How Atma Grind Should Have Been Handled

Maps instead of FATE's.

A bit better drop-rate of course for the greater cost/slower pacing.

You stay level 50 so you get your abilities, there's other incentives involved, there's economy involved, and it's much, much more fun for people on average (fair presumption, I feel).

Drop rate fine , but they should have had other options , like 30k company seals you can buy a atma of your choosing with a lock out of 24hrs till can buy another one. Other Option like one dude said if get all the fates in the area gold get a 50% chance for the drop that day, with out warping. It would be find have a RNG, but make it so, you can see the light at the end of the tunnel. It should be hard,but john,jane,joe, and jen. The casuals team. That started in a few days should not also get all the luck and get them in 6hrs. With out a way for the rest of the people to see a goal also.

It nice to get people in the world of the game instead of just camping in the city for the dungeons. Yet would have been a little clearer to have more then one direction for the atma option from over powering the fates none stop with out no goal till the really man stuff.

Also it lame to do low man fates at a massive amount of people with the design since we can not get to them fast enough before there finish and if make them to hard down the road no one will do them.

Through new content instead of reusing FATEs and no extreme modes.

Maps have lockout/cost-association. Perfect solution.

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Originally Posted by Gesser

Maps instead of FATE's.

A bit better drop-rate of course for the greater cost/slower pacing.

You stay level 50 so you get your abilities, there's other incentives involved, there's economy involved, and it's much, much more fun for people on average (fair presumption, I feel).

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And of course everybody can need on your atma, otherwise it wouldn't be fun :p
We need some FFXI betrayals and backstabbing :)

They should have given people multiple choices:-

Last boss in a dungeon drops a random Atma.
All Maps drop at least 1 Atma.
Fates can stay as they are. (No relic equipped requirements)
Guildhest - Chance of a drop on completing duty.
Leves - Chance of Reward for completion.
Ventures - Retainers have a small chance to bring one back from exploration.

why dont you guys ask to out atma in shop for 1 gil?

Sucks 200 fates no atma, yet got 3 atma other night in 15 fates. Fun time roll eyes====/ . Yet heard some one got all 12 in like 4 hrs, OPTIONS. To match ALL PLAYERS, Having lv50 i90+ zerging fates is hmmm and even a low level will not have a chance get credit on the fates since so fast even with level sync on and/or the broken fates that like never can finish like drybone one. JUST ALLOW PEOPLE 2 buy the atma from the Grand company seals and have a timer on it. also keep the random stuff.

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Originally Posted by Kirosuu

why dont you guys ask to out atma in shop for 1 gil?

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Why don't you be quiet.

No atmas at all woud be ok. Just the tomes part of the quest is enough grinding to the reward we get.

Oh look, your 3rd Thread regarding Atmas.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Why don't you be quiet.

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bec i love how you guys keep whining and open new thread ofcoz
arent you guys want attention?

After all these Atma complaining threads, I finally see one where someone is giving possible suggestions. OP I'll give you a "like" for providing a solution instead of just complaining. I'd like to share my feedback to the solutions and hopefully provide one myself through my feedback. Thank you.

I think SE's biggest concern is market saturation of equipment. I've mentioned in another thread that I think the player base was spoiled on how easy it was to get their current Zenith weapons (including myself). However, to the dismay of a lot of 1.0 players that had to go through hell trying to get their relics during 1.0, (we'll just not talk about the grindfest that was). The relic progression I personally see as a long term goal. You have the option to grind FATEs or you can do it leisurely.

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Originally Posted by Gesser

Maps instead of FATE's.

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While Treasure Maps would be a good alternative, I would say don't let it be a 100%. The limitation for maps is only 18 hours if you yourself mine/fish/gather a map. You can still go to the market boards and buy maps until you run out of gil. It could be the same drop rate as some of the minions. That way you can't just buy your relic. I'm sure people would love to just buy their relics since it would be little effort.

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Originally Posted by mindful

Drop rate fine , but they should have had other options , like 30k company seals you can buy a atma of your choosing with a lock out of 24hrs till can buy another one.

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Personally I agree the drop rate is fine, however there are very vocal people who are complaining that they dislike the random number game. Which surprises me because I'm honestly trying to come up with an example (other than tome grinding for gear) where it isn't a random number game. Coil, CT, dungeons, primals, treasure maps, all drop loot that is random.

The 30k company seals would be interesting with a timer lock out, since you'd have FATEs, supply turn in's, levequests, etc to do to get company seals. People love options. Then again it's just another token system essentially. I honestly, can't come up with a good/bad scenario around this other than my personal view of token purchases (it feels cheap).

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Originally Posted by mindful

Other Option like one dude said if get all the fates in the area gold get a 50% chance for the drop that day, with out warping. It would be find have a RNG, but make it so, you can see the light at the end of the tunnel. It should be hard,but john,jane,joe, and jen. The casuals team. That started in a few days should not also get all the luck and get them in 6hrs. With out a way for the rest of the people to see a goal also.

It nice to get people in the world of the game instead of just camping in the city for the dungeons. Yet would have been a little clearer to have more then one direction for the atma option from over powering the fates none stop with out no goal till the really man stuff.

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50% doesn't sound like much on a micro level but SE is looking at much larger scale when it comes to loot. They don't want the server to be instantly upgraded only a couple days after a patch. It extends the content, it gets people out and about in the game world. People complained that their was no reason to be anywhere but a town/city because the game was all instances. Now you have a reason as a player to see the game world. I do agree that a certain sense of progression would be great. However, that comes with the books you have to purchase after collecting you Atmas. The upgrades to the Atma weapons is your progression trial/test/path. The FATE's is almost testing your resolve of wanting to force/push/grind your way to the next step. It's a love/hate relationship.

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Originally Posted by mindful

Also it lame to do low man fates at a massive amount of people with the design since we can not get to them fast enough before there finish and if make them to hard down the road no one will do them.

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Yeah, I think this is an inherit problem with the FATEs system. They seem more designed around small/medium groups or even passer-bys joining in. With a new shiney being added in the game everyone and their dog is trying to rush to the FATEs. Which makes the FATEs seem more like a mad house rather than feeling like you are actually doing anything. Then again this isn't really a surprise, as the weeks go by the amount of participants in FATEs will dwindle.

You guys are overlooking the OBVIOUS solution:

Atmas in the Mog Station store! A steal at only $1.99 per Atma!

*Gets pelted with thrown rotten tomatoes.*

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Originally Posted by Errors

Which surprises me because I'm honestly trying to come up with an example (other than tome grinding for gear) where it isn't a random number game. Coil, CT, dungeons, primals, treasure maps, all drop loot that is random.

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iLv 90 EX Primal weapons. that was the perfect system with a weekly lockout that didn't exhaust the content in a week and didn't subject us to terrible Range.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

iLv 90 EX Primal weapons. that was the perfect system with a weekly lockout that didn't exhaust the content in a week and didn't subject us to terrible Range.

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Ah good catch. Thank you.

While agree it's a good way to get folks to complete content and gear gear with a feeling of progression (via quest log). I don't really agree with your statement about it not being exhausted, it had a time gate associated to it, you can't grind it. I know many that did them each week until they got the BiS or weapons for their non-primary jobs. The limitation for this method of course is the weekly lock out. So, you could only get 1 weapon per week. People have been very vocal about time gates and loot gates. What options are left for SE?

However, lets go with this idea anyhow and see how we can apply that to getting Atma. So we'll go this route of thinking, "Once per week you can get a Atma of your choice for completing specific goals."

So, in best case scenario it would take 12 weeks (roughly 3 months) to get a single Atma relic. Hmm..can you imagine the out cry compared to now? Ugh. That's a bit extreme or perhaps a step back from how you can get Atma now. Some people are getting lucky and get enough Atma within the first 24 hours of the patch release, others aren't so lucky. However, I seriously doubt that if someone is grinding FATE's (I'm not talking one or two FATEs every so often), it's going to take them 12 weeks to get their Atma drops.

The benefit however of time lock outs is that SE has better control how fast loot gets into the hands of the population. Even with random number generator the current Atma system has, they control the percentage the population gets just at a different level as Atma gets spread randomly to individuals. We as players of course want things now, sooner, with little effort and screw what other people are getting/not getting. It's your typical player mentality. We all want the new things. SE is looking at how they can find a balance of having people play for the first week, get all the new shineys and then have a problem of people only logging in 1-2 times a week and start complaining that there isn't any content to do.

So, how do we suggest a system that feels like progression, doesn't over saturate the market with the new gear within the first 24 hours, doesn't bore the player base, gets them to play outside of instances, doesn't have time lock outs, and isn't the random number game?

I don't envy SE's position at all.


Side note: I do have to bing up that relic progression isn't our only means of getting new shineys. If you are in a good group of folks for coil you can get new loot from the new turns of coil (which I assume many haven't even beaten turn 5), you have solidery gear route which is your dungeon grind progression path, and finally the new Leviathan extreme weapons which is your "beat a primal" grind progression. So, there are options, however people want their relics.

I've seen a suggestion floating around that is something like "Adds drop chance per FATE done". So like, if Atmas have a 1% drop chance (just spit ballin' here), each FATE you complete adds 0.1% chance to drop up to a max of 5% if you don't log-out or leave the zone. If you do, the drop chance reverts to the 1% drop.

At least this way you are sorta affecting the RNG in a positive way. Would boost player morale I think, and they would be more willing to suck it up.

When I suggest Maps over FATE's... Atma's aren't rolled on, they enter your or any participants inventories just as they do now upon completion, also players are welcome to party up for other players' maps & receive credit just as they do for FATE's.

The higher drop chance accounts for the fact every player can only decipher 2 maps per day & don't get the option of picking their zone.

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Originally Posted by Lucke

I've seen a suggestion floating around that is something like "Adds drop chance per FATE done". So like, if Atmas have a 1% drop chance (just spit ballin' here), each FATE you complete adds 0.1% chance to drop up to a max of 5% if you don't log-out or leave the zone. If you do, the drop chance reverts to the 1% drop.

At least this way you are sorta affecting the RNG in a positive way. Would boost player morale I think, and they would be more willing to suck it up.

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Maybe that is happening and you just dont know it.

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Originally Posted by Elvin

No atmas at all woud be ok. Just the tomes part of the quest is enough grinding to the reward we get.

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Haha no kidding. I personally like the idea of the RNG farm (albeit I think the drop-rate is a bit too unforgiving)... I just don't like their implementation of it. More of my complaint however does land on the 13.5k myth afterward... that is absurd. Should've been 9k & let you buy the books prior to earning your Atma so you can at least prepare yourself. As it is, I'll prob hit a myth cap or two & have to spend on things I don't want before I have my Atma.

FATEs are bad for your health!

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Originally Posted by Arkghyom

FATEs are bad for your health!

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QFT. Haha word. It wouldn't be so bad if they'd made some more interesting FATE's... or put some mechanics into them (like outer-world dungeon bosses).

You know what would be cool? A puzzle mini-game.

Give the atma something like a 25% drop rate, but make it so when it drops, we need to solve a little puzzle in order to have it fuse with our weapon. I'm thinking of something similar to treasure caskets in FFXI, where you had to solve a little logic puzzle to open the chests, and the puzzles were even a little luck based.

OR.....

Since there are 12 categories of challenge logs, aside from overall completion, they could have had atma as a reward for finishing each category.

I hate PvP, but I would have suffered through 10 matches + 3 wins for an atma. Everything else I clear normally.

Alternatively, they could have made them unique, and just awarded 1 (you don't already have) per completed category. That way not everyone would be forced to do everything, but if you wanted to do it as quickly as possible you would be.

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Originally Posted by Djeserit

I hate PvP, but I would have suffered through 10 matches + 3 wins for an atma. Everything else I clear normally.

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This brings up an interesting point. I'm no fan of PvP either, and from simple observation I honestly don't see a whole lot of PvPers around the world. It seems that PvP has really isolated itself from the rest of the game.

Participating in PvP for atma would be a refreshing change from FATE grinding. And who knows, maybe all these people who have been dismissive of PvP without even trying it may discover they actually enjoy it.

Honestly, at first I had a problem with Atmas, but then I started spacing out my grinds. A couple hours a day (weekends being the bulk but I was also doing homework) and I'm now 2 away from my atma bow. I'm pretty content. Granted.. I wish this was based on skill and not random.

Nothing like elitist jerks that think they are the best because they got their atma in four hours due to LUCK.

I'm okay with random but I hate having to delevel for Atma grind. Timeworn maps would've been a million times better

I approve this idea.

- Yoshida

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Originally Posted by Gesser

Haha no kidding. I personally like the idea of the RNG farm (albeit I think the drop-rate is a bit too unforgiving)... I just don't like their implementation of it. More of my complaint however does land on the 13.5k myth afterward... that is absurd. Should've been 9k & let you buy the books prior to earning your Atma so you can at least prepare yourself. As it is, I'll prob hit a myth cap or two & have to spend on things I don't want before I have my Atma.

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My thoughts exactly. The reason you don't see players complaining about the myth grind at the moment is that they are still working on the Atma stones. Give it a couple of weeks and you will see the forum in a shitstorm complaining about how tedious the myth grind is.

I Would had just done what 1.0 had spirit bond the weapon.

1.special bonus if you spiritbond your weapon on duty finder.
2. SB the weapon on high level dungeon IE coil and hard and extreme primals
3. SB weapon on fates a % per zone
4. Just kill this amount of mobs per day per zone.
5. I even tempted to try speedruns on dungeons for an item. I had fun with them on 1.0.

This blind fate grinding is not challenging is just boring and annoying I manage to get my first atma in 5 hours of grinding fates receiving a gold medal every time. Come On SE 11 had pretty good fun ways to upgrade your weapon you could see the work and it was team based oriented.

I actually quite enjoy these now lol. I farm GC seals as well plus my luck on atma drops are rather high atm. I got 4 in one night, 3 the next 2 nights and have 2 to go :D

I might be in the minority, but the way I would have done it is totally do away with the atma drops period. Get a quest, move to books - half the cost of them to 750 myth each, but double the amount of books you do.

Keeps the myth cost the same, but lets you have a quantifiable path and not depend on RNG so much, since some people have terrible luck and some were done with all 12 in one evening.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

They should have given people multiple choices:-

Last boss in a dungeon drops a random Atma.
All Maps drop at least 1 Atma.
Fates can stay as they are. (No relic equipped requirements)
Guildhest - Chance of a drop on completing duty.
Leves - Chance of Reward for completion.
Ventures - Retainers have a small chance to bring one back from exploration.

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I would actually change the fate thing a bit. Instead of having X% chance at the end of the fate, I would change it so players get X% on every fate mob killed during it. This way, even if X = 1, you would still be looking at multiple times during the fate.

I think it would have been cool if the atma drop rate % was the same % as your spiritbond with the weapon, so 0% spiritbond can't get atma, 100% spiritbond 100% chance of atma. So the longer you've had and used the weapon the higher your chance of getting atma would be.

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

I think it would have been cool if the atma drop rate % was the same % as your spiritbond with the weapon, so 0% spiritbond can't get atma, 100% spiritbond 100% chance of atma. So the longer you've had and used the weapon the higher your chance of getting atma would be.

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This is sheer brilliance.

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Originally Posted by mindful

Drop rate fine , but they should have had other options , like 30k company seals you can buy a atma of your choosing with a lock out of 24hrs till can buy another one.

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So many complicated solutions, when the most obvious thing is here in the 2nd post! Keep the low drop rate For Atma sure, but allow Atma to be purchased for a large number of grand-company seals, or atma shards which could drop from every fate.

What is the possible downside to this? You still have the thrill of that lucky Atma drop, but for the unlucky ones each and every fate is a small step towards another Atma.

Edit: Simply and perfect solution, right? No losers. Or am I missing something? Oh and this is totally not a give me Atma easier solution. The cost in grand company seals or Atma shards will be high and only used for a few Atma, or by very unlucky players who never get drops after so many fates. If the goal is to keep fates alive, perhaps go for the latter with Atma shards that are only available through fates, otherwise Grand Company Seals would be fine.

The 1500 myth per book isn't that bad. I got most of it just doing my roulettes and maxing out soldiery for the week. I had 1500 from before 2.2 that i had saved b/c i didn't know what to spend it on, which came in handy.

The myth grind really isn't that bad, especially since you don't need it all at once. I just bought my 2nd book, and i'm already 300 myth towards the next one, without even trying.


(can look at this chars lodestone and it wont till you anything, at work and don't have the token for my main account)

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Originally Posted by Lynneth

I just bought my 2nd book, and i'm already 300 myth towards the next one, without even trying.

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I'd love to get started on the books! 26 hours of mindless FATE grinding, 1/12 Atmas.

They should remove atma all together. Wait until you see the myth book grind. RNG is disrespectful of your time as a paying customer.