So what our Blm true numbers.

I am quite frustrated when it comes to this. I hear on my server some blm claiming they can pull 350 to 380 sustained dps on turn 8. Im still wondering well just damn how. its really frustrating me to no end how i cannot even come close to those numbers and during that fight i do not stop casting at all. the few times im moving im casting stuff. im popping my skills on cds to use as much as i can during that fight and popping potions as well. I am either at 300 ish or a bit lower or higher give or take.

I am not waiting for mana to regen if i cast a bliz 3 and dont have enough for thunder 1 or 2 but have for bliz 1, cast that, have enough mana for t2, but most of the time i do hit it right where i do get enough mana to cast either of the two thunder spells, my thundercloud procs are t3 ones and i do pop firestarter as soon as it procs or slightly after another fire 1 is going off.

So seriously what in flying hell am i doing wrong.? My only guess its, well how parsers are being used one thing that gave me peace of mind that one of the blm who told me he pushes out 350 to 380 dps with his 110 wep, ended up pushing just a bit above 300 when the same person who parses me has parsed him.

Then i see posts of people claiming 350 to even over 400 but proof to back it up and this bugs me, is this just everyone using different parsers which make our numbers so different? i know some people put a delay on one known parser and that does keeps their numbers up for when there is downtime during the fight.

Its to the point that I was supposed to get my 110 wep upgrade this week, but since we are pushing to turn 9 that has been scrapped and the 2 other dps will now get it before me because t9 is a big movement fight and my upgrade will be marginal compared to the other two. so it makes me feel like i picked the wrong class. it makes me feel like a damn shitter who does not know how to blm which isnt that darn hard at all. I am just frustrated of people saying they can pull bigger numbers than me as a blm but when parsed by the same person its similar to my numbers.

I just wanna know is there a general parser used, is it used as is or are they altered in any way to conduct a session. If thats the case should there not be a rule set for all those who count apples to follow so we dont get huge differences in the numbers. bleh...

I'd say they are lying。　Black Mage isn't such an indepth class that you should have far off numbers from each other. Once you know the rotation, you pretty much get the same numbers as everyone else. Since Black Mage is RNG class anyway, I wouldn't fret too much, however people saying 400+ they better provide some proof.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

I'd say they are lying。　Black Mage isn't such an indepth class that you should have far off numbers from each other. Once you know the rotation, you pretty much get the same numbers as everyone else. Since Black Mage is RNG class anyway, I wouldn't fret too much, however people saying 400+ they better provide some proof.

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This is really a myth among BLM. If it were true you wouldn't see BLMS that range from excellent to terrible. On levi I've seen lows on blm as bad as 160, while I have popped 310 on it. Titan ex I've seen terrible low sub 150 parses while I've topped at 307 (2.1). Point is is well its like any other job where there are skill gaps.

And honestly fixing dps isn't simply using <insert rotation here> it is much more than that.

A good counter-intuitive trick is to not use all of your MP on Fire I casts, leave your MP at or just below 1000 MP and start Blizzard III then into Thunder II then from there you should go right back into Fire III and Fire I spam. I don't main BLM but I've downed up to T5 and all EX primals on it using this and I do better DPS than when I would deplete my MP.

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Originally Posted by Xisin

This is really a myth among BLM. If it were true you wouldn't see BLMS that range from excellent to terrible. On levi I've seen lows on blm as bad as 160, while I have popped 310 on it. Titan ex I've seen terrible low sub 150 parses while I've topped at 307 (2.1). Point is is well its like any other job where there are skill gaps.

And honestly fixing dps isn't simply using <insert rotation here> it is much more than that.

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I don't parse anymore, haven't since the start of 2.1 but when I did see low BLM it was because their rotation was dumb. Most common spam Fire III all day every day, flare into transpose on single target. Fixing DPS to an acceptable standard is rotation. Exceeding that is being better than the average joe (then again, average joe is trash).

People TEND to use their highest parse they've seen when making a benchmark for DPS. On top of that Black Mages are very RNG based. Sometimes you'll get 2 firestarters and a thundercloud in your first Astral Fire burn then never see a proc for minutes. Due to this, sometimes when someone says "over 400" what they mean is "I'm a decent black mage who got a million procs, then we killed the boss, and I saw how much I did" (especially on T8).

That said, Black Mages having "not much variation" is indeed much more myth than fact. But it comes not from proper rotations as most Black Mages I see are at least competent with their rotation. Where the lines start being drawn is when movement becomes an issue. Fights like the ex primals and T6 have a lot of movement and a talented black mage who knows how to manage his procs and aetherial manipulation to move about the battlefield and use their Manawall/Ward to ignore mechanics that would cause them to move will easily do 20-30% more DPS than a Black Mage who follows the A-B-C rules and nothing more.

tl;dr take everything blms say about their numbers with a grain of salt. We have a heavy rng component of our rotation, variation is going to happen and people like to use the best of themselves as marks.

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Originally Posted by Xisin

This is really a myth among BLM. If it were true you wouldn't see BLMS that range from excellent to terrible. On levi I've seen lows on blm as bad as 160, while I have popped 310 on it. Titan ex I've seen terrible low sub 150 parses while I've topped at 307 (2.1). Point is is well its like any other job where there are skill gaps.

And honestly fixing dps isn't simply using <insert rotation here> it is much more than that.

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And this is where i call bullshit, if you can pull out those numbers put up the proof. but then its not that , you obviously would know a thing or 2 over other blm if the numbers are that big of a diff. If you pull these god like numbers as you boast, i did see you claim over 400 dps on turn 8, well then make a good guide. I know clearly well you just do not do x rotation as you need to adapt to movement and not pop out a target dummy perfect world mentality. I am aware that i should not wait till i have to little mana to go to bliz 3 and thunder after. I know how to use my wards and all to bypass mechanics to keep me dpsing. Yet im that shitter blm you point out. if you are that awesome you claim to be well write about it, help out those fellow blm who can only bask in your e-juices cuz your e-peen gushes all over them. Id like to know what you do that is so different to make you pull those numbers, see if i can adapt to that and be capable of pulling it off myself.

my guess is they have 2 bards in group that are rotating through foes a lot of the time, which with an i110 wep would be prety easy to pull to 350-400 dps on a blm
with int pots, auto hits, poison pots, etc, the dps all adds up rather quickly

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Originally Posted by Zamii

my guess is they have 2 bards in group that are rotating through foes a lot of the time, which with an i110 wep would be prety easy to pull to 350-400 dps on a blm
with int pots, auto hits, poison pots, etc, the dps all adds up rather quickly

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ilv96 with ilv95 allagan stuff and pot and food i pulled 310 in T8 and our BARD doesn't FOE. I don't even use poison pot.
So if add FOE. I would be able to pull 350 if my RNG is good. 400 isn't a mystery if you know what you are doing with your GEAR and ROTATION and...LUCK
Because I could pull 320+ at dummy if I'm lucky with my RNG that doesn't killing my dps.
Oh and my avg dps is around 290.

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Originally Posted by ZeroAmano

ilv96 with ilv95 allagan stuff and pot and food i pulled 310 in T8 and our BARD doesn't FOE. I don't even use poison pot.
So if add FOE. I would be able to pull 350 if my RNG is good. 400 isn't a mystery if you know what you are doing with your GEAR and ROTATION and...LUCK
Because I could pull 320+ at dummy if I'm lucky with my RNG that doesn't killing my dps.
Oh and my avg dps is around 290.

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I'm ilvl 100 with the 110 staff, our bard foes at the beginning of the fight and momentarily at the end of the fight (So rather sparingly, we get approx. 30 seconds of it) and I do 340-370 (RNG dependent). So yes, if I had foes the whole time I could easily see 400. But again, the point is Black Mages have a lot of RNG and foes req dependency to pull those kinds of numbers and in attempting to answer the OPs question I'd say you'd have to consider what the black mage player means by "400 dps" to be a combination of luck, at least mild skill, the fight itself, and consider the bards role. Not their, testing on the dummy dps.

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Originally Posted by Zencurse

I'm ilvl 100 with the 110 staff, our bard foes at the beginning of the fight and momentarily at the end of the fight (So rather sparingly, we get approx. 30 seconds of it) and I do 340-370 (RNG dependent). So yes, if I had foes the whole time I could easily see 400. But again, the point is Black Mages have a lot of RNG and foes req dependency to pull those kinds of numbers and in attempting to answer the OPs question I'd say you'd have to consider what the black mage player means by "400 dps" to be a combination of luck, at least mild skill, the fight itself, and consider the bards role. Not their, testing on the dummy dps.

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Yeah.
Puro Strider's Info is truth. "Skill=Luck">WD>INT>DET>Crit=SS. Do not follow the PERFECT WORLD SETTING.
IT WILL ONLY KILL YOUR DPS. That's how i increase my dps after I found DET is so important. Sadly I used my ToS too faster and went wrong setting. Have to take 2 weeks to get it back.
Hope I would won allagan stone at T7 so i will be able to pull 350+ easily. But losing 4 point to a SMN :/

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Originally Posted by Shadowzanon

And this is where i call bullshit, if you can pull out those numbers put up the proof. but then its not that , you obviously would know a thing or 2 over other blm if the numbers are that big of a diff. If you pull these god like numbers as you boast, i did see you claim over 400 dps on turn 8, well then make a good guide. etc etc.

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After a post like this I'd rather not help you lol.

All I was pointing out was that there are skill gaps, and its not just "hit 1" as the guy I quoted before was almost stating.

My turn 8 set up is blm blm brd drg drg war whm sch btw. The bard hits his req. at the beginning and on the 2nd dread, other than that I'm on my own. I do use pots, and poison pots don't count toward parse numbers anyway.

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Originally Posted by Shadowzanon

And this is where i call bullshit, ...

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stopped reading and advice every other blm not to help that 'lil padawan =)

there are 3 stages of being a blm above average:
1) learn your rotations and skills
2) adapt that information to every different encounter (you have to learn the mechanics of the encounter in synergy with your skill set)
3) don't stop improving with every single engage

edit:
i understand y your raid is willing to push the other dps and not you, tho. me as a raidleader would def do the same x)

I have to agree that there can be a very great gap between good and bad BLM performance numbers. I was in a raid team with 2 BLM's once, me and a friend of mine. While he was a nice guy and fun to have around, his skill at the game was simply terrible. My BLM would parse between 290-320 and his would be 110-125. While his gear was slightly lower than mine, it wasn't so off base as to justify such a poor result. There can certainly be a wide gap in performance if one BLM just isn't optimizing their actions. Some of it is rotation, while the other part is simply being in the right place before hand so you don't have to interrupt as many casts.

(cont.)

There is also the issue of knowing just how far you have to move to be safe. I noticed he wouldn't stand on the potential edge of incoming AoE damage, resulting in him having to move a lot further to get out of the AoE. More time moving is less time casting. He would also run a lot farther past the safe zone than I would.

When we talked about how to boost his performance in our raid team, we found that he was doing everything more or less correctly, it was simply a collection of 293487532498573249832457 tiny details that just all add up.

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Originally Posted by Xisin

After a post like this I'd rather not help you lol.

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My big issue with ya is well you are boasting something that is untrue. Ill explain where im comming from. When i check my numbers its the full extent of the fight, nothing more , nothing less. It irks me to see someone boast they can do x ammount of dps on a turn but within it they are admitting to only a fraction of said fight but tote out they can pop x amount of dps on that fight. The issue here is that is not you're true ammount of dps of that fight i know is less but not drasticly so. The problem comes when people skim this and then come out n say well there are blm who pull out x amount of numbers in this fight and you are nowhere close to that. This is something i have to deal with not cuz of your post n numbers but due to how many people just boast the most dps they managed to do that was only a fraction of the fight and not its entirety. Id like to know, with your gear, what you really pop on that entire fight, an avarage, that helps motivate one to push foward if they see they are not so far behind. If my runs would go from 280 dps to 320 due to rng n stuff ill avarage out at 300, its a more realistic number in my case instead of me claiming my highest. its the purpose of this thread.

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Originally Posted by ks3v3n

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Oh trust me I know my rotation well and use all my skills to the best of my ability, i do not follow a set dummy rotation, if there is movement and i need to use scathe or something else that will hit my mana where i cannot pull out the perfect rotation i will made sure i am consistantly casting something and not waiting for mana because i went to low before going to umbral ice. In my group i am the most adaptable to encounters and usually i give them tips to what i can do that can help the group entirely. For example on turn 8 i know manaward blocks the damage from the towers, this allows me to take 2 stacks on the first and 3rd triple towers as long as i do not get allagan. this not only opens up another player to tag towers but it keeps me in the same spot to burn as much as i can.
I do not settle, i do want to improve, which is why i wanna know what we truely can avarage during full durations of fights, not 5 to 7 min in a fight or during a battlevoiced foe requim portion of a fight. I wanna know the whole thing as i base my dps on that.

Question for those BLM with exceptional dps numbers in T8: Do you guys have mechanics responsibilities? For example: On blm i'm responsible for clicking drednaught tower, and for eating 1-2 landmines with manaward up. I know it is hurting my dps but mechanics are mechanics

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Originally Posted by NyneAlexander

Question for those BLM with exceptional dps numbers in T8: Do you guys have mechanics responsibilities? For example: On blm i'm responsible for clicking drednaught tower, and for eating 1-2 landmines with manaward up. I know it is hurting my dps but mechanics are mechanics

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I soak landmines with manaward and take every other tower phase for a tick. I'm also responsible for making sure the Orbital Laser attack doesn't kill those bound (the bard is our backup incase I'm bound as well, our monk if both) and I tend to do a exceptional amount of DPS on the fight (usually only behind our monks). Just liberally use Aetherial Manipulation to reposition and you should have virtual 0 downtime.

Those numbers are not unrealistic.
The Blm in my static, hits pretty close to that, if not higher on a normal basis.
Mostly, depends on Rng of what is going on in the encounter, and his own procs.
Yes, he deals with towers, yes, he deals with landmines only mechanic the group is not dealing with is homing missiles and brain jack.

Not trying to continue any flaming, just my two cents in what I see in my static.
Think he is i98 with i110 weapon for sure.

My damage spikes pretty high due to Foe being up at the beginning of the fight and not having to do a whole lot, but after Foe is down and I'm handling mechanics (every other tower and mines) it starts to dip a bit. Also having to move out during Ballistic Missile reduces damage a bit.

There's a lot of variables at work, but if you could sit still and only have to dodge Ballistic Missiles and later on moving out for Allagan Field (if applicable) I could see you putting out a decent amount of damage. I still don't think you're going to beat out a MNK though. Also, if you're having to deal with towers/mines use Aetherial Manipulation to get back into place quickly. I have a macro to AM to a focus target. (don't really need to have Avatar focused in my experience)

As you become more comfortable with the fight you'll pick up on little tricks that can increase your damage. (like holding a proc if you know you're going to be running into a tower within a few seconds, using AM, etc.) Well, that and getting gear upgrades. I'm only sitting at i94 on my BLM so I'm still going to get destroyed by equivalent or better geared of every other DPS job.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

As you become more comfortable with the fight you'll pick up on little tricks that can increase your damage. (like holding a proc if you know you're going to be running into a tower within a few seconds, using AM, etc.) Well, that and getting gear upgrades. I'm only sitting at i94 on my BLM so I'm still going to get destroyed by equivalent or better geared of every other DPS job.

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Agreed. It's like cutting as many corners as possible while riding a jet coaster, drifting.

I can average 310-330 on a dummy at i91, without procs. Add some procs and especially lucky ones, like thundercloud when I need to re app thunder, and I can easily push 350-400 on a regular basis.

There are a lot of simple things you can do in BLM rotation that aren't the "Norm" like if I do blizz 3 and got a firestarter right before, I will do thunder 1, scathe, then during GCD I transpose into 1 stack fire, and do firestarter with no delay, doubling that firestarters damage, as I'm now in astral not umbral. I would blizz 1 instead of scathe for that, but I want the GCD counting while I transpose to waste no time.

Seem like minor things, but they add up.

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Originally Posted by Shadowzanon

My big issue with ya is well you are boasting something that is untrue. Ill explain where im comming from. When i check my numbers its the full extent of the fight, nothing more , nothing less. It irks me to see someone boast they can do x ammount of dps on a turn but within it they are admitting to only a fraction of said fight but tote out they can pop x amount of dps on that fight. The issue here is that is not you're true ammount of dps of that fight i know is less but not drasticly so. The problem comes when people skim this and then come out n say well there are blm who pull out x amount of numbers in this fight and you are nowhere close to that. This is something i have to deal with not cuz of your post n numbers but due to how many people just boast the most dps they managed to do that was only a fraction of the fight and not its entirety. Id like to know, with your gear, what you really pop on that entire fight, an avarage, that helps motivate one to push foward if they see they are not so far behind. If my runs would go from 280 dps to 320 due to rng n stuff ill avarage out at 300, its a more realistic number in my case instead of me claiming my highest. its the purpose of this thread.

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I'm not sure where your coming from other than "If I can't hit those numbers then its untrue... " the parses I've reported have been full fights and honestly I've managed those numbers on more than 3-4 occasions it's not a rarity and they are most certainly not anomalies. Should I post my lows? Not sure what you want. If you wish you can come on my server and I can show you... my info is easily accessible. If you wish to stick your head in the sand and ignore the numbers then that is your choice.

Tiny optimizations
-Spamming your Fire3 key on your last fire of the rotation (Assuming you aim for the 'blizz3 at 400-450 mark) will cast your Firestarter as soon as it procs, if it does. Otherwise, do Blizz as normal.
-If you finish casting your Thunder X and you -just- get the MP tick, you have enough time to cast Blizz1 or Scathe and then Fire 3.
-If you're lazy like me, make a Thunder macro; With your "I have mp" thunder cast first, and your "I don't have MP" thunder 1 second. What this does is cast your preferred Thunder if you have the MP, and the cheap one when you don't. Assuming you don't fall under 250something MP after Blizz 3, you'll always have a thunder rolling and get back into Fire as soon as possible.

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Originally Posted by Mister-Wonderful

I can average 310-330 on a dummy at i91, without procs.

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I'm quite curious with which gear you achieve this

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

I'm quite curious with which gear you achieve this

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I would like to see this as well. I don't believe it, and think this pretty much falls into what the OP is talking about. But hey, i'd be delighted to be proven wrong if it showed i wasn't doing something right.

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

I'm quite curious with which gear you achieve this

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I am also suspicious of this. If I had to guess, he's probably getting this from his first 20ish seconds of burst from using Raging Strikes/Flare->Convert combo and not letting it settle.

Yeah... at I93 w/ the T5 weapon, I end up around 295-300 after 5 minutes on the dummy, alone, without using Raging, pots, or adding in a swift-flare-convert-fire set...
So a consistent 310-330 on the dummy in I91 seems pretty high.

I definitely pull between 350-380 sustained dps on turn 8. The key to this is nuances within the fight.

Currently, I am a crit build with an average ilvl or 98 with an animus weapon just to give you perspective of what a more geared or less geared blm might do.

My advice would be to utilize your CDs with dreads and foes requiem. If you start the fight with raging strikes it should synch up off of CD with every dreadnaught that spawns. Anytime foes requiem is up, try to utilize an x-pot of int. to do major damage. Try to squeeze in flare when dreadnaughts are up, don't flare if it will cost you more downtime than you can afford. SAVE CONVERT FOR DOUBLE FLARE ON DREADS WHEN RAGING STRIKES OR X-POT IS UP!!! This is a substantial dps boost! My dps spikes well above 400 during those parts of the fight. Saving the convert for those parts of the fight allow for your to extend the duration of astral fire while buffed as well as get off a second flare with little sacrifice to dps. Also, try to bank a fire starter proc for when you double flare so you don't have to wait on the very slow hard cast of fire three when exiting the umbral ice part of the rotation.

Only use scathe if you are going to be moving more than one second. The 2.3 ish second GCD is not worth scathe damage if your just going to quickly side step. Scathe is great if you have to move to a tower or move to blow up a mine.

Lastly, if you know there is a part where you are going to have to move in 1-2 seconds, try to always finish your cast and then move. Never move mid cast unless you absolutely have to.

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Originally Posted by Licus

snips

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I would also add that making a aetherial manipulation macro to one of your healers/other ranged for T8 is especially effective for taking tower hits or moving for missile

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Originally Posted by Zencurse

I am also suspicious of this. If I had to guess, he's probably getting this from his first 20ish seconds of burst from using Raging Strikes/Flare->Convert combo and not letting it settle.

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That is how it works mostly, although I'm making a video right now to try to help prove it, its hard to avoid procs lol. Even ignoring the flare convert at the start I can do 310 average, just by watching my ticks and casting the right spells.

BLM is a bit weird when it comes to parsing because we can go FOREVER.
Unlike other classes which are limited by TP or MP, and can only go all out for 2-3, maybe 4 for DRG, minutes.
But at the same time, we are the most proc dependent, so you could have a LOT of procs in the first minute, and then a lot less for the next 4 minutes.
This is why I always try to do a 5, or even 6 minute parse on my BLM, for 2 complete rounds of Raging and Convert.

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Originally Posted by Mister-Wonderful

That is how it works mostly, although I'm making a video right now to try to help prove it, its hard to avoid procs lol. Even ignoring the flare convert at the start I can do 310 average, just by watching my ticks and casting the right spells.

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That doesn't give accurate numbers though. Parse for 5 minutes while doing that and see how low it goes.

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Originally Posted by Zencurse

That doesn't give accurate numbers though. Parse for 5 minutes while doing that and see how low it goes.

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I can see your numbers more realisticly achievable 340 to 370 I did manage to get to 320 this week with just the weathered wep. I do have a few tasks, triggering the 1st landmine tower, then triggering the 1st and 3rd defensive tower to the right provided i do not have allagan field. with manaward i take 2 hits off the towers freeing someone else from taking a hit from it and it gives us alot of room for managing other things. i only trigger landmines if and only if the designated person has allagan field so yes i do not move much. But whole fight numbers is what i wanted to hear, not people boasting numbers of a partial fight.

Yea I was trying to discern what was going on with Mister's dps since doing over 300 without using your procs in ilvl 91 seems extremely unrealistic unbuffed. As for T8 actual, today was the reset and after now being ilvl 102 I did exactly 370 with about average proc luck, and 30 secs of foes req (start of fight). In case you're still curious. Again if your in suped up gear with more foes req than myself I can see 400 being reached. Otherwise for T8 aim for 320ish till you have 110 wep.

Parsers are always an issue. NEVER compare your dps with that of someone who post theirs on the Internet, you can only truly compare if you parse the both of you in the exact same fight.

At best, you can see how they compare with others in their party. If everyone is higher than you're used to seeing, then its definitely a parser issue. And no, no amount of "little things you can do" will make that much of a difference in dps assuming you have a good idea of how to play the job to begin with.

That being said, given the mechanics of the fight, 350 is not impossible. Try to capitalize on the dread phases.

I absolutely refuse to believe people are getting 400 dps on target dummy single target though, even with pots and party buff. You might be able to get a burst that goes up that high at the beginning but as for sustained dps, nope.

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Originally Posted by PenutButter

I absolutely refuse to believe people are getting 400 dps on target dummy single target though, even with pots and party buff. You might be able to get a burst that goes up that high at the beginning but as for sustained dps, nope.

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A ilv100 Monk with Animus will say no to you. Because my FC mate did 400 on dummy without ANY BUFF.
Blm? maybe need full ilv110 to be able to have 400 dps on dummy without ANY BUFF.

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Originally Posted by PenutButter

I absolutely refuse to believe people are getting 400 dps on target dummy single target though, even with pots and party buff. You might be able to get a burst that goes up that high at the beginning but as for sustained dps, nope.

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A lot of i100 weap monks out there are dealing 400 or close to 400 on ACT. Those super geared mnks with i110 weap and avg ilvl over 100 can even hit 440.

This is just me. I think T8 is a terrible way to see if a BLM is good. T8 is basically a dummy fight. The only thing it proves is if you pull 350-380 DPS with iLevel around 96-98, you know your rotation. I've seen Monks doing 440+ constant DPS because it's a dummy fight...

What will you do to keep your numbers high on T9 which require a lot of movements? That fight, like Titan EX is those kind of fights you can brag for having high numbers.

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Originally Posted by ZeroAmano

Yeah.
Puro Strider's Info is truth. "Skill=Luck">WD>INT>DET>Crit=SS. Do not follow the PERFECT WORLD SETTING.

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Keep dreaming good Sir :)