what kept ffxi fresh for players , cant be found here.

this topic is not for making people angry or telling ffxi was better. We always look for good experience with mmo to make our mmo better,
This topic is about how progression is going through in ffxiv. We always know anyone who just dinged max level in any game mean his game just started. I mean the game where player will go through tough/challenging content seeking for greatness and rewards.

To begin with FFXI – (pre-abyess-crap)
Once the player ding level 75, he/she have wide range of things to do like going to level new job , farm pop item for bosses with team and so on. Still there is not much thing called useless to do because everything you will do its make sense. For example, farming rare/ex item that you will use in future for multi-jobs so it will save some money. this things will take the player to do for really long time , even if there is more things came. this stuffs still valuable to the play to do and step he have to pass through to the next one.

So far in FFXIV,
Once the Player ding level 50, he/she have something to do is like complete main scenario quest, and farm some gears ( apparently the gears he looted in the quest was great for couple of days until he start farming what is the current stones is available. and in 2.2 .. he will jump from ilv50 > 90 WAY to quick.) and a lot of content just going to easier way with more time of tying and wipes ( didnt hold its value for long time).
so player will jump in no time to current end game within not time and if he lucky enough he will find group that can do it with him ( or go the paying way) and after that. he will have no more intention to play because he reached to last gate .. while he waiting for yoshida to open it for next patch.

i wish if they give us more things to do .. while not changing a lot about them and let them have the same value for the players

guys the game just came 7 months ago give it sometime to breath

at least it didnt follow other MMOs in crazy grinds which its a game by itself

plus we dont want FFXI-2

this -2 -3 etc is 95% crap after trying FFX-2 FFXIII-2 & FFXIII-3

Sir, you apparently are suffering from something we call Stockholm Syndrome, where someone kept captive start sympathizing with their captor. You should seek psychiatric help immediately, for the abuse that FFXI has heaped upon you is far more damaging than you imagine. Also, your grammar and spelling techniques are rather lacking, and thus it would probably be beneficial for you to also seek assistance in this area as well.

All in all, while FFXI was good for its time, its time is in the past. As we step towards a bolder, better future, we will need to shed the shackles of limitations that the past has imposed on us, and stride to the beautiful horizon that is FFXIV.

Indeed. I couldn't have summed that up better myself Jwang :). And it's also unfair to compare FFXI, a game that even in it's US release had over a year's worth of additional content and alterations included with it, plus an expansion pack, with ARR, a game that has only been out for six months, and which had a ton of players already at level 50 at the start (Legacy players), who rushed through content within days to the end and thus burned out accordingly. Some people just need to learn the meaning of the word 'patience'.

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Originally Posted by jwang

Sir, you apparently are suffering from something we call Stockholm Syndrome, where someone kept captive start sympathizing with their captor. You should seek psychiatric help immediately, for the abuse that FFXI has heaped upon you is far more damaging than you imagine. Also, your grammar and spelling techniques are rather lacking, and thus it would probably be beneficial for you to also seek assistance in this area as well.

All in all, while FFXI was good for its time, its time is in the past. As we step towards a bolder, better future, we will need to shed the shackles of limitations that the past has imposed on us, and stride to the beautiful horizon that is FFXIV.

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oh thanks for the advice , i know my English writing skills is not that good because its my 2nd language, but its serve the case.

i just want to play more FFXIV not going to point where i have to go play different games because nothing left that interest me in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Indeed. I couldn't have summed that up better myself Jwang :). And it's also unfair to compare FFXI, a game that even in it's US release had over a year's worth of additional content and alterations included with it, plus an expansion pack, with ARR, a game that has only been out for six months, and which had a ton of players already at level 50 at the start (Legacy players), who rushed through content within days to the end and thus burned out accordingly. Some people just need to learn the meaning of the word 'patience'.

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that is my point , where FFXIV dont show that after 1 year people will still doing old content , they will do the high jump in ilvl and go to last thing in the game because this what its seems like the way they progressing this game.

Well, I can't argue with this logic

Mostly because I have no idea what you're trying to say

Please explain why we should be forced to do old content, outside of "Because it's fun"? Because let me tell you, after the 3rd month farming sky god pop items, I hated that chore. That's right, farming pop items in sky was a CHORE. CHORES are not FUN, and thus should be thoroughly eliminated when discovered. People play this GAME for FUN.

Past content, while a novelty, shouldn't be mandatory. However, if you worry that people are blowing past content, don't worry. Even if you're iLvl120, a Landslide from Titan will put a kibosh in your dreams of raiding coil just as quickly as if you are ilvl55. If you can't pass Titan, you can't access coils 1-5, and if you can't do coils 1-5, you can't do coils 6-9, so on and so forth. Raiding requires COMPETENCE, and those without will either have to pony up cash to buy past Titan (and later, Twintania), or forever gnash their teeth futilely at the wall that is Titan.

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Originally Posted by Crimson-Falcon

guys the game just came 7 months ago give it sometime to breath

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It came out four years ago and has about the same amount of content now as it did then. Unless you count each FATE separately I guess.

I can understand your PoV on this.
But FFXI had a completely different system for everything.

It was a game designed to have a much longer-life to content, and no-one complained about this. At that time people were happy to invest large amounts of time over a long-period to achieve a reward.
Leveling took AGES. Traveling too ages. Dying or failing had a huge cost to time or money. Content arguably lasted a lot longer in general as a rule-of-thumb.


If you sit for 3-4 days you can get from 1-50 in FFXIV.
A week or two at most if you want to take it slowly.


It took the most part a YEAR for most people to get to the cap on launch in FFXI.
It took considerably longer to travel from A > B.
Dying, failing content or forgetting to talk to an NPC could cost you valuable game-time, a detriment you don't have in FFXIV.

The majority of people playing FFXIV:ARR wouldn't accept the time-scale it took to do things in FFXI, there's enough market-data to drown an elephant to back this up. It sadly doesn't appeal to the many FFXI players (Me included) but it's something we have to deal with. Players simply don't have the time, or don't want to spend the time that they did before on an MMO. Especially when offer games reward players much faster with less effort.

FFXIV:ARR didn't want to have to have large time barriers between levels and new content, or have any detriment that would 'annoy' players.
Giving players the ability to play for a short-time each day and still get to the same eventual stage as the rest of the players over time is exactly what Square Enix want.

"But if they don't like it they can play something else then!?

No. This game primarily is here to make money.
Final Fantasy is at the end of the day here to make money. The other arguable details are important, but the product HAS to make money. And the data proves that FFXI-2 currently wouldn't make as much money as what we have now.

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Originally Posted by Gwaeron

It came out four years ago and has about the same amount of content now as it did then. Unless you count each FATE separately I guess.

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You're not being serious, right?
We're considering from ARR's launch.
The development time-scale between 1.0 > 1.23 just simply doesn't count (as no new content was produced for it on a steady basis, except for the few odds and ends to keep players happy).

All their effort went into producing ARR in 2 years and 8 months. To completely rebuild an MMO from scratch in that time with the amount of content that it had was nothing short of amazing.

MMO developments normally take 4-5 years, even with the small foundation ARR had to work-from that's an amazingly condensed time-scale.


So yes, it's completely understandable why we're getting content in batches, and even the content we're getting is coming out rather fast. It just doesn't last long enough if the problem.

Please don't speak for all of us if you keep saying "We don't want FFXI-2". I'd love FFXI-2.

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Originally Posted by Shioban

You're not being serious, right?

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I'm being super serious. I'm sick of everyone saying "it was released 3/4/5/6/7 months ago, just give it some time". ARR was supposed to be what would end "give it time". We gave it time, and ARR is what came out.

I do agree with the OP to some degree. However, it's too soon to compare this game with other MMO's that has been there for years and years. People who'll join FFXIV (for the first time) after 2.2, will have loads of stuff to do. They will probably not do everything before 2.3 comes out. The group that started in 2013 is really being tested, that I have to say. For those who cleared Coil pre 2.1, it has not been the MMO we wanted in my opinion.

This discussion has already been on the forums several times. It's the discussion of vertical vs horizontal MMO progression. This is where I agree with the OP. FFXIV seems to go the vertical way: clear harderst content, wait for next patch, clear hardest content, wait for next patch. I would love a system which allows us to enjoy the game more (content-wise). It goes without saying that the majority just logs on to get the next gear upgrade. Would be fun if you could only get to that point doing loads of stuff instead of clearing one boss...

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Originally Posted by Gwaeron

I'm being super serious. I'm sick of everyone saying "it was released 3/4/5/6/7 months ago, just give it some time". ARR was supposed to be what would end "give it time". We gave it time, and ARR is what came out.

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Content takes time to produce.

All of the content you've seen so far has been pushed out as fast as it can be.

However the problem (Which they've noticed) is that there just simply isn't enough content as well as too little long-term content.


It'll take a long time to fix that. A very long time.

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Originally Posted by Seraphe

Please don't speak for all of us if you keep saying "We don't want FFXI-2". I'd love FFXI-2.

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http://cdn2.hellogiggles.com/wp-cont...ell-office.gif

What I can't understand is why these people are still here/playing/not playing XI if they love it so much. I played XI for years and want this game to be as far from it (system/mechanic/gameplay-wise) as possible.

I can't wait to see all the WoW fans all over the internet when Rapture gets released and it isnt WoW-2.

At least the "XI-2!!!!! Q_Q" players are the extreme vocal minority and will be ignored.

http://parkinglotconfessional.files....pectations.jpg

What bother me the most is not the fact they're adding new content way too quickly, making old content "useless" in no time, but more the fact they are mostly releasing unnecessary contents, seeing how much this game lacks.


Don't get me wrong, all of the content they release has to be released someday, but to be quite honest, they're not doing it right...
Let's start with 2.1 update. They did add new stuff (extremes, ultima HM etc) but...honestly, this kind of content is basically the same models, same skill animations, put in a different order with different damage output...and this, and you can trust me when i say that, even including test times, doesnt take as half as long they took to release it.

Now, let's see what else they released...

Housing...and for FCs only, ontop of that.

Why would you release something as..."secondary" as housing when your game has an utter lack of content? As far as i'm concerned, this system, as it was released, and even as it will be on 2.2, doesnt provide any interesting content, regardless of the level of the player. It's just some roleplay crap that they decided to put there. Again, i dont say it was a bad idea to add it, but in my opinion, it just wasnt necessary to take so much time to do it...so early.

Now, on to 2.2

They're adding 3 "new" dungeons.

Brayflox HM, Halatali HM and The lost city of Amdapor.

At last, this could've been optional endgame content there, something to do when you're done with coil and burned through the extreme primals! (Which is litterally 4h in a week if you have a static) but..nope...they stated it'd be ilv55..

What's the point? what is the goddamn point of adding more dungeons with the exact same difficulty as WP, AK, haukke HM, copperbell HM and pharos? They had the level, the monster models, the skills, so why dint they even bother even re-taking old gear models and smack a ilv95 on it or something and call it the new optional dungeons to get a "step" gear to get on harder content? I know they want to use the actual myth/coil1 gear to serve that purpose, but hey, only give 1 chest and separate the sets in the 3 different dungeons, or even add a 1h cooldown on it and be done with it.

Instead of that, they litterally wasted 3 more potentiel interesting dungeons (I personally wont even bother going in them, like i did for Pharos, unless it's necessary for levi access)
and repeated the same loop that is currently in place right now, replacing them with new graphics. Coil 1 becomes coil 2, leviathan extreme will either replace or add to the currently existing 3 extreme, thornmarch extreme replaces thornmarch hard, Coil 1 replace crystal tower, and the 3 new dungeons are more likely the new WP/AK/haukke/whatever.

They also added new crafts. These crafts are litterally already existing gear's model that can be dyed. Cool. They'll probably have their cost, just like ilv70 HQ gear did at the beginning. Then they'll process adding the mats in an easy yet useless content like treasure hunting, then we'll be back exactly to the point we are at right now.

Trust me, i want to believe in this game, but as far as i can tell, they're looking to make the same loop repeat again and again. This doesnt sound right to me, considering for an AVERAGE player, there isnt even 4h of content per week. For a casual, and i'm not saying this randomly as i did go casual with this game recently, it doesnt take more then 3 days to get at least coil T1-T4 done, myth capped, extremes weekly done and CT item obtained.

Now, i'm not gonna say they need to make FFXI-2, even tho it'd be pretty fucking awesome. No. But could they *at least* care about players that want to challenge themselves in hard endgame content? Or even, care about players that dont want to spend 12€/month to litterally *PLAY* only 4 days/month? And i'm talking about active time here, not about "afk in the capitol watching random videos on youtube/twitch cause there's nothing else to do".

I'm really not sure what you're saying. It seems like you've run out of stuff to do?

A) maybe don't burn through a new mmo before there's more stuff to do or
B) you want more optional horisontal progression which I don't argue with but even that needs a lot of time to happen.

That's not what i'm saying. I'm just saying that the content is here, but poorly used.

Adding content that has the exact same purpose as another optional content has litterally no point.

Also, adding content that cant be used by the major part of the players and who, ontop of that, has no real use, is even more pointless.

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Originally Posted by Youmadesca

That's not what i'm saying. I'm just saying that the content is here, but poorly used.

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Then for the sake of argument, what would you rather each patch do different, as opposed to now?

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Originally Posted by TheUltimate3

Then for the sake of argument, what would you rather each patch do different, as opposed to now?

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=>

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They had the level, the monster models, the skills, so why dint they even bother even re-taking old gear models and smack a ilv95 on it or something and call it the new optional dungeons to get a "step" gear to get on harder content? I know they want to use the actual myth/coil1 gear to serve that purpose, but hey, only give 1 chest and separate the sets in the 3 different dungeons, or even add a 1h cooldown on it and be done with it.

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And hey, actually, i'll even give more suggestions. Instead of making the treasure hunt system boring and virtually limited like the rest of the game (1 map every 18h, 5 minutes limitation to do it) why not use the chocograph system of FFIX, and actually use your chocobo for something other then FATE grind?

Level up the beak of your chocobo by digging in the overworld, sometime finding a chocograph, and make the chocograph's chest reward more and more appealing as the beak level of your chocobo get higher. Basically, keep the same system, but change the way the map is obtained and add a reward scale to it.

It would actually have given another optional side thing to do, for both hardcore and casual players, with an actual point.

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Originally Posted by Youmadesca

And hey, actually, i'll even give more suggestions. Instead of making the treasure hunt system boring and virtually limited like the rest of the game (1 map every 18h, 5 minutes limitation to do it) why not use the chocograph system of FFIX, and actually use your chocobo for something other then FATE grind?

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Yes please! I like you.

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Originally Posted by Youmadesca

-Snip-

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(Argument Sake)

So release three dungeon with recycled rewards with a 1 hour cooldown and change the treasure map feature, as opposed or along side completely new content?

The treasure map thing in particular wouldn't apply to hardcores unless it was mindnumbilingly difficult, time consuming, and provided a clear "no one else" uniqueness to it, and it wouldn't apply to casuals if it was mindbogglingly difficult and time consuming.

I'm talking about already provided content, because i can't read the future and know what they'll release. I can only judge what they already released.

I'm not saying they should rework already given content, but actually work them more before releasing them. These 3 dungeons could've been a cool addition and give something to do outside of the given endgame (Coil, primals, etc), without adding a virtual limitation to it.

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Originally Posted by Youmadesca

I'm not saying they should rework already given content, but actually work them more before releasing them.

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(Argument Sake)

And that is the main issue, which is something SE can't fix no matter how much they try. This game was released about 2 and half years early. Most of the stuff they are adding now should have been included when the game launched, but with a 2 year development cycle of course that crap wasn't going to happen. And they can't simply hold on to stuff for two long because people already get anal about the three month cycle on content.

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Originally Posted by Gwaeron

It came out four years ago and has about the same amount of content now as it did then. Unless you count each FATE separately I guess.

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Do you mean contents in all or just endgame contents people did to make the character better?
For endgame content there was Aurun Vale, Cutters Cry and the relict weapon questline. Everything else people did for fun, because the other contents didn't make your character better.
And now look what content have ARR. i think in ARR is a lot more.

All what ARR still need is contents for fun (faction leves, chocobo caravan) and not for endgame gear/tomes/BiS

probably said before ..... but FFXI is a tiny bit older, and even pre abyssea it was already old.

those saying "Durrr FFXIV IS FOUR YEARS OLD AND HAS SAME CONTENT" and similar.
So 1.0 had Titan, Coil, Crystal Tower, Ultima HM? Beastmen Tribe Quests?
Story is a different one.

Expecting a 6-7 month old game to have the same amount as a Game that has several big addons several small add ons and also some "medium" add ons is .... ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by TheUltimate3

(Argument Sake)

And that is the main issue, which is something SE can't fix no matter how much they try. This game was released about 2 and half years early. Most of the stuff they are adding now should have been included when the game launched, but with a 2 year development cycle of course that crap wasn't going to happen. And they can't simply hold on to stuff for two long because people already get anal about the three month cycle on content.

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Indeed, they have little to no time to provide content, because the game was released way too early and the community way too strong, i do agree with that.

Except what i described so far wouldnt take them more time to do, and that's the whoooole point of the post i made.

You see, instead of wasting time on housing, they couldve actually worked on the actual content that matters. Ontop of that, instead of adding dungeons that have the exact same purpose and rewards as already existing dungeons, they couldve used these dungeons for something else. See what i'm saying there?

They are just plain wasting time releasing badly designed content, and they have no excuse to that. I hardly see how adding FC housing and dungeons that drops the same ole' hoplite gear help either the casuals or the hardcore. And it wasnt necessary to the game, neither.

i just Wish if they just add something that so hard and take at least 6 month to be completed ..

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Originally Posted by Quiz

http://cdn2.hellogiggles.com/wp-cont...ell-office.gif

What I can't understand is why these people are still here/playing/not playing XI if they love it so much. I played XI for years and want this game to be as far from it (system/mechanic/gameplay-wise) as possible.

I can't wait to see all the WoW fans all over the internet when Rapture gets released and it isnt WoW-2.

At least the "XI-2!!!!! Q_Q" players are the extreme vocal minority and will be ignored.

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The thing I find interesting about XI-HD/XI-2 hopefuls is this... Generally speaking they are what I like to call Abyssea-refugees. Do these people not realize that an XI-HD remake would just be a graphically enhanced version of the game they already claim is "not the same game they loved anymore" or that an XI-2 would build on the foundation of what it is NOW, not on their even interaly contentious point of XI's "heyday"?

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Originally Posted by Youmadesca

-Snip-

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(Still Argument Sake)

But the thing with things like housing and the vanity system, was that people were begging, and demanding that content. There are a lot of people where housing and looking nice is far more important than another dungeon run.

you mean where it take two-three months to cap level on one job than level sub to 37
and gears that we have from sea was still best gear in game when I log back after 3-4years?

I agree with the OP, there needs to be more to do besides running the same few dungeons over and over again.

But, this game /is/ new(ish), more content is coming... I just hope the devs give us more of a variety of things to do besides linear instanced dungeons.

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Originally Posted by TheUltimate3

(Still Argument Sake)

But the thing with things like housing and the vanity system, was that people were begging, and demanding that content. There are a lot of people where housing and looking nice is far more important than another dungeon run.

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i would be happy for housing if its was personal. because FC housing sort of .. general depend if u in rank of the FC you currently in can design or do something to house and if they agree with it. if its was personal at least i'll do something after finishing that content by doing my own house not FC house where like 213423343 members in one FC.

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Originally Posted by Lumia

I agree with the OP, there needs to be more to do besides running the same few dungeons over and over again.

But, this game /is/ new(ish), more content is coming... I just hope the devs give us more of a variety of things to do besides linear instanced dungeons.

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in FFXI which op want -> running same dungeon for what?
4-5 years?
(looking at Sky, Sea...etc)

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Originally Posted by Greed

in FFXI which op want -> running same dungeon for what?
4-5 years?
(looking at Sky, Sea...etc)

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in FFXI .. doing Sky took long time .. so people cant like spam it as much as we can nowadays i wont like to you .. once WP got buffed with big amount of mythology .. i leveled / geared paladin .. so i can spam it .. i manage to spam it like 40+ daily .. till the point where its hit me .. nothing left .. but coil .. i love to have more .. solo content or at least small group content that dont need big organizing

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Originally Posted by Gwaeron

It came out four years ago and has about the same amount of content now as it did then. Unless you count each FATE separately I guess.

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If you exclude dailies, primals, story missions, binding coil raids, Crystal Tower, housing, chocobo companions, treasure hunts, new classes/jobs, and about 40 other things, then yah I guess it has the same content it used to. (

Making a post on forums barely serves a point, anyway. Most of peoples dont even go through all of the post, and only read OP and the last post to reply.

If, instead of asking pointless questions such as "So basically, you want FFXI-2? LOLZ" or saying things such as "Hey you, speak proper engrish before making a post huehuehue" and "The game is new, give it more time, [...]" along with beating up other MMOs stating that copying any ideas is a no-go, peoples were actually pointing out what's wrong and what's not, adding proper argument on how to make the game better, then maybe the dev team would even bother listening the community.

Let's be honest here. I see alot of peoples posting about how the game is alright and it just needs some time. To these peoples, isnt here something you dont quite like in the game? something you'd like to see being added? an orientation regarding something you'd like to see a bit different?

When i see post such as

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What I can't understand is why these people are still here/playing/not playing XI if they love it so much. I played XI for years and want this game to be as far from it (system/mechanic/gameplay-wise) as possible.

I can't wait to see all the WoW fans all over the internet when Rapture gets released and it isnt WoW-2.

At least the "XI-2!!!!! Q_Q" players are the extreme vocal minority and will be ignored.

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It saddens me. Cause you're completly missing the point of the post that have been made, and you're just instantly making it worthless. Instead of that, take the post point-by-point, answer giving your opinion, then alternative to make it more enjoyable in your opinion.

And to be quite honest, if you dont want to "take the time" answering a post properly to make things progress, then dont even answer at all. Nobody is interested by your bragging about how much you think this guy is wrong and you have a cool pic/gif to show.

That being said...

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But the thing with things like housing and the vanity system, was that people were begging, and demanding that content. There are a lot of people where housing and looking nice is far more important than another dungeon run.

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Then they should've used small sized houses for personal housing, and mansions for FC housing. This way, it would've interested way more peoples, way quicker.
As for Glamours system, i never said anything against that. i'm pretty impatient to see it (as you can see on my Lodestone profile, i already have my skin ready), even tho i find it a bit too complicated/uncomplete for what it is.

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Originally Posted by Youmadesca

-snip-

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For the record, I actually agree with you on most points. I like the useless things though. I would much prefer housing as say another dungeon. Yes I'm weird, but my greatest ambition in any MMO is to make a store so yeah, clearly playing the wrong game and clearly my priorities are good. And I don't consider most of what they do to be "incomplete", they are just designed that way, for better or for worse.

I just like to get people to argue their points, and continue arguing them under questioning. That's provides better content then say "Say whatever is popular and get me the most Upvotes, that means people agree with me!".