Tank End Game

So now I'm wondering if I shuold reroll as a warrior. what I so far understand Warrior has, more dmg (for holding aggro) MUCH more hp, sel heals that doesen't comsume hp, they are better paried with Whie Mages (MY friend is rolling white mage so..) Due to the fact whitemages strong heals and Warrior massive amount of hp.
They can hold aggro better of larger parties but are somewhat slighty worse at single target. They also have some lockdowns.
Paladins got the shield which blocks incoming dmg (physical) Better with the Scholars, they have a hughe amount of defensive buffs in thier arsenal, as earlier said good on tanking single targets, THey have a self Esuna wich removes some lockdown on themselves. THey can be used to heal another party member if the main healer is to busy, they can also heal themselves but ic consumes mana which is resored by your TP ability.

PAladin's are more easy I've heard but think of the fact that I'm a really good tank with Paladin and a really good tank with warrior so in the end the skill cap isn't in this equation. But it's always fun to play the harder roll. (Isn't that why most ppl play druid?;)

So in the end I'm at a passage here and dunno wich way to walk so I've got some Qs for ya,

Which class is more needed?
Which class is preferable?
Which class is least played?
Warrior or Paladin?
Think about END gmae!

P.S I prob got a tons of spelling misstakes but seriously this isn't English leasson and I think everyone is bright enough to understand what I want from this post so, I'll hope you speak up cause I care for every Tank-related statement =)

The tank classes are currently very well balanced. Each one has it's situations where it might be a little more useful than the other, but both can do all the content as MT or OT. The general idea is if the fight has more consistent dmg then Paladins shine but if the fight has spike dmg periods Warriors shine. Both just as useful than the other. Really depends on your group makeup how you wanna go. Play whichever one is most fun for you.

which class is more needed ? None. They are both good and every good group (aka group that can handle mechanics) have both or can have both (some prefer double pld for some obscure reasons)

Which class is preferable ? The one you'll enjoy to play, obviously. Which also answers your 4th question

Which class is less played ? Was WAR in 2.0. Way less accurate to say that since 2.1

Side note : don't say you're a "really good" paladin or warrior when you are lv 30 on one and 5 on the other ^^ Wait for the difficult content to come, as this is no WoW.

Also, WARs may have more damage, but they don't have more aggro than plds. On solo target they are equal. Also, saying that WARs have more hp (thus making better tanks because more survivability) is only true until pld lv 40, as you'll get a perma-20% damage reduction which totally nullifies the advantage of more hp. Also, this difference makes warriors more difficult to heal as they need more heal than paladin to get on top.

On the same side, your statement about healers have to be reverted :p WHM are PLD's best friends, and scholars love warriors (lustrate heals for a good ammount on warriors). But in the end, it's mostly a matter of habits.

Other (slight) thing : pld's heals are totally worthless, better take stoneskin (lv34 WHM) and forget about the heal.

Was talking about this last night... PLD in XIV is not PLD from XI.... In XI paladins got Cure II, and maybe more I think, but they could actually heal themselves for a reasonable amount in a pinch, however in XIV your Cure will only hit for about 250.... Out of 6k+ hp 250 isn't even marginal... That said, the differences in a nutshell for me are PLD is a mitigation tank while WAR is a sponge. WAR has the HP to soak up dmg whereas a PLD wants to minimize the dmg instead of soak it. IMO though WAR's have the upper hand in tanking multiples(Overpower), and PLD has the upper hand when tanking single target in terms of enmity generation. But in reality as already mentioned tanks currently are in a pretty good place in XIV... Pretty close all in, other than the simple fact that overpower is overpowered <- XD

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Originally Posted by Poosammich

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Enmity generation isn't even an issue anymore.

The two tanks have the same effective HP, and nearly the same effective healing received. There's no secret sauce synergy between one healer and one tank or the other healer and the other tank. Healers do the same things with (nearly) the same effects for pretty much every situation except for Hallowed Ground vs. Holmgang.

They're balanced. They've both viable, capable, in demand, useful, etc. for everything. Pick the one you like and don't stress.

Which class is more needed?
Both class are needed, in 4 man content PLD and WAR are interchangeable. In 8 man content most group will want 1 of each to provide their respective debuff and also so that they won't get hit by the Limit Break penalty. Some group may want Double PLD for Hallowed Ground if they are newer to that content.

Which class is preferable?
Like I said both classes are interchangeable, and work equally as well. PLD negates more damage due to Shield Oath, but WAR has more HP and is healed for more due to defiance. PLD also has a few more cooldowns then WAR, but WAR gets Inner beast which is more or less a mini heal + defense cooldown in one, very useful. WAR are also alot better at AOE tanking, Steel Cyclone and Overpower is amazing for AOE hate.

Which class is least played?
Before the WAR buff, everyone was a PLD. With the buff, I have been seeing alot of people leveling WAR. In endgame however they are pretty equal.


Warrior or Paladin?
Just play the one you enjoy more, I have both PLD and WAR at ilevel 90 and use them both. WAR is a little more fun though cause they have more combos, for PLD you will be just spamming Rage of Halone combo 90% of the time. If you are in a raid group you might also want to see what class is the other Tank, if he is a WAR, you be the PLD and vice versa.

Level both and have both equally geared.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Also, WARs may have more damage, but they don't have more aggro than plds. Due to things like overpower and steel cyclone, this is not true. esp for groups. flash does nowhere near the aggro of either of these. On solo target they are equal. Also, saying that WARs have more hp (thus making better tanks because more survivability) is only true until pld lv 40, as you'll get a perma-20% damage reduction which totally nullifies the advantage of more hp. Also, this difference makes warriors more difficult to heal as they need more heal than paladin to get on top.Defiance also gives a healing boost to account for the extra hp

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i pretty much never do this, but see above. some information that I needed to correct.

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Originally Posted by Soulburn32

Level both and have both equally geared.

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That.

For endgame "solo tank" situations, people will generally prefer Paladins for Progression content (when they're learning and it's new) and Warriors for content that is "on farm".
Mainly due to Warriors being able to perform best when you can predict what is going to happen during the fight - Inner Beast is no good if you can't time it before the big hits, for example.

For 8-man raids with two tanks, you'll usually want one Warrior and one Paladin.

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Originally Posted by Shref

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Also, WARs may have more damage, but they don't have more aggro than plds. Due to things like overpower and steel cyclone, this is not true. esp for groups. flash does nowhere near the aggro of either of these. also, from most of what i've seen, pld's actually can do more damage. i've never parsed this though. On solo target they are equal. Also, saying that WARs have more hp (thus making better tanks because more survivability) is only true until pld lv 40, as you'll get a perma-20% damage reduction which totally nullifies the advantage of more hp. Also, this difference makes warriors more difficult to heal as they need more heal than paladin to get on top. Defiance also gives a healing boost to account for the extra hp

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i pretty much never do this, but see above. some information that I needed to correct.

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Warriors can use Overpower and Steel Cyclone as well as Flash; they will grab AoE hate faster than Paladins. Paladins get the "Riot Blade" combo; so they will be able to keep AoE hate longer than Warriors. For Single target Hate, technically Warriors can generate more than Paladins if they only use their "Butchers Block" combo... however the ideal Warrior combo rotation uses Storm's eye and/or Storm's path to inflict debuffs; so in most fights a Paladin will pull ahead. Realistically it shouldn't matter, since hate generation was made a non-issue by patch 2.1 buffing the tanking stance's enmity multipliers.

For damage, Warriors do considerably more AoE; and Paladins have a slight edge in spike DPS due to all the Off GCD attacks (even with Inner Beast). In terms of damage over time, WARs have a slight edge when solo (due to debuffs) and are basically equal to Paladins whenever you have one of each tank both focussing on the same target.

Regarding Defiance vs Shield Oath - Defiance grants +20% Healing, but Shield Oath grants +25% effective health... so there is a (very slight) tilt in the Paladin's Favour in terms of survivability from the tanking stances. Warrior can recover HP with Inner Beast though; and can get a decent amount of +Crit stacked up even when tanking due to stacks. They're very close in terms of real in-game performance.

Can WAR silence btw? I don't think it could. Probably the only down side of being a WAR. Other than that, I see no faults in playing either class.

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Originally Posted by Asdamine

Can WAR silence btw? I don't think it could. Probably the only down side of being a WAR. Other than that, I see not faults in play either class.

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WARs can't, but there isn't a need for a PLD to use silence. Most instances that requires a silence will call in a BRD.

Right now the only instance where PLD have an advantage for having silence is Pharos Sirus.

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Originally Posted by Maelwys

Warriors can use Overpower and Steel Cyclone as well as Flash; they will grab AoE hate faster than Paladins. Paladins get the "Riot Blade" combo; so they will be able to keep AoE hate longer than Warriors.

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Flash for a WAR is worthless because WAR has the lowest MP out of any class in the entire game. The only reason that it *used* to be useful was because it was instant and Overpower wasn't. With the 2.1 animation speed increase to Overpower, Flash is pretty much entirely pointless.

As to PLD v. WAR for AoE enmity, WAR will always win out over PLD for AoE enmity: Flash simply doesn't generate anywhere near as much as Overpower or Steel Cyclone. If all you do is Flash spam and then Riot Blade>Flash when you run out of mp, you'll still generate less than a WAR will spamming Overpower and then using Overpower as soon as you get the TP back (you get 50 TP/GCD; Overpower costs 130, which means that you wait ~2.6 GCDs to use it; Overpower generates roughly twice as much enmity per use as Flash). A WAR will be able to match PLD AoE enmity just using Steel Cyclone at 5 Wrath stacks: Steel Cyclone generates ~3 times as much potency as Flash does and can be used every 7-8 attacks (plus an extra one every minute if you use Infuriate), whereas you only get 3 Flashes every 9 attacks.

WAR beats out PLD on AoE enmity not matter how you do it.

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For Single target Hate, technically Warriors can generate more than Paladins if they only use their "Butchers Block" combo... however the ideal Warrior combo rotation uses Storm's eye and/or Storm's path to inflict debuffs; so in most fights a Paladin will pull ahead. Realistically it shouldn't matter, since hate generation was made a non-issue by patch 2.1 buffing the tanking stance's enmity multipliers.

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Not even remotely true. PLD has better ST enmity in every condition. The best WAR ST enmity generation rotation is SE>BB>BB>BB, which generates ~850 ePot/GCD; RoH spam for a PLD generates ~870. The only time that a WAR has an enmity advantage is in the first 30 seconds, if they're using their CDs properly. The best WAR tanking rotation, however, is SE>SP>BB, which generates ~595 ePot/GCD so a PLD is going to generate significantly more than a WAR assuming that WAR is actually using the proper rotation since WAR doesn't use its high enmity combo all the time.

(all numbers taken from the math I did here)

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Originally Posted by Shref

i pretty much never do this, but see above. some information that I needed to correct.

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as fas as I know, overpower generates the same ammount of hate than flash, just being conal instead of circle AoE. On the same side, a full CoS should be around the potency of steel cyclone (except if DoT's ticks don't benefit from shield oath bonus in enmity)

Also, the %heal boost of defiance does not match the increase in hp. The little difference, for what that matters, is filled by inner beast if you repeat it every time it's available. Personally I don't mind the 200 hp heal I lose over my pld mate, that's a little overheal my healer can do.

I use both overpower and flash. You guys try to put everything into your nice little boxes.

You know the good thing about flash for warrior? I don't have to waste time making sure all targets are in a cone. It allows me to do free hate basically as I don't even consider mp usage on my warrior as a loss of anything. Tossing a flash in with overpower spams allows you to not drop all your tp so fast.

There are plenty of uses for flash as warrior.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

WARs can't, but there isn't a need for a PLD to use silence. Most instances that requires a silence will call in a BRD.

Right now the only instance where PLD have an advantage for having silence is Pharos Sirus.

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ADS requires either PLD and BRD, or 2 BRD. War can't MT it unless there are 2 BRD. As for Pharos, Lunatic Voice or whatever it's called can be stunned, it doesn't need to be silenced.

(As for Monk solo silence, I've heard it can be done but have yet to see it actually happen)

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

(As for Monk solo silence, I've heard it can be done but have yet to see it actually happen)

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We did it (enrage method, no idea if regular way can be done without slowing dps too much in order to time silences) and only missed 1 silence. It's very tricky though

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

(As for Monk solo silence, I've heard it can be done but have yet to see it actually happen)

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Problem with Monk solo silence is that Monk has to be either amazing or completely stop DPS just to silence. Also the melee AOE that he has to avoid.

As another note, SCH can silence with Selene, but Selene can't be in the middle of casting Embrace since both Embrace and the silence use the GCD.

Also lolPharosSirius

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Problem with Monk solo silence is that Monk has to be either amazing or completely stop DPS just to silence. Also the melee AOE that he has to avoid.

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Yea that's what we figured out and eventually went back to looking for a bard lol.. We weren't even asking him to solo silence as we had a PLD main

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Originally Posted by Kitru

WAR will always win out over PLD for AoE enmity
WAR beats out PLD on AoE enmity not matter how you do it.
PLD has better AoE enmity in every condition.

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Both of these statements cannot be true simultaneously.

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Flash for a WAR is worthless because WAR has the lowest MP out of any class in the entire game. The only reason that it *used* to be useful was because it was instant and Overpower wasn't. With the 2.1 animation speed increase to Overpower, Flash is pretty much entirely pointless.

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My point was that WARs have more AoE tools avalable. Personally, I still equip Flash on my War in certain fights, because it can be used to pull instant aggro on things that you can't yet target (Soldier/Knight Drops on T4, for example) I realise that Steel Cyclone can serve the same purpose... but I'll usually want to keep Infuriate for Unchained or Inner Beast.

I appreciate the correction on AoE Enmity generation over time. However:

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"For Single target Hate, technically Warriors can generate more than Paladins if they only use their "Butchers Block" combo... "

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"Not even remotely true."

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Paladin
150x1 (FB)
200x3 (SB)
260x5 (RoH)
=2050 (/3=683.33 Enmity/GCD)

Warrior
150x1 (HS)
200x3 (SS)
280x5 (BB)
=2150 (/3=716.67 Enmity/GCD)

My point was that WARs can pull ahead of PLDs in enmity generation. Not that it's an ideal thing to do in regular Tanking situations, just that it's a possibility. I regularly out-threat other Tanks for giggles on the final boss of CT.

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however the ideal Warrior combo rotation uses Storm's eye and/or Storm's path to inflict debuffs; so in most fights a Paladin will pull ahead.

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a PLD is going to generate significantly more than a WAR assuming that WAR is actually using the proper rotation since WAR doesn't use its high enmity combo all the time.

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...isn't that exactly what I just said?

A Warrior usually doesn't just spam the Butchers Block combo, but uses the other combos to inflict debuffs depending on whether they want to deal more DPS and/or take less damage. Whereas Paladins tend to just spam the RoH combo and off-GCD abilities.

Kitru, I respect your maths... but sometimes you seem to go looking for an argument where there really isn't one.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Problem with Monk solo silence is that Monk has to be either amazing or completely stop DPS just to silence. Also the melee AOE that he has to avoid.

As another note, SCH can silence with Selene, but Selene can't be in the middle of casting Embrace since both Embrace and the silence use the GCD.

Also lolPharosSirius

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Hee! After using my Paladin for most of Coil and only getting my Warrior up to full i90 in time for T5; the things I really miss on WAR are the utility skills like Silences. And Selene's silence (like the Summoner Egi Stuns) is annoyingly ridiculous to have on their GCD >.<

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Originally Posted by Maelwys

Both of these statements cannot be true simultaneously.

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The third statement was a typo on my part. The context should have made it pretty obvious given that I was only referencing ST rotations and attacks.

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Paladin
150x1 (FB)
200x3 (SB)
260x5 (RoH)
=2050 (/3=683.33 Enmity/GCD)

Warrior
150x1 (HS)
200x3 (SS)
280x5 (BB)
=2150 (/3=716.67 Enmity/GCD)

My point was that WARs can pull ahead of PLDs in enmity generation. Not that it's an ideal thing to do in regular Tanking situations, just that it's a possibility. I regularly out-threat other Tanks for giggles on the final boss of CT.

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Except that your math ignores the 25% debuff of Defiance compared to the 20% debuff of Shield Oath. Factor that in and you get 546.67 ((150 + 200 *3 + 260 * 5) / 3 * .8) and 537.5 ((150 + 200 *3 + 280 * 5) / 3 * .75). If you're going to make conjecture using math, at least make sure you're using the proper conversions so that you can actually compare apples to apples. If you don't account for Defiance/Shield Oath, each point of potency that a WAR gets is worth 1.067 points for a PLD.

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Kitru, I respect your maths... but sometimes you seem to go looking for an argument where there really isn't one.

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Except that your arguments were wrong as was your math. Both of them needed to be corrected. It's not picking a fight when I'm outright correcting you for not doing the math correctly.

You claimed that WAR could beat PLD ST enmity with just BB spam. Not only is BB spam not the best ST enmity rotation for WARs, it doesn't even amount to more than a PLD can put out. WAR can never beat PLD enmity over time, assuming they're both playing properly, because of Shield Oath having a lower damage penalty. The only time a WAR beats a PLD on ST enmity is in burst enmity generation because WAR can throw up Unchained + Berserk + Maim + SE + Internal Release all at once for a massive increase in enmity for 2-3 BB combos in a row.

You claimed that PLD had an AoE enmity advantage over time, which is, once again, blatantly false. Flash is simply too weak compared to the insanity of 2.1 Overpower and Steel Cyclone. PLD doesn't even have a spam use advantage over WAR since, in a purely AoE situation, a WAR can spam Overpower just as often as a PLD can throw out Fast>Riot>Flash.

There is absolutely nothing that a PLD can do to match WAR AoE enmity just like there is nothing that a WAR can do to match PLD ST enmity generation. Gear being equal, the only reason that a PLD is going to get AoE aggro off of a WAR or a WAR is going to get ST aggro off of a PLD is if the WAR (in the first case) or the PLD (in the second case) is doing something wrong (either that or the one pulling aggro is Provoking right before starting their burst enmity rotation immediately after the other tank has ended their burst enmity rotation).

Both has great aggro for single target but war is a little higher for a short amount of time.
When we're doing Ex titan on solo heal,cure III is greatly increasing the aggro of our WHM.Our war hold it easier,even if there is many crit because of berzerk+unchained who is giving a MASSIV burst damage for 20 sec.It's more useful on solo heal Extreme Titan.
But well,Ex titan solo heal is not a "common" thing so it doesn't really matter :D

Both a great and complete each other REALLY well actually.
I wish it would be the case for MNK +DRG by example :D

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

ADS requires either PLD and BRD, or 2 BRD. War can't MT it unless there are 2 BRD. As for Pharos, Lunatic Voice or whatever it's called can be stunned, it doesn't need to be silenced.

(As for Monk solo silence, I've heard it can be done but have yet to see it actually happen)

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For T1 ADS, our team does MNK solo silence, no issues. T2 our DRG change to his alt BRD for dual BRD set up.

As for Lunatic Voice, it can be stunned? OAO I've tried to stun it but it doesn't seem to work. And other runs as DPS and the tank tries to stun but it doesn't work either. But silence is 100% working.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

As for Lunatic Voice, it can be stunned? OAO I've tried to stun it but it doesn't seem to work. And other runs as DPS and the tank tries to stun but it doesn't work either. But silence is 100% working.

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You can stun it. I've done it every PS I got since I only play WAR for every 4m. If there's DR I haven't seen it because by the time it might've kicked in, Siren was dead.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

You can stun it. I've done it every PS I got since I only play WAR for every 4m. If there's DR I haven't seen it because by the time it might've kicked in, Siren was dead.

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Hmm thanks for the info. Maybe due to GCDs my stun was too late. Probably the next time I run PS I'll try to auto attack only when Siren is near to 50% and aim for that stun then.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

Except that
Except that
wrong
outright correcting you
You claimed
You claimed
blatantly false

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This is the reason I mentioned that I've observed you having a tendency to go "looking for an argument" .
I fully admit that you often raise very valid points, but the language you use whenever you call anyone out on math is nearly always highly confrontational.

I'm not asking for ice cream and fluffy bunnies (anyone posting to a public forum should be able to take a little bashing, and I tend to be quite thick-skinned) but defaulting to a slightly less toxic tone might go a long way. Perhaps something along the lines of a simple "I think you forgot to account for [mechanic X] in these calculations, whenever you include this it actually works out this way instead" without having to imply a silent "dumbass" at the end...?

Seriously though, these forums are largely unregulated: we get enough snark from trolls without regular additions from someone who tends to actually have something worthwhile to contribute.

As an example: is it really so hard/degrading to (even curtly) apologise for making a typo instead of implying it to be the other person's fault for pointing it out? Especially whenever

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Originally Posted by Kitru

Gear being equal, the only reason that a PLD is going to get AoE aggro off of a WAR or a WAR is going to get AoE aggro off of a PLD

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you do it again in the very next comment... :confused:

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there is nothing that a WAR can do to match PLD ST enmity generation.

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I agree when it comes to regular tanking ability rotations.

It's true that the numbers I used above were for raw potency, and ignored buffs and the tanking stance. I ignored the stance modifier differences because using Unchained on cooldown in Defiance basically offsets the difference in Damage from Shield Oath (working out to an average of 79.167% over time versus 80% - still slightly in the PLD's favour but close enough for normal estimation purposes, especially when you factor in the +Crit from Wrath stacks). I will admit that this is not usually the most ideal way to spend Wrath stacks in terms of mitigation; but it does even out the enmity gains when directly comparing the stance mechanics from the Paladin and Warrior jobs.

It's true though that whenever you add in other buffs things shift: Paladins inherit 'Fight or Flight' from Gladiator, which grants demonstrably better damage than Warrior's 'Berserk' inherited from Marauder; putting Paladins back on top - even 'Internal Release' from Pugilist doesn't even things out. However if you start using a rotation which keeps Maim and Storm's Eye up whilst spamming the enmity combos then Warriors become much better off unless you have one of each tank focussing on the same target simultaneously.

It's also true that in real-game situations you'll essentially never come into a situation where any of this is relevant. This is because both tanks have a ridiculously easy time keeping hate from any non-tank; and tanks really shouldn't be directly competing for each other on hate (they should be focussing on different targets, or one should be off tanking).

In fact the only time I ever come across a tanking situation where I genuinely have to struggle to hold aggro is whenever I am on my Warrior, am Main Tanking, and have a Paladin constantly spamming their RoH combo on my mob... and personally I believe this to be more a game design issue (for making the RoH combo so strong both utility and DPS-wise, and the Riot Blade combo largely useless and a bigger TP loss) than a player skill issue on the part of the Paladin. When off tanking; Warriors can rotate Storm's Path and Storm's Eye to vastly reduce their hate gain, but all Paladins have to fall back on is Riot Blade and Stoneskin spam.

Bunch of pointless argument over math that has very little application to actual gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Maelwys

In fact the only time I ever come across a tanking situation where I genuinely have to struggle to hold aggro is whenever I am on my Warrior, am Main Tanking, and have a Paladin constantly spamming their RoH combo on my mob... .

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I think that's still the PLD fault.. I always turn off Defiance/Shield Oath if I'm not actually tanking something (cept on Titan Ex so far, I'll start out in DPS stance but once we start swapping I just leave it up). I've never pulled aggro with RoH spam in Sword Oath, and really I've only done a handful of times with War (Maim>SE>Berserk>BB spam)

Definitely the PLDs fault. I stance swap and even using melded I70 I wont pull hate from a War MT stacking VIT while in Sword Oath. In Shield Oath it'd be pretty easy to pull hate spamming RoH but why would I be. If it's a DPS race I'd be in Sword Oath anyways and not have to worry. (Except if I was using FoF)

Be good at the one that calls most to your soul.

All the math, all the skills, all the "best versus this" and "best versus that"... put them out the window and decide "Am I a Paladin, or a Warrior?"

Paladin all the way here. :)

Basically it comes down to this, do you want a little more challenge? Roll WAR. Want a more simple playstyle with utility and amazing damage reduction? Play PLD. They are basically equal but there are some situations where one will perform better than the other, as people have already said. I personally like WAR, but am trying to play PLD right now.....it just feel foreign to me since i started with WAR. Hard to adjust.

Both tanks are great right now.

If you decide on WAR, then you're going to have to level PLD all the way to 22 for [Provoke] anyway.
If you decide on PLD, then you're going to want to level WAR all the way to 26 for [Mercy Stroke] anyway.

So why decide now?
Level them both into the mid 20's and then decide which one you like better after you have some actual experience with the mechanics of each class!

Play what you like most. People were clearing content in this game with double PLD tank compositions before WARs were great.

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Originally Posted by Augument

PAladin's are more easy I've heard but think of the fact that I'm a really good tank with Paladin and a really good tank with warrior so in the end the skill cap isn't in this equation. But it's always fun to play the harder roll. (Isn't that why most ppl play druid?;)

So in the end I'm at a passage here and dunno wich way to walk so I've got some Qs for ya,

Which class is more needed?
Which class is preferable?
Which class is least played?
Warrior or Paladin?
Think about END gmae!

P.S I prob got a tons of spelling misstakes but seriously this isn't English leasson and I think everyone is bright enough to understand what I want from this post so, I'll hope you speak up cause I care for every Tank-related statement =)

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I noticed your a level 35 gladiator, so being really good is all relative. Now, I'm not trying to flame you- I just want to point this out, because the difficulty of dungeons sky rocket after level 50.

Anyway, you bring up end game, so I will give my thoughts on this matter. I do not have a warrior @50, but I do have a paladin.

1) Both classes are needed because they are both tanks

2) Generally paladins have an easier time getting into parties just due to easy of play. Warriors are often "viewed" as a harder class to master, where as paladins are "viewed" as an easy 123 class. Now I'm not saying all a paladin must do is 123 to be a pro, but someone with less skill can still do their function without having to try to hard. (Since I personally dont have a warrior, I cant tell you if warriors are actually a harder class to master).

3) On my server, there are more paladins, then there are warriors.

4) What ever class u find funner or more appealing

5) end game? both have been proven viable for endgame.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Problem with Monk solo silence is that Monk has to be either amazing or completely stop DPS just to silence. Also the melee AOE that he has to avoid.

As another note, SCH can silence with Selene, but Selene can't be in the middle of casting Embrace since both Embrace and the silence use the GCD.

Also lolPharosSirius

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I've silenced with scholar when switching from paladin to scholar for T2, if u time it correctly at the end of repelling cannon (or piercing laser in t1) you have the time for silence. You can't use this for silence in T1 indeed because Silent Dust has a 40sec cooldown vs a 30sec High Voltage use.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

For T1 ADS, our team does MNK solo silence, no issues. T2 our DRG change to his alt BRD for dual BRD set up.

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Turn 1 ADS, High Voltage always follows laser so MNK can just wait in opo-opo stance to silence it. DPS loss of course. Turn 2 ADS the odd number High Voltage seems to come at random time but the even number High Voltage usually is right after Repelling Cannon. It seems to come every 20 seconds or so however.
If you do turn 2 Enrage, a Warrior can totally solo tank it. The first 3 nodes, High Voltage doesn't even matter since they don't hit hard. On ADS, just have the bard silence first then Warrior use the Potent Silence Potion when it's his turn. Or just equip every members with the potion and call it a day. If you do the normal way with 2 warriors and no bards or monks or Selene, it might be slightly hard to have High Voltage under control but you have 8 people to rotate potion and the CD on it is like 3 minutes something for the High Quality? You should get through each node with 3 potions users or less and still be fine.

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Originally Posted by Lemon8or

You should get through each node with 3 potions users or less and still be fine.

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Potions being useful? Nah... Lol

We usually wait until 30 sec after 1 click to ensure we only see one HV from ADS. The PLD and Bard race to get it (bard always wins), then there are only 2 aoes to dodge before enrage. Melee usually lv3 LB right before enrage.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Potions being useful? Nah... Lol

We usually wait until 30 sec after 1 click to ensure we only see one HV from ADS. The PLD and Bard race to get it (bard always wins), then there are only 2 aoes to dodge before enrage. Melee usually lv3 LB right before enrage.

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It's a viable alternative to having to use jobs with silence skills. It's actually better to make sure you get enrage before you LB3.