Separate point allocation for smn and sch[pls][pls respond]

pls there is no reason for this ; -;

Yes there is, Summoner is a dps class, and Scholar is a Healing class. They need different gear, attributes, and everything.

So you main as one.. Summoner or Scholar, you don't main as both.

What's going to happen when they introduce the 2nd roles for the other jobs???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hiroradius

Yes there is, Summoner is a dps class, and Scholar is a Healing class. They need different gear, attributes, and everything.

So you main as one.. Summoner or Scholar, you don't main as both.

What's going to happen when they introduce the 2nd roles for the other jobs???

---

And despite that the game lets you change classes/jobs freely. The idea of maining with only one goes against the very core game concept of being able to play all jobs on a single character.

This speaks nothing of the fact that the bonus point system is worthless and only hinders future jobs. Honestly I expect the devs to either do away with it eventually or change it so each job has it's own allotment. Either way it's a worthless relic from 1.0 they haven't bothered to remove yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaonis

And despite that the game lets you change classes/jobs freely. The idea of maining with only one goes against the very core game concept of being able to play all jobs on a single character.

This speaks nothing of the fact that the bonus point system is worthless and only hinders future jobs. Honestly I expect the devs to either do away with it eventually or change it so each job has it's own allotment. Either way it's a worthless relic from 1.0 they haven't bothered to remove yet.

---

Developers specifically said you aren't supposed to play both. Its a choice. You play as one or the other, even if you are allowed to use them all, you have to pick which one you want over the others. The same thing will happen with other classes when they get their second jobs. You will be forced to choose one job over the other. It works as designed and as intended. They won't throw it away so easily.

I main as a hybrid, so I do play both Summoner and Scholar. It is very much possible to play as a Scholar with 0 bonus MND. I have partnered up with Scholars with this build who Main as Scholars. Their heals are well balanced and the Crit rate build that they use out does the slightly lower than average heals they produce which is more beneficial for them than straight healing with no criticals.

Quote:

---

Developers specifically said you aren't supposed to play both

---

citation needed

ps this is retarded

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaonis

And despite that the game lets you change classes/jobs freely. The idea of maining with only one goes against the very core game concept of being able to play all jobs on a single character.

This speaks nothing of the fact that the bonus point system is worthless and only hinders future jobs. Honestly I expect the devs to either do away with it eventually or change it so each job has it's own allotment. Either way it's a worthless relic from 1.0 they haven't bothered to remove yet.

---

Actually you are wrong. The game does NOT let you change jobs freely, only classes. You can change your class from Archer to Puglist, but you do NOT change your job. Job's are special additions to the class.

So the way the class system works since people don't get it.

You are an Arcanist with a soul of a previous Summoner or Scholar attached to you. You GAIN the ability to be a Summoner of lore or a Scholar of lore from this, but in the current day of Final Fantasy 14, these classes are lost.

You are a Gladiator who equips and gains the abilities from a Paladin of the past from the soul crystal, but you are NOT a paladin.

Take off the soul crystal then suddenly guess what??? The ability points MATTER.

The ability points do NOT hinder new future jobs, because you have to choose one or the other. If you want to switch, you buy the potion that let's you reset your ability points, then if you want to switch again, you buy another potion.. after a while you run out of seals then need to go farm/grind seals.

The only way a job can have it's own allotment is if the base class, what you actually are, is different. You level as an Arcanist, you level as a Gladiator, you level as a Lancer, you do NOT level as a summoner, or dragoon.. Again you gain that soul crystal of a lost class to gain it's abilities, you are STILL the base class.

This is the design. This is how the game works, this is how the game is played. Stop trying to break the system because you have to waste time gathering seals to buy a potion because you can't decide if you want to be summoner or scholar.

Because its the same class (arcanist) and you get points for the classes, not the jobs.
Its a matter of time before other classes will have to deal with the same once new jobs come out.

Wow...Scholar is about to get a huge upgrade with all the new Crit gear

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Assirra

Because its the same class (arcanist) and you get points for the classes, not the jobs.
Its a matter of time before other classes will have to deal with the same once new jobs come out.

---

Im not sure how this excuses it for being a retarded system?

I think the SE has been giving in to the min/maxer feel of things.

In 1.18ish, the stat allocation was separated between classes, rather than players deciding if they wanted to have tank stats, caster stats, gathering stats, etc. If SE is going to allow for individual jobs to allocate stats, I would rather they just take away allocation altogether.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MathewZilla

Im not sure how this excuses it for being a retarded system?

---

You keep calling it a retarded system just because you dislike it even tough it makes perfectly sense.
again, you get points for classes, not jobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Assirra

You keep calling it a retarded system just because you dislike it even tough it makes perfectly sense.
again, you get points for classes, not jobs.

---

It makes sense for all classes/jobs EXCEPT ACN/SMN/SCH. No other class/job has to deal with that. Honestly, stat allocations should all just be removed and be accounted for in the grand balance of everything. Everyone dumps them into their main stat anyway. Saying otherwise is arguing to argue because if you dont dump them all into your main stat all you're doing is gimping yourself or trying to do threshold testing for parry/block lol. Look up WoW pre-MoP talent trees for reference, same concept.

You get the illusion of choice but in the end everyone picks the exact same thing so they might as well not exist. Stat allocations for this game in the current game design only give an ILLUSION OF CHOICE, to perform optimally there is absolutely NO CHOICE. Even when other classes get multiple jobs, that doesnt make it any more of a CHOICE or any less of a pointless system.

Semi OT: To be 100% honest, I was hoping they'd scrap the armory system for ARR (along with stat allocation) or at least keep the name and change it to the point of it being unrecognizable. The current armory system seems restrictive as far as developer creativity and ingenuity.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZeratoTyrael

...

---

All classes will have to deal with this when their second jobs are added in as well. Its not stupid or retarded.

The Scholar is in no way hindered by the sharing. The other class's second jobs would have way more trouble dealing with the split than the SMN/SCH ever will since SCH doesn't need the MND bonus stats to be effective as a healer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XanderOlivieri

All classes will have to deal with this when their second jobs are added in as well. Its not stupid or retarded.

The Scholar is in no way hindered by the sharing. The other class's second jobs would have way more trouble dealing with the split than the SMN/SCH ever will since SCH doesn't need the MND bonus stats to be effective as a healer.

---

First off I never said it was stupid or retarded....so please reread where I said "....pointless system". Nowhere does that say "stupid" or "retarded". SCH is indeed hindered by the sharing of stat allocation points. MND is just as important for them as INT is for SMN. A few extra HPS can save the day just as well as a few extra DPS, if you can't see that then I don't know what to say. I'd almost say its MORE important in some cases as there are (under normal circumstances) 2 healers and 4 DDs. If stat allocations persist then I'd argue that each JOB have separate totals, at least until all other classes get 2 jobs. How anyone thinks the current system is "reasonable" or "works just fine" is beyond me. If ACN -> SMN/SCH is currently an exception then its needs to be the exception in all regards. Not gimped because its different from everything else or at least be able to reallocate the points easily enough to where it doesn't matter as the current means to do that is restricting

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ZeratoTyrael

.....

---

No SCH isn't hindered by lack of bonus Mind. I and other SCH heal just fine without the bonus. We don't need it for high end dungeons unlike WHMs. As for the retarded post, I quoted you because you were next down the quote line. I made an assumption that you were responding to something someone quoted you for. All the new Crit gear we get is for Scholars overall cause we benefit greatly for it. With the way our core healing skills are we don't need Mind as much as Crit and Det. Mind will raise the potential value, but our Galvanize requires Crit Damage to give a real effect. Our Fairy makes up for the lower MND. Seing as Det increases the amount you restore. Det and Crit rate are more important to a SCH.

There isn't anything wrong with how it is and it plays well with the core healing mechanic that SCHs use. We aren't WHM and have a different healing gimmick from them. The way it is currently works. Its not a restriction on the class, it doesn't short the class in any way. If you feel that hindered by it you're playing the wrong class. You're complaint is against the core tactic of the class. If that's what you complain about, play a different class. Its pretty simple. Don't even have to change characters. Switch to a WHM, you can keep your gear minus weapon and play with a MND healing set.

The easiest way I can sum it up, don't try to change a class just because you can't play it effectively. Change your class to see what you can play effectively. The only thing keeping me from being an optimal healer is I lack cross class skills. Other than those two specific skills, I heal exceptionally well with a SCH. I'm not good at the straight healing that WHM does, but I do well healing with Damage mitigation. I can throw up a miniature Stone Skin with each healing and catch up anything that I don't initially cover as well as place at least one or two buffs on my target. I don't need bonus MND because I can use the Class as its supposed to be used. MP glutton as it is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hiroradius

So the way the class system works since people don't get it.

You are an Arcanist with a soul of a previous Summoner or Scholar attached to you. You GAIN the ability to be a Summoner of lore or a Scholar of lore from this, but in the current day of Final Fantasy 14, these classes are lost.

You are a Gladiator who equips and gains the abilities from a Paladin of the past from the soul crystal, but you are NOT a paladin.

The only way a job can have it's own allotment is if the base class, what you actually are, is different. You level as an Arcanist, you level as a Gladiator, you level as a Lancer, you do NOT level as a summoner, or dragoon.. Again you gain that soul crystal of a lost class to gain it's abilities, you are STILL the base class.

This is the design. This is how the game works, this is how the game is played.

---

this is the best explanation on this ever

I play a lot of smn, and also do some scholar.

I have all my points in Intelligence, and it does gimp my scholar a bit. but not to a point where it's unplayable.

I've healed t5 plenty as a scholar with all points in int XD. just don't tell my tank

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by XanderOlivieri

trl;dr Crit/Det > Mind

---

Which would be a lie.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hiroradius

Actually you are wrong. The game does NOT let you change jobs freely, only classes. You can change your class from Archer to Puglist, but you do NOT change your job. Job's are special additions to the class.

So the way the class system works since people don't get it.

You are an Arcanist with a soul of a previous Summoner or Scholar attached to you. You GAIN the ability to be a Summoner of lore or a Scholar of lore from this, but in the current day of Final Fantasy 14, these classes are lost.
You are a Gladiator who equips and gains the abilities from a Paladin of the past from the soul crystal, but you are NOT a paladin.

Take off the soul crystal then suddenly guess what??? The ability points MATTER.

The ability points do NOT hinder new future jobs, because you have to choose one or the other. If you want to switch, you buy the potion that let's you reset your ability points, then if you want to switch again, you buy another potion.. after a while you run out of seals then need to go farm/grind seals.

The only way a job can have it's own allotment is if the base class, what you actually are, is different. You level as an Arcanist, you level as a Gladiator, you level as a Lancer, you do NOT level as a summoner, or dragoon.. Again you gain that soul crystal of a lost class to gain it's abilities, you are STILL the base class.

This is the design. This is how the game works, this is how the game is played. Stop trying to break the system because you have to waste time gathering seals to buy a potion because you can't decide if you want to be summoner or scholar.

---

The issue with that is....everyone already knows this. Just because that's how it CURRENTLY works, doesn't mean people shouldn't question it. Only ONE CLASS has to actually make a choice currently for their JOBS. You have to expect the concern to arise with some people who play both JOBS. The real issue with the whole is ordeal is (where I bolded and underlined the quote) NO ONE PLAYS AS CLASSES AFTER 30. Yes you play as a class in the technical sense but more specifically you play a JOB, hence they are the only things that matter once you're 30+.

If classes actually mattered for DoW/M after 30 I doubt there would be as much yammering about it, but as of right now the only classes you truly play after 30 are DoH/L. Yes we all know the technicality of "playing" as a GLD, MRD, CNJ, etc., but in everyday reality we're playing as JOBS. Have SE make CLASSES more important and actually have a point to still exist after 30 and just maybe all the QQing will stop, but as of right now classes may as well not exist after its jobs are unlocked (the ONLY defense to that rule is some MRD pvp builds and thats funny considering the current state of lolpvp in ARR)

summary of my post: Make classes count for something or remove them. Just give them a purpose outside of essentially trying to keep the legacy system called the armory. I'm sure that's a good compromise and innovative to boot!

Just because Arcanist is the only class that has to make this choice currently doesn't mean anything. Eventually everyone will have to make these choices, and perhaps even a third choice if they offer 3 jobs on some classes.

Just buckle down and get used to it or stock up on Hymns. I highly doubt you're both doing SMN and SCH in Coil, and no other content is hard enough for 30 stat to matter.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Madoka

no other content is hard enough for 30 stat to matter.

---

so true, if -30 stat of int or mind really messed your DPR or healing, you really need to learn how to play again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hiroradius

...

---

btw this face is so chinese XD just looks like my father

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hiroradius

So the way the class system works since people don't get it. -snip-

---

Responses like this just baffle me. By the same logic, since everything in this world is how it is for a reason, no one should speak out about anything or want them to be different. It can make perfect sense by lore, it doesn't mean people have to like the game system or hope for change.

To me the addition of the job system in 1.0 just felt like a band-aid fix to breathe FF life into the weird-named classes they first gave us. That and the arbitrary stat allocation systems stayed with us in 2.0. It might be too late to change them, it might not. If it isn't it would likely happen in an expansion.

What I want, is for jobs to have more MEANINGFUL decisions that are confined to THAT job. Stats as they are now are just arbitrary because almost everyone just wants their primary stat. That isn't an interesting game system. All it does it penalize you when you want to play a DIFFERENT job for whatever class has multiple.

Whether stats are allocated to the "class" is irrelevant since no one plays without jobs, and all stat decisions are based on those jobs. To me these game systems are just archaic remnants of 1.0 that don't provide interesting gameplay choices, and don't make good (fun) design sense in a game that's meant to let you switch roles freely.