[Idea/Suggestion] Improve the skills or traits.

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---------- Few Intro --------

Good day everyone. This is an idea I thought time ago when I received the following reply:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Synapse

They can simply add the Merit point system FFXI. Once you hit 50, u can level after that, where your exp will go into a different calculation where u get points to put into VIT, STR, or Incraese Shield bash during etc etc...

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In this thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-Idea%29/page2

But, we are not here for discuss that idea, this is one apart and I want to focus it in the idea of the skills and traits...In my opinion, how the skills and traits are right now is a waste of design and ideas, many ideas!...

The game right now lacks a lot of the customization that it should have, I guess that once the people reaches Ilvl90 there are not really differences between one character or another, not choices, nothing...

And this could give not only more customization, and choices to the characters but also more hours-days of gaming, a new search for customizate and improve your character aside of that classical 'get more gear' one that we have right now.

------------- The Idea ------------------

The idea I speak about is let the players be able to improve their skills by choosing what field they improve, or which skill

--- And how could this be, what could be improved there? ---

Well, almost everything could be improved for the skills, because in the end, they are just numbers after all. We could increase the damage they do, the duration of the effects they make or side effects, the range for use the skill or range of action of the skill, the MP or TP cost, the recast timer...

--- Why such a thing is important for customization of characters? What good things give to the game? ---

Actually, this gives the game a big variety of players with different game styles, different combos and 'rotations' different focus on the game or even roles, different strategies.... And as said before, it could maintain the players busy, searching for improving their skills and think how to improve them, and even 'reactivate the economy' (explained in the "how")

--- Ok, we get it, but exactly how should players achieve to upgrade their skills? ---

Note: the following example is just a how could be, it could be changed, wouldn't necessarily need to be like that, is only for giving an idea.

Here comes only one idea, the how could be made however Square Enix considers it would be better or fit... But here comes my nooby sand pixel to that how. You could create a drop in the game, that could be given regardless of the character level when completing FATEs or killing some monsters in the land, a normal general drop. This item-book-thingy-whatever would have the name of one skill, example: "Stone of Flash" so only someone with a gladiator character would want to use that item for acquire a skill point for flash. This way the economy would reactivate a little with the markets, people selling skill stones-books-items-whatever of the skills they are not interested in raise, just for buying the ones they need, or also wanting to interchange items from one skill to another.

With the skill points you gain thanks to the item you could decide to improve a certain thing of your skill, (You could be able to select a skill. For example using two points increasing the area effect, or one point with a slight decrease of the recast, etc. Up to for example 50 points of skill points, and of course not everyone would use their points in the same things and skills...

IT could also be that you have overall the option to only have 150 max points for skills, allowing you only to have 3 skills at 50... Or choose for example 4-5 skills and only increase to all the skills a certain area (Range, for example)...

Combinations are endless...

--- Why am I suggesting this? ---

Time ago I played a game for certain time that had a lot, a looot of players and during a lot of time. That game was nothing compared to FFXIV: ARR... To not say ugly words let's say that it was a **** and you understand me. It was a pay to win, for starter.. The battle system was pathetic and well, overall it was... But it had three things to make the players stay longer... Level up the character (The cap was really difficult to reach) Take items and upgrade them, and personalize and upgrade the skills.) Those three tasks could take like around 7 months for a hardcore player, or more...And ARR doesn't need any of those because how it is in that fact is perfect, but it needs also to have a good personalization with the skills and allow the characters a little more to decide if they should be spending time in obtaining gear-leveling up... Or upgrading skills, or whatever, and how to do it.

Also, I doubt it would be so difficult at all for Square Enix to do such a thing, they already made more complicated things in some patches.

--- Final Notes ---

Thanks everyone for reading this. As I said, this is only an idea, and pieces of how to do it, everything could be changed. For example make it so you obtain items in the drop and then craft them for obtain special stones for the skills... Or make it so it doesn't have a certain skill name, even if in that case it would be easier and players wouldn't trade at all, make it so the items just give you some general customization skill points you decide in which skill use it and for what field of the skill. Or just add more traits we acquire or accumulate in stacks, if you see the traits we have are for upgrading the skills. Allow us to decide which traits we should get and even accumulate them. (Ex: I have 5 trait points. I choose a trait called "Quick Raging Strikes" that reduces by 10 second the recast of that skill. The cost 1. So I buy the max of it, 5 stacks, having a recast reduced of 50. While maybe other people choosed to have 5 stacks of the trait "Longer Raging Strikes" each giving you 5 more seconds of duration... Etc etc, the options are too much)

I just hope to see an answer of the dev team, because I think this thread deserves their attention, and in my honest opinion FFXIV deserves to have a nice system like this.

I'm Spaniard, English it's not so easy for me and I know there are errors in my writing, but, at least, I hope you people could understand the main idea of this.

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I'll be replying here some of the most important points, since because of the daily cap can't do it with new posts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sylve

The problem with this kind of system is that a longtime player gains a massive advantage over a newer player of the same level.
Example.
Player A plays since launch day. Gets first 50 Job and sticks with it for 1 year, gaining all the Merit/Bonus levels whatever you call it.
Player B Starts 9 months after launch, gets first 50 in 2 months playing every now and again, catches up to Player A's gear but does not have any of the Merit bonuses.

Player A will hold a significant advantage over the newer player, an advantage that would lead to parties and even FCs placing Merit restrictions on recruits.
That sort of advantage would be impossible for Player B to catch up to, nor even make up for with personal skill.
It gets especially ugly for PvP as well, should both players be interested in it.

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Here is only a small idea for customization, to be more than only the gear at endgame after all, maybe not grinding or maybe yes, I don't care much but... Let's be realistic a little about it... I know Yoshida-san already stated that he doesn't like much the differences in a MMORPG between a player that can play a lot and a player that can't... (Personally, I can only play in weekends, my time between the week is a joke)...

You can't really pretend to fight that in a MMORPG because it is the pure essence of the MMORPGs, if you really pretend to smash the content like that, at the endgame everything will be so monotone as some people say, thus, they leave and all those things. You can't pretend to 'correct' that some people has more time than others for playing.... As for correct the time some people started there's only one effective way I know... Make new servers every three months, and don't allow people from other servers to trespass their char there. So, everyone would start a server at the same time with the same priviledges and the same conditions, at least in the joining time, everything will be like new.. And is a good felling, have to say, I experienced in another game starting four new servers, and whenever there was announced a new one, there I went.

But, still, regardless of that, It doesn't necessarily has to be like you say. It could still fitting Yoshida-san's idea, adding one of the famous caps. Just like the caps with the gear, you could do a cap for weekly obtain skill points or items for improve your skills... (Still, the idea of the caps in my opinion is wrong, you have the same problem, players that started before me have advantage over me because they already have better gear I'll need weeks or more to obtain... So.... Really are we dropping a good idea just because 'would make distinction between chars that play more or less'?

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Originally Posted by Zoeila

it was that way in FF XI and i never once saw a complaint

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I'm glad to know about it!... I hope they think about doing something similar here!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

That's really the best response you can come up with? Have you looked at the party finder lately? Can you imagine the immense clusterfuck the thing would be if another layer of vertical progression as OP suggests were added?

"i120+ PROs only must have cleared must show proof MUST HAVE ENHANCED SPIRITS WITHIN OR KICK no bads"

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My shorter way to reply this is "It would be the players' fault, not game's." Because that's what's it. We can't really be dropping all the ideas just because we can imagine SOME people really asking for fancy requirements like that for their party.

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

So you fear more words, and words typed in capital letters? I'm just saying I would like to see a way to advance my character past the gear treadmill, something that rewards you for the time you spent on that character/job, I just think their reason for not doing it, upsetting people that don't even play the game right now is BS.

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Totally agree with you, as I replied above, it is simply (with all respect) stupid to take care about what requirement some people would put in a party.... If I would be the one about to joina party that says to me "YOu need to have at least a 3s Silence duration with your bard" I'd probably just ignore them and search for another or make my own...And everything

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OnyxStrife

I'm all for revamping the skill system, the one we have seems so lazy. Cross class skills aren't a reason to not make a detailed system.

This is a Final Fantasy game with the most bland skill system ever, sound weird to you? So many interesting things can be done to make skill progression actually exist instead of getting the exact same abilities/traits as any other played using the same class/job as you. It's boring and it really needs to change.

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That's more or less the idea, sir! The method, grinding or not, doesn't matter. Skills can be upgraded, can become fun, different for each other, a choice, a selection of our preference... Not something static like it is right now.

The problem with this kind of system is that a longtime player gains a massive advantage over a newer player of the same level.
Example.
Player A plays since launch day. Gets first 50 Job and sticks with it for 1 year, gaining all the Merit/Bonus levels whatever you call it.
Player B Starts 9 months after launch, gets first 50 in 2 months playing every now and again, catches up to Player A's gear but does not have any of the Merit bonuses.

Player A will hold a significant advantage over the newer player, an advantage that would lead to parties and even FCs placing Merit restrictions on recruits.
That sort of advantage would be impossible for Player B to catch up to, nor even make up for with personal skill.
It gets especially ugly for PvP as well, should both players be interested in it.

Don't get me wrong though, options for non gear progression are welcome. But that sort of grindy long term investment in a single Job not only gives an advantage to older players but also reduces incentive to play multiple Jobs, since you not only have to get to 50 on your next Job, gear it to whatever is endgame content at the time, and THEN grind out all the Merit levels to be able to use it effectively in that content.
Which brings another issue. Is content then balanced around the expectation that all players present will have certain Merit bonuses? If so, you further limit newer players from getting into Endgame, and if not, older players then have a significant edge over newer players in that same content as it is made easier by virtue of playtime invested and nothing else. Which is plain wrong.

Yoshi kind of touched on this a bit, he has said he is reluctant to make characters more powerful based on time played, aside from basic leveling. He said that a certain group, those that don't even play the game, won't think it is fair if they start 3 months from now, and us that have payed and supported this game will have more powerful level 50's then the new level 50's, basically he looks at it as not rewarding long term players, bur instead punishing new players to the game. I think it is an ass backwards way to look at things personally, but I doubt we will ever get much of an answer because in the same interview they joked about players thinking "they know best" and that they have their reasons why they do the things they do, and many of those reasons can't be shared with the players.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adrian74

Here comes only one idea, the how could be made however Square Enix considers it would be better or fit... But here comes my nooby sand pixel to that how. You could create a drop in the game, that could be given regardless of the character level when completing FATEs or killing some monsters in the land, a normal general drop. This item-book-thingy-whatever would have the name of one skill, example: "Stone of Flash" so only someone with a gladiator character would want to use that item for acquire a skill point for flash. This way the economy would reactivate a little with the markets, people selling skill stones-books-items-whatever of the skills they are not interested in raise, just for buying the ones they need, or also wanting to interchange items from one skill to another.

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My only problem with this plan is that it won't stimulate the economy very much. Players will min/max which skills are actually useful, like they've done with materia, and the boards will be flooded with the skills people actually want. The price will then drop as players begin the undercutting process they've done with everything else.

In my opinion, customization is a dream in MMOs and only truly realized in a single player RPG like Dragon Age. It would be nice for everyone to play how they want, and in theory they can. But the community will form an idea of what is best and those who don't conform will be called a noob, trash, etc. This will inevitably lead to arguing about who is/isn't playing their job correctly. PF ads will call for "X skill tree only" and exclude players.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sylve

The problem with this kind of system is that a longtime player gains a massive advantage over a newer player of the same level.
Example.
Player A plays since launch day. Gets first 50 Job and sticks with it for 1 year, gaining all the Merit/Bonus levels whatever you call it.
Player B Starts 9 months after launch, gets first 50 in 2 months playing every now and again, catches up to Player A's gear but does not have any of the Merit bonuses.

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This is how MMORPGs work. They can't balance a game with hopes of said player B joining a year or two later and expect it to survive like that. People who play from launch will almost ALWAYS have a huge advantage. Guess what Sylve? You have a huge advantage over my cousin if she joins now.

See? "advantages" doesn't matter because if you choose to join an MMO later in it's life you have to expect to play catch up. No worries though, Yoshi doesn't want any depth in this game so it lets everyone be "even" forever.

it was that way in FF XI and i never once saw a complaint

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

I think it is an ass backwards way to look at things personally

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That's really the best response you can come up with? Have you looked at the party finder lately? Can you imagine the immense clusterfuck the thing would be if another layer of vertical progression as OP suggests were added?

"i120+ PROs only must have cleared must show proof MUST HAVE ENHANCED SPIRITS WITHIN OR KICK no bads"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

This is how MMORPGs work. They can't balance a game with hopes of said player B joining a year or two later and expect it to survive like that. People who play from launch will almost ALWAYS have a huge advantage. Guess what Sylve? You have a huge advantage over my cousin if she joins now.

See? "advantages" doesn't matter because if you choose to join an MMO later in it's life you have to expect to play catch up. No worries though, Yoshi doesn't want any depth in this game so it lets everyone be "even" forever.

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I'll have only the advantage of personal skill, developed over my playtime. Your cousin would have identical stats to mine, and thus exactly the same encounter potential. With the OPs suggestion your cousin would never ever be able to keep up with me, even in identical gear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

That's really the best response you can come up with? Have you looked at the party finder lately? Can you imagine the immense clusterfuck the thing would be if another layer of vertical progression as OP suggests were added?

"i120+ PROs only must have cleared must show proof MUST HAVE ENHANCED SPIRITS WITHIN OR KICK no bads"

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So you fear more words, and words typed in capital letters? I'm just saying I would like to see a way to advance my character past the gear treadmill, something that rewards you for the time you spent on that character/job, I just think their reason for not doing it, upsetting people that don't even play the game right now is BS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

So you fear more words, and words typed in capital letters? I'm just saying I would like to see a way to advance my character past the gear treadmill, something that rewards you for the time you spent on that character/job, I just think their reason for not doing it, upsetting people that don't even play the game right now is BS.

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I agree that we need some sideways progression. It just needs to not be in the form of straight up player power per hour spent grinding mobs in a little corner of the world.

There are other ways to do it, alternate stats to vary the playstyles within a Job. For example, I might like to go for Skill Speed and Crit gear on my Monk, since i like hitting fast and sharp. Perhaps someone else would prefer Determination and Accuracy, favoring massive slower hits that always connect.

Maybe even a modification to the Materia system to apply added effects to Skills and Traits.

No grinding needed, and you don't skew the power an old level 50 to a fresh 50.

Have a look in your local Party Finder for a BCB group that will take you at ilvl70, which is the same ilvl the world firsts of the early turns were done. Hell, i have trouble finding PF groups that accept my i77 Monk into Titan HM runs. It'd only get worse with another layer of progression based on time spent grinding.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

I'm just saying I would like to see a way to advance my character past the gear treadmill

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So, you want to get off the vertical progression treadmill and on the vertical progression treadmill. Cool beans.

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

So, you want to get off the vertical progression treadmill and on the vertical progression treadmill. Cool beans.

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I never said replace the current system, add to the current system. I want a reason to play more than a couple hours a week that rewards me with something more than trivial/useless vanity items. If that is vertical progression, that's fine, that is another form of progression, and another reason to log on and do something.

I'd say go with something similar to Diablo's Rune system

You can "change" your job's skills based on what you need. For example, maybe PLD's Rage of Halone combo is changed so instead of increased Enmity, you get a small absorb effect.
This would be beneficial to a tank that might heavily out gear his other group members and has no need for extra threat - but instead could help out their healer that might be a bit under geared.
Tank having trouble w/ keeping Hate - lower damage output of Halone, but increases Additional Enmity (Yes I know that is called Shield Oath)
Two tanks but only one tank is really needed? Well - maybe that Enmity is swapped out for a DoT effect.

This would GREATLY change customization. Obviously would have different effects for other jobs - but you could change abilities so that your AOE damage is increased, or that SMN DoTs are weakened but are turned into normal spells (would help with trash pulls that mobs die before DoT's timer fully is utilized.

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Originally Posted by Kiliek

I'd say go with something similar to Diablo's Rune system
-snip-.

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This is pretty much what i was thinking, but with Materia. Perhaps we could leave the Stat Materia's as they are, and allow crafters to make special ones that change up how some skills work by applying the Materia to the Skill? I'm thinking something along the lines of TERA's Glyph system there. Though those are almost always just + power or reduced cooldowns.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sylve

I agree that we need some sideways progression. It just needs to not be in the form of straight up player power per hour spent grinding mobs in a little corner of the world. . .

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Totally agree. Maybe job / class trainers could offer quests post lvl50 that offer different skill enhancements Maybe choose 5 out of 20 potential enhancements per class/job and can re-spec with myth tomes or something.

I'm all for revamping the skill system, the one we have seems so lazy. Cross class skills aren't a reason to not make a detailed system.

This is a Final Fantasy game with the most bland skill system ever, sound weird to you? So many interesting things can be done to make skill progression actually exist instead of getting the exact same abilities/traits as any other played using the same class/job as you. It's boring and it really needs to change.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sylve

The problem with this kind of system is that a longtime player gains a massive advantage over a newer player of the same level.
Example.
Player A plays since launch day. Gets first 50 Job and sticks with it for 1 year, gaining all the Merit/Bonus levels whatever you call it.
Player B Starts 9 months after launch, gets first 50 in 2 months playing every now and again, catches up to Player A's gear but does not have any of the Merit bonuses.

Player A will hold a significant advantage over the newer player, an advantage that would lead to parties and even FCs placing Merit restrictions on recruits.
That sort of advantage would be impossible for Player B to catch up to, nor even make up for with personal skill.
It gets especially ugly for PvP as well, should both players be interested in it.

---

Here is only a small idea for customization, to be more than only the gear at endgame after all, maybe not grinding or maybe yes, I don't care much but... Let's be realistic a little about it... I know Yoshida-san already stated that he doesn't like much the differences in a MMORPG between a player that can play a lot and a player that can't... (Personally, I can only play in weekends, my time between the week is a joke)...

You can't really pretend to fight that in a MMORPG because it is the pure essence of the MMORPGs, if you really pretend to smash the content like that, at the endgame everything will be so monotone as some people say, thus, they leave and all those things. You can't pretend to 'correct' that some people has more time than others for playing.... As for correct the time some people started there's only one effective way I know... Make new servers every three months, and don't allow people from other servers to trespass their char there. So, everyone would start a server at the same time with the same priviledges and the same conditions, at least in the joining time, everything will be like new.. And is a good felling, have to say, I experienced in another game starting four new servers, and whenever there was announced a new one, there I went.

But, still, regardless of that, It doesn't necessarily has to be like you say. It could still fitting Yoshida-san's idea, adding one of the famous caps. Just like the caps with the gear, you could do a cap for weekly obtain skill points or items for improve your skills... (Still, the idea of the caps in my opinion is wrong, you have the same problem, players that started before me have advantage over me because they already have better gear I'll need weeks or more to obtain... So.... Really are we dropping a good idea just because 'would make distinction between chars that play more or less'?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zoeila

it was that way in FF XI and i never once saw a complaint

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I'm glad to know about it!... I hope they think about doing something similar here!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

That's really the best response you can come up with? Have you looked at the party finder lately? Can you imagine the immense clusterfuck the thing would be if another layer of vertical progression as OP suggests were added?

"i120+ PROs only must have cleared must show proof MUST HAVE ENHANCED SPIRITS WITHIN OR KICK no bads"

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My shorter way to reply this is "It would be the players' fault, not game's." Because that's what's it. We can't really be dropping all the ideas just because we can imagine SOME people really asking for fancy requirements like that for their party.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

So you fear more words, and words typed in capital letters? I'm just saying I would like to see a way to advance my character past the gear treadmill, something that rewards you for the time you spent on that character/job, I just think their reason for not doing it, upsetting people that don't even play the game right now is BS.

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Totally agree with you, as I replied above, it is simply (with all respect) stupid to take care about what requirement some people would put in a party.... If I would be the one about to joina party that says to me "YOu need to have at least a 3s Silence duration with your bard" I'd probably just ignore them and search for another or make my own...And everything

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OnyxStrife

I'm all for revamping the skill system, the one we have seems so lazy. Cross class skills aren't a reason to not make a detailed system.

This is a Final Fantasy game with the most bland skill system ever, sound weird to you? So many interesting things can be done to make skill progression actually exist instead of getting the exact same abilities/traits as any other played using the same class/job as you. It's boring and it really needs to change.

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That's more or less the idea, sir! The method, grinding or not, doesn't matter. Skills can be upgraded, can become fun, different for each other, a choice, a selection of our preference... Not something static like it is right now.

they already have something similar here for pvp. you can spend pvp points to increase stats and purchase skills. its just a matter of making something similar for pve.

I'm sorry but I feel like this thread needs to be a little active, or at least have else more people reading it or either a response of the developer team.

That said, I use "revamp" skill here. (There are threads about butts and those, with all respect, meaningless things, for the game that are being revamped all the time... Why an idea that could expand the horizons of the game has to be doomed to oblivion?)

Another patch is coming, and I already asked in the letter of the producer if we will continue having that annoying gear progression instead of something else and.... More customizable. It would be awesome to choose how to improve our skills and which skills.

Why still limitating the game to the attributes and the gear? Why not expand the battle system giving us the option to upgrade our skills? If possible, something that can be obtained without doing coil all the time and those things, (such as the way you obtain Animus weapon, that you have to follow a different progression)

I'm sure it's coming, but with a level cap increase in the not too distant future they're probably waiting. People are going to be jammed up enough around level 50 after the cap increase without being expected to "cap out merits" like FFXI. Better to do something like this when they hit a cap they're going to sit at for a while. Oh and these sysstems tend to have a cap so the "advantage" only lasts until the veteran hits caps and the new players makes up the ground. That's how it worked in FFXI.

The idea itself of players that start 9 months after release have to be even with players that start at release is silly.
So what if that player is not in the same lvl as the vet? HE SHOULDN't BE. If he wants to he can work (play the game) for it. Doesn't have time? Too bad. Every game requires time, offline games too.

And no, I don't play the game 24/7, I have a "life" and a full time job etc etc etc like the other guys.

As long as developers will always want to cater to everyone, the game will have to stay bland and not "complicated", it sounds good on paper that everyone are even, but actually it means there is nothing to think about and just faceroll everything.

Fact is, YoshiP knows that his fans will stick to the game no matter what and that's why he thinks new players matter more, so he cater to them more even though it makes the game less fun for vets.

It's either have everyone even with faster party matches or have more upgrading options with slower party matches... SE picked the first. The annoying requirments players list can be annoying, but there is nothing you can do about it, that's part of MMORPG, if you're not good enough for the party leader, make your own or you know, *gasp* work and actually play the game to become good

The skill upgrades don't even need to be game breaking... they can be slight upgrades just to have some kind of progression on skills lol

actually, they could do something like WoW's glyphs... some skills have come glyphs that can change a little bit of it, like, a glyph that only works for dragoons that reduce the bonus damage taken from 30 to 20%, or a provoke glyph that works for everyone that make it have no cooldown, but triggers the global cooldown now, or a glyph that reduces the staight shot critical bonus, but increases its chance of triggering... they could make some glyphs that make some skills better and other that can change the skill into another new one... Of course, some of glyphs would be obrigatory to raiding content (like, provoking being not on CD, but triggering GCD, of course), but some would be optional (like, BFB reducing the damage i take, if there's nothing better, i'd use)....

and, of course, make it like you can only use 4 or 5 glyphs aaaaand its done

I would like more depth to this game right know it gear on rails at this point here to wishful thinking.

This game is far too robotic to bother with adding customization. Everyone will just customize the same way anyway, and if you try to be a special butterfly people will hate you for being sub-optimal. Unless they change all of the skills and make combat not rotation-based and bosses not follow specific patterns, there's just no point.

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Originally Posted by Fawkes

This game is far too robotic to bother with adding customization. Everyone will just customize the same way anyway, and if you try to be a special butterfly people will hate you for being sub-optimal. Unless they change all of the skills and make combat not rotation-based and bosses not follow specific patterns, there's just no point.

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While I agree to some extent, it's silly to suggest that it would be impossible to devise some form of skill advancement with actual options to be weighed. If the proposed system only augmented damage/ healing then it would likely be very cut and dry. Even so, it's another thing to do in game that at least makes it feel like you're progressing, and honestly it's a game so everything you do is to make you feel like you're progressing in some meaningful way while you're obviously just passing time on something you find enjoyable.

Like in FFXI, either the traits/abilities are relevant and you will be forced to follow everybody's template or they are not and it would not be really worthwhile (but could be "fun" still).
It's pretty difficult to build different style/gameplay equal. I don't believe SE can achieve that.

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Originally Posted by Razzle

The idea itself of players that start 9 months after release have to be even with players that start at release is silly.

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Skill points and glyphs are pretty stupid, at least they are in application in every MMO i've ever seen. There's literally no reason to have them over skills that are just well-balanced in the first place. It's a case point of artificial lengthening when it comes to how you spend your time, and usually money in the case of skill resets, in MMOs. When I reach level 50, and complete my final job quests, I intend to have every skill i need. If they want to add gear-oriented buffs, or Materia that alters properties (ala Final Fantasy 7), then that's fine.

But in their application, things like glyphs are usually pointless for a reason -- they have to be balanced. Which means either:
1) 1-2 paths are ever actually going to be viable, which everyone will figure out and spam quickly with guides online.
2) to avoid optimal pathing they'll just be too insignificant to matter.


And Skill Trees are typically even worse. The only reason they should exist would be to promote alternate paths of playing a class, which is completely useless in FFXIV because:
1) Thats what jobs are for
2) Other classes will be getting new job paths, similar to how Arcanist has Summoner/Scholar
3) There's no reason to have skill trees ontop of jobs, especially when jobs in FFXIV provide you entirely new visual skillsets, and new classes offer Xclass abilities.



I don't see the point in artificially gumming up the game with such crap when the same effect could easily be achieved with gear stats or a new materia system. And to anyone who would suggest i'm jumping the gun, sorry, but im not; you've probably played all the same MMOs as me. Skill Trees and Glyph systems would just be better off if they were already balanced into the game, instead of giving you the false "FREEDOM" of "CUSTOMIZING" your abilities.

There's no more "CUSTOMIZATION" in these systems than our current Attribute allocation, which is only currently serving its purpose if you're playing Arcanist. Anyone else, and it's pointless.

What I would like to see and it being something more reasonable is getting unique materia that drops from normal monsters and bosses. This would be the easiest way to manage customization without having to add a "sphere grid", "merit point system" "licensboard", or a... "crystarium".

The restrictions can easily be placed for open world only and it would be nice if open world dungeons occur (not saying it's easy to develop and manage this but it doesn't have to be stressful to constantly keep track of it this way, imho). This to prevent having to deal with dungeon, raiding, and pvp balance. Unless we get unique pve (dungeon/raid) and pvp materia. Not morale but materia more akin to FFVII's materia system but with more diversity.

If anyone played Ragnarok Online they would know what I'm talking about.

With a minimum of 2 slot on gear people can already give themselves element resistance (hopefully that means if enough Fire resistance you get healed instead from fire based attacks) and then add some more uniqueness.

Weapons slots: 2x-4x cut, chance to apply status ailment attack, lifesteal, enhance damage, cure, and buff spells and abilities.
Armor slots: resistances/immunities, nul status effects (think ribbon FFX), proc on hits, increase proc rates, enhance traits.

etc