ignore you or say: lol chill it doesn't matter. Sure, it doesn't matter until every person in the raid capable of silencing or stunning his ginormous, practically unescapable cone AoE manages to NOT do it all at the same time.

Honestly, these days even if I'm in B alliance I end up doing the crap that A and C should be doing (Valefors, always the Valefors, the demons in the next room too). I purposely volunteer to tank Iron Giants so trolls and chuckleheads can't mess it up. Sometimes they still manage (a tank off their tower fighting me for hate, what?).

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1) Wait, that's silenceable? Never knew. . .

2) King Behemoth is a whole other topic, in that I almost completely disagree with how everyone does that encounter. But, yeah, what you describe is /sigh-worthy.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

1) Wait, that's silenceable? Never knew. . .

2) King Behemoth is a whole other topic, in that I almost completely disagree with how everyone does that encounter. But, yeah, what you describe is /sigh-worthy.

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I like when people tank KB on the west so I don't have to move the first IG but ehh, the vast majority of people are stuck on north so I roll with it. It's a lot easier than arguing with them, that's for sure. *shrugs*

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I like when people tank KB on the west so I don't have to move the first IG but ehh, the vast majority of people are stuck on north so I roll with it. It's a lot easier than arguing with them, that's for sure. *shrugs*

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I'd rather KB be tanked west, and have BRDs on the two closest towers. A BRD can man a tower while losing little in the way of dps, and increasing raid dps by whatever that tank can contribute. Plus, if IG tank dies, you could just have one of the two free tanks run over and pick it up.

But people think I'm crazy for trying to take a tower on BRD. >_>

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

I'd rather KB be tanked west, and have BRDs on the two closest towers. A BRD can man a tower while losing little in the way of dps, and increasing raid dps by whatever that tank can contribute. Plus, if IG tank dies, you could just have one of the two free tanks run over and pick it up.

But people think I'm crazy for trying to take a tower on BRD. >_>

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No actually that makes sense. BRD have insanely long range. PLD dps may not be great, but damage is damage.

When IG is down I typically help kill adds for exactly that reason. Less bombs getting to towers = good. :3

I get what your saying Classical but sometimes the noob may also be to the mmo genre like I am sad as it is. It is a bit of awasted opportunity I think to have many tank quests end up being 1 on 1 battles where Flash is pointless to practice using since I already have hate. I use flash a lot but it's effectiveness is only really noticeable in a team dynamic where I'm expected to spam it. It doesn't help to be making mistakes when others are relying on you but at the same time I don't want to be googling every text and stat table. I used to for other FF games but stopped when it began to overshadow gameplay. I've actually deleted my tank and started again with a THM. I was put off continuing by the negativity. As per my original post the negativity when it comes possibly and probably will demotivate noobs to persevere. Constructive criticism is always better but not many know how to give it.

Of course, there are those players who don't care but I think it all depends on the person playing the tank. I mean if the player is new to MMO and choose to tank first, there is some chance that he doesn't understand the mechanics as well as another experienced player in MMO, even if that one did not ever tanked before. Especially if anybody did'nt tell him anything. I am leveling currently a WAR and the enimity mechanic is not clear at all from the quests: you are fighting alone or with an NPC that doesn't die (I am sure that the NPC can perform the quest alone XD). I understand what the quests are for but it is also because I already knew it. Also if this new tank is struggling to hold aggro, because he doesn't understand mechanics, I am not sure he is able to watch to other people in the party. In Aurum Vale, I had this tank who was facing the last boss towards the party (I don't remeber well but I think the healer was new also as he didn't move). We wiped. Then I just told him that it is a good habit to face the mobs away from the party, especially the healer. He did and we were doing fine. I think that he was a new player and nobody never told him anthing.

Also, most guides are focusing on stats, rotations and so forth. But it is hard (well I never saw one) to find one that talks about basic features such as positioning mobs, waiting to dps or whatever. They all assume that the player already knows the basics which is not really true. When you were learning maths, for instance, did you learn first to do addition or directly vector spaces?

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Originally Posted by Lewena

...Also, most guides are focusing on stats, rotations and so forth. But it is hard (well I never saw one) to find one that talks about basic features such as positioning mobs, waiting to dps or whatever. They all assume that the player already knows the basics which is not really true.

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This is Truth. I didn't learn about mob/enemy position on the job. I was semi-intelligent and came to the forum first. That's where I learned it was my responsibility to control which way the mob/enemy faced, and where to place them in a fight.

How many people come to th4e forums before they begin having problems? How many people accept in-game criticism? Who *gives* good in-game criticism during an instanced battle or duty?

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Originally Posted by Wadoka

Who *gives* good in-game criticism during an instanced battle or duty?

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I try to, but, then, I have to balance all of it around the fact that I'm really sarcastic by nature, so I have to tone it way down and/or add smilies. >_>

Hello. If the tank is not positioning well a boss or mob, you can tell him, he might not have noticed the problem or be new at the place.

In CT some people remind the tank in jokes not to put the Valefor's tail looking to the group, just in case the tank is new. If the tank says he is new the other tank can explain a bit too. Many CT problems are caused by lack of communication.

In low level dungeons it may well be the tank is new or he is too busy trying to survive and is concentrating in other more urgent things (from his point of view) and forgets to place the boss where he can be well attacked by melee DPS or will not throw an attack to the group.

A quick ask can make him do it right (if he manages to read the chat log before a wipe...lol)

The more exp somebody has in a place, the more aware to every aspect of the fight he will be, the better he will place the boss, knows his attacks, he can anticipate where the adds are going to spawn and place the boss in advance, etc.

When things go south problems usually accumulate. Normally it's not just the tank has placed the boss badly, he probably is in low health and the rest of the party too, he might be worried about losing hate to an add, the healer is overloaded with work, casters are moving around avoiding attacks and can't cast well, etc.

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Originally Posted by Classikal

Also, what's with tanks lately wanting to play Merry-Go-Round with the mob? It's really annoying when the tank circles around the mob like 5-6 times where there isn't even a red area to dodge.

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Maybe they think it ups their dodge rate? Was hilarious when I thought that in FFXI ;).

I find it no different than the dps who demand you go faster to the point they believe they should pull new mobs for you.

Some people just don't care about what others want and will shoot themselves in the foot because of it.

Also it can be scary when DPS dont give you time to adjust the monsters to a safe and convenient location (and then wonder why all the monsters suddenly ping pong everywhere).

Most of the time they might genuinely not know much about tanking so wouldn't hurt to give them a bit of advice.

I'm horrible at this but I try and over pull so I can get better so I'm on the brink of death and have to dodge aoes. Idc though lol. Basic stuff like pulling out of dots or whatever sure but positioning more than two enemies? Not my problem

I am sorry but this thread makes me cringe a little bit as a tank, dps, and a healer.

I always follow a general rule to face away from the group. Almost everything has a frontal attack why would you face that towards anyone especially with it's back against a wall. Some fights may call for this but they are extremely rare. So why not have the boss etc, positioned to have your healers/dps on flank or rear.

Also as tanks we can't position for every possible/potential aoe. DPS will have to get creative, and adjust accordingly. As a Dragoon I was able to find that the range of being on the flank/rear of enemies wasn't an exact science. There was all sorts of wiggle room to being able to get impulse drive or heavy thrust off. I would ask the tank to move or re-position, then yell at the tank to re-position but it wouldn't happen. So I would either steal threat intentionally or just suck it up.

As a healer when I watch the portrayed behaviors... they become a dead tank. Depending on the dungeon I will have an easier time healing two dps then a dumb tank and two dps due to bad positioning or merry go round behaviors. In Dzemael Darkhold I had a tank who wasn't tanking in the light. The dps followed me and waited for him to die then when everything came our direction we burned it down.

But lastly it isn't safe to assume that tanks know how to tank every fight. I screwed up IG's because I didn't know any better and no one cares to explain anything in CT. Sometimes a little guidance goes a long way.

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Originally Posted by Lava3

You all sound as if you have experience of these roles but have forgotten what it's like to be learning the ropes. As a'noob' with a tank role I've listened to the huffing and puffing during dungeon levels because I misjudged my role. Did you get your roles right first time or has it been a learning experience too? I've had one guy say if I don't know how to grab hate from a group I shouldn't have spec'd a tank. It sounds like something any of you here would say. If you want to be elitist put some kind of dumb entrance exam in your FC, take it seriously to the point of being anally retentive. Kill the joy. How about offering guidance to these people instead of talking like their actions are oh so tedious. Part of the challenge of these games is in learning how to get on with others. Sometimes you mmorpg vets need to get over yourselves and remember where you started. The FF world is full of mixed levels and abilities and most things, by the way, only become common sense with practise.

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There is a tank lvl 38ish that goes around I met him twice once in Qarn and once in that place where ants are (never know the name in english), we spend something like 40mn in the first boss, read that 40mn before me and BLM managed to kill that thing, why would you ask ?..the tank kept runing in circle hitting now and then the target never run to pad when affected by doom even if told, read that IN CIRCLE, meaning my dps output was seriously compromised and BLM was stealing hate from tank thus was runing like mad, we explained to him in turn what NOT TO do, even the DRG that started the dungeon with us did say it then left disgusted. You are asking people to give advice we did we sticked with him for a long long time, we said it over and over again but before the second boss and seen he was still doing the same, he was killing the heads before they were on platforms, so we stood there watching, we told him but nothing, ant one point, we had no choice but to kick him and I HATE DOING THAT. Was it a troll? maybe, although I dont know, we tried in various languages, nothing changed...you really think is always a lack of explanation? had it only attempted to change something in his waysor COMMUNICATE we would be standing behind him all the way...there was no answers, no words, on the contrary he was applauding me and BLM for doing HIS job...you really think there isnt anything to say ? Are all tank like that ? no... but whether you like it or not there are more and more like that, some dont know, and others plain dont care. we met this boss again with the ants, this time he left after the first two ants...he was runign in circles ..lol

I am a Monk, you hink I can hit runing targets ?

your anger is justified but only to a point.

Mei

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Originally Posted by MeiUshu

words were here

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That sounds... horrifying. Kudos to you for sticking with it and trying to help.

It's funny, playing a DRG made me a lot more sensitive to fiddly positioning issues. I realize now that even the slightest movement can put your melee DPS off the flank/rear and make them a lot less effective.

Well said. My main is a tank, and I love doing it. I\\'m still learning though, and always welcome criticism from others. I recently just learned that positioning is crucial for the others. I\\'ve been watching YouTube videos and reading these forums for tips and it\\'s helped so much. I started off tanking not knowing anything. I had no idea what my role was and I learned through people complaining. I\\'m no expert, but reading all these posts help.

these tanks dont play DPS classes/jobs and therefore have no idea DPSes require positioning to do damage.

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Originally Posted by Dano

these tanks dont play DPS classes/jobs and therefore have no idea DPSes require positioning to do damage.

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You're right. Not having a class means you're a lot less aware of what that class requires to perform well. In my first dungeons (first runs and re-runs of the first four) I had really no clue about the positioning of things, other than to try to keep aoes away from the other people. Mostly I played with my friend who favours THM/BLM, and I had levelled up CNJ enough to get protect and raise, so I knew about the annoyance of interrupted castings. But usually I'd just run straight through the mob during cone aoes and then tank it from there. Sometimes I used strafe+forward to rotate the mob 90 degrees instead of 180. No one ever said anything to me about it, though, so I had no idea that I should do it any other way.

I think it was in a fate that I first saw someone else tank and noticed how they moved back to their original position after aoe execution, and thought that was a nifty way to avoid forcing mages to move. It wasn't until WAY later that I found out about the importance of positioning for melee dps classes. By that time, I was already used to keeping the mob relatively static. But I could have started doing that a lot earlier if just someone/anyone had pointed it out to me at the start ^^; Sadly, it seems many people think that the proper way to give advice is to yell "wtf are you doing" or similarly informative things when you manage to screw something up.

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Originally Posted by Coth_X

There might have been a surge of pseudo tanks. My term for tanks that are only leveling tank/tanking to where they can build myth for their dps classes. They probably aren't career tanks.

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Jeah, i see a lot of them lately which don´t know their class... not limited to tanks... and not lately ^^

And this is why I firmly believe you should play at least dungeon level will one of each major class. Melee, ranged, healer, and tank.
Having started off as a DRG I always found it annoying when the mobs where moved all over the place. But after playing WAR ( which is now main) I realize that if a tank is new I should be a little bit more patient. Once your at brayflox tho all bets are off.

If you are new to a dungeon, a role, or to the MMO genre in general, don't be afraid to let people know. Sure you'll get jerks that drop out and stuff like that, but better to get that out of the way upfront instead of waiting until you do something they consider wrong and have them flip out even more and then drop. Simply jerks will be jerks no matter what, but assuming that everyone is a jerk and won't be patient or helpful is not the way to go. There are many players out there that will be patient and helpful, as long as you don't get all defensive or refuse to listen.

Don't expect to be super elite and the best tank, or whatever role, right off the bat, because guess what your not going to be. You'll need to learn and become comfortable with all the mechanics and nuances of your role and job, and the only way your going to do that is through playing it and *shudder* making mistakes.
On the other hand, people should realize that some people may be new or not familiar with things in the game and that a simple politely phrased suggestion will often yield better results and save more time than raging like a baby that needs its diaper changed.

As far as mobs and positioning, you pretty much always want to face the mobs away from the rest of the party. This if for two reasons, first most mobs that have AoE attacks have forward facing cones, so that way their attacks will be pointed away from the rest of the group and they will not have to stop what they are doing and move out of the way, second because the melee dps do more damage when attacking an enemy from behind and the sides.
The easiest way to do this that works with most trash pulls is to run towards the group and shield lob. They will agro and move towards you. Run through them and then immediately turn around so that you are now facing them and the rest of your party. The pack of enemies should now be between you and the rest of your party with them all facing towards you and with their backs to the rest of the party. If you can, try using flash while your are running through them to help get initial group agro.
If there are ranged enemies in the group run to them when you run through the others and the melee enemies will follow you. If the ranged enemies are near other enemies that you don't want to agro, then run back until the ranged enemies begin to follow and then once they are in a safe spot to engage, turn and charge them. The best way to get ranged enemies to follow you is to break line of sight by hiding behind something or turning a corner, this is especially useful with all the ranged enemies in Darkhold.

Don't run around doing circles around enemies or other such nonsense, it doesn't make the enemies miss you any more and all it does is make it harder for the dps to do their job. Every move that a tank makes should have a good reason behind it (positioning enemies or avoiding an AoE) and for the most part you want to stay in one spot as best as possible. You can also dodge AoE's without turning or moving a mob fairly easily. As soon as the telegraphed floor marker appears move out of it and as soon as it disappears move back, even if it appears that the attack has not gone off yet. Once the telegraph marker is gone, who the attack is going to hit has already been registered by the server. This way you are able to move back into position while the enemy is doing the attack animation and they end up not moving or turning.

The more familiar you become with different enemies and the different dungeons, the more familiar you'll become with how to position them and where to do so.

As someone who was new to MMOs and tanking - There's a lot of great advice in this ^ comment.

I have to say sometimes though as a dps you are on your own stone vigil is one of those type of places because that breath weapons and even the trash aoes positioning is really the least thing the tank needs to worry about besides getting out of the way themselves (which the dragon breaths having a cast bar I think is a bit of a joke as there is no way specifically you can avoid taking the damage if your the target). While it is sometimes frustrating when I dps as well sometimes, you just have to trust the tank knows something just like they have to trust the healer to make sure they don't flatline. But for new tanks vigil is the first real taste of stay out of the fire because the level cap makes sure you won't survive multiple aoes with the auto attacks right after.