BARD resource?

Anyone know of a resource like "monk temple" or something that I can link to new bards without having to sit down and explain shit to them for hours on end? :P

EDIT: I was looking through the pages I can't find anything...

I am also interested in this.

A little outdated but this thread has some very good information.
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/117758-Bard-Detail

There's not that much to explain though, here's a brief brain dump:

#1: All stat adjustments go into DEX.

#2: Cross Class Skills
Important ones
- Internal Release
- Blood for Blood
- Invigorate
Not so important/useful
- Second Wind
- Featherfoot
- Mantra
- Etc.


#3: Combat
- Keep Straight shot bonus up
- Keep your DoT's up
- Ride your offensive cooldowns when you can
- Use mobility to your advantage, stay as far away as you can and on the move if you need to
- Use songs (and Voice to boost) when appropriate.
- Use Requiem to boost magic damage for BLM/SMN/WHM etc.
- Use Ballad for MP (duh!)
- March is an interesting one because we can't see the TP of other party members, it's rarely needed though.
- Quick Knock is your most effective AOE to SPAM at lvl 50. RoD and Wide Volley have the same damage for higher TP use, and the free CD's don't kick in enough to make them worthwhile
- Use off GCD skills when you can to boost damage (i.e. Repelling Shot and Blunt Arrow (if you're not in a silence rotation)), try not to do stupid but hilarious things like Repelling shot yourself into the wall in T5, or off a cliff while you're in combat.

This is the only macro I use on Bard. This is basically your main attack button.
/micon "Bloodletter"
/ac "Heavy Shot"
/ac "Misery's End"
/ac "Bloodletter"


When you get the straight shot procs, make sure you burn them to get the certain crit. Apart from that there aren't any combos that you need to pay attention to.

If there are more specific questions then feel free to ask away. If I don't get to them then I'm sure someone else will! =)

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Originally Posted by blowfin

A little outdated but this thread has some very good information.
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/117758-Bard-Detail

This is the only macro I use on Bard. This is basically your main attack button.
/micon "Bloodletter"
/ac "Misery's End"
/ac "Bloodletter"
/ac "Heavy Shot"

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Don't use this macro, at least not religiously. I've come to learn that some bards restrict their blood letter procs, or not knowing when it actually procs due to the use of this macro. Of course there are others who are aware of it when it's actually up etc.,
My point is, have a manual key slot for both ME and BL. Use them asap. Weave these skills accordingly when you want and not blindly spam a macro that "gets all procs".

tl;dr go stick shift

If you're going to use that macro, Heavy Shot goes first.

I've seen bard players who macro everything and ones who macro nothing. DPS wise I don't know which approach is better.

Since Straight Shot, Windbite, and Venomous Bite all have slightly overlapping durations, is there any kind of rotation for bard that optimizes their uptime without clipping or letting them drop?

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Originally Posted by SeraviEdalborez

If you're going to use that macro, Heavy Shot goes first.

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Agree 100%. ME & BL are off the GCD skills, so should be used between GCD's to maximize dps. Placing HS lowest in priority would cause non-GCD skills to be used first, delaying your GCD usage => reducing dps

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Originally Posted by Illya

Since Straight Shot, Windbite, and Venomous Bite all have slightly overlapping durations, is there any kind of rotation for bard that optimizes their uptime without clipping or letting them drop?

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Nope. Just make sure you have SS up when you apply them. Getting Straighter Shot procs from HS usage makes the overlap issue moot , as you'll be resetting the SS buff when you can. Use WB prior to VB in your rotation; for any situation that warrants putting both dots up, WB first is the better choice.

Clipping is not the devil. Under 3 seconds left, re-use the DoT.

Macro'd GCD actions are strictly worse than unmacro'd by fractions of a second which add up over time. That said it's a much larger DPS loss to not be using BL/ME when they are up. For players with low reaction time, the 3-in-1 spambutton (or a 2-in-1 spambutton for just BL+ME to use between GCDs) is perfectly serviceable. Our BRDs' DPS holds up very well according to my abacus and they use the 3-in-1.

Clipping is the devil, you are literally cutting the potency off of your Dot. You are also losing opportunity cost that you could be casting another damaging ability.

It would be better to let them drop off completely and reapply, than to clip.

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Originally Posted by Illya

Since Straight Shot, Windbite, and Venomous Bite all have slightly overlapping durations, is there any kind of rotation for bard that optimizes their uptime without clipping or letting them drop?

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I'd say BRD attacks follow more of a priority system than an actual rotation. I'm sure there's an exact specific opening rotation to maximize DPS, but past the first 10 GCDs or so, a static rotation goes out the window.

The main things to remember when applying the dots is that you want to apply them with as much crit as possible for the River of Blood procs. So you'll always want to have the straight shot buff up when casting dots, and you'll also want to pop Internal Release before applying them whenever it is available.

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Originally Posted by MythToken

Clipping is the devil, you are literally cutting the potency off of your Dot. You are also losing opportunity cost that you could be casting another damaging ability.

It would be better to let them drop off completely and reapply, than to clip.

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As Seravi said, it's not. If it's below 3 seconds, you're golden since DoTs tick on a 3 second "timer." Chances are your full potency has already gotten off and you're refreshing for the new potency

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Originally Posted by Argentt

I'd say BRD attacks follow more of a priority system than an actual rotation. I'm sure there's an exact specific opening rotation to maximize DPS, but past the first 10 GCDs or so, a static rotation goes out the window.

The main things to remember when applying the dots is that you want to apply them with as much crit as possible for the River of Blood procs. So you'll always want to have the straight shot buff up when casting dots, and you'll also want to pop Internal Release before applying them whenever it is available.

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What about RS and BfB? Just keep then on CD and burn them when up if you're not saving then to burst an add down? Do people prefer to stack RS and BfB on top of each other or use them separately?

Stacking them is great damage when you can do it, and if you can keep them on cooldown they line up together every other cast of raging strikes. In practice it's all dependent on the fight as you may have to hold back for burn phases or to watch out for the BfB debuff when there's unavoidable damage coming up.

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Originally Posted by NintenPyjak64

As Seravi said, it's not. If it's below 3 seconds, you're golden since DoTs tick on a 3 second "timer." Chances are your full potency has already gotten off and you're refreshing for the new potency

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This is useful info, did not know that.

Even if you lose potency from clipping too early, it would not be a complete waste. The damage from VB and WB well exceeds that of Heavy Shot at 2/3 ticks. Less TP-efficient, sure, but compared to the baseline of Heavy Shot spam only it's still an "increase".

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If you're going to use that macro, Heavy Shot goes first.

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Yeah my bad, I just copy pasta'd it. Heavy shot should be first.

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Don't use this macro, at least not religiously.

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It's been tested and shown that the difference between a macro and doing it manually is pretty much non-existent.

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I've come to learn that some bards restrict their blood letter procs, or not knowing when it actually procs due to the use of this macro. Of course there are others who are aware of it when it's actually up etc.,

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This is why you use the /micon "Bloodletter". So your Bloodletter CD isn't off in some other section of the screen. Losing DPS isn't an issue if you pay attention and hit your BL procs between GCD's.

The only macro'ed skill I have is BL on Heavy Shot which goes:

/ac "Heavy Shot" <t>
/ac "Bloodletter" <t>

So that I can just keep spamming that macro and BL will always just fire off when available. Of course I have the BL button by itself on hotbar to monitor if proc'ed and/or manually weave it in between refreshing the 2 DoTs if it's available.

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Originally Posted by HaelseMikiro

But if you want to get picky, since VB front loads 100 potency, you could use it first on any enemy that you'd expect to die in <12 seconds, and WB first on one that you'd expect to live > 12 seconds. As both skills would have done exactly 240 potency worth of damage at 4 ticks (12 sec)

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I disagree. I did the math on it several months back, and it actually breaks down even more than that.

I need to add something about multi-target like T4, Liviathan, T7, etc : put your dots on EVERYTHING you can. Common sense, but a lot of BRD seems to ignore the fact that Windbite is 330 potency and VB is 290, without spending too much TP.

Even for the T4, I find this more efficient (for the group) to dot all the spiders than spamming WV and use Paeon.

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Originally Posted by Alcyon1

I need to add something about multi-target like T4, Liviathan, T7, etc : put your dots on EVERYTHING you can.

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And to touch briefly on Leviathan, the period between his head popping up for the first slam and the tail popping up for the first time is a period in which you can still attack the head without it reflecting. You have just enough time for two GCD and two oGCD (not counting the Flaming Arrow you should be dropping).

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Originally Posted by blowfin

Yeah my bad, I just copy pasta'd it. Heavy shot should be first.



It's been tested and shown that the difference between a macro and doing it manually is pretty much non-existent.



This is why you use the /micon "Bloodletter". So your Bloodletter CD isn't off in some other section of the screen. Losing DPS isn't an issue if you pay attention and hit your BL procs between GCD's.

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I'am sorry to say you are missleading people with your statements. When you macro any skill it is clearly a huge and indeed noticeable dps loss.
What happens when you in fact decide to macro your main skills with your off GCD skills such as "Heavy Shot" with "Bloodletter" and obviously Windbite, venomous and straight shot aswell is that you take away the ability to que your next skill. With the delay the game already has unless you live in JP and play on a JP server, by losing the queuing of a skill which actually happens when you click the next GCD skill you want to do while it is on cooldown. Because of this, you will always have a significant delay compared to someone that can master it without any macros what so ever.
So for all you min-maxers, never during any circumstances do you use a macro for any skill on bard if you are looking for maxing it out, and this is not 1-2 dps we are talking about, more in the 10's to 20's or even more for that matter.

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Originally Posted by Zleepyy

So for all you min-maxers, never during any circumstances do you use a macro for any skill on bard if you are looking for maxing it out, and this is not 1-2 dps we are talking about, more in the 10's to 20's or even more for that matter.

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Macroing BL to Heavy Shot is fine to me. I've tried parsing myself having them macro'd and not macro'd, it falls within the same range. No 10-20 DPS differences.

I don't know about others but I barely have time during SCoB to be looking out for Bloodletter procs. I'm more focused on the fight and doing the mechanics.

If I didn't have the Heavy Shot macro, I would be losing out on more DPS from forgetting to use it than just using the macro and taking the non-queuing hit.

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Originally Posted by Zleepyy

I'am sorry to say you are missleading people with your statements. When you macro any skill it is clearly a huge and indeed noticeable dps loss.

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It is a larger DPS loss to be doing nothing at all (GCD or BL or ME, anything). Most players in this game frankly do not have the muscle memory or confidence starting out to continue mashing BL/ME and ride their GCD while dodging or dealing with mechanics. Tying it to one button (and only one button, so GCD queue is not impaired by anything else) limit the downsides. As I've said, our BRDs use a 3-in-1 and do absolutely fine. Just need to understand that you spam the button intelligently. If GCD is about to come up in .5 seconds, don't spam it quite as hard so BL isn't clipping into the GCD time. It's pretty foolproof.

People like to act like they have the dexterity (puns) to play full manual BRD, but most don't.

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So for all you min-maxers, never during any circumstances do you use a macro for any skill on bard if you are looking for maxing it out, and this is not 1-2 dps we are talking about, more in the 10's to 20's or even more for that matter.

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Nah, like I said, it's been tested and proven to be very little difference, if any. Not just some guy saying "hey my DPS feels the same", but actually parsed over a period of time with real numbers. The testing is in the PvP thread on BG I believe, i'm not about to go and dig it out for something I know I'm correct about though.

Like other people have said, it's more about not being stupid with your CD's and clipping skills. If you can't do that properly with a macro, chances are you're not going to do it properly manually.

The diference is huge. If you are not able to keep track of bl then fine for you but that doesn't mean that you are not gimping your dps output.

So you and every single BRD you play with is an absolute perfect robot who never forgets to ride their GCD, never misses a new BL reset proc, and does this while dealing with mechanics? 100% of the time?

We freely admit this is less (less than you seem to think it is) DPS than full manual. If you play full manual perfectly. Not many do.

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Originally Posted by Zleepyy

this is not 1-2 dps we are talking about, more in the 10's to 20's or even more for that matter.

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Citation needed.

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The diference is huge.

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No it's not, it's been tested. With science. Like I said, the results of the testing are buried in BG somewhere, either in the PvP or the Bard Detail thread. I'm not about to go and waste half an hour of my time tracking the post(s) down for you though.

Ok have fun having mediocre dps. The science you speak about is some random post from last year with low gear and made by someone that din't really give any good info.
The diference is even bigger in the new coil because either you have huge up times like t8, or you have small up times like t9 and you have to do all the damage you can before the boss jumps.

Besides you are trying to tell people with real high end experience that know what they are doing how to play their job when you haven't even finished t6.

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Originally Posted by Rose-Wild

Ok have fun having mediocre dps. The science you speak about is some random post from last year with low gear and made by someone that din't really give any good info.
The diference is even bigger in the new coil because either you have huge up times like t8, or you have small up times like t9 and you have to do all the damage you can before the boss jumps.

Besides you are trying to tell people with real high end experience that know what they are doing how to play their job when you haven't even finished t6.

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Mind telling me how much DPS you do on turn 8 if you're doing it manual? I got 319 DPS at ilvl 96 with a Tidal Wave Bow and popping 2-3 mega-potions.

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Originally Posted by Rose-Wild

Ok have fun having mediocre dps. The science you speak about is some random post from last year with low gear and made by someone that din't really give any good info.
The diference is even bigger in the new coil because either you have huge up times like t8, or you have small up times like t9 and you have to do all the damage you can before the boss jumps.

Besides you are trying to tell people with real high end experience that know what they are doing how to play their job when you haven't even finished t6.

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I use the macro. I pull 340-350 in t8 @i96 brd depending on paeon requirements. In fact, I've never been out-parsed by another bard AND I use legacy controls. I don't consider this mediocre by any stretch so I don't really know how to respond to your comment!

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Originally Posted by ShiningMeow

Mind telling me how much DPS you do on turn 8 if you're doing it manual? I got 319 DPS at ilvl 96 with a Tidal Wave Bow and popping 2-3 mega-potions.

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Ermm i don't have the details atm, if you wait a bit maybe i can ask what was it this week on t8. I think it was 360+ but i don't really know.... That's popping one TP song and 1 Ballad. My item lv was 98 with the Rosenbogen. My gear is kinda bad, i have terrible luck with high allagan gear.... i only got 1 ring ><

What i can tell you is that in the first half of the fight on t9 i get an average of 320+ That would be phase 1 and 2.


@ Coconut
If you pull that with the macro then why not try and make it even better without it? As dps you should try to do what is better for your damage.
You can try to play Monk with macros but that doesn't mean you are doing the best you could be doing.

Don't get me wrong, i used the macro for a long time, but there's no point in denying that without it you could do more damage.

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Originally Posted by Rose-Wild

Ermm i don't have the details atm, if you wait a bit maybe i can ask what was it this week on t8. I think it was 360+ but i don't really know.... That's popping one TP song and 1 Ballad. My item lv was 98 with the Rosenbogen. My gear is kinda bad, i have terrible luck with high allagan gear.... i only got 1 ring ><

What i can tell you is that in the first half of the fight on t9 i get an average of 320+ That would be phase 1 and 2.


@ Coconut
If you pull that with the macro then why not try and make it even better without it? As dps you should try to do what is better for your damage.
You can try to play Monk with macros but that doesn't mean you are doing the best you could be doing.

Don't get me wrong, i used the macro for a long time, but there's no point in denying that without it you could do more damage.

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TBH I parsed myself with my BL macro'ed to my Heavy shot and without the marco, no diff in DPS.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

TBH I parsed myself with my BL macro'ed to my Heavy shot and without the marco, no diff in DPS.

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You must be doing it wrong, it's impossible to not find any diference because your attacks will come out first. Using the macro is like having a longer global cooldown.

straight shot, bloodletter, windbite, flaming arrow, venom, repelling shot, heavy shot, blunt arrow, heavy shot ( repeat heavy shot ) <---how I'd open up a boss fight, gets all your non-gcds on cooldown, all dots activated too.

then: refresh dots, keep bloodletter, miseries end, shraighter shot procs, buffs, blunt arrow, flaming arrow, and repelling shot all on cooldown. ( unless needed for task, such as silencing )

never cancel a gcd for a non gcd, far better to cast bloodletter/miserys end after that next straight/heavy shot/venom/windbite, than cancelling a skill ( wasting time/dps )

Probably best to cast quelling strikes along with barrage, especially with a tank you don't know.

Biggest flaw I see bards make is to not sing when they should, don't be one of those ><. If grouped with a monk/drg, don't forget paeon in AOE situations. If grouped with a blm/sum, don't forget foe. Be mindful of healers MP, don't make them ask you for ballad. Don't forget battle voice either, for the more intense moments.

While blood for blood is a great dps boost and should be gotten by every bard, invigorate is absolutely essential. Imo, bards should just come with this skill....

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Originally Posted by Rose-Wild

You must be doing it wrong, it's impossible to not find any diference because your attacks will come out first. Using the macro is like having a longer global cooldown.

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So you must be always right? Seriously I have been using manual all the while until recently I tagged BL to Heavy Shot for convenience and nope, there isn't a difference.

There might be a difference if you are tagging more than that, such as Heavy Shot-BL-Straighter Shot together but if it is just Heavy Shot (GCD) and BL (OGCD) together, it won't make a difference because whichever is available first will fire off first, such as BL will fire off first if Heavy Shot is still on CD.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

So you must be always right? Seriously I have been using manual all the while until recently I tagged BL to Heavy Shot for convenience and nope, there isn't a difference.

There might be a difference if you are tagging more than that, such as Heavy Shot-BL-Straighter Shot together but if it is just Heavy Shot (GCD) and BL (OGCD) together, it won't make a difference because whichever is available first will fire off first, such as BL will fire off first if Heavy Shot is still on CD.

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You clearly know nothing about the GCD que system. You can't que attacks that are inside a macro. So every heavy shot, you are attacking late and hurting your uptime/dps.

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Originally Posted by Rose-Wild

Don't get me wrong, i used the macro for a long time, but there's no point in denying that without it you could do more damage.

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Could. Operative word.

If you're perfect, you could do more damage. Maybe you're the one BRD in 10 thousand who can play full manual and not "lose" DPS from missing a GCD, missing a BL, or whatever.

i106 BRD with Rosen, doing 2-3 rounds of Foes and 1 full duration BV Ballad doing 375 DPS in T8. He uses 3-in-1. I suppose he sucks.

Maybe you should try this the other way around; you're using the 3-in-1 wrong if it's giving you that much of a DPS loss.

Edit: Also without Selene.

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Originally Posted by Rose-Wild

@ Coconut
If you pull that with the macro then why not try and make it even better without it? As dps you should try to do what is better for your damage.
You can try to play Monk with macros but that doesn't mean you are doing the best you could be doing.

Don't get me wrong, i used the macro for a long time, but there's no point in denying that without it you could do more damage.

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I parsed myself before I even started using the macro ages ago, I didn't want to switch to something that would turn my output into garbage. There was no discernable difference in dps, with a lot less effort on my part. If people want to be stupid about it and use off gcd whilst gcd isn't ticking down then yes, probably you would see a difference. I'm not stupid though, so there is little to no difference.