Rush killed the cat!

Haukke Manor!

Gone there as marauder 27, it means, duty just unlocked and my gear, well, not optimal.

Got party with two 50s and one 32.

Everything going smooth, mobs killed fast, first boss flawlessy downed, keeping aggro on packs. I just were doing all chambers in order to hope chests give me the accessories to replace the abysmal level 8 still on (omg!)

On the road to second boss, one 50 (dps) says "can we rush up? my FC needs me", and provided to aggro himself the next pack, making me near to impossible retake aggro, all mobs scattered the way making totally ineffective the area aggro and me that trying to gain (not regain: gain!) aggro, running left and right, and at the end, wipe on trash mobs.

I just learned one lesson: if someone asks to rush, the only answer to give is a rude "NO!". I just hope that people who want rush, will learn to go play early instead make this kind of things :)

P.S. anyway, got accessories. The duty had pity on me heh!

Easy: you're tank and a dps wants to rush and doesn't watch aggro/pull mobs making you wipe on trash mobs? Let him die :3 *evil smile*

I just had pity of the poor healer and the other dps, who tried to get rid of situation, so tried me too. To let a fool dps die, it needs none of the other party members touching mobs or healing.

But Geddy Lee is a national treasure, he'd never kill a cat! D:

Ppl think that pulling lots of mobs and then wiping is better than going slow for some reason

So you have one bad example and you ll sell no to everyone forever from now on because of that?

(I understand you'r still learning, but at any and all lvls of the game the tank outputs more aggro generation no matter who the dps is, if played right)
If someone asks me to rush when I'm tanking and the rest of the party doesn't mind and I don't mind it, then I'd say okay and lead the way.

Even in your example you could of just told them: "Sure, but let me do the pulls from now on" or something like that.

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Originally Posted by Snowaeth

Even in your example you could of just told them: "Sure, but let me do the pulls from now on" or something like that.

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It seems you didn't get an archer/brd claiming everything before you're in range to even use provoke (more range than shield lob/tomahawk) xD

Even if is not the case, as a marauder 27, if dps were lvl 50, they can do more damage than enmity generated by the tank. Yes, there is leve-sync, BUT a level-synced lvl 50 characters who knows his skills can steal agro from tank if he goes ape-sh*t. When i did low-leves for Atma Books with my monk i joined parties with some good tanks (not 50) and sometimes i had to stop my dps to not steal the mobs (and yes, i was waiting for the tank to claim/get hate and attacking the mobs marked by him)

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Originally Posted by Merle

Easy: you're tank and a dps wants to rush and doesn't watch aggro/pull mobs making you wipe on trash mobs? Let him die :3 *evil smile*

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I'd usually rush in and heal and stoneskin the rushing dps if he is only rushing 1 mob at a time. It's my duty as a healer to make sure ppl are alive lol no matter whattttttt.
Also most synced 50s can tank 1 mob at a time in dungeons soo no surprise there.
But it usually falls on the healer if it's tank vs dps. Because they both know without heals both sides will die.
So as a healer you can either make it go fast with the dps or take it slow with the tank.
But yes it does suck for new tanks / non synced tanks to be forced to rush dungeons by synced dps and/ or healer.

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Originally Posted by Merle

It seems you didn't get an archer/brd claiming everything before you're in range to even use provoke (more range than shield lob/tomahawk) xD

Even if is not the case, as a marauder 27, if dps were lvl 50, they can do more damage than enmity generated by the tank. Yes, there is leve-sync, BUT a level-synced lvl 50 characters who knows his skills can steal agro from tank if he goes ape-sh*t. When i did low-leves for Atma Books with my monk i joined parties with some good tanks (not 50) and sometimes i had to stop my dps to not steal the mobs (and yes, i was waiting for the tank to claim/get hate and attacking the mobs marked by him)

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If you know which skill does what and how to use them, no matter which dungeon Tank aggro > dps aggro.
(Back in 2.0 gear mattered quite a bit in here too, but since 2.1 getting threat on tank is trivial even when you'r way under-geared compared to the dps)
I do understand that a learning tank still wouldn't know how to pull this off properly, but for low lvls, when in doubt spam flash/overpower = gg.

Dps have no increased aoe emity skills at any lvl, tanks do. At best with burning all of his cooldowns the dps could get heavy threat on 1 mob which could be reclaimed with proper provoke timing or comboing if you don't have provoke yet (easy way to stop dps from taking dmg for a while during the reclaim period is to stun the mob).
There's nothing wrong with using flash/overpower more than once. And properly spreading the aggro combo between mobs will make the dps never able to keep up threat.

Also positioning makes things easy.
If the archer is aggroing the mobs there's only 2 ways the mobs will go, either to him or to the healer that will heal him. Guess where you have to be to get aggro back?

Didn't want make of a case the rule :)
Just, ask to rush in a run that were going smooth and fine, to me means as "please don't go the chest chambers", that's all. I don't want keep into a duty no more than it is needed too.

It is not bad ask for that, the only fact I wanted point out, is that some people wanting to rush, have then the urge to do big mistakes as pulling mobs in place of tank. Doing that, even if tank is exp, things are messed a bit anyway.

Then, it is very likely the best of the tank cannot do much, if everyone panicks, dps'ing mobs at random, and healer healing cure2 full time trying to keep all this mess of group alive :)

Edit: saw you reasoning after post. Yes, your reasoning have sense, but the context I made clear in OP, is about an undergeraed tank dealing with synced 50s. This is a completely different setup than an endgame duty with everyone on comparable levels.

THis is not a Last Remnant Post aw, I was like rush Never touched a cat

I dunno, I mean, if you are new, you probably don't have a job crystal yet when you do haukke for the first time. (At level 30, you can do a quest to get one, it increases your stats by 10% and teaches you a new ability) Having that gives you 10% more health and threat obviously but, I've run haukke on paladin and warrior while leveling up. It's not terribly hard to keep threat over level50 level synced players. The OP did say they didn't have trouble till then after all.

But I totally agree with OP. If a dps charges the a room of mobs and starts to AOE before you even get there, it's not going to be really possible to get more than one back, especially at that level. A paladin might provoke one, hit it and then run around and stun everything, that's about all you can do. Warrior can only stun once so, beyond that... yea... it's a toughie

If this ever happens again and you wanna go all nutty, here's one option: Yell at the healer and remaining dps to follow you. Allow the offending dps to die. Tell the other two to stay far ahead of you, and then just kite the mobs, while they chase the healer, run after them and tomahawk. Stun when it's off cooldown to give the healer a bigger lead. If you can, do your threat combo. etc. Haukke is one of the few good places to kite mobs. While leveling the all my jobs, I've done quite a few haukke's and a bunch have gone badly because people are impatient or want to troll. :p Kiting in that place can be fun when that happens, but the healer needs to run away and either regen the tank or do whatever they can while running(scholar might be tougher but, you can command your pet to die for a few clutch heals on tank if you have to and then resummon). Eventually the tank will get threat on everything while running, and the remaining dps can kill them like normal.

Dunno, I'm used to people messing up dungeon runs on purpose, so I try to have fun with it if it happens. :P

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

Ppl think that pulling lots of mobs and then wiping is better than going slow for some reason

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lol, this. Going nice and slow takes less time than rushing and wiping.

What kind of advise is that?
Only get 1 mob back?

Look at mob AI. They always go for the target that has the highest threat on them.
If the dps pulled a pack, the whole pack is going for him. If the healer healed the dps, 1 will stay on dps the rest will go for the healer. <--- This here is the only thing you have to see. Did the healer heal dps yet or not?
If the healer healed the dps you go to the healer, if the healer didn't you go to the dps.
Once there you and all the mobs will be in the same area (except 1 if the healer did heal), then you throw flash/flash/flash or Overpower/Overpower/Overpower, after this you provoke the other mob and shield/axe throw it right after provoke.
Congratulations you have gained all the aggro and with more flash/overpower you can keep it on all of them, or if no aoe dmg is going out, combo away on the mob which the dps was attacking.

Ho well, have first tried to get back mobs from the fool, then mobs moved to healer and other dps, then have used all my TP on overpower multiple times (10 times?) to remove aggro on healer (that was casting cure2 as crazy, as long mobs were hitting hard and people frequently <50% hp), but mobs were still orange. I guess it was just a called wipe and I cannot help it.

And yes, as Cherie pointed up, I am still on my base class (level 27, as I said).

It was a mess. Really.

Edit: anyway, after that wipe nothing bad happened, and we done all the duty ok.
Edit2: forgot to tell, the scattered pack was about 6/7 mobs, not 2 or 3

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Originally Posted by Snowaeth

What kind of advise is that?
Only get 1 mob back?

Look at mob AI. They always go for the target that has the highest threat on them.
If the dps pulled a pack, the whole pack is going for him. If the healer healed the dps, 1 will stay on dps the rest will go for the healer. <--- This here is the only thing you have to see. Did the healer heal dps yet or not?
If the healer healed the dps you go to the healer, if the healer didn't you go to the dps.
Once there you and all the mobs will be in the same area (except 1 if the healer did heal), then you throw flash/flash/flash or Overpower/Overpower/Overpower, after this you provoke the other mob and shield/axe throw it right after provoke.
Congratulations you have gained all the aggro and with more flash/overpower you can keep it on all of them, or if no aoe dmg is going out, combo away on the mob which the dps was attacking.

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Pretty sure they are talking about the room with all the ranged fire mobs but, that's not a bad idea either if they bring the mobs out of the room. (IE to bunch them up at the door as they turn to fire etc).
But, I guess what I was after is just, is the healer really going to be able to collate the mobs with very little instructions? If I'm tanking and something goes badly in a dungeon, best I can do is usually type for the healer to run and let me kite to get threat after the impatient dps dies....dunno

Lol Geddy Lee. I could see Neil killing a cat though

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Originally Posted by LalaRu

"can we rush up? my FC needs me"

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Little OT, My apologies.

Doing low level "My FC needs me" = This is going to slow, they are killing everything I want this done now.
Doing Brayflox Myth SR after two runs "FC calls take care" = I've got my new book for zodiac see ya.
Titan HM/Ex first wipe "gtg FC needs help" = I don't believe the party can do this, and I'm not wasting my time.
Sitting in PF for 10 minutes for any run "FC stuff bye" = Person sees another opening in a PF that they have a interest, likely for the same exact event you are doing.

I'm sure this isn't true for all cases, but ya..
The most legit reason I think I've seen to leave a group is probably for Behemoth or odin, the rest well.

rushing in locked level sync in just stupid

you can rush all day in lv50 duties