Is this acceptable for a story dungeon? (Thornmarch)

This is pretty ridiculous having to wait on the duty finder for this long for something included in the story...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...ps0f6ee8a2.png

My problem with Thornmarch is another one entirely, it seems that fight is the bane of PS3s. My images don't load, it lags awfully, enemies don't show up even when I know another party member already can see them and attack them. Never doing it again after that run earlier.

Ended up withdrawing at 160 minutes, I just couldn't spend any more time on that.

Not only does it have terrible queue times, but it's horrible when you have even one person not doing it correctly. It's pretty much a wipe if DPS don't/can't(I've actually seen DPS not know how to count) hit the same targets in order; it's a wipe if healers don't play the transition properly; and it's a wipe if tanks don't grab their respective targets and keep them away from the bard. I can't say it's overtuned because it's laughably easy if people follow instructions, but stupidity kills it faster than Titan ever could - unless, of course, you end up in a full party of i90, but good luck with DF giving you that.

At least a few people re-run it for the weapons. Cape Westwind pretty much doesn't exist.

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Originally Posted by Huntington

My problem with Thornmarch is another one entirely, it seems that fight is the bane of PS3s. My images don't load, it lags awfully, enemies don't show up even when I know another party member already can see them and attack them. Never doing it again after that run earlier.

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exactly the same here.
My character is mainly a tank and I'm never running this again. I'm on PS3 too.
As a matter of fact that's the only fight I never tanked.
I switched to healer because it was simply NOT POSSIBLE to play this fight decently as tank.
By the time I could target a moogle, a DPS and/or a healer was/were already dead.
It seems the last patch made it even worse..... if that's at all possible...

This is fairly easy content if you deduct the load times of the ps3 (invest in an ssd card if you are having issues with the ps3, from what I hear from ps3 players is that they work miracles for load times and display). Idk why ppl complain so much about this battle, the strat and fight are not overly complicated if you have a decent machine to play on.

On a side note, don't queue for these fights, use party finder and /sh in mor dhona to set one up. The ones on our server fill fairly quick. To me df is something to use when you have other things to do and don't wanna camp pf. Just don't rely so strongly on df for any content and your life will be much easier.

I only do Thornmarch in Party Finder. That way if you do get a good party, you can farm it. I have all but two of the weapons now.

I got lucky on DF and got a party formed in ~15 minutes (WHM here). I'm on PS3 but on SSD, and the fight was slightly laggy, so I can imagine it being a bit worse for people with no SSD ><
Anyway as someone above said, form a party on PF. The fight is generally easy so if the party is good you could switch to farm mode and get those cool weapons :)

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Originally Posted by aerolol

exactly the same here.
My character is mainly a tank and I'm never running this again. I'm on PS3 too.
As a matter of fact that's the only fight I never tanked.
I switched to healer because it was simply NOT POSSIBLE to play this fight decently as tank.
By the time I could target a moogle, a DPS and/or a healer was/were already dead.
It seems the last patch made it even worse..... if that's at all possible...

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The Sword from it is probably my best shot at a good weapon until Relic later on, I'm queing a party for it right now as a Tank ha, it's probably going to suck horribly, but with the game installed and the disc in the tray, I'm praying that it improves it to a manageable level. What is the issue with it you do you think? I've heard some PCs have bad frame rate drops for it, but it's so mangled and awful for consoles and I can't even guess why that might be.

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Originally Posted by Huntington

The Sword from it is probably my best shot at a good weapon until Relic later on, I'm queing a party for it right now as a Tank ha, it's probably going to suck horribly, but with the game installed and the disc in the tray, I'm praying that it improves it to a manageable level. What is the issue with it you do you think? I've heard some PCs have bad frame rate drops for it, but it's so mangled and awful for consoles and I can't even guess why that might be.

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Well the 2 main issues I had were (besides heavy lag spikes and major frame rate drops, which are "normal" on this game):
1. Phase 1 was ok. But at the start of phase 2 there are so many flashy things happening... 9 targets (moogles), and most targets took precious seconds to load and/or be targetable.
A healer or DPS would die meanwhile before I could even target the moogles I was supposed to be tanking. Sometimes the Main tank would die.

2. Switching targets was a mess... on PS3 we have to press left/right to change targets (or cancel current target, face the enemy you want to aggro and target again while hoping it targets the right one) and with 9 targets it will take more precious seconds to aggro the moogles you have to. (I was OT, usually should pull 3 moogles, or at least that was the consensus back then).
You can't spam AoE hate skills like Overpower or Flash because that means you will be fighting for aggro with the main tank and all positioning goes to hell with it.
So you need to aggro 3 targets individually and fast (and maintain aggro while healers heal like crazy) which is nearly impossible on PS3 due to long loading times and mediocre targeting options.
Also ppl (usually undergeared DPS) will blame you for not marking targets >.>

I heard this moogle fight got nerfed a while ago, but I don't wanna see it anymore.


I would farm Titan HM any day over this fight.
Titan HM is a breeze now (after suffering on Titan XM), and also Titan HM drops ilv 80 weapon which has the same attack/vitality statuses from the Relic weapon, while moogle weapon is only Ilv 75, inferior to Titan weapon or Relic.

1. Ha mine was so much worse, took like a minute or two before any mogs after the first one would appear, so I had to go against the targeting order and hit that numbered one first before I could attack anything else. Even when that first one was down by then, I still could not see any other targets usually. It feels bad when you're just running around dodging stuff you can't see while everyone else is doing their job, for my one run of it that worked anyways. I take it I should not quene as a Tank then at all, only done DPS so far, Healer would probably be easy since all of my party members would show up all the time unlike the enemies ha.



2. Do you use the R2 and L2 targeting cycle trick? If you hold R2 to go right, or L2 to go left, while hitting R1 or L1, it will quickly cycle through targets depending on their distance and proximity and the like. If there's two targets next to each other, just hold R2 and hit R1 to go to the right enemy, and L1 to go back to the left one. Not sure if you already do this but when I found it a few weeks back it helped tremendously with targeting.


I can't imagine what they nerfed for it when you see it now, I would do it all day every day for the weapons since it's such a simple fight when issues like this aren't happening, I hate to hear that I'd need to purchase a SSD card just to make it acceptable.

He only drops an 80 shield though which is the problem for Gladiator, you get Garuda's HM sword or the Mog one, and those are your best choices till Relic. The shield is still good, but I've never seen it drop on all of my runs even though I've seen others with it, so it's complicated.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings,

We’ve confirmed a bug post-patch 2.16 where the client’s processes are lagging noticeably in certain content. We are currently working quickly to address this and we apologize for the inconvenience.

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It is known that the PS3 client is having trouble with this fight.

As for the duty finder problem, I would suggest queuing with friends or make a party finder group.

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Originally Posted by Yummie

It is known that the PS3 client is having trouble with this fight.

As for the duty finder problem, I would suggest queuing with friends or make a party finder group.

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I hope they do mean Thornmarch with that, I'd love to actually enjoy the fight and it's mechanics, but it's impossible to do that when you're running a PS3. It's a little outdated and everything by this day yeah, but it's still a great console. I heard rumors they were going to drop the PS3 entirely from ARR so I have no knowledge if that's more than a rumor or not, it has some slight possibilities.

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Originally Posted by Huntington

I hope they do mean Thornmarch with that, I'd love to actually enjoy the fight and it's mechanics, but it's impossible to do that when you're running a PS3. It's a little outdated and everything by this day yeah, but it's still a great console. I heard rumors they were going to drop the PS3 entirely from ARR so I have no knowledge if that's more than a rumor or not, it has some slight possibilities.

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Kinda late, but the quote in question was in response to a thread about the moogle fight lag in particular so it's lilkely what they were talking about. It's an issue for the PS3 and is due to a bug in the PS3 client (which is different from the PC client), not because of the PS3 itself.

On PS3 support being dropped, it isn't supposed to happen anytime soon and I believe the interview mentioned that the PS3 version would definitely last past the first expansion. They won't drop it until the PS3 becomes a severe hindrance.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

On PS3 support being dropped, it isn't supposed to happen anytime soon and I believe the interview mentioned that the PS3 version would definitely last past the first expansion. They won't drop it until the PS3 becomes a severe hindrance.

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Translations can be iffy, so uncertain if it was said that PS3 will certainly get expansion or that PS3 support will not be dropped before first expansion...

I love thronmarch as a healer. I offer to dps the first phase since healing is very easy. I know when the transition is coming so I have my CDs and heals ready. There is almost no choreographed movement, and the movement that is required is somewhat random.

The que times and weird lag are pretty awful. Last night when I switched crossbars it literally took 10 seconds for the icons to appear... and I never actually saw several of the mogs... but using target of target, and muscle memory I still did quite well :D

I think SE fixed what was wrong with the fight, started it up earlier and the cutscene started at the beginning before I even saw the loading image, and I was in the fight in less than a minute and enemies were showing up. Maybe this is because I have the disc in the tray as well so that's improving loadtimes, not sure, but I'd say for others if that didn't fix it for me, that it should be fine to run now for consoles.

Nobody does Thornmarch in the DF.

Everybody groups up in the Party Finder instead and runs it over and over again once they have a good party put together. It's just like with the extremes, where you need people with knowledge and skill a lot more than gear so the PF is the way to go.

Any1 looking for a weapon upgrade before relic could go ifrit hm? Pretty easy with a good stunner, and faceroll with a caster summon.... even duty finder got it right most times and it pops fast-ish even for a dps, unlike mog.

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Originally Posted by Sessurea

Any1 looking for a weapon upgrade before relic could go ifrit hm? Pretty easy with a good stunner, and faceroll with a caster summon.... even duty finder got it right most times and it pops fast-ish even for a dps, unlike mog.

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His is easy which is funny, but Mog's weapon is the best till Relic unfortunately.

It was dead, old content on arrival.

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Originally Posted by Dinh

This is pretty ridiculous having to wait on the duty finder for this long for something included in the story...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...ps0f6ee8a2.png

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so you are saying that tanks should be automatically queued up for this? I haven't ran Thornmarch, and not planning on running it. So, how would you fix this problem so that tanks queue?

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Originally Posted by Dinh

This is pretty ridiculous having to wait on the duty finder for this long for something included in the story...

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...ps0f6ee8a2.png

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In "reality's" defense all of the tanks were either in school or at work. You were que'ing just before 2pm your time. Bad choice of time to use the DF yo.

My alt just sat over 1 hour /half on titan storymode for main storyline quest and then people dropped when they entered. (Titan 4 man) FML. Had to do it FC members. So I understand your gripe. Perhaps they should include Hard Mode: Trials such as Garuda/titan/ifrit/thornmarch into the fray for bonuses - Duty Roulette: Trials. Bonus: "" I mean.

Well, they kind of inherited the end game mess from other MMORPGs when they chose to copy paste end game gear grind when they really needed replayability. Honestly, the reason no one does Thornmarch is that end game dungeons are only done repeatedly because of the gear one can get from them. Going for a relic weapon is actually a bit easier than trying to grind out Thornmarch because so many people have experience in how to get through the necessary fights for the relic that it makes it easier. On top of which, you are ensured a weapon upon completion of the quest chain. Plus you can upgrade the relic, which you can't do with the Thornmarch weapon.

So people only do Thornmarch once, maybe twice for a friend and then they stop queueing for it. Maybe the vanity system will change that a bit, but I highly doubt it.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

Well, they kind of inherited the end game mess from other MMORPGs when they chose to copy paste end game gear grind when they really needed replayability. Honestly, the reason no one does Thornmarch is that end game dungeons are only done repeatedly because of the gear one can get from them. Going for a relic weapon is actually a bit easier than trying to grind out Thornmarch because so many people have experience in how to get through the necessary fights for the relic that it makes it easier. On top of which, you are ensured a weapon upon completion of the quest chain. Plus you can upgrade the relic, which you can't do with the Thornmarch weapon.

So people only do Thornmarch once, maybe twice for a friend and then they stop queueing for it. Maybe the vanity system will change that a bit, but I highly doubt it.

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I've done Thornmarch 30+ times just to get some weapons from it.
Weapons that I then use for the respective job through the Relic questline.
Thornmarch is easier to farm than Garuda HM or Titan HM for weapons to use until relic...

Utilize party finder. Fights like this one, hydra and chimera fill up really quickly on PF, mainly because people assume no one DFs this anymore.

I did thornmarch using DF a bunch of times until i got the weapon. Most groups either suceed in 2 or 3 tries, a few are just terrible. I have had very high success rates there... bettter than Ifrit HM, and way better than Garuda HM. I still go there when I first log in as a quick warm up. I like that it's different than the primals.

maybe they could add it to a roulette later?

No on really wants to do it since the rewards are just for lulz.

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Originally Posted by randomrope

In "reality's" defense all of the tanks were either in school or at work. You were que'ing just before 2pm your time. Bad choice of time to use the DF yo.

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I would put Thornmarch into the story duty roulette, which it should be in considering this is part of the story missions. And last I checked, we are in a data center group, so you can't tell me that every tank ever was at school or work. I know 2 p.m. isn't the best time, but not finding 2 tanks in over 2 hours is ridiculous. Tanks either need to be incentivized, or SE needs to actually think ahead and forsee problems with their duty finder on content included in the story line (Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan story modes) with no real reason to do it outside of that, putting them into story mode roulette would alleviate many issues. Either way, this is an alternate character, and I really only want to do one fight, so I have no intentions in joining a PF when they are wanting to do multiple runs.

well, PF is the solution, make your own with your own rules, its faster than waiting on the DF

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Originally Posted by Nekodar

I've done Thornmarch 30+ times just to get some weapons from it.
Weapons that I then use for the respective job through the Relic questline.
Thornmarch is easier to farm than Garuda HM or Titan HM for weapons to use until relic...

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I did the same thing.
It would be nice if Thornmarch were part of Roulette. It would help motivate more tanks to learn the fight.

What is all this about PS3 issues? I never had any problems and I run a stock ps3 via wireless. Did they break it in 2.16?

Also tanking the fight is pretty trivial since you either just kite the king or tank the gld and mrd off on the side.

As to the person complaining about ps3/controller targeting... You're doing it wrong. Use R2+R1/L1.

As to why no one does it... Why would I? I have easily obtained i80 weapons for all classes (relic/Titan hm) and easily obtained i90 for all classes (primal ex). What good is an i75 weapon?

Tbh, they should add this and all the other story stuff to high level roulette. The one off fights would be desirable for the super quick tomes.

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

What is all this about PS3 issues? I never had any problems and I run a stock ps3 via wireless. Did they break it in 2.16?

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Yes they did. After the original update, it WAS impossible to play, but it has since been patched and works fine now.

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

Also tanking the fight is pretty trivial since you either just kite the king or tank the gld and mrd off on the side.

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For some reason, the roles seem to be confusing for a lot of tanks that are new to the fight, and they usually quit after the first wipe.

Usually, experienced players will explain everything to new tanks, and even number enemies, so they don't have to. But about half of the times I've been there at least one tank will rage quit within the first 10 minutes, and it is very rare for another tank to join PiP.

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Originally Posted by Bahd_Monkey

Yes they did. After the original update, it WAS impossible to play, but it has since been patched and works fine now.

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Wait... I did it the day it was added and it worked then, and still worked a few weeks later... When was it broken for ps3?

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

Wait... I did it the day it was added and it worked then, and still worked a few weeks later... When was it broken for ps3?

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For about a week right after 2.16.

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Originally Posted by NOC_NA

An issue wherein character movement lags considerably and/or actions take an unusual amount of time to trigger in certain instances. (PlayStation®3 version only)

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