I hope I'm wrong, but the Zodiac weapon quests..

Sound dangerously like just a couple of dungeons. I really hope that's not all it is.

Especially "Trial of the Braves". Just sounds like some kind of boss fight. Meh.

Yoshi has allready said they involve rare drop items.

I hope the rare drop isn't from a boss that we're expected to kill 500 times. That's not fun.

I may be wrong but by looking at the patch notes it looks like they change from Zenith to "Animus" and "Atma". The Zodiac Weapons. And I'm assuming the weapons that are 110 are the one's you obtain from the tomes of soldiery.

So long as they don't involve farming Primal Ex kills while server-side hit detection is still in place, I'm happy.

Garuda Ex is the upper limit of what's possible with my lag. Titan Ex is just simply unplayable, not due to skill/pattern memorisation, but simply due to latency between my client and the server due to my ISP doing traffic shaping, and I refuse to pay $15/month just for the "chance" at making this game playable in extreme Primals.

Of course, given the pattern of how this game has gone so far for the better equipment, it will be something just like that. You only get the chance at the good stuff if you are lucky enough to live on the same continent as the servers, and/or are willing to pay for something like WTFast, on top of the existing subscription fee.

Eh... I'll be happy/fine if the new relic weapons require em kills and some silly run back-and-fourth quests. Hopefully it's not RNG based because I have terrible luck. I may never, ever get my weapon if that's the case. lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saziel

I hope the rare drop isn't from a boss that we're expected to kill 500 times. That's not fun.

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Oddly enough however, this was HIGHLY requested.

People wanted something similar to how content used to work where long-term progression would be needed.
So this would be the herald back to that old content.

I want long-term progression. Just not in the form of killing the same boss a million times.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saziel

I want long-term progression. Just not in the form of killing the same boss a million times.

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Long-term progression, not praying to the RNG.

People think the game is too easy. Put in extreme primals.
People think game is too hard. Put in echo.
People think game is too easy. Put in difficult quests.
People think game is too hard.

Looks like the quest takes a crafted weapon and there are pieces of crafted weapons in dungeons.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Issachar

People think the game is too easy. Put in extreme primals.
People think game is too hard. Put in echo.
People think game is too easy. Put in difficult quests.
People think game is too hard.

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Hard =/= Tedious
Tedious =/= Hard
Random Luck =/= Progress

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

Hard =/= Tedious
Tedious =/= Hard
Random Luck =/= Progress

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Low skill =/= tedious
Progress =/= instant gratification

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

Long-term progression, not praying to the RNG.

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What would you consider to be long-term progression? Genuinely curious.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Issachar

Low skill =/= tedious
Progress =/= instant gratification

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Insults =/= valid arguments
Lack of understanding =/= facts

If your endgame content ever EVER causes someone to say "that's just how RNGs work" the only player skill you're challenging is the ability to do the same thing 200x and not make any progress whatsoever, in other words their patience/tolerance for abuse. (Thought I'd spell it out since your response shows a clear lack of understanding this concept.)

Anything where some players clear it once and get something, while other players clear it several hundred times and get nothing is not about skill.

Luck is not skill.

I can assure you, you'll be doing a bit of grinding;

As 'Atma' is a portion of the quest-line, you'll be gathering these it seems!

http://i.imgur.com/xdZHvvs.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

Insults =/= valid arguments
Lack of understanding =/= facts

If your endgame content ever EVER causes someone to say "that's just how RNGs work" the only player skill your challenging is the ability to do the same thing 200x and not make any progress whatsoever, in other words their patience/tolerance for abuse. (Thought I'd spell it out since your response show a clear lack of understanding this concept.)

Anything where some players clear it once and get something, while other players clear it several hundred times and get nothing is not about skill.

Luck is not skill.

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Luck is not skill, but manipulating the luck into your favor is.


And strawman =/= valid argument

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spellbinder

What would you consider to be long-term progression? Genuinely curious.

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Token systems are long-term progress, something that makes a noticeable dent in getting to your goal even if you don't reach it right away. (obviously not in the amounts that tomes are given out or anything, but say even if you don't get the lucky drop, you won't kill an enemy several dozen - several hundred times without any progress whatsoever.

For instance, challenging enemies or battlefields that drop either the item you need, or if that doesn't drop, a token which a certain number of can be traded for the item you need. Some people get lucky, but luck isn't the determining factor in whether you're allowed to progress.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Issachar

Luck is not skill, but manipulating the luck into your favor is.


And strawman =/= valid argument

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Name a single way you have any ability to manipulate a series of random numbers from a computer you have no access to.

Also stating facts =/= strawman, but arguing that you can somehow alter the random outcome of a computer program as a defense to crappy game mechanics is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

snip

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Easy. Make sure that you are the victor the first time, every time, when the RNG pays out. Don't approach from one direction, but many. Prepare many jobs. Play your groups like a fiddle, make sure you are first in line for that drop, and never accept anything less. This has been the rule for many years. If you cannot abide by this mindset, then struggle and watch your spoils go to somebody else. Once you are on top, then you can help the others. Don't confuse dominance for elitism. The difference between the two is elitism comes with unwarranted self importance. Dominance is intelligence and conviction, and the drive to push yourself above the norm. If you lose your golden egg that the RNG spawned to somebody else, you have no one else to blame but yourself. That is what it means to play the RNG.

And facts =/= opinions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shioban

I can assure you, you'll be doing a bit of grinding;

As 'Atma' is a portion of the quest-line, you'll be gathering these it seems!

http://i.imgur.com/xdZHvvs.png

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu533OKYHyc

:D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shioban

I can assure you, you'll be doing a bit of grinding;

As 'Atma' is a portion of the quest-line, you'll be gathering these it seems!

http://i.imgur.com/xdZHvvs.png

---

Looks like we going to be waiting around for a lot of FATEs to kill each zodiac beast. Yay?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Issachar

And facts =/= opinions.

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1.) luck
noun \ˈlək\

: the things that happen to a person because of chance : the accidental way things happen without being planned

Oh, but do go on.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

1.) luck
noun \ˈlək\

: the things that happen to a person because of chance : the accidental way things happen without being planned

Oh, but do go on.

---

Content in this game is built in such a way that an item will always drop without fail. If you slot yourself into one role, that is your own fault. Mark my words, this "rare drop" wont be any less common than a Vortex Ring of Striking. It's up to you if you have (or lack) the tenacity to get what drops.

But it's okay. I don't expect you to comprehend what I'm trying to get across. You seem to lack ambition :)

{Take care.}

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Issachar

Content in this game is built in such a way that an item will always drop without fail. If you slot yourself into one role, that is your own fault. Mark my words, this "rare drop" wont be any less common than a Vortex Ring of Striking. It's up to you if you have (or lack) the tenacity to get what drops.

But it's okay. I don't expect you to comprehend what I'm trying to get across. You seem to lack ambition :)

{Take care.}

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Yes, working towards an objective with demonstrable results rather than stabbing everyone else in the back to get what I want is a failing on my part.

Enjoy waiting for your drop for 3 months, see you back in the forums when the RNG doesn't give you what you want right away to hear your complaints.

So it goes, Relic 80 < Relic Zenith 90< Relic Atma 100 < Relic Animus 100 < Weathered Zodiac 100 < Zodiac 110

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zumi

So it goes, Relic 80 < Relic Zenith 90< Relic Atma 100 < Relic Animus 100 < Weathered Zodiac 100 < Zodiac 110

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I was thinking it went more :

Relic >
Relic Zenith >
Relic Atma or Relic Animus (depending on what stats you wanted the final weapon to have) >
Meld with Weathered Zodiac through Gerolt >
Zodiac 110

Though really we could both be completely off-base and the Atma and Animus could be part of the relic upgrades while the Weathered and 110's could be part of some new weapon entirely like Gerolt's Masterworks.

To be honest we just won't know for sure until either SE explains it, or the patch goes live.

When put this way, I should have my Vortex Ring of Aiming since January... oh wait, no matter if I "play the RNG" the damn thing never drops :P
I managed to get the mount and both healer/tank ring on Greed though, which kind of ease the pain.

Grinding FATEs, dungeons, bosses, trash mobs, even gathering to get a new powerful item. I'm perfectly fine with that.
Being at the mercy of the RNG God ? Yeah... I'll just main another class I guess.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Munba

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu533OKYHyc

:D

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGWubop6cDk

I wanna know why you feel that you absolutely need the zodiac weapon. There are so many people that get along fine without using a relic weapon. If everyone in the game just constantly gets the same gear and weapons at the end, now that makes a game boring. You have something to work for and that feeling when you do get it will make all the trying worth it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Radxen

I wanna know why you feel that you absolutely need the zodiac weapon. There are so many people that get along fine without using a relic weapon. If everyone in the game just constantly gets the same gear and weapons at the end, now that makes a game more interesting. You have something to work for and that feeling when you do get it will make all the trying worth it.

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Except that's what we have the i115 Allagan weapons for.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Issachar

That angst is delicious and pure.

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Sure, whatever gets you off or helps you feel better about yourself...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Radxen

Maybe but all I'm saying is you do not need the weapon to enjoy the rest of the game content, obtaining my relic did not feel good, I did not accomplish anything it was more like if you don't have it you are behind. I'd much rather work for 3 months or whatever to get a really awesome weapon and feel ahead but if I don't manage it then I don't feel behind because the weapon is rare like it should be.

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You're basing what you need on what makes you feel special, I'm basing what I need on what makes the game fun for me. The game already has what you want, the i115 Allagan, I just hope the game will still have in the Zodiac weapons what I want, a reasonably strong weapon that's fun to work towards like relics were for me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

Yes, working towards an objective with demonstrable results rather than stabbing everyone else in the back to get what I want is a failing on my part.

Enjoy waiting for your drop for 3 months, see you back in the forums when the RNG doesn't give you what you want right away to hear your complaints.

---

That angst is delicious and pure.

Maybe but all I'm saying is you do not need the weapon to enjoy the rest of the game content, obtaining my relic did not feel good, I did not accomplish anything it was more like if you don't have it you are behind. I'd much rather work for 3 months or whatever to get a really awesome weapon and feel ahead but if I don't manage it then I don't feel behind because the weapon is rare like it should be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Radxen

Maybe but all I'm saying is you do not need the weapon to enjoy the rest of the game content, obtaining my relic did not feel good, I did not accomplish anything it was more like if you don't have it you are behind. I'd much rather work for 3 months or whatever to get a really awesome weapon and feel ahead but if I don't manage it then I don't feel behind because the weapon is rare like it should be.

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I'm with Kiroh, that's basically what the Allagan/EX primal weapons are. Which is totally cool and fine for people who love that sort of thing like yourself. For others like me, the relic quests are what we strive for, to overcome a series of trials for the guaranteed creation of our weapon, something that stands as a symbol for the trials we conquered. Personally I don't look at somebody with an Allagan weapon and think "Oh wow he did something awesome to get it!" All I think is "Damn, dude got massively lucky."

Have fun playing alone Issachar

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Radxen

I'd much rather work for 3 months or whatever to get a really awesome weapon and feel ahead but if I don't manage it then I don't feel behind because the weapon is rare like it should be.

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As long as it's not super ridiculous and not insanely time consuming like these (among other examples), I'll be happy:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Trial_3597

and

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Trial_2772

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Castillan

So long as they don't involve farming Primal Ex kills while server-side hit detection is still in place, I'm happy.

Garuda Ex is the upper limit of what's possible with my lag. Titan Ex is just simply unplayable, not due to skill/pattern memorisation, but simply due to latency between my client and the server due to my ISP doing traffic shaping, and I refuse to pay $15/month just for the "chance" at making this game playable in extreme Primals.

Of course, given the pattern of how this game has gone so far for the better equipment, it will be something just like that. You only get the chance at the good stuff if you are lucky enough to live on the same continent as the servers, and/or are willing to pay for something like WTFast, on top of the existing subscription fee.

---

there was a note recently that said latency was improved further.... can't remember where, but it's in the notes somewhere

Honestly, I just don't want the Zodiac progression to involve anything over a 4-man dungeon. Ideally, it'll be mostly quests, maybe FATE's, and 'possibly' a trial like Chimera/Hydra were.

Just 'lots' of them.

Make us gather guaranteed drops. Make us kill lots of stuff. Make us talk to people all over the world. Hell, make us required to visit certain places in the world at certain times of day (Eorzea time) while there's certain weather effects if that's what it takes. Just don't make us spam end game stuff repeatedly searching for RNG drops...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiroh

I was thinking it went more :

Relic >
Relic Zenith >
Relic Atma or Relic Animus (depending on what stats you wanted the final weapon to have) >
Meld with Weathered Zodiac through Gerolt >
Zodiac 110

Though really we could both be completely off-base and the Atma and Animus could be part of the relic upgrades while the Weathered and 110's could be part of some new weapon entirely like Gerolt's Masterworks.

To be honest we just won't know for sure until either SE explains it, or the patch goes live.

---

How long until this guy realizes he posted the exact same thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Castillan

So long as they don't involve farming Primal Ex kills while server-side hit detection is still in place, I'm happy.

Garuda Ex is the upper limit of what's possible with my lag. Titan Ex is just simply unplayable, not due to skill/pattern memorisation, but simply due to latency between my client and the server due to my ISP doing traffic shaping, and I refuse to pay $15/month just for the "chance" at making this game playable in extreme Primals.

Of course, given the pattern of how this game has gone so far for the better equipment, it will be something just like that. You only get the chance at the good stuff if you are lucky enough to live on the same continent as the servers, and/or are willing to pay for something like WTFast, on top of the existing subscription fee.

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Without for a second excusing the architecture and server locations SE chose that are the source of persistent lag for many players, there are less expensive (and often more reliable) VPN options out there.

A tech savvy FC mate got me set up on a custom VPN built on a Digital Ocean 'Droplet'. That Droplet only costs $5 a month and has the capacity to cover 10-15 VPNs. One other FC mate and I share that Droplet so far. It has made a huge difference for me.