Arcanist/Summoner overhaul! A suggestion~

Hello,

currently I'm not that satisfied with the playing style of the arcanist/summoner class. While it being a very interesting "lore" and "background" class, it lacks fun (at least for me). The former intention for the class/job system is/was that the classes are more solo oriented (more casual focussed) and the classes more suited for group play (more endgame related).

Here are just a few suggestions which came to my mind. You can discuss, like, hate, troll or w/e, I simply don't care. Maybe one of these ideas are getting adopted, but if not, no big deal :).

Arcanist

The arcanist is not overall played anymore. The most players are choosing the SMN class for solo content no matter what. In this case we need to "buff" up the avatars/pets in order to make them useful in either way.

!These conditions will only fit as an arcanist!

- Ifrit: Close Range Meele, (M)ATK Boost + XX%, Enfire, Occ. Stun
- Tank Carby: Close Range Melee, DEF/HP Boost + XX%, Emnity+, Occ. Earthern Ward
- Blue Carby: Range Melee, Speed Boost + XX%, AOE Blind, Occ. Push Back

These different boosts apply to the pet and the arcanist only. While there being a little selection of AOE spells as well. This ist just the general idea. So whenever I go out and do quests, I should be better off with the arcanist and the boosts for solo content. This is more like an "pet-aura" sort of thing.

Summoner:

While equipping the soul stone to "raise" upon a new level (Summoner) the avatars/pets change as well. Literally stepping back from the battle itself and enhancing the summoner and the party/group.

!These buffs should apply to the whole group!

- Ifrit: (M)ATK Boost + XX%, Occ. Enfire, Fire Resistance+,
- Titan: DEF/HP Boost + XX%, Occ. Earthern Ward, Earth Resistance+,
- Garuda: Speed Boost + XX%, Occ. Healing Wind, Wind Resistance+

*The forementioned XX% should be quite a bit lower as SMN than ARC of course. So we don't step into the same SMN onry habit. Again this is just a general idea in terms of "Pet-usability"

Summoner Gameplay:

The current summoner gameplay is very DoT heavy. I don't mind the dots, really. There needs to be difference between BLM and SMN playstyle. There will be already a little difference with the pet changes mentioned above.

But the handling with the dots and pets in the very hectic fights, feels really really sloppy.

- Since the pets aren't attacking anymore as a SMN, quick mob switching will be obsolete

- Bane: Raise the recast time instead of using up an atherflow stack, make it hit more enemies while gradually lowering dmg depending on how many mobs (or give shadowflare a huge boost), give it a 100% chance to reset the duration if the targeted mob is below 15~20% health, raise the range itself

* These changes might be a bit overpowered, but I've got the feeling that this skill needs a bit of a change >_<;

- Ruin II: Boost the MATK dmg of this spell while no dots are applied on an enemy (only Ruin II not Ruin I!!!), this gives us the opportunity to burst low health mobs in exchange of some MP (since MP cost are valuable high)
- Add a low chance if our DoT's are hitting critical that we can get a free fester
- Give us a skill which copies the DoT's on the enemy back to the caster, resetting its duration, gradually lowering the SMN's HP and using up 1 Aetherflow stack if they're applied on a new enemy

This was just hitting my mind and of course this won't fit to everyone, but maybe some of you like this kind of changes. It would've been cooler if the SMN could "transfer" his soul into the pets and then actually play them or the SMN could "absorb" the essence of the pets and get cool buffs from it. But this would totally knock out the current system.

you can edit your post to bypass the limit...

Edited because well just because

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hysterior

you can edit your post to bypass the limit...

---

o.o ok I will try that :x

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bethor

Snip

---

I don't know why there is so much talk about changing SMN.... I like them very much, and IMO it's the most interesting dps job.

They changes you suggest, might make it even more intersting... But, SMN would be totally overpowered with those changes. The dps would be insane, and they with the bane change, they would be incredibly good at AOE (not just on 4 enemies like now)

They removed thunder for us, because we had too high dps, do you really think they would make a change like this ? Instant Resurrect, party buffs(pet), good AoE, best single target dps in the game.... Why would you need a BLM ? :)

EDIT: Also, why is it hard to switch targets quickly ? I have my pet attack(obey) order binded to a easy access button on my keyboard, and can quickly press it when I switch target, while I start the cast my dots...

Just to note, Bethor
You put Ifrit under Arcanist

Do you realize that Summon III is a job ability and not a class ability?

Yes, the both need an overhaul. They feel like a DOT DPS, which is sort of correct, but their summons should be doing the bulk of it!

Can't really see any of the changes not making smn OP. I think SMN is fine once you start managing the pet skills manually it starts to feel more like a pet job.

Sometimes I'd like fester to not use Aetherflow but instead consume all current DoTs on the enemy and deal damage. This way you don't feel so bad wasting DoT ticks when a mob dies in 10 seconds.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skies

Just to note, Bethor
You put Ifrit under Arcanist

Do you realize that Summon III is a job ability and not a class ability?

---

Yeah you're right but there's still the possibility taking "something" else instead of Ifrit. Maybe a new summon @40 just for the ARC. Like I said, these are just some random thoughts and nothing I'd put a huge pressure towards SE (that wouldnt work anyway). :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Craiger

EDIT: Also, why is it hard to switch targets quickly ? I have my pet attack(obey) order binded to a easy access button on my keyboard, and can quickly press it when I switch target, while I start the cast my dots...

---

I've got my Sic pet command on the hotbar as well for quick changes. But usually on trash the pets aren't doing good dmg "quick" enough. Ruin is meh too if mobs should die fast. Sometimes it feels like Fester is the only real dmg output but I'm probably wrong with that ;x

If ifrit is accessible to arcanist, then scholars could call him. Remember, every class ability is accessible to their job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deifact

Can't really see any of the changes not making smn OP. I think SMN is fine once you start managing the pet skills manually it starts to feel more like a pet job.

Sometimes I'd like fester to not use Aetherflow but instead consume all current DoTs on the enemy and deal damage. This way you don't feel so bad wasting DoT ticks when a mob dies in 10 seconds.

---

Contagion=managing pet skills.

My SMN is working as intended.

SMN need to have pet dmg increase and perhaps a % increase with having that pet active.

Parsers still show SMN doing worse off than most in single target situations.

Also... The gear is friggin' awful for SMN at the moment... Speed is all over the place and it just hinders SMN hard. That's where the DPS loss is at, probably. Sooo.. Crap.. :(

Afraid to say you're not parsing the right summoner(s).

Most of the posters in this thread aren't good summoners

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Madoka

Most of the posters in this thread aren't good summoners

---

I'm only guessing it might be because there trying to play Summoner as a pet class not a dot class. That's just a guess. Summoner should of been fixed in the beta but it was never in the beta for some stupid reason.

Again, Summoners play like Warlocks from WoW, which a lot people dislike because they want a more pet focused class/played FFXI and want that summoner back. You're saying it needs to be fixed, everyone else is saying revamp.

Thinking about it, if we changed the weapon to a rapier/epee, the current SMN-shtick could probably have have worked as a really good Red Mage (minus the pets).
I mean, ACN get both healing and damaging magic and focus on DoTs and enfeebling, with SMN expanding on that with Fester and Tri-Disaster.
Get rid of the pet stuff, add some buffs and debuffs like a Spike spell, an En- spell to buff your attacks (Enruin, maybe), give them Contagion as a Job action, and maybe some old RDM stuff like Double Cast and/or Chainspell, and ta-da, Red Mage. :D

I admit I didn't use many of the special classes in the class based Final Fantasy. What was the benefit of having a Red Mage?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blackcanary

I'm only guessing it might be because there trying to play Summoner as a pet class not a dot class. That's just a guess. Summoner should of been fixed in the beta but it was never in the beta for some stupid reason.

---

It's both, and we have synergy with our pets. Sure ifrit is useless but Titan makes us the best solo class and Garuda pushes our average dps total to the top of the boards. More of our damage coming from the pet would make the class more boring to play. And if we were completely focused on the pet like in XI then micromanaging during bosses would be the worst since it would be much more important to keep both the pet and yourself alive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exstal

I admit I didn't use many of the special classes in the class based Final Fantasy. What was the benefit of having a Red Mage?

---

Red Mages were a jack-of-all-trades class. They could use both Black and White magic, just not as high-leveled or as well as Black or White Mages, and could use a sword and shield. Later games gave them more enchanting and enfeebling skills to differentiate themselves.
I just drew parallels between Red Mages affinity to enfeebling and our Summoner's DoTs...(because I not-so-secretly want them to overhaul Summoner to be more focused on the Summons/Pets. Plus I'm always giddy at the prospect of a new class/job). >A>()

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Madoka

And if we were completely focused on the pet like in XI then micromanaging during bosses would be the worst since it would be much more important to keep both the pet and yourself alive.

---

It's not so much that we want Summoner to play like XI's Summoner, it's just that we feel like the focus is really skewed towards DoTs then the actual pets.
While I will agree that Titan is great, Garuda is the only summons that you will actually command to do something and that's just Place and Contagion, which for a pet-based class, is kind of lackluster. Plus the lack of variety or versatility in their moves, being only stuck with four moves each, is kind of a letdown, especially considering that Titan and Garuda are both Carbuncle-reskins with a +10 attack potency on all their moves.

I LOVE Summoner. It's a really fun class to play. Even with all my points in mind as a SCH main, I usually stay 2nd place in DPS. Love the mobility, and backup raises.

I disagree with anyone that says we aren't pet focused. We are so busybody, when played well, that I fail to remember a time thinking that we weren't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exstal

I admit I didn't use many of the special classes in the class based Final Fantasy. What was the benefit of having a Red Mage?

---

RDM has A+ on enfeebling magic (debuffs) , so was easier for them to stick paralyze(Chance to paralyze melee, spell attacks ) , slow (-attack speed) , dia (-def and dot), blind (-%hit chance),gravity (snare evasion down) , sleep (CC), poison (dot), bind (root), sleep, sleepga (aoe)

rdm has fast cast trait (faster cast times and recast) on the game, convert (exchange currentHPtoMP > infinite MP) , has access to refresh (mp regen for every1!), haste , cure 1-4 , phalanx (Def buff) , and nukes up to III (max was IV), haste, stoneskin, max protect and shell, raise (I max was III)

subbing whm gave rdm , dispels for every other debuff but stone (only whm could dispel stone), divine seal (next heal boosted)

Rdm were awesome :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MercuryD

I disagree with anyone that says we aren't pet focused. We are so busybody, when played well, that I fail to remember a time thinking that we weren't.

---

...Other then placing and Contagion, maybe the occasional Enkindle, what are you doing with your Egi? >A>()

So garuda only has 2 abilities? Do tell. Also, placing can be a full time job depending on situation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MercuryD

So garuda only has 2 abilities? Do tell. Also, placing can be a full time job depending on situation.

---

Does Garuda have only two abilites? No.
Do we ever use more then Contagion? Usually not.
Do we ever use Obey on anything other the Garuda? Probably not.
Plus, most SMNs usually place there Garuda where ever it will take the least amount of damage and only re-move it when they need to, so then they can focus on DPSing. That, or they just have them on Obey+Heel, so Garuda is trailing behind them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MercuryD

So garuda only has 2 abilities? Do tell. Also, placing can be a full time job depending on situation.

---

Garuda should only be ever using 2 of those abilities. Maybe knockback in the 2nd boss of WP if he targets you and you don't want to stop ruin'ing.
And placing literally almost never matters, except a couple of fights in CT which really only require you to move once at most. Most of the time anyways your pet will be getting hit with medica 2 or succor so any damage he does take from not moving is moot.

I kind of wish they'd rework summoners so that the primals were abilities instead of pets. The only pets you get would be carbuncles and then you learn special abilities involving Ifrit, Garuda and Titan.

For instance, Ifrit could give you a stun and a physical attack. Garuda gives you a DOT buff and magic attack. Titan gives you a knock back and Pet buff. When you use the abilities, a smaller version of the primal (no egis) appears, performs the ability and then disappears. Your Enkindle ability would be a placed AOE with one of the three appearing randomly to perform it.

This would do quite a few things for the class, IMO. First, it would make each summons useful. No more shunning one or two and never thinking about them again. Second, it would make a summoner actually feel like a summoner! Instead of being stuck with one pet/summons all the time, you would actually summon a multitude of primals to do your bidding during every fight. Last, when they add more primals, like Leviathan, instead of him being the new pet that you're likely forced to use, he would just add a couple more abilities to your repertoire.