wtf?????????????

i just got kicked from a T4 run for not dps'ing as sch?????? why? i usually dps the first pack of spiders then focus on healing but the war acted like not dps'ing was some horrible crime and they kicked me so i assume it was a fc group.

Lol really? They should have being so low players its not you its them

DF? PF? Notoriously bad people on your server if PF?

Good thing is, if the team is so low on dps that they need SCH to help, better not playing with them anyway.

i used to DPS a Sholar during first dreads and spider phases at the time but with current buff your DPS should not need help to do their job

As a WHM, I can confirm DPS is usually required and not impossible for certain phases. (Patch 2.1!)

Phase 1: Holy x 5
- SCH solo heals
Phase 2: No dps
Phase 3: Mana recovery & Stoneskining!
Phase 4: Holy x 3
Phase 5: SCH can apply DoT's
- WHM usually recovers MP
Phase 6: HEAL MODE! (We have 2 Dreads and WHM heals MT)

If they kicked you for not DPS'n though... Poor damage dealers are poor.

In my Opinion, it´s nice but not necessary - especially now with noobbuff, T4 should be a Cakewalk, when you know what to do...

Bad thing is, since T1-5 is open for Random Groups, everyone thinks it´s easy loot, getting party´s together with no clue...

I would've at least tossed out a siwftcast shadowflare on adds. However, they should've asked you to DPS first instead of just being a douche and kicking you without warning.

If they need you to DPS with the 10% buff things are not looking good for the party.

I don't think I've been in a particularly successful t4 party that really *needed* me to dps as a WHM. As opposed to just doing some to help out.

Scholars that don't use dots and bane deserve to be kicked. The entire reason you have a fairy to assist you is to let you do other things besides heal. If you as a scholar do nothing but heal then you're a terrible one.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Scholars that don't use dots and bane deserve to be kicked. The entire reason you have a fairy to assist you is to let you do other things besides heal. If you as a scholar do nothing but heal then you're a terrible one.

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The entire reason scholars have fairies is because they are balanced around having pets, not just so you can LOLDPS. Sure, you can throw DPS out when it a light spot in a fight or a trivial fight.....but honestly a good scholar knows when NOT to dps. If someone wants to kick you over it then more power to them.

FYI a good scholar rarely uses bane unless its a trivial, and I do mean TRIVIAL fight or calm lull in a fight for one HUGE reason. It uses an aetherflow charge - and those are much better spent on Lustrate, soil or even getting some MP back if needed, not helping slacker DPS.

Scholars not dealing damage?! What's next? Summoners not healing?!

i get a feeling it was one of those groups that have BLMs spaming fire3,blizzard3 even on aoe pulls, SMNs using only ruin, DRGs and MNKs standing infront of mob spaming their basic 1,2,3 rotation, PLDs and WARs in dex/int accesory spaming BB/Halone only without combo skills :)

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Scholars that don't use dots and bane deserve to be kicked. The entire reason you have a fairy to assist you is to let you do other things besides heal. If you as a scholar do nothing but heal then you're a terrible one.

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or tanks/dps are so bad that the amount of damages they take requires that the fairy and scholar do actually only heal and often barely make it ...before making silly comments might want to think a bit further

OP that was kind of dumb and as others said if they require you to DPS best not be there.

Mei

Lol healers are 93 acc below the acc cap for mage dps i used to dps (2.1)but really seeing miss on 6/10 mobs for 580 mp isn't worth it as whm. However as sch i use selene use spell speed buff on first pull throw up swift shadowflare and a miasma 2 in clerics stance. Drop shadowflare on dread and after shadowflare and miasma two on phase 4 when there is ten seconds left in phase 4 i takeout selene throw in eos and use her buffs to support the party for ph5 -6. Now 2.2 i keep selene out and use haste buff and still drop stuff when i can. But it goes so fast without it, it seems pointless.

you a genius, I barely can throw out any of the dots, most of the tanks I saw, except a couple, I am lvl 43 scholar and 50 whm, at the first hit were down almost 75% of their health bar...some play supermen, they pull an entire room, saw that in Stone Vigil, so many mobs that me and fairy had some troubles keeping the dam tank alive and even teh DPS since tank couldnt hold the aggro...this happens more then not...therefore what you describe above, probably is possible only with super geared players and eventually if not super geared they alreayd know what to do and how to move. Otherwise, at least as far as I am concerned, doting is very difficult, and two healers sort of kind of, is just barely enough.

But hey, different people different experiences.

Mei

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Scholars that don't use dots and bane deserve to be kicked. The entire reason you have a fairy to assist you is to let you do other things besides heal. If you as a scholar do nothing but heal then you're a terrible one.

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This is EPIC.. SCH is a healers and will be always a healer

i rarely found a condition when SCH must dots or the party wipes ( except lower level dungeons ).. but i've found many cases that sch can't lustrate and party wipes..
please, DPS for healers is Optional and will always be.

bane cost you an aetherflow charge and not worth it.. better use it for sacred soil.

Being kicked from a T4 group for not DPSing as a SCH is just really bad >>;

However, this doesn't mean there are not plenty of opportunities to DPS in T4 though, depending on your group composition, equipment, and strategy. My group pre-2.2 usually had two i8x tanks and given the gearing, was fairly straight forward to DPS (and either I get very lucky or the ACC cap is lower in T4 because of the "gauntlet of trash", if you will). We usually burn Dread in P5 so no double dread strategy here, and I'm usually healing the OT.

P1 - As you see tanks run in to get mobs, have Cleric's Stance ready, Shadow Flare the middle run in and Miasma II, DoT chain, Bane four targets, reapply Miasma II, get out of Cleric's Stance and heal. Use an Energy Drain or two to keep MP up as you generally have Aetherflow back up between each phase.
P2 - Each healer takes a tank, can generally solo heal as a Fairy just fine with added support here and there. DoT up your tanks Soldier and let it fly, add heals as needed.
P3 - Will generally need to heal spam due to 4x Bug Dreadnaught.
P4 - Same as P1, can focus on Rooks first, will probably need to stance dance more often
P5 - My group usually burned Dread in this, so I was able to DPS Dread and fresh soldier (in that order) to help out.
P6 - Will generally need to spam heals as my OT is now tanking 4-6 mobs at once (depending on how many bugs he picks up). Will need to off heal party on occasion as the Rook eats the physical DPS I'm usually with, lol. Once the adds are thinned on the OT, can help focus DPS on Dread as this Dread is no where near as potent as T4

Again, mileage may vary depending on strategy, ilvl, and group composition.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Scholars that don't use dots and bane deserve to be kicked. The entire reason you have a fairy to assist you is to let you do other things besides heal. If you as a scholar do nothing but heal then you're a terrible one.

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I'm not normally this blunt, but you're a terrible healer if you think this. Your ability to DPS as a healer is directly proportional to how skilled / geared your group is. If you need to heal 24/7 because the party's skill / gear is low for the situation, then so be it.

With that said, if it's clear all your doing is letting your fairy heal while you pose and look pretty, yes, you are a terrible SCH.

Always found this a curious case.. Are DoTs not affected by accuracy? As someone else menitoned, healers are natively 94 accuracy short of the caster cap.. Rose Gold accessories will only get you about halfway there, I supposed you could gear in i90 crafted (or previously vanya) melded with accuracy, but still.. DPS shouldn't be an issue with the buff and easier access to better gear. My guess is the group continued to wipe even after kicking you XD

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Always found this a curious case.. Are DoTs not affected by accuracy? As someone else menitoned, healers are natively 94 accuracy short of the caster cap.. Rose Gold accessories will only get you about halfway there, I supposed you could gear in i90 crafted (or previously vanya) melded with accuracy, but still.. DPS shouldn't be an issue with the buff and easier access to better gear. My guess is the group continued to wipe even after kicking you XD

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I believe Bio and Bio II are applied automatically because they don't have an initial damage, they're just applied and deal damage over time, so they don't "miss" as it's not attacking, just sticking to something. (could be mistaken though)

they are bad for requiring you to dps.
But you are bad for not wanting to dps.
solved.

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Originally Posted by UlricCraft

As a WHM, I can confirm DPS is usually required and not impossible for certain phases. (Patch 2.1!)

Phase 1: Holy x 5
- SCH solo heals
Phase 2: No dps
Phase 3: Mana recovery & Stoneskining!
Phase 4: Holy x 3
Phase 5: SCH can apply DoT's
- WHM usually recovers MP
Phase 6: HEAL MODE! (We have 2 Dreads and WHM heals MT)

If they kicked you for not DPS'n though... Poor damage dealers are poor.

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It is downright silly to cast even one holy in t4, unless you enjoy seeing MISS appear all over your screen.

There is no reason for any healer, whm or sch, to dps in t4, especially with the echo buff now (previously you just needed a decently geared group).

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Originally Posted by Bufkus

It is downright silly to cast even one holy in t4, unless you enjoy seeing MISS appear all over your screen.

There is no reason for any healer, whm or sch, to dps in t4, especially with the echo buff now (previously you just needed a decently geared group).

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Whm can throw a holy on spiders pre-echo as a safety, but realistically anything besides that a sch, a 360ish acc will not hit anyway, except spiders(which seems like low acc requirement)

As a sch, even free to dps, I get maybe a whopping 45dps on T4 (maybe shadowflare counts maybe it doesn't) But definitely a sch dps is even worse then a whm dpsing.

a healer acc is not meant for coil.

I think in terms of parsing out healer damage....they are both below 2% on T4 runs. Not significant at all.

I tried holying the spiders once and missed every time, even with multiple holy casts. I was geared out in mostly myth and some allagans at the time. This was pre 2.2 and no healer piece had added accuracy on it anyway.

If any groups had their healers dpsing pre 2.2, then they were just wasting mana and their dps must have been especially bad to rely on the added 10-50 dps a healer could provide.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

Whm can throw a holy on spiders pre-echo as a safety, but realistically anything besides that a sch, a 360ish acc will not hit anyway, except spiders(which seems like low acc requirement)

As a sch, even free to dps, I get maybe a whopping 45dps on T4 (maybe shadowflare counts maybe it doesn't) But definitely a sch dps is even worse then a whm dpsing.

a healer acc is not meant for coil.

I think in terms of parsing out healer damage....they are both below 2% on T4 runs. Not significant at all.

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Respectfully disagree about accuracy. I count the amount of times I've seen Energy Drain miss dreadnaught on a single hand in the 15+ T4 runs I've participated in and it's rare to see Miasma miss, and Holy stops things dead in their tracks in P1 and P4. I can consistently land Stone II on soldiers in P2 once half the adds are dead and fairly regularly on the Dreadnaught. However, I notice a significant miss rate against the nodes in T2. I think T4 has a lower accuracy requirement compared to the other Turns due to the fact it's a "Kill all trash as fast as possible" turn.

But like you said, if the DPS can't kill T4 even with the increased 10% damage, yeah, something is horribly wrong with your DPS.

Turn 4 is a bit of a dps race, true, but it's not one to which the group should require the healer to contribute, especially now that so many are in full i90 or better and with a 10% echo buff.

There's fights where the healer dpsing for specific moments can really help the team by pushing a phase or helping to meet some really high dps requirements. If turn 4 is one of them, you need to find better dps or get better gear or both.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Respectfully disagree about accuracy. I count the amount of times I've seen Energy Drain miss dreadnaught on a single hand in the 15+ T4 runs I've participated in and it's rare to see Miasma miss, and Holy stops things dead in their tracks in P1 and P4.

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All WHM I've ran with, and even running on my own WHM, report misses on every attack. On every turn... It may be that 341 accuracy give you like 5% (or something ridiculously low) chance to hit.. 435 accuracy is obviously for 100% hit chance.. But I suppose you could occasionally hit something with the minimum.

/shrug

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

All WHM I've ran with, and even running on my own WHM, report misses on every attack. On every turn... It may be that 341 accuracy give you like 5% (or something ridiculously low) chance to hit.. 435 accuracy is obviously for 100% hit chance.. But I suppose you could occasionally hit something with the minimum.

/shrug

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5% is waaaaay too low. I'd guesstimate the real chance of hitting to be about 75% with 341 on T4, though I've no solid evidence to support that number.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

All WHM I've ran with, and even running on my own WHM, report misses on every attack. On every turn...

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What? Every attack on every turn? I do know I miss a lot in Coil as WHM but I for example have been keeping Aero DoTs on Twintania in last two phases. I don't use a parser so don't know my ACC % but it's been something like 340-350 I guess.

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Originally Posted by Menae

5% is waaaaay too low. I'd guesstimate the real chance of hitting to be about 75% with 341 on T4, though I've no solid evidence to support that number.

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Around 75% would be my guess too. Not good enough for a tank or actual DD but very much doable for WHM and SCH.

Dps is too low it's obviously the healer's fault. Lololol

But seriously, dots miss. Bane them and a bunch will miss. When I heal this as scholar I try to keep a shadow flare down on dreads and spiders throughout. I can't imagine this being a significant dps boost though. With the echo buff things melt so fast I don't need to dps at any point.

If your healers need to help DPS, your DPS is not doing their job.

Pre-echo buff, I DPS'ed as much as possible between heals on my SCH. For Turn 4 in particular, I really only worried about helping bring down the spiders with a bunch of AoE Dots.

Post-echo, I don't bother dps at all. In certain fights the echo makes the dps so high it messes up the flow of the fight. And if your dps can't bring enough damage with the echo buff that they need you to dps....find another group, they aren't getting anywhere.

If healers *have* to DPS in any part of the raid, your DPS players need to be replaced.

The fact that your group thought that the healer NEEDED to DPS means that they must've thought that healers are just a name and that really instances should be done with DPS and Tanks only.

You should've yelled at the Tank for not healing and the DPS for not Tanking.

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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

Scholars that don't use dots and bane deserve to be kicked. The entire reason you have a fairy to assist you is to let you do other things besides heal. If you as a scholar do nothing but heal then you're a terrible one.

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If all of your fights are easy enough to heal that you can just let the fairy take care of it all while you casually DoT shit up and blow aetherflow stacks on Bane, then you should probably try something other than 4-mans for once, lol.