The Unknown~~~~

"Hello, Rokien here again! I hope everyone is having a good start to their weekend? I'm doing alright at work, blah!

Today I wanna talk about the unknown(OOooOOooooOOOO). Naa, nothing scary, but I want to talk about what we will know and what we wont know, when 2.0 comes.

Is every quests going to be marked(!)? Why not have hidden quests? Maybe hidden treasure, with a one of a kind item? Nm? The list can go on. It's fine knowing what there is to do, but I also wanna stumble on stuff as well. Meaning, if I do talk to random npcs or venture out, it will be worth while to do so, either for fun or rewards.

Now, I get people wouldn't like one of a kind items, I do however, especially just for esthetics. Though to make it not so one of a kind, we can produce fakes of the so called item. Leaving it rare, but where anyone can have it. If one finds it of course!

Hidden quests don't have to be coming from npcs either, you can be walking around and see a dead corpse and have it start an investigation quest. You can do a lot with this.

NMs, I think some agree that there should be rare nms, those could be these unmarked nms (nms that don't show on the map).

Just some thoughts I had, so please leave your thought, hate, anger, anything!

Tldealio: I don't see why everything has to be marked via on map or with (!).

I just want secret stuff in the game, that's all I'm asking~



Stuff like this:

Good evening,

Quote Originally Posted by gyano View Post
ジャーナルのMAPにてイベントの位置は確認できるわけですから、NPCの位置までMAP表示する必要はないと思います。
今の仕様は親切ではなくRPGの探索・探求（＝クエスト）要素を壊していると思われます。
今のFF14は戦闘コンテンツに重点が置かれすぎていて、RPG要素が欠けていると思われます。新生でもこのままの仕様で進むのでしょうか？
You can check the event location through journal's map so I don't think you need to have it where it shows even the NPC's location on the map. I believe this feature breaks the RPG's function to search for the quest. Current FF14 is focused too much on battle content and lacking the RPG features. Is 2.0 going to be like this as well?
クエスト対象のキャラクターなどの位置をマップに表示していることについてですが、昔のゲームと比べると最近のゲームはクエスト対象となるキャラクターを探す範囲が広くなっていますので、わかりやすい方がいいと考えた結果、マップにも「！」を表示しています。
Regarding the characters from quest shown on the map, unlike old games, newer games has a large range of area to search for those quest characters therefore to make easier to spot them we have the ! displayed on the map as well.

NPC探しではなく、クエストのストーリーを理解することなどに探究心を費やして欲しいと考えているため、現状のような仕様にしていますが、AF装備など、置かれている場所を探して欲しいものについては、探究要素を残していく予定です。
We have it set up this way because we want the players to spend time understanding the quests story more rather than spending time on trying to find the NPC, but for quests such as AF gear which we want you to find the location we are planning to leave features where you have to research.

どのNPCからクエストが発生するのかを探して回るよりも、クエストを受注してから、どんなストーリーが待っているかワクワクと楽しんでいただければと思います。
Instead of running around finding out which NPC gives which quest, would like for you to enjoy the story behind the quests once you start them.

Thanks again"

I posted this back when 2.0 was a mystery(see what I did there). I would like to bring it up because well, I would like to think this game will get better, I just thought it would be a good idea for future updates for your game.

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Originally Posted by ErBear

Hello, Rokien here again!

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Stopped right there....

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Originally Posted by Nero

Stopped right there....

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congratulations! Please ignore what I had to say.

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Originally Posted by Nero

Stopped right there....

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Its actually not a bad post. The game could use a little more obscurity here and there.
A sense of wonder is rarely a terrible thing from my own experience.

Mechanically, all that does is make players consult a guide, like the adventure games of old. If they're static and hidden, a single guide will suffice. If your quests are random and hidden, then you'll just have websites dedicated to showing the daily pops (much like the FFXIV Clock). You aren't going to have a lot of players running around and clicking random NPCs to see if they have quests, one way or another.

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

Mechanically, all that does is make players consult a guide, like the adventure games of old. If they're static and hidden, a single guide will suffice. If your quests are random and hidden, then you'll just have websites dedicated to showing the daily pops (much like the FFXIV Clock). You aren't going to have a lot of players running around and clicking random NPCs to see if they have quests, one way or another.

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I guess that means we shouldn't have any content, because all people will do will look up on how to do it, we beat the game before it's even played!!!! Sorry but I'm not one to look things up, even a fight because I WANT TO EXPERIENCE IT. I'm guessing you and everyone else looks up how to do single player games as well, even the secret stuff? Guess they shouldn't even bother putting in easter eggs in games no more. Because everyone is just going to look up how to do it. Great excuse not to add content where content is needed and that's the open world.

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Originally Posted by ErBear

Sorry but I'm not one to look things up, even a fight because I WANT TO EXPERIENCE IT.

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I think we all gathered that much from your suggestion. For most players, however, it's just hassle and frustration. There's not really a good way to implement this in a static theme-park MMO world like we currently have. You hide rewards from players who aren't using guides or spam-clicking every NPC to make sure they didn't miss something. If the world were larger, more dynamic, and more content-rich, then you could do a lot more simply because hidden rewards would be otherwise comparable to other activities like repeatable hunting logs, progression leves, FATEs, and so on. Even then, you'd be throwing development time at something many or most players would never see.

//EDIT:

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Originally Posted by ErBear

I'm guessing you and everyone else looks up how to do single player games as well, even the secret stuff? Guess they shouldn't even bother putting in easter eggs in games no more. Because everyone is just going to look up how to do it. Great excuse not to add content where content is needed and that's the open world.

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Since you edited this in, I thought I'd point out that you're completely ignoring the design differences between an MMO and a single-player game. A single-player game like The Witcher 2 can do branching storylines where an MMO like FFXIV simply cannot. Similarly, it doesn't much matter if a Monk is slightly behind other jobs in a single-player game, but if you screw up balance in an MMO, there will be hell to pay.

Great post and good info "thumbs up" :)

I do miss the mystery of quests and just checking something and then spawning some monster.

What I don't miss is "???" Give me all your gil thing, and there's no rhyme or reason to it.

So it can be a double edge sword. Having said that I do love/miss the mystery :)

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Originally Posted by ErBear

Hello, Rokien here again!

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I don't know why you keep doing this on all of your threads. Seems like a desperate attempt to preserve whatever forum-mythos you've made for yourself which has been rapidly decaying except among the old-timers on this board, who are outnumbered by new 2.0 players 20:1. Your old reputation isn't sterling and your new name has no obvious connections to it so I don't understand what you think you're gaining by trying to reinforce this perception.

As to the topic of the OP, I think it's interesting and might be cool for an expansion. I love the map feature in this game but I also love games where you have to collect maps first to unlock them. I remember FFXII split the difference between these two systems by having a map that updated automatically as you explored but had hidden passages that would only get marked if you found a specific item.

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Originally Posted by axemtitanium

I don't know why you keep doing this on all of your threads. Seems like a desperate attempt to preserve whatever forum-mythos you've made for yourself which has been rapidly decaying except among the old-timers on this board, who are outnumbered by new 2.0 players 20:1. Your old reputation isn't sterling and your new name has no obvious connections to it so I don't understand what you think you're gaining by trying to reinforce this perception.

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Truthfully, not many of the old guard cared for him either. I try to take him on a case by case basis.

Wait, ErBear is Rokien?

This is news to me.

i think these are good and bad idea's. having to look for quests sounds interesting gives reason to go everywhere like*oh hey a npc lets talk to it i might get a quest*
NM's are fun to do they really are i do hate campers and having to claim monsters so i don't ever actually fight them because it's just not worth the trouble but having a strong boss i can fight for fun is always nice.

now the reason i find them bad. it's simple that isn't what this game is aiming for maybe in another game, but 14 is looking to keep things simple and easy to do i think if you would wanna implement something you should suggest something that ff14 is aiming to be not make them go backwards.

like maybe more fates like odin and behemoth (i know you prolly don't like them it's just an example) like having ultros spawn in the limsa area, or having a jumbo cactuar spawn in the thanalan, think that's alittle eh? well then why not a giant sandworm ( a real one that is popping outta the ground) or a t rex like in 12 or maybe from 8 the mummy thing that was just a head and hands after beating it once, it hops out the sand and you fight its whole body.

or maybe during specific times during the day (or night) during specific weather or some other conditions for nothing other then a vanity minion (because anything actually useful would be against what 14 is aiming for) you will run into the little alien craft from 8 (or something new and alittle more original) just something cool and fun that would be what they are aiming to do and not something that is changing the game back to what they already had.

I don't know why a lot of people seems to disgust his posts, same as gramul I take case by case with everyone, I don't think this game works as it should at all, 1.0 had its flaws but had a lot of depth in some aspects, like open world, crafting especially, combat, 1.23 made a very big improvement and you had more skill options so you could personalized your gameplay a lot. NM's, yes we need them out of the FATES, give us some mats from them to make stuff, incap syste, where are you?

A random powerful rare NM that can spawn anywhere taking the place of any boss being instance or open world to challenge a party of eight with very good loot and upgradable with quests or fights, so it doesn't become outdated...

Finding an NM while I explore a dungeon would be awesome, killing certain mobs to spawn an NM too (Coeurl and a lot of NM's from xi) using a farmed item to pop a big badass NM too, an NM that is so powerful that not many try to challenge (the one in Rampart Tomb), quests that you take while you're doing another just by passing thru an area or finding a gem, letter, piece of something, etc.

Secret chests that you need to unlock in some open world or instanced dungeons, NM's like Chimera waiting in the area for a party to fight it, more NM's like behemoth and odin, different mobs and NM's according to the weather and daytime (big buffalo and the eye thing in mor dhona), etc...

Extra Credits recently made a video dealing with Quest systems in MMOs and obscurity. I really recommend y'all take a look.
Go now and see.

The "they'll just look it up" argument feels weak. Really, you can look anything up and in the end, you needn't even deal with any pretext of lore at all. The unknown is fun. Discovery is exciting. I hope we can bring some of that back. Maybe not the same way Everquest did, but in a way where we want to do quests because they're actually engaging and bring out the character of the world. One of the best quests (in my opinion) in the story isn't even centered around a typical fight. It's a competition on breaking rocks. It does something original with the systems and gives the game world some much needed variety.