Tank and heal shortage

I have been thinking about this tank healer shortage for a awhile now, and it dawned on me

2 tanking class
WAR
PLD

5 DPS class
BRD DRG MNK SMN BLM

2 Healing class
WHM SCH

So it seems like a balanced group should be 9 (instead of the current 8). However, since it is 4/8, the ratio of 1-2-1 is broken (should be 1-2.5-1), which leaves a .5 DPS class without a job per 4 man dungeon.


This seems pretty small, and it is, since DPS queue times may have 5-10x tank/healer times and can't be accounted for simply on a numerical basis for the classes.

The tank shortage is becoming more serious as it influences all queues. The game could benefit from making people want to tank more. Maybe give them more shiny armor pieces ;)

Further elaborating on the issue, that the Arcanist class is the only class to branch out into Jobs, SMN/SCH, this also makes it more desirable for people to major in first, since it gives the most benefit for least work. The solution I think is to make a new tanking class next. Could probably make it just as a cross current class for simplicity, but having 3 tanks now would help balance the ratio I believe for a lot of dungeon queue inbalances.

(simply making a tank exclusive mount wont solve this problem!!)

even if there is more dps classes than hlr or tank regardless you could have a 100 dps to 2 hlrs and tanks they still wont tank or heal if they don't want to. So that's not a logical assumption

I do what I can about the healer shortage when I play, seeing as whm is my favorite job/role to play X)

Once I've gotten my daily roulette bonuses, I usually queue up a few extra times, and I always queue with in-progress checked. Unfortunately, when I tried to exclusively level Gld/Pld up to get it to level cap so I could help as a tank, it was just too nerve wracking and I wound up not playing at all for a week or two straight... Until people can learn to chill (especially on the non end-game dungeons, yeesh!) I'm more likely to stick with my comfort job as Healer.

At least my preferred role is one of the needed ones, I suppose? (I've never seen the role-in-need be anything but Tank though...)

I normally play PLD, but right now I've started a MNK because my three friends want to make a four man team, and my friend wanted the tank role. So if it's any comfort, I assure you I'll be rolling tank in duty roulette to satisfy my desire to tank.

The main issue is that not as many people want to tank/heal as there are people who just want to hit things. There's nothing that can be done to solve that. Just encourage the tanks/healers you run into if they're having a rough time, and thank the healers/tanks if they do a good job. Encouragement and positive reinforcement will go a long way, especially considering most ex-tanks/healers I've seen on forums (especially back around when the game was released) talked about how they left the role because they were tired of being harassed for little mistakes or things that weren't even their fault to begin with.

To overcome the imbalance, DPS players would need to switch over to tanking. The second barrier to that currently, after player attitudes, is effort. There are only two tanks coming from two sources, and players that are already DPS would have to stop contributing to their DPS in order to begin raising a tank.

So the simplest solution is to, like Scholar, make the second job on one or two DPS into a tank. Lancer is in a good position, as they already get heavier armor sets than Pugilist or Archer. Regardless of the base class, any potential tank job that comes from a DPS class just needs a few enmity generation abilities, which could even combo off of the presently useless-to-cross-class Savage Blade and Skull Sunder (and combos would be an expectation for any Pugilist tank job).

By reducing the effort that someone has to go through to get into a tank job, more people will be inclined to give it a shot. I would expect far more people would go for a second job than would be willing to raise another class from 1-50, anyway. I believe it worked for healers, as I see quite a lot of Scholars taking up healer spots in PF, which also fill almost as fast as DPS spots do.

There are issues that makes tanking in ffxiv worst than other mmos.

Some fights are extremely boring - I.E Titan HM

Fail groups makes tanking unbearable - I.E Garuda EX- having to grab adds, spiny, dodge slipstream over and over again.

PLD- Spam halone combo over and over again.

Support roles have a bigger effect on how well the group does - Too much added DPS check that prevents tank/healer combo to shine.

Add that with having to know the fight 100 percent or most likely to get raged at and it's just bad.

I wouldn't call dps lazy. I main as a whm, but after a while I kinda get bored. So I then level up my smn. I will admit that its alot more fun and takes alot of pressure off of you. Old habits die hard and I find myself healing if I have the time or rezing members. I also sure to dodge.

On futufe patches and expansions they need to make new tank classes or jobs. The game is only a few months old and there's already a tank shortage? That's not good! I can see some people leaving the game due to long wait times combined with vote abandoned. Dps already wait 30m+

I've been leveling DPS classes for the achievements lately, and coming from a healer, it's not right to call DPS classes lazy - it simply requires a different kind of concentration. You have to watch your DoT timers, upcoming cooldowns, and have situational awareness (AoEs, adds, special triggers/mechanics). Certainly the least responsibility though.

Not enough people want to play tanks and heals in an mmo?! Alert the media!! Next you are gonna tell me people on the internet are mean!

I enjoy playing tank I don't understand why people have to harass tanks when they mess up or they say tanking is to easy when most of the battlefield is controlled by the tank or off tank and if the tank goes down so does the raid. its a large responsibility. I don't know if people want that responsibility to begin with I personally get kinda stressed when I doing one tank methods and like the thrill of having to take control of everything and manage my damage mods. Its not for every person in the game so I don't see a large issue with there not being a lot of tanks or healers

The reason theres a tank shortage is because its too much responsibility. Some of that needs to be offloaded onto other classes. Defiance and shield oath lowering your dmg is also bad.

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Originally Posted by Zoeila

Defiance and shield oath lowering your dmg is also bad.

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Uh, what? You're there to tank, your dmg is a secondary consideration at best.

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Originally Posted by Zoeila

The reason theres a tank shortage is because its too much responsibility. Some of that needs to be offloaded onto other classes. Defiance and shield oath lowering your dmg is also bad.

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And yet, I have not had the lack of occasions where I beat DPS

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Originally Posted by Zoeila

The reason theres a tank shortage is because its too much responsibility. Some of that needs to be offloaded onto other classes. Defiance and shield oath lowering your dmg is also bad.

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I wouldn't say 'responsibility' so much as I would say 'perceived responsibility'.

The tank is there to keep the monsters focused on them and, when applicable, to keep any direction AOE's they may have pointed away from the rest of the party.

The healer's primary function is to turn their MP into the tank's HP. There's also buffs/revives/throwing in Stone/Aero and such when applicable.

The DPS's primary function is beating down the monsters before the Healer runs out of MP which would lead to the Tank running out of HP which would lead to everyone running out of HP.

The problem is, the Healer's role is represented by people simply not dying and little health meters/buff icons. The DPS is just how fast the monster goes down. But the most easily recognizable and visual thing on the screen is "Who is the monster attacking?" Which is more or less in the Tank's jurisdiction. Everyone's role is equally important, but unfortunately the Tank's actions and mistakes are the most easily scrutinized.

It's been said already. People are lazy for the most part and don't want the responsibility. It has nothing to do with the actual classes themselves or the number of classes. Look at the way they design these games. Super fast leveling, no real depth, more and more solo content, super easy game until late game. They build these games to appease these types of people hence no one wants to tank or heal. There is a shortage in every single MMO on the market.

Tanks and Healers get blamed for failures... I'm yet to see a finger pointed at a DPS that's why people avoid them, cause it's not fun when your trying to learn and people are putting you down...

There aren't many fights that put a lot of extra burden on a tank. Most of the time tanking can actually be the easiest role once enmity is gained. It can be intimidating at first but when you're past the learning curve, it's a simple role. I think adding more tank jobs could actually help if they are both fun and easy to play, people will gravitate towards them. This is a strange idea but maybe conjurer's second job could be a tank role... they could have a more powerful and lasting version of stoneskin called stonewall that can only be cast on themselves, and the job crystal can grant dramatically more defense and hp, then you just need enmity-increasing spells. Mind would have to be dramatically reduced in this job role so the healing spells that stem from conjurer would not be very effective... their cures would only be a little better than paladin's. How about a more powerful aero which is like a wind vortex that pulls nearby enemies towards the user.

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Originally Posted by Ed_N_Ants

Tanks and Healers get blamed for failures... I'm yet to see a finger pointed at a DPS that's why people avoid them, cause it's not fun when your trying to learn and people are putting you down...

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I blame DPS all the time on Titan. :) Because if we're not making it past the heart phase, it's pretty obvious whose fault it is.

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Originally Posted by Seig345

I wouldn't say 'responsibility' so much as I would say 'perceived responsibility'.

The tank is there to keep the monsters focused on them and, when applicable, to keep any direction AOE's they may have pointed away from the rest of the party.

The healer's primary function is to turn their MP into the tank's HP. There's also buffs/revives/throwing in Stone/Aero and such when applicable.

The DPS's primary function is beating down the monsters before the Healer runs out of MP which would lead to the Tank running out of HP which would lead to everyone running out of HP.

The problem is, the Healer's role is represented by people simply not dying and little health meters/buff icons. The DPS is just how fast the monster goes down. But the most easily recognizable and visual thing on the screen is "Who is the monster attacking?" Which is more or less in the Tank's jurisdiction. Everyone's role is equally important, but unfortunately the Tank's actions and mistakes are the most easily scrutinized.

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More or less, what you've said is the core focus of their roles.

To further expand, tanks plays the role of damage mitigation. If they don't play their cards right, then the healer's job would be more stressed upon.
Such as missed stuns opportunities, or not using the defensive abilities on harder hitting unavoidable attacks.

The healer's role is threat assessments, knowing when and who to heal or esuna. If they don't play their cards right, then either someone dies or the overall effectiveness of the party is lowered.
Such as mistakes of healing a DPS when the tank is about to receive a large sum of damage, or not esuna'ing off determination downs or slow effects.

The DPS has a broader range depending on the class, some play assist with damage mitigation, while others can also support.
Though their core focus is on kill order assessments, as well as knowing how to play their own DPS abilities to the right situation.

Additionally, for most cases, there is one main tank. When something goes awry with the tank's duty, its usually on one person.
Healers usually comes in pairs, unless if the task is easy enough to skip the second healer. So their burden could be divided.
DPS has the largest division of burden, as one rotten apple can be compensated by the others in the party. A group having 4 or even up to 6 DPS is a 8 man party.

You can pick out the rotten apples in the group of DPS, but there will be never really a case, in an 8 man party, where all the damage output solely relies on one person for the entire duration of the battle.

Another reason we may lack is something I noticed a lot while leveling my damage dealers: tanks doing end game instances like WP and AK and being totally ignorant about their skill, some not using Shield Oath or not knowing that Overpower are their main aoe aggro, instead of spaming flash as a warrior. It's obvious they just FATE farmed and barely went for dungeons, maybe because of the lazy or because somebody told them the real game starts at lvl 50 and they understood they only had to learn anything at lvl 50, so they get into a group knowing way too few about their skills, keep doing poor, get a terrible experience and quit tanking.

Just so you have an idea, I found a tank in cutter's cry once, a warrior, who was still a marauder. I offered him to kick him out so he could equip his crystal and rejoin and he said he didn't have any crystal, then we had to explain to him he was supposed to do his class quests to, at lvl 30 he would become a warrior and get a real boost on his stats. Imagine the beat he would get if he'd found a group full of stressed people! Would be one less tank. :P

PErsonaly (WAR main) I stop tanking for random PU because I can't bear the harassement anymore, especialy when its coming from people who have absolutely no clue of what it is or of what they are doing. Its really exhausting.

I'm all most lvl 50 on my WHM and love it to death it's not a very hard class and of ppl are rude pfff that's on them i fill we will see more tanks and healers to come at some point^^ But as a healer i have seen some things that bug me 1 when a tank dose not mark i understand they do not have to but sometimes DPS will just shoot anything that moves and well that makes a healers job as well as a tanks job hard. but sometimes when they do mark you will still see someone shoot a random monster so talking things over is sometimes needed but as a healer or tank you have the most stress as one mess up may mean a wipe and some ppl just RQ or yell at you like your trash after that some tanks and healers may just give up. I feel the ppl who stick with it are the ppl that love the job as a healer you must love to heal and save ppl and as a tank you must love to be up there fighting hardcore eh that's how i look at it

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

I blame DPS all the time on Titan. :) Because if we're not making it past the heart phase, it's pretty obvious whose fault it is.

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Good point...

Whoever thinks DPS have less burden of responsibility than tanks or healers is gravely mistaken. I see examples using Titan's heart phase, but I can think of plenty of others.

The strain that it puts on tanks with their off-GCD limited cooldowns and rather limited TP resource, or healers on their MP, when DPS perform poorly, is immense. Have you ever healed or tanked on Brayflox's Longstop with both DPS players not even having their jobs unlocked? I have for either role, and it's awful. Haukke Manor story mode with DPS who don't understand the most basic spells/abilities and how to use them in rotation for maximum dps? Archers who can't wait 2 seconds to attack mobs till the tank pulls them in Sastasha?

DPS have incredible responsibility, not just on straight-up dps checks.

Stop spreading myths claiming otherwise.

Tanking in pick up groups make me nervous. You have to trust the healer to heal you and if you go too slow DPS get all itchy and impatient. Tanking seems like a lead type job and there's plenty of players that rather follow imo

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Originally Posted by Moirear

DPS have incredible responsibility, not just on straight-up dps checks.

Stop spreading myths claiming otherwise.

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That's not responsibility. That's having common sense. Responsibility is something like killing adds on a boss or running to a platform, whatever the DPS are expected to do beyond the basics.

If a healer or tank dies, that's a wipe. If a healer or tank is bad, that's a wipe. On most everything that isn't a DPS check, if a DPS dies, no one cares.

They need a healing Tank. One that focuses on Mind while being able to wear heavy armor and have quick medium strength heals. Since Healing seems to just love to gather hate. AoE moves to focus hate on them and then spam their own Healing skills to keep the hate one them. XD

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

That's not responsibility. That's having common sense. Responsibility is something like killing adds on a boss or running to a platform.

If a healer or tank dies, that's a wipe. If a healer or tank is bad, that's a wipe. On most everything that isn't a DPS check, if a DPS dies, no one cares.

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That's the typical drivel I'm talking about.

You'll wipe if too many (vital) DPS die and the healers and tank can't pull through because their dps quite frankly sucks, and everything is a dps check to a certain extent.

If that's not responsbility, then it's not responsibility for tanks to pick up aggro or healers to heal people: that's only common sense.

I play a support role, same as my friend, and we get duty ready within 5-10 minutes, but usually instant.
Team size is 4 players:
tanker - highest damage mitigation player, will keep others from harm;
healer - will heal tanker and the rest;
bard - will recover mana for healer and tanker, so they can function longer;
dps - bursts adds down, does aoe at pulls, eventually kills everything.
All these roles are important for the sake of team victory, same as cooperation between them. Making healer/tanker more appealing may break the cooperation point of dungeon runs: healer that can tank will make tanker feeling unimportant, tanker that can heal will make healer feeling unimportant; tanker/healer that kills adds will make dps feeling unimportant.

If someone starts playing alone - he must start as a healer/tanker, and (imo) SE should guide them to this choice. If someone starts with a friend - one of them must pick a healer/tanker. Otherwise they will have really a lot of queue time to reconsider their main class.
P.S.: i play healer and have no complains about my role, i do not understand why people prefer dps - it is so much more work and responsibility. 1000 char.

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Originally Posted by Moirear

That's the typical drivel I'm talking about.

You'll wipe if too many (vital) DPS die and the healers and tank can't pull through because their dps quite frankly sucks, and everything is a dps check to a certain extent.

If that's not responsbility, then it's not responsibility for tanks to pick up aggro or healers to heal people: that's only common sense.

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Good job omitting the important part of my post. Key point is beyond the basic expectation. Basic expectation of tanks is to pick up adds and hold them. Beyond that would be holding aggro against all odds (DPS going crazy on pull) and weaving defensive cooldowns perfectly. Basic expectation of healers is to negate incoming unavoidable damage and keep everyone alive. Beyond that would be keeping people alive despite them running into everything. Basic expectation of DPS is to kill things while avoiding red lines and circles (which a lot of DPS seem to fail at doing). Beyond that includes CC, debuffs, or proper mechanics.

Ex. Turn 1, DPS basic job is to kill Caduceus. Their responsibility is to feed the slimes properly. Pushing buttons and not standing in the poison is common sense, not responsibility.

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Originally Posted by eschaton

The tank shortage is becoming more serious as it influences all queues. The game could benefit from making people want to tank more. Maybe give them more shiny armor pieces ;)

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Square-Enix can't magically make people not lose their minds when a tank does something wrong, so unfortunately, tanks will always be in short supply.

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Originally Posted by Moirear

That's the typical drivel I'm talking about.

You'll wipe if too many (vital) DPS die and the healers and tank can't pull through because their dps quite frankly sucks, and everything is a dps check to a certain extent.

If that's not responsbility, then it's not responsibility for tanks to pick up aggro or healers to heal people: that's only common sense.

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DPS have a lot less stress that's a fact if there bad at there job it's not a wipe more ppl play as DPS since it's less of a job and a lot less stress that's a fact iv gone in many runs were one DPS lag out and we kep going me as a heal the tank and one DPS all it did was slow us down but ppl who are DPS are the back wheels if they are bad or die it will slow things up but the tank and healer are the front wheels they fall it's game over all facts

People are complex, while its true many people don't want to deal with the bullshit that comes with Tanking and healing, there are things that can be done which might help. First and foremost giving very little diversity to tanking and healing does not really help. If you want to DPS you have ranged, melee, pets, magic. While Healing has some diversity with pets it has nowhere near the range of themes and looks DPS has. Tanks have it even worse.

Add more tanking and Healing jobs give more looks for armor, it may not make it so healing and tanking outstrip DPS(since that never will happen) but adding more options will at least make people who are bored with what we have but might be interested in the role opt in, and that's really the only thing that can be done outside maybe active bribery for tank/and or mindcontrol

Healers have it a little better than dps....buuuuut.... there is a big gap between healers and tanks. Definitely not enough tanks in the game. I have my PLD to 37, my SCH to 50.

DPS classes are popular for a wide variety of reasons, but primarily because:

of players who (mistakenly) believe there are no or less responsibilities associated with the DPS role.
they are generally very rewarding to master.

can't say I feel the same about tanking.

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Originally Posted by Delorean

DPS classes are popular for a wide variety of reasons, but primarily because:

of players who (mistakenly) believe there are no or less responsibilities associated with the DPS role.
they are generally very rewarding to master.

can't say I feel the same about tanking.

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Instant queue times is pretty damn rewarding.

http://media.tumblr.com/0c1daffe767a...a1H1s7z7r6.gif

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Originally Posted by Delorean

DPS classes are popular for a wide variety of reasons, but primarily because:

of players who (mistakenly) believe there are no or less responsibilities associated with the DPS role.
they are generally very rewarding to master.

can't say I feel the same about tanking.

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That's why to of my main are DPS as it's just more fun to play as them Butttt i still love to heal