Style of primal fights

Please, for the love of Eorzea can we have a different style of Primal fight? I enjoy the dungeons (even if they get repetitive). I dabble in treasure hunting, beastman quests, crafting and gathering.

I have beaten Coil 1-5 and all the Extremes except Leviathan which I'm currently learning. Frankly, I hate it.

What I'm really missing is a fight where it's not about movement. I'm predominantly a healer (i94 SCH, i90 WHM, i87 SMN and i84 WAR). I understand that it's an important mechanic but it seems all of the Primal fights are about positioning and movement only. It completely penalises casters and is exhausting for healers. The fights are not about how well you can heal or MP management. They're about running around.

Make us hit switches, switch tanks, switch DPS type or something but let us stand still for a change. It's incredibly rough on people who have lag.

I abhor this style of fight, it feels lazy.

Actually Levi doesn't penalize casters at all because NO ONE can hit Levi during the dodging phases. Tail and head each can only take one form of damage. Tanks don't have to swap like many of the other endgame Trials but they do have add management and a stun component. The healers get a debuff they need to work together to overcome. YOu have to hit a switch twice. It's not nearly as punishing on higher latency players as Titan. Based on what you're saying Levi is the perfect Primal. Also...Moggle Mog EX. Has tank swaps. DPS need to be sure to manage damage so as to maximize the damage to Moggle when he heals the minions. Healers need to be mindful to remove debuffs. All the AoEs are forgiving so the dodging mechanics are actually quite minimal and not at all detrimental to the casters. Especially if your DPS are interrupting the bigger booms like Holy and Flare.

I understand what you're saying but just because the fight is crappy to everyone doesn't mean it's a good thing. It's better but I would simply love fights which aren't based on continually having to dodge crap.

Then play a different game, because that is a staple component of Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn. 3.0 will in fact turn this game into dodgeball. Please look forward to it.

This game is all about knowing how to DPS, heal, tank, and play with others. The dodge mechanics are tests to see if you can keep this up while dealing with dodging and other mechanics. I feel each primal fight is very different but okay. And if you want to change things up change your party composition. The game is all about knowing your job, and knowing it well enough to be able to multitask. I'll never see why people complain that they can't just play their jobs. It's not JUST a dodgefest.

If someone were about to punch you, would you just stand there and take it?

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Originally Posted by A_Magical_Unicorn_Rider

If someone were about to punch you, would you just stand there and take it?

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Yes...

/ac "Manawall"
/wait 1
/ac "Manaward"
/s Ya missed me B*tch!!!!

I like the dodging personally. It's what makes these fights, especially Titan. If you want a Zerg no dodge fight try t4 and t5. T7 is more aiming vs dodging.

There is a good balance of content available. You have to be able/willing to do it all

Titan fight IMO is perfect. All the chaos. I hope Ramuh has a ridiculous attack on the lines of he throws a bolt on someone and it causes a chain reaction and does 1.5 damage per tick for 10 ticks.

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Originally Posted by Eldelphia

I abhor this style of fight, it feels lazy.

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I find this sentence ironic.

The dodging that is a staple of gameplay is very much focused on seeing how you can handle performing your job whilst being occupied with the mechanics of the fight. It demands a higher level of concentration and ability to perform your job to the utmost level of quality, all whilst dodging attacks that could potentially wipe the party. What would be lazy is adding fights where people can stand still and just kill things. Such a battle would then just be about how well you can heal the damage a tank is receiving; that isn't lazy? By adding numerous mechanical checks to assess your continued concentration, the fight is tailored to those who like a hands on, focused battle.

Turn 7 is a perfect example. The fight itself is not difficult nor are any of the mechanics individually hard to deal with. But how well can you concentrate whilst doing your job to a high enough standard to succeed? And can you go a full battle without losing concentration once? It's a test of your group's ability to go one battle without losing focus for a moment.

You say the fights are not about how well you can heal or MP management? I say that yes, that is exactly what they are about. How well can you heal your tank being pulverized by auto attacks whilst dodging various TP moves that could potentially one shot you? How well can you manage your MP knowing sometimes you will have to throw out a few Cure 2s in quick succession to compensate for the damage the tank receives when you're running from something?

It seems like you want a fight where you can stand on one spot and just heal. If this is the type of gameplay you're looking for, A Realm Reborn might not be for you. Dodging is a pivotal mechanic in every battle to date and will continue to be so. Something about having to react on the fly to varying mechanics? Anyone can heal when standing still with nothing else to do. It's easy. What's challenging is being that good a healer whilst having to dodge mechanics, pushing it to the last second of dodging to get that life saving Cure 2 on the tank.

Again, chuckling at the irony of you calling these mechanics lazy. What's lazy is you expecting to just stand still for an entire battle.

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Originally Posted by Synestr

Yes...

/ac "Manawall"
/wait 1
/ac "Manaward"
/s Ya missed me B*tch!!!!

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What a waste to tie a physical and magical barrier into one button when each attack is either physical OR magical. If you're trying to be pro, why not push the separate button.

What I could see here:

- making a real dungeon-like setting, killing the worshippers along the way up to the actual 'god' -

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

What a waste to tie a physical and magical barrier into one button when each attack is either physical OR magical. If you're trying to be pro, why not push the separate button.

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Lol coz all da pro's do da macs like dat, fo sheeezy leetsy!!!

Ur a funny guy!

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Originally Posted by Synestr

Lol coz all da pro's do da macs like dat, fo sheeezy leetsy!!!

Ur a funny guy!

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Are you having a stroke?

So... what... you want the traditional tank and spank stuff where everyone just stand in the same spot forever? For every single fight?

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Originally Posted by Chihaya

So... what... you want the traditional tank and spank stuff where everyone just stand in the same spot forever? For every single fight?

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Point to where they ever suggested they do it for "every single fight".

Now, we all know that because of ARR's extremely streamlined gear a high level tank and spank just wouldn't work, but I'm also getting a little tired of the gimmick-heavy fights. It's really rough on new players because it's so different than everything leveling dungeons taught them to expect, as most of them really were just simple tank and spanks.

What I'd like to see is more "serious" 4 man content. Frankly, the AoE-heavy gimmicks of Primals and other progression content would be right at home in 4 man dungeons as it means less people have to be on point to win, making all 4 man content casual dungeons for tomestones was seriously a mistake.

I think only Titan is not forgiving, at least so far.

Personally, I would like to see less dodging AoEs and more platforming, switches, or weird buffs/debuffs instead of the usual one that tanks seem to get in every Primal EX/Coil (think Giglamesh's fight).

I agree with the OP.. a lot of the fights (not just primals - coils included) are simply just a 'dance' and don't have much to do with a person's real capability of play.

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Originally Posted by melisande

I agree with the OP.. a lot of the fights (not just primals - coils included) are simply just a 'dance' and don't have much to do with a person's real capability of play.

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I'm on SeleneVenizelos's side with this. What would you define as "a person's real capability of play" if not being able to put out significant damage while dealing with mechanics that require you to multitask and make snap decisions? Anyone can memorize a spell rotation and pump out big numbers like every fight I can remember from WoW. One of the major raids of Vanilla WoW (Onyxia) had like one mechanic: dodge the wave of lava. Other than that you stood still and did the same rotation over and over. Compare that with a monk doing Garuda EX: they have to dodge Wicked Wheels, DPS the right adds at the right time (Chirada, Suparna, Razor Plumes, Satin Plume, Spiny Plume), stand far enough away from pillars so that Friction doesn't destroy them, transition through Tornados without dying, all while keeping 3 stacks of Greased Lightning up for maximum damage. And you think this is anything other than the epitome of a person's real capability of play?

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Originally Posted by Unmotivated

-stuff-

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Originally Posted by Eldelphia

Please, for the love of Eorzea can we have a different style of Primal fight? I enjoy the dungeons (even if they get repetitive). I dabble in treasure hunting, beastman quests, crafting and gathering.

I have beaten Coil 1-5 and all the Extremes except Leviathan which I'm currently learning. Frankly, I hate it.

What I'm really missing is a fight where it's not about movement. I'm predominantly a healer (i94 SCH, i90 WHM, i87 SMN and i84 WAR). I understand that it's an important mechanic but it seems all of the Primal fights are about positioning and movement only. It completely penalises casters and is exhausting for healers. The fights are not about how well you can heal or MP management. They're about running around.

Make us hit switches, switch tanks, switch DPS type or something but let us stand still for a change. It's incredibly rough on people who have lag.

I abhor this style of fight, it feels lazy.

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Pretty saying she doesnt want to move... ever... cause making player move is... uhh... lazy?

We're all being lazy sitting there playing this game.


That's why we have to move in the game


Problem solved

We just need fights with changing BGM as phase changed like titan!

We should be forced to change our role in order to complete some new trials.

Like... The Navel (Nightmare)

Everyone has to be a tank to survive a blast, than all of us have to dps at the same time to do ANY damage.. Than you switch to Healer because you can only heal yourself in the fight.

I agree that dodging is indeed paramount to keeping the game challenging though i must say it would be nice if the landslides on titan ex only broke off into two instead of three lol. Other than that the challenge of this game is great.

EX Primal encounter design:

Phase 1: There are four things in a pattern to dodge, which are all attacks you've seen before.
Phase 2: There are now SIX things in a pattern to dodge, and one of the old things has a new twist!
Phase 3: Dodge all the things while killing the new targets that appear in time for the overdrive attack!
Phase 4: Can you dodge EIGHT THINGS!? Stand in the designated Safe Spot for your role and kill the adds! This phase repeats until the boss is dead. At sometime just after ten minutes, an enrage attack will kill the entire party if you suck.

EXTRA CREDIT! Randomly insert one of the following: Party members can fall off the arena, an add you SHOULDN'T kill, tank swap, repeated iterations of the Phase 3 ultimate attack.

Compared to the stuff in Coil, I gotta say, 'traditional' Primal battles feel lazy and formulaic. The ones that are kind of off the beaten path (Moggle Mog, Greg) tend to be interesting, but the mainline primals are just...ehh.

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Originally Posted by Eldelphia

What I'm really missing is a fight where it's not about movement. I'm predominantly a healer (i94 SCH, i90 WHM, i87 SMN and i84 WAR).

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The stuff people complain about really blows my mind.

"I don't want dodging."
"I don't want random."
"I don't want memorization."
"I don't want movement."

Square has made some really cool encounters that are a step above stuff seen in WoW. Even giving players a way to get some pretty epic gear without raiding.

Yet what we get in response.
A community picks apart abstract aspects of encounters and complains.
In what MMO did you play where you did just stand during endgame content?
How did you think it was going to work?

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Originally Posted by Logo

The stuff people complain about really blows my mind.

"I don't want dodging."
"I don't want random."
"I don't want memorization."
"I don't want movement."

Square has made some really cool encounters that are a step above stuff seen in WoW. Even giving players a way to get some pretty epic gear without raiding.

Yet what we get in response.
A community picks apart abstract aspects of encounters and complains.
In what MMO did you play where you did just stand during endgame content?
How did you think it was going to work?

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Blows my mind too. Might as well not play video games ever again because boss battles will have one of these elements.

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Originally Posted by Logo

Square has made some really cool encounters that are a step above stuff seen in WoW. Even giving players a way to get some pretty epic gear without raiding.

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They are the same exact stuff you see in Warcraft with prettier graphics.

You can break almost all the encounters down into the basic elements of "Don't get hit by shit, don't stand in shit, hit shit." Truly new elements are few and far between, even in Warcraft, and there's so very little in FF encounters that really makes it a 'step above' the rest.

For presentation, yes, the encounters are pretty (And the musical score top notch), but the encounters themselves? Meh.

Errr...

For majority of the Levi fight, I'm pretty much just hanging around in the center throwing heals. I only reposition myself so people don't get hit by the aoe that targets healers. And of course, slides and slams but that's a necessary evil and dodging is fun once you get the hang of it. Ditto with King Moggle, I just hang around the side of the arena, mind everyone's HP and watch out for debuffs while evading the occasional pomflare.

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Originally Posted by Eldelphia

Make us hit switches, switch tanks, switch DPS type or something but let us stand still for a change.

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Actually, with the healer debuff the tank gets dealing with the tail, healswapping is a viable option, to allow more aggressive heals yet still allow max range casting.

Didn't ever play WoW but I think FF has some really nice and fun fights. What you guys forget, every beaten fight is easy afterwards, same as bicycling, that is how it is. Every solved problem is easy.

My favorite fights are:

- Turn 2 non-enrage
- Turn 7
- Turn 9
- Titan HM/EM
- Moogle Ex

They all have their own special thing imo.