Why can't "Original Coil" and "Nerfed Coil" coexist?

Why can't SE make the nerfed coil a separate "Easy" version of coil (similar to how we have separate "Hard" modes for certain dungeons) but also keep the original version?

Players can still earn allagan gear, unlock turns 6-9 and witness the same story on the "Easy" version. The only difference would be that the non-easy version awards achievements, is forever item-level capped at level 91 (higher gear is automatically synced down) and the allagan gear and weapons earned from the "Easy" version are all shaded a different color (but carry the same stats).

One thing I commonly hear people talk about is the glory days of old MMOs. I always hear about "Vanillia" WoW and how challenging it was. Unfortunately, those challenges have come and gone. Why can't FFXIV preserve its challenges in a time capsule type fashion? Five years from now, you could have players say, "hey - let's challenge Twintania again like the good ole days."

The vanity system and achievements would be the incentive to play Coil under its original difficulty. Heck, there could be a unique mount for completing all of coil (when all of the turns have been implemented) under its intended difficulty.

Say for example that the maximum item level at the time of release for turns 6-9 is item level 111. When it comes time to release easy versions of turns 6-9, the original version would be item-level capped at 111 (while turns 1-5 remain item level capped at 91). This could go on throughout the lifetime of the game (item level cap content to the maximum available item level upon its initial release). The easy versions would never have an item level cap and could be played however the player chooses.

This way, everyone wins - and all players can relive these challenges years down the road.

Not a bad idea at all.

They're not doing a redesign on it just nerfing it a bit.
Having 2 almost identical raids wouldn't make sense.

Look at titan easy and hard. Do you think the difference is going to be anywhere near that drastic? From their wording it doesn't sound like it and as such putting it in 2 modes would make it look like cheap recycling.

Well there is still the "Wandering Minstrel" mechanic in the game. While I'm pretty sure the original Coil 1-5 difficulty will vanish, it could be replaced with a newfound difficulty with differing mechanics later on.

Fact of the matter is, though, that many players are done with repeating Coil 1-5 and are ready to move on to the next part of the story while others are struggling with Coil 1-5 now and will be able to complete them in 2.2.

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Originally Posted by HakuroDK

Well there is still the "Wandering Minstrel" mechanic in the game. While I'm pretty sure the original Coil 1-5 difficulty will vanish, it could be replaced with a newfound difficulty with differing mechanics later on.

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not until i get a riven road fight.


also this probably won't happen...because it seems to irrelevant unless it's twintania.

I'd greatly appreciate it if someone can point me to the JP for it, but what "nerfs" outside of the Echo buff are being put in place to make the binding coil easier?

If it's just the Echo buff, you're fighting at normal difficulty unless you wipe.

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Originally Posted by Spellbinder

I'd greatly appreciate it if someone can point me to the JP for it, but what "nerfs" outside of the Echo buff are being put in place to make the binding coil easier?

If it's just the Echo buff, you're fighting at normal difficulty unless you wipe.

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SE specifically said they were adding it to DF and "making it easier", though how exactly it would be made easier they didn't say. Considering they went from "only ~100 people will clear it before 2.1" to now expecting success via DF I assume they'll be doing more than just adding the Echo buff. Like tuning HP and damage numbers.

As for having two different versions of Coil, just no. SE wouldn't and shouldn't devote manpower to maintaining a secondary instance that almost no one will use.

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Originally Posted by saber_alter

not until i get a riven road fight.


also this probably won't happen...because it seems to irrelevant unless it's twintania.

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As someone who never played 1.0, I would LOVE to see the Minstrel give us a Riven Road fight, as I never got to fight Nael.

...and you make a fair point. Though even still, it would be pretty great to isolate and alter the mechanics of Twintania. Or, even better, make a boss rush of all of the final bosses of Coil 1-5 back-to-back, with a unique, yet appropriate boss representing T3.

I've been saying this for a while. Whenever a new raid dungeon is released they should offer both an easy version and a hard version. Loot dropped in either will be the same but with like a 15 ilvl difference. I would love to be able to run CT where the encounters are actually difficult.

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Originally Posted by Seif

They're not doing a redesign on it just nerfing it a bit.
Having 2 almost identical raids wouldn't make sense.

Look at titan easy and hard. Do you think the difference is going to be anywhere near that drastic? From their wording it doesn't sound like it and as such putting it in 2 modes would make it look like cheap recycling.

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It's not really cheap recycling. Square Enix only has so many resources and by having multiple difficulties it would save them a lot of development time while allowing more people to enjoy new content. People complained that CT offered nothing to those already in ilvl 90 gear, yet what SE could of done with 2.1 was have an added a hardmode that offered ilvl 95-100 loot. All they would of needed to do was tweak numbers and modify a few abilities, everything else was already built.

If you want to experience non-nerfed Coil... don't wipe. Or just leave the instance when you get the Echo buff and re-enter. Am I missing something here?

Preserving old challenge content is generally a good thing. Give players the legacy fight and an item level sync so they can experience it as it was at the time.

//EDIT: Actually, I might be thinking more long-term than OP...

If it works like the normal Echo buff, an FC member noticed today that you can dismiss it by right clicking the icon.

Normal difficulty to start with and as you wipe you get the echo buff is a fantastic way to "nerf" t1-5. Having 2 different raids for it could get confusing and would cost extra resources on SE part which would be bad for us, esp when they could be building new content.

I think SE took the correct path on this stance, and not to mention coil has been out for about 6 months. With new turns on the horizon, and the echo buff for the 1-5 turns it allows more people to experience coil. It also might give the ones struggling on t5 that little push to help them clear it to get into t6 - that would not be possible with 2 different raids.

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Originally Posted by MasamuneBranford

Why can't SE make the nerfed coil a separate "Easy" version of coil (similar to how we have separate "Hard" modes for certain dungeons) but also keep the original version?

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Yoshida said the nerf would be only the one buff that give you extra stats (make you stronger) which you also get if you failed instanced quest battles. You can click the buff away if you don't want it easy.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

If you want to experience non-nerfed Coil... don't wipe. Or just leave the instance when you get the Echo buff and re-enter. Am I missing something here?

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You can also right-click the buff icon to debuff yourself.

How many threads you need to make about it?

You can turn the echo buff off if you want to experience it without the "nerf".

It would be fun to have an achievement for something like "Clear the Binding Coil of Bahamut Turn X while every member in your party has an item level of Y or less."

Eh, I never liked this idea. As long as they don't do it with current content it won't be so bad, but in the long run it just seems like a lot of work to preserve the difficulty of an instance that no one is going to keep running. I'd rather just seem smart nerfs, like that Echo nerf thing or something.

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Originally Posted by Zaft

You can turn the echo buff off if you want to experience it without the "nerf".

It would be fun to have an achievement for something like "Clear the Binding Coil of Bahamut Turn X while every member in your party has an item level of Y or less."

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The encounter itself has been nerfed, you aren't just given a buff lol.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

The encounter itself has been nerfed, you aren't just given a buff lol.

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Maybe we should wait for 2.2 before we jump the gun? The Echo buff is the only change mentioned that can be backed up with quotes or otherwise tangible evidence.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

The encounter itself has been nerfed, you aren't just given a buff lol.

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Why are you talking in present tense? Talk about jumping the gun.

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Originally Posted by Spellbinder

Maybe we should wait for 2.2 before we jump the gun? The Echo buff is the only change mentioned that can be backed up with quotes or otherwise tangible evidence.

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Unless you recall precedence where they said they retune encounters in order for it to be "DF friendly" as well as when new content comes out that prior content will be toned down (as seen with AK, WP, Chimera, Thornmarch (though this was a random nerf unneeded) and soon coming Pharos Sirius.) So the "evidence" does exist, if it was simply an 'echo buff you can click off' then I don't think SE understands the concept of "nerfing content", but they have already done so. Removing the weekly lockout on coil is also a big indicator that it's the encounter itself they're changing more so than just giving us additional HP/MP and a slight defense boost as that doesn't really touch the content.

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

Why are you talking in present tense? Talk about jumping the gun.

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It's the exact same when they delayed Labyrinth of the Ancients/Crystal Tower and said they're easing the difficulty, I'm pretty damn sure we weren't given "just a buff" in their "tone down."

X happened therefore Y has to happen and I am going to talk like its gospel

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

X happened therefore Y has to happen and I am going to talk like its gospel

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They already stated toning down content when new progressive content comes out was going to happen and it's not just giving us a buff unless my client was glitched and I don't see the 'echo buff' in AK, WP, LoTA, Thornmarch and when I'm fighting Chimera (precedence)? So what you're saying is, for coil they'll suddenly switch to giving us a buff we can click off but not do it prior with the other content nerfs?

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

They already stated toning down content when new progressive content comes out was going to happen and it's not just giving us a buff unless my client was glitched and I don't see the 'echo buff' in AK, WP, LoTA, Thornmarch and when I'm fighting Chimera (precedence)? So what you're saying is, for coil they'll suddenly switch to giving us a buff we can click off but not do it prior with the other content nerfs?

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Notice how in those instances they explicitly stated in prior announcements / patch notes that they were reducing the difficulty of those dungeons and trials. The only explicit mention of easing difficulty for the binding coil I can think of is a Japanese interview I read where he mentioned the Echo buff.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

It's the exact same when they delayed Labyrinth of the Ancients/Crystal Tower and said they're easing the difficulty

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Again, they explicitly stated that the Labyrinth of the ancients was too difficult, and the entire raid had to be readjusted before it could be released.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

for coil they'll suddenly switch to giving us a buff we can click off but not do it prior with the other content nerfs?

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If I remember correctly, the buff part is exactly what Yoshi-P said in the previous live letter. Everything he said about BC being easier was tied to the buff. And "eventually", he said, you could stand in lasers and stuff and it would be fine.

The perceived nerf will take stages and unless you think they go jiggle and wiggle the parameters of each fight every one or two weeks to achieve that, it's only reasonable to assume that everything takes place via the buff, which is one simple change to cover everything.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

They already stated toning down content when new progressive content comes out was going to happen and it's not just giving us a buff unless my client was glitched and I don't see the 'echo buff' in AK, WP, LoTA, Thornmarch and when I'm fighting Chimera (precedence)? So what you're saying is, for coil they'll suddenly switch to giving us a buff we can click off but not do it prior with the other content nerfs?

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I'm saying this is all speculation based on precedence, which you just confirmed. Yoshida disclaimed that they were still thinking about how to go about it and floated the idea of an echo buff, so you aren't sure either.

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Originally Posted by Zfz

If I remember correctly, the buff part is exactly what Yoshi-P said in the previous live letter. Everything he said about BC being easier was tied to the buff. And "eventually", he said, you could stand in lasers and stuff and it would be fine.

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The buff and gear with higher ilevel, to be exactly

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