Please consider a time penalty for withdrawing from the duty finder!

The amount of time wasted waiting for the duty finder to find actual players who are committed to their chosen dungeon is getting way out of hand!
I counted 35 withdraws yesterday alone for CT.
SE, please consider a time penalty similar to the one you get when you quit an in progress dungeon for leaving the df. I believe this would discourage trolls and the waiting period.

Yes! And before people say that this would punish people who are withdrawing for legitimate reasons: it wouldn't. If you're withdrawing from DF because you suddenly don't have time to do a dungeon for whatever reason, you will be away anyway, so the timer won't affect you (I will say that this shouldn't be a whole 30 mins, probably).

So withdrawing from a dungeon queue because I'm in the middle of a levequest, and accepting said dungeon queue will cause me to fail the quest and require me to use an additional allowance is "not a legitimate reason"?

So you're telling me that I'm only allowed to Craft, Gather, or Farm fates/mobs while waiting for dungeon queues?

Yeah lock the tanks and healers out like there's not a shortage already

Great plan!!!

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Originally Posted by IAmPotent

So withdrawing from a dungeon queue because I'm in the middle of a levequest, and accepting said dungeon queue will cause me to fail the quest and require me to use an additional allowance is "not a legitimate reason"?

So you're telling me that I'm only allowed to Craft, Gather, or Farm fates/mobs while waiting for dungeon queues?

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If we were to lessen the wait times, you wouldn't have to do other things while waiting...

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Originally Posted by Ddmk

Yeah lock the tanks and healers out like there's not a shortage already

Great plan!!!

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Those players were never joining anyways so let the one's who are present and hitting the join button play...

Sorry I don't see it poor plan plain and simple

not a poor plan at all. 5 minute lockout to finish what your doing would be fine. You accepted the responsibility of knowing that the DF can pop at any time. that is your fault and yours alone for queuing. If you wanna do a leve in-between df go ahead, the exp from the dungeon far outweighs any single leve so i dont know why you would be mad at losing one single leve. And the tanks and healers that join then leave obviously did not want to do the dungeon anyways so you are in no way making them not join up again. And as far as accidents go they can always make it 1 leave within 1 hour = no penalty. 2 leaves within 1 hour = 5 min, 3 = 15 and so on. its rather simple if you think about it.

it is very annoying when DF keeps prompting me to [ok] then displays someone has canceled in half second with more than 10 times in a minute, I think some changes should be made to prevent this.

Players need to be able to withdraw once or twice without penalty, there's hundreds of legitimate reasons why. However, I would be in favor of a penalty if you withdraw a certain number of times within a short span of time. Such as a lockout if you withdraw four times within one minute. I can't think of many scenarios whereas a player would be doing it that frequently and quickly for any other reason than trying to manipulate the system or troll party mates.

No. People change their minds and decide they can't commit to the content. They should only be punished for leaving once they are actually IN the instance.

Punishing them for withdrawing defeats the entire point of the confirmation prompt.

Realize that this is a feature working as intended.

No, please no.

People withdraw for all sorts of reasons.
I think the penalty for leaving the actual dungeon once its begun is justified.

For CT, there needs to be a time penalty, if you want to craft etc... don't que for a raid. Tanks and healers waiting thru the entire countdown timer, only to withdrawal, and do it over again, it's getting silly, today alone we had a 33 withdrawal ct, which no 1 can argue is a bit ridiculous, after 2 withdrawals from it, u should be assessed a 5min timer before u can que again. Will start to cut down on the ridiculous amount of trolling that goes on, and honestly, if you disagree with this, you're more than likely guilty...just sayin'.

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Originally Posted by Faiyez

No. People change their minds and decide they can't commit to the content. They should only be punished for leaving once they are actually IN the instance.

Punishing them for withdrawing defeats the entire point of the confirmation prompt.

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Nobody is talking about adding a penalty in that case. They're just talking about adding a rule that says you cannot queue again for a while, which is NOT a penalty if you don't even want to queue again for a while anyway. In cases where someone, as you yourself said, "can't commit to the content", then there's no punishment involved.

It might be ok to allow a single withdrawal just in the case of an accidental mis-click, but if your reason for withdrawing is anything else besides an accidental mis-click, then you're not going to be doing the content anyway. The only people who would even want to queue again right away after deliberately withdrawing are those who are abusing the system and griefing other players. Those are the only people who would be punished by this rule.

So, one withdraw should give no penalty, but if someone withdraws twice within 15 minutes, make them wait 15 or 20 minutes before they can queue again. That doesn't penalize any legitimate use of the system. It only affects the griefers (and hopefully should be enough to stop them).

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Originally Posted by Toastup

For CT, there needs to be a time penalty, if you want to craft etc... don't que for a raid. Tanks and healers waiting thru the entire countdown timer, only to withdrawal, and do it over again, it's getting silly, today alone we had a 33 withdrawal ct, which no 1 can argue is a bit ridiculous, after 2 withdrawals from it, u should be assessed a 5min timer before u can que again. Will start to cut down on the ridiculous amount of trolling that goes on, and honestly, if you disagree with this, you're more than likely guilty...just sayin'.

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I don't know man, waiting foe the queue as a DPS alone gives me enough time to level up. Seems kinda stupid to say don't do anything while queueing. The electricity bill doesn't pay itself

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Originally Posted by Raestloz

I don't know man, waiting foe the queue as a DPS alone gives me enough time to level up. Seems kinda stupid to say don't do anything while queueing. The electricity bill doesn't pay itself

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Of course you can still do other things while queuing. Just stop doing them once the queue pops. If you're going to queue for a duty, then you need to give that duty priority over those other activities you do while you wait for it. As soon as it comes up you leave whatever else you were doing and run the duty that you queued for.

If something's too important to leave in the middle, then it's not suitable for filling that queue-waiting time. That still leaves quests, FATEs, hunting log, leves, and most crafting as suitable activities while you wait. (About the only thing I can think of that's not suitable is some of the more involved high-level crafting processes using rare hard-to-obtain items. If you want to craft, use the queue-waiting time to churn out a bunch of basic materials, and save the more involved and difficult crafting for some other time that you're not in queue.)

If by the time it pops you've changed your mind and want to give priority to some other activity and no longer want to run the dungeon now, well, that's fine too. But in that case, you're deciding you don't want to be in the queue, so not being able to queue again immediately doesn't affect you.

The queue in and out is really annoying. If a person withdraws once then there should be no penalty. If you do it twice in under 10 mins then it's fair to instill a 10 minute penalty. This way you don't punish those that have to back out for legitimate reasons.

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Originally Posted by IAmPotent

So withdrawing from a dungeon queue because I'm in the middle of a levequest, and accepting said dungeon queue will cause me to fail the quest and require me to use an additional allowance is "not a legitimate reason"?

So you're telling me that I'm only allowed to Craft, Gather, or Farm fates/mobs while waiting for dungeon queues?

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DF gives you 45 seconds to respond, within that time it is easy to finish your craft or node, switch to the job you queued on and accept.
If you have just started a synth and haven't done any action on it yet you can cancel it without losing materials.
Same for mob farming, plenty of time to kill your mob and accept, Fates can be abandoned without penalty and while the LEVE argument is valid, you can decide to not do them while waiting for the DF to come up if allowance is that precious.

What needs to happen, is if one or two people drop out of...say CT...it needs to put us in anyways, allow us to kill trash with 20-22, continue looking while we clear the place.
You know, how every other MMO handles it.

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Originally Posted by Ddmk

Sorry I don't see it poor plan plain and simple

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See this:

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Originally Posted by Mychael

http://s30.postimg.org/c1u08lutr/partymember.png

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I'd say a lockout that increases with the number of withdraws in a rolling 30 minute period:
1st: No lockout
2nd: 5m
3rd: 10m
4th: 30m

i haven't read through the thread so i don't know if someone already suggested this. i just thought of a very simple solution for this problem: just don't show whether you join a dungeon in progress or not. if you've checked the box you know that you can join a game in progress so no need to tell you right before joining. it's so easy that i really have to wonder why the devs haven't thought of that yet. unless i've overlooked something of course. if there is some problem with my suggestion the other solution would be to make an extra queue for those who only want to join a duty in progress.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

Of course you can still do other things while queuing. Just stop doing them once the queue pops. If you're going to queue for a duty, then you need to give that duty priority over those other activities you do while you wait for it. As soon as it comes up you leave whatever else you were doing and run the duty that you queued for.

If something's too important to leave in the middle, then it's not suitable for filling that queue-waiting time. That still leaves quests, FATEs, hunting log, leves, and most crafting as suitable activities while you wait. (About the only thing I can think of that's not suitable is some of the more involved high-level crafting processes using rare hard-to-obtain items. If you want to craft, use the queue-waiting time to churn out a bunch of basic materials, and save the more involved and difficult crafting for some other time that you're not in queue.)

If by the time it pops you've changed your mind and want to give priority to some other activity and no longer want to run the dungeon now, well, that's fine too. But in that case, you're deciding you don't want to be in the queue, so not being able to queue again immediately doesn't affect you.

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I honestly actually don't see the issue. If I somehow missed the Commence, I'll be re-queued immediately. If I withdraw, I won't be queued. Unless your formed party is missing exactly one member from GO and I'm the only one queuing, someone else, probably will "commit" to it, will fill my position. If I am indeed the last member you need, then your party is at my mercy, not the other way around.

What, exactly, does punishing me, the guy you'll most likely won't see again (and indeed, won't even know about until the party actually goes to the dungeon) will achieve?

Someone withdrawing in and out is annoying, but you don't fight pirates with SecuROM. You're trying to hit a nail with a cannonball. The legitimate players who didn't intend to grief you will be hit, while the griefers won't convert to a life of Enlightenment when they see his mechanism. Anybody here ever accidentally choose the wrong dungeon?

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Originally Posted by Raestloz

I honestly actually don't see the issue.

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Then you're either extremely lucky or never have queued up as DPS or for CT. Try to re-read the posts above ...

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Originally Posted by Raestloz

The legitimate players who didn't intend to grief you will be hit

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Would you mind elaborating HOW exactly the legimite players will be hit? What legimit player re-queues 20 - 50 times in 2 minutes to DF?? The suggestion here is to have no (or very low - lets say 1 - 3 minutes) penalty after first withdraw which should accomodate for any IRL as well as ingame reasons for withdraw and every consequent one for more - so for example 2, 5, 10, 30 minutes. This will STOP forever all the sleazy bastards trying to parasite on the backs of other players with zero impact on the regular players.

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Originally Posted by Raestloz

while the griefers won't convert to a life of Enlightenment when they see his mechanism.

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Who cares what they'll convert or not to as long as they'll stop actually GRIEVING us?

I'm sorry to say so but I feel that those who opose this are mainly those who missuse the system or never queued for CT or as DPS. Having the gradually increasing penalty will not affect the regular players, it will actually benefit them as those who now need to wait 30 - 60 minutes to get in will be not constantly interrupted by DF pop-ups just to be cancelled few seconds after.

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Originally Posted by Raestloz

The legitimate players who didn't intend to grief you will be hit

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Can you (or anyone) give a single possible way in which a legitimate player could be hit by this? Because so far nobody else has. All anyone has come up with is to say that real-life issues could come up and they don't want to be penalized if they decide they don't have time to run the dungeon right now. But the only affect being suggested is that if they withdraw then they wouldn't be able to run the dungeon right now. In other words, they're only being given what they say they want, and nobody has pointed out any way in which that could count as being "penalized".

If this proposal were enacted, I can see only four possibilities of what could happen:

1. The queue pops and you're ready to run the dungeon. You accept and go run it. There's no withdrawing in this case, so the proposed change doesn't come into play. You're not penalized.
2. The queue pops and you're legitimately not ready to run the dungeon. You withdraw. Since you're not ready to run the dungeon, you wouldn't be queuing again for a while anyway, so whether the game would have allowed you to is irrelevant. You're not penalized.
3. The queue pops and you're ready to run the dungeon, but even though you wanted to accept, either you clicked the wrong button or the game misinterpreted a chat keystroke, or some other glitch occurred making the game decide that you had withdrawn even though you didn't intend to withdraw. This is the reason most people asking for this have suggested it only take place if someone withdraws twice in a row. The glitched "withdrawal" that wasn't intended as a withdrawal wouldn't get a penalty.
   (Or in HEC's version, it's a gradually increasing system with the first withdrawal giving a completely trivial penalty, though personally I think that's more complicated then necessary.)
4. The queue pops and you're ready to run the dungeon, but are hoping for a better group if you keep trying over and over again. You withdraw just to queue again immediately, interrupting the rest of the team's game over and over again. This is the case where the penalty comes into play. The proposed rule wouldn't allow you to keep queuing over and over like that, so such griefing would be prevented.

The fourth one there is the only case with a penalty, and that's where we want the penalty. Those are the players who are griefing the rest of the community and need to be stopped. Can you think of a fifth case, one where a legitimate, non-griefing player would be penalized by this system? If so, let us know what it is so we can discuss it. Perhaps a variant of the proposed new rule could accomodate whatever circumstance that is (just as the proposed caveat that it only affect a second or subsequent withdrawal was added to accommodate accidental mis-clicks and glitches).