If you have tunnel vision, please don't play a tank. :(

Pulling a group of enemies and only bothering to hold 1 of the 3 or 4 while the other enemies beat on the rest of the party is not good times for anyone.

most of the time its the DPS attacking before the tank can do anything, just makes the tank & healer's job harder.

I have tunnel vision and I tank just fine.

..I think. Can't tell from here. Too busy looking at my cooldowns.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by indira

most of the time its the DPS attacking before the tank can do anything, just makes the tank & healer's job harder.

---

I always wait as every tank is different as far as pulls and grouping. The 2 issues I run into and this is not all Tanks mind you, only a few. Tank pulls more than they can chew or can't hold hate or both together. I do see more DPS going overboard before an established pull/group is even in place.

I try not to do that when I'm on my PLD and will do everything I can to keep aggro on all, but I also have a 'you spank it, you tank it' rule. I'll try and save you, but if the dps has tunnel vision and doesn't think to change targets then I can't be bothered to help them. Particularly if I've marked the mobs.

I'm mostly talking about tanks that don't use flash/overpower and just attack one enemy, and then they all go after the healer once one heal goes off.

1. Tank marks focus.
2. Tank pulls focus with shield lob/Warrior alternative.
3. Tank keeps agro with flash/overpower.
4. Players only attack focus to avoid pulling the other enemies.
5. If other enemies attack other players, do not run and make it harder for the tank to pull it back again.

This should work out for everyone involved.

Paladin = Fight or Flight, Lob, CoS, Flash, Flash, Flash, Flash, Fastblade, Riot Blade, Flash, CoS, rinse/repeat from Fastblade.

Warrior = Infuriate, Berserk, Hawk, Steel Cyclone, Overpower, Overpower, combos, Steel Cyclone, etc.

Paladin's are a little more difficult than Warriors, but for the most part, AOE threat isn't difficult at all in this game.

I had a PLD last night in brayflox, would pull as follows:

run to group of mobs, stand there not doing anything until one noticed him and they all rush him, then flash ONCE, and focus on one mob. now as BLM, I throw thunder first on everything to have better chance of proc, so that was good times ..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saziel

I'm mostly talking about tanks that don't use flash/overpower and just attack one enemy, and then they all go after the healer once one heal goes off.

---

New/bad healer issue, regardless what tank is. I don't heal the tank until he builds enough enmity on all targets, if he dies before that - his own fault, should have positioned and flashed/cycloned faster.
DPS can choose to attack or not and noone in team will die whatever their decision was, i cannot see how this can be an issue for dps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TurboSol

I had a PLD last night in brayflox, would pull as follows:

run to group of mobs, stand there not doing anything until one noticed him and they all rush him, then flash ONCE, and focus on one mob. now as BLM, I throw thunder first on everything to have better chance of proc, so that was good times ..

---

DoT does not break sleep (at least for ACN), i think casting thunder and then sleep would solve the issue. Sleeping targets do not build enmity towards healing, good WHM will cast sleep if tank has marked the targets.

Sometime, Camera and small areas effect myself. I also only EXP with my wife and she will tell me if something is hitting someone else.

People forget to communicate in this game.
I have a chime on.
If you got hate off the tank and the tank doesn't notice /p help I'm getting attacked.
Don't RUN when you get hate.

Honestly, I typically only mark targets that need to die quickly. Marking every pull can some times have a detrimental effect.

- If people don't follow the order and the tank is focusing mainly on the numbers, then he'll lose threat.

- If the tank is focusing on the numbers and not flashing/overpowering enough as well, then the healer will gain aggro on the other mobs.

- If the tank is focusing and everyone else is AOEing, then he'll lose threat.

- If the tank marks, some players will not AOE, which makes everything a bit slower.

Personally, I'll just do one of the two AOE threat generating rotations that I mentioned earlier and just let the DPS go to town. If they want to focus they can, if they want to AOE, they can.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saziel

I'm mostly talking about tanks that don't use flash/overpower and just attack one enemy, and then they all go after the healer once one heal goes off.

---

that's not tunnel vision, that's just them not knowing how to play properly yet.

tunnel vision was me yesterday killing the first toad in Aurum Vale and going to pull the next pack to the left and not notice one of the DPS deciding to go right and aggro a whole bunch of other stuff until i got down to half HP without a single cure.

It depends on how big is the tunnel. I do have kinda tunnel vision too. I handle all the mobs and keep myself alive but I won't read the party channel to see that someone is wanting me to put the mobs 5° clockwise so he can do more DPS. If he want me to handle this parameter, he has to ask before the fight.
In three words : discuss strategy first.

Please keep in mind that the PS4 version has just been released as well, so we’ll be seeing a wave of new players in-game, who will have less experience in playing their class then others.

For example, i went into the Low Level Duty Roulette on my iLVL 80+ healer, to get the Myth Tomes i needed. This particular run had a Gladiator, an Arcanist with Topaz Carbucle active, an Archer and an overgeared White Mage (me).

Topaz Carbucle was grabbing hate from every single mob pack we were fighting and every once and a while i would grab hate from the mobs Topaz wasn’t tanking. So, i looked closely what the Gladiator was doing and fair enough, he was not using flash.

I noticed the message at the beginning that someone was new in the Dungeon, so i figured that it was the Gladiator who was new here. First, i asked the Arcanist to use Emerals Carbuncle instead of Topaz. Then i started giving tips and instruction to the Gladiator on how he should start a battle, generate initial hate and keep it. Next to that, i marked the mobs so that everyone knew in which order the mobs should be attacked.

During the course of the dungeon, the Gladiator was steadily improving his tanking skills and managed to keep hate twice as long, but rapidly draining his MP. So, i talked about how he could regain his MP by using a Riot Blade rotation. And finally, I talked him through the boss battles, pointing out what he should be focussing on.

At the end, the Gladiator thanked me for all the information i gave him and told me that he would go and practice with it.

These are all “problems” we had when we were leveling our tanks, or any other class we’re leveling. Therefore, instead of pointing fingers and saying things like “you should not play tank”... Talk to them. Try and figure out why they are having trouble and present them with tips, rather than “bashing” them.

Maybe they are just new to the class, or even the game. We were all like that once, remember?

So… Help a fellow adventurer out, mmkay?

I zoom right the hell out when I'm tanking, it's not a must, but it certainly helps when trying to control the battlefield.

If they were new to the game, sure. When a tank is in full Allagan, though..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saziel

Pulling a group of enemies and only bothering to hold 1 of the 3 or 4 while the other enemies beat on the rest of the party is not good times for anyone.

---

Could say the same.. If you can't focus on the targeted monster, don't play a dps. Seriously... how hard is it to notice that you're taking hate back ? Just have to switch target. It's not even difficult

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Could say the same.. If you can't focus on the targeted monster, don't play a dps. Seriously... how hard is it to notice that you're taking hate back ? Just have to switch target. It's not even difficult

---

On my SMN I never bother with trying to figure out what mob the tank is targeting and rarely do I ever pull hate. This is with me using bane/fester/shadowflare/bio ii on large groups of mobs while spamming ruin 1 and 2. Occasionally I steal hate yes(on 1 mob), but I'm usually standing next to my egi who will kindly push em back every now and then. I see over-zealous healers steal hate more often.

I dunno if other tanks operate the same way, but in situations where I'm not marking mobs, I tend to pull with shield lob, flash the other mobs a couple times, and then build hate first on the mob I initially pulled. If DDs focus on the mob I lobbed (easy to tell, since it will be the only one with any damage on it initially) I have plenty of time to establish hate there and then firm up my hate on the other mobs in the group.

If a DD doesn't clue in, and focuses on a mob I haven't gotten around to yet (aside from the initial flashes), I provoke it and switch focus to build hate on it for a while, and things are fine. If the DDs pick multiple targets that aren't the one I initially lobbed, things can get hairy, but this is rarely an issue.

Honestly, though, if your tank is pulling with Shield Lob or Tomahawk, it's a good idea to focus on that one unless given explicit instructions to do otherwise. Shield Lob and Tomahawk generate a small enmity boost, so if the tank hasn't had time to Flash or Overpower the rest of them, they still have an enmity start on that one.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by indira

most of the time its the DPS attacking before the tank can do anything, just makes the tank & healer's job harder.

---

The new HM dungeons must be a wake up call for new tanks, having DPS AoE the crap out of everything without any time to build hate.

DPS deserve to die though if they are attacking the wrong targets or just spamming AoE's.

Assuming we're not sleeping mobs, I tend to swap targets mid-combo to use my aggro-holding skills on as many of the targets close to me as possible. I'll open with shield lob then Flash+Scorn the crowd when they gather, swapping targets during a combo to spread the aggro. The 'focus' target I'll use Halone on so I can maintain aggro from the DPS, while Savage gets used on any mob which building aggro towards the party.

That way, if a DPS decides to bombard with AoE (as is often the case), the group has enough enmity towards me not to chase them down. In certain cases, it's also necessary to add a few extra Flash casts during the fight. It might not be the most 'optimal' method, but it seems to work well for me and I tend to lose aggro only when the DPS have both singled out separate mobs and are hitting them with everything they've got...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Versiroth

Paladin = Fight or Flight, Lob, CoS, Flash, Flash, Flash, Flash, Fastblade, Riot Blade, Flash, CoS, rinse/repeat from Fastblade.

Warrior = Infuriate, Berserk, Hawk, Steel Cyclone, Overpower, Overpower, combos, Steel Cyclone, etc.

Paladin's are a little more difficult than Warriors, but for the most part, AOE threat isn't difficult at all in this game.

---

that paladin rotation, isnt that great for pulling mobs in groups of 3 or less, any paladin worth their weight will know rage of halone combo is going to build the most threat. and honestly, you really dont need more than maybe 2-3 overpowers for warrior and can move straight onto your combo.

further, flash is no where near as good as overpower, so unless you're doing a speed run, you shouldn't really do more than 2 flashes, then move straight to your combo

What about the "if you play dps and can't control your threat, don't dps" thread?

Some tanks are just lazy and they don't mark mobs, so the DPS get confused. Even marked, some DPS attack the wrong target or just don't watch their aggro meter. They also may attack during a pull, I had several players attacking the trash when I'm pulling multiple groups. Some tanks don't even know the old trick of "splitting" the RoH combo (which is useful if your party has an over-healer or AoE DPS). Some healers start to burst their Holy/dot rotation without telling the tank (so you gotta guess when you see the number 2, 3... targets are being damaged). Some tanks don't watch multiple targets or their aggro meter.

Yes, some DPS will attack another target, by accident, tunnel visioning or... whatever reason. Tabbing between monsters helps. Check your aggro and if you see that other monster is taking damage, check it and build aggro on it too, if needed. Everything can be solved by giving the proper advice to that person. If they don't listen, then... well. The run might be a pain.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinko

The new HM dungeons must be a wake up call for new tanks, having DPS AoE the crap out of everything without any time to build hate.

DPS deserve to die though if they are attacking the wrong targets or just spamming AoE's.

---

If this is brayflox hm I'm sure groups really like that and don't just leave and kick you to find a tank that actually knows how to hold aoe threat and let's dps maximise their potential. I play both a dps and pld tank so I don't buy the excuses and have simply reformed groups with me as tank when people struggle to do the following.

Pop FoF. Flash. CoS. Keep flashing. Lost threat and weren't out of mana? Flash more. Weave CDs in as they also generate threat. Start cycling targets with your absurd threat lead.

It's so hard, you do it in fates. Enmity management difficulty in this game is a joke.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

If this is brayflox hm I'm sure groups really like that and don't just leave and kick you to find a tank that actually knows how to hold aoe threat and let's dps maximise their potential. I play both a dps and pld tank so I don't buy the excuses and have simply reformed groups with me as tank when people struggle to do the following.

Pop FoF. Flash. CoS. Keep flashing. Lost threat and weren't out of mana? Flash more. Weave CDs in as they also generate threat. Start cycling targets with your absurd threat lead.

It's so hard, you do it in fates. Enmity management difficulty in this game is a joke.

---

Agree with this. Many players think that a tank's job is just staying alive and holding threat but what separates a good tank from a great one is doing both and also allowing the dps to go nuts from the get go

Only stupid people need targets marked every single encounter

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

If this is brayflox hm

Pop FoF. Flash. CoS. Keep flashing. Lost threat and weren't out of mana? Flash more. Weave CDs in as they also generate threat. Start cycling targets with your absurd threat lead.

---

I don't use FoF there, IMO it's wasted because you will be spamming flash like hell. For me I use bloodbath then CoS, due to the amount of mobs for brayflox first pull, I would recover a few hundred HP just because of that :p

If ran out of MP PLD should start using their riot blade to recover MP and flash again. Some PLDs just don't and whine to the BRD for mage ballad which is like... WAT.

I would like to say this, range healer/dps stop standing at max distance and dps-sing/healing from there, I am not going to run all the way over to you to grab mobs that agro on you while trying to maintain agro on the mob melee is hitting, happens when range hit the mob when I only tomahawk one of them, before even managing to build agro on it. It won't kill you to stand closer, the my overpower can easily grab all the mobs. Got annoyed seeing this so often, fortunately not in hm dungeon, but only those below 50.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Versiroth

Paladin = Fight or Flight, Lob, CoS, Flash, Flash, Flash, Flash, Fastblade, Riot Blade, Flash, CoS, rinse/repeat from Fastblade.

---

Thats well and good if you are pulling 4-5 mobs or do ing a speed run but if you are doing 2-3 mobs its best to go in mark a target throw your shield and do your rage combo while cycling through your mob list, works every time for me just make sure to flash after savage blade then do rage of halone. PLD is so easy to tank with its not even funny.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joshdavis271

Thats well and good if you are pulling 4-5 mobs or do ing a speed run but if you are doing 2-3 mobs its best to go in mark a target throw your shield and do your rage combo while cycling through your mob list, works every time for me just make sure to flash after savage blade then do rage of halone. PLD is so easy to tank with its not even funny.

---

not hard hard to hold the whole zone if the DPS let you fire off your first two hate skills then its NP, but its that party you get when there aoe'ing before one fires off, or they decide they should pull for you then they get ran over and blame you for not pulling the mobs off them.
PLD = flash, circle of scorn, then your rage of halone rotation ending on a new mob.
WAR = flash, overpower and/or steel cyclone when its up. then your butcher block rotation ending on a new mob.

Got Pharos Sirius earlier, since I got WAR to 50 two days ago I've been using that as my primary tank for the time being for Roulettes and the like.


Had decently geared BLM and BRD, our AoE would be great. The problem though, was that the BLM was pulling before me, often and several times each pull, I'm running up to an enemy and he's already casting Fire 3 on them and hitting it before me, I decide to ignore it for now and just take it that he's testing his tank, he's also constantly medicating somehow to make his damage even more ridiculous.

We keep going on finish the boss after some difficulties because the healer wanted to Cleric Stance DPS instead of healing. The BLM is still pulling before I can establish hate, I've had enough by this point. I say "I don't know whether you're testing me or trying to make me look bad by pulling before me, but cut it out so I can try and do what I'm here for."
He lessens his pulls but steadily keeps doing it throughout the dungeon. As much as I like tanking with WAR, I know I'm likely to still get blamed for a DPS's mistakes later on if he pulls early and I cant even land a hit before he does a few thousand damage. Same with WHMs that Cleric Stance Holy spam, all the overpowers in the world wont bring back enmity if they do that a few seconds at a time before they're already dead, that also happened on that run earlier.

I don't like spamming flash and riot blade combo. It works if the dps are weak but when real good dps appear, riot blade + flash combo shows its weakness. The enmity that flash generate is significantly lower than rage of halone. So here is my usual combo (please note that I play on PC with keyboard and mouse so I have no idea how you do it with controller)
Shield Lob > Gather mobs > CoS > Flash x 3 > Rage of Halone Combo while tabbing through all mobs while watching enmity bar and make sure rage of halone land on the mob that has highest possibility of losing threat > Flash occasionally > Riot blade combo if i'm not losing hate on any of the mobs soon.
This help me control around 5-6 mobs without much problem, unless i'm too tired to watch the enmity bar then I just flash like all other pld do xD I mark when I'm sure that I can't hold threat against the dps, otherwise, ain't nobody got time to mark 6 mobs.

You yes you the guy who aggroes with your ranged attack and thinks you're doing a cool pull as a dps.

Stop it and go in a corner to think about what you just did.

Smh

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saziel

Pulling a group of enemies and only bothering to hold 1 of the 3 or 4 while the other enemies beat on the rest of the party is not good times for anyone.

---

Asking people don't play things they don't know, results in a desert game, because we all don't know nothing the first day we login.
Yes, it is quite odd pulling hate at first heal but sooner or later, a new tank will make experience and hopefully goes better.
Yes again, there is people who is slow at learn things, if they does at all, but this happens for everything. Tanks and healers are most noticed because their bad playing most likely will results in wipes, while dps using only one skill all time, just makes things a little slower.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LalaRu

Tanks and healers are most noticed because their bad playing most likely will results in wipes, while dps using only one skill all time, just makes things a little slower.

---

Dps is easy, being a good dps is however, not. Pull before tank hold decent agro > FAIL. Tunnel vision > not switching to adds or avoid ground aoe > FAIL. Not doing the right thing > not enough dps on dps race fight > FAIL. Dps has to learn as much as tanks and heals do, dude. It is really noticeable when you do things wrong. If you get good tanks and heals to make up for that, no problem, they forgive you. If the tank and heal are not good enough, they now have a reason to blame dps for their own failure.

I see more DPS being suicidal idiots than bad tanks...so far, I hasten to add. Mostly in lower dungeons, I feel that it's people new to MMO's in general, who don't understand mechanics like hate generation, heal aggro, etc. Or even know how to focus/assist target on what the tank is hitting, how to mark targets. Even if targets aren't marked, you can tell what the tank is hitting on. Point is, one mustn't assume the tank is a moron because he's not holding hate, he/she genuinely might not have a clue (I'm talking lower level dungeons here).

I used to mark targets. It rarely did anything. Many people seem to think it means don't touch.

The random Brd puller or the amazing i90 Drg that sprints into every single group the entire dungeon and just stands there spamming heavy thrust as hard they can while I clean up the mess burned me out on worrying about the dps. If they try I'll watch out for them. If they don't I play the how close to death can I get them before I have to save the healer game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

If this is brayflox hm I'm sure groups really like that and don't just leave and kick you to find a tank that actually knows how to hold aoe threat and let's dps maximise their potential. I play both a dps and pld tank so I don't buy the excuses and have simply reformed groups with me as tank when people struggle to do the following.

Pop FoF. Flash. CoS. Keep flashing. Lost threat and weren't out of mana? Flash more. Weave CDs in as they also generate threat. Start cycling targets with your absurd threat lead.

It's so hard, you do it in fates. Enmity management difficulty in this game is a joke.

---

I'm not sure what you post is saying, you say "really like that", but it doesn't make sense, why would any group enjoy their tank losing hate ?