On threat modifiers

Just asking around, do we have any hard data on the threat multipliers since 2.1? If not, might as well start compiling stuff.

2x Global Mod: Shield Oath and Defiance
3x: Savage Blade, Skull Sunder, Shield Lob, Tomahawk
5x: Rage of Halone, Butcher's Block, Overpower

Flash has a hate potency of 495.

Not sure about the hate mod on Steel Cyclone.

Using a self buff generates a flat 70 hate on everything, modified by the global mods.
So Stoneskin for example, under Shield Oath, you would get 140 hate when you cast it, but no extra hate when you get hit and are protected by it.

Abilities that do damage, heal, or generate raw hate, AND apply a buff/debuff do NOT generate an additional 70/140 hate for the buff/debuff portion. So a buff with no damage/healing/threat is worth 70/140, while RoH, Flash, Maim, Storm's Path, and Storm's Eye, all generate damage/aggro first, and no +70/140 later.

wait,

does global modifications stack with skills multiplicative-ly ?

so say rage of halone is a 260 potency skill x 5 = 1300 x 2 (from shield oath) ? = 2600 threat total?

Yeah, that´s the old data, but wasn´t there some modifications on defiance/shield oath multiplier on 2.1?

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

2x Global Mod: Shield Oath and Defiance
3x: Savage Blade, Skull Sunder, Shield Lob, Tomahawk
5x: Rage of Halone, Butcher's Block, Overpower

Flash has a hate potency of 495.

Not sure about the hate mod on Steel Cyclone.

Using a self buff generates a flat 70 hate on everything, modified by the global mods.
So Stoneskin for example, under Shield Oath, you would get 140 hate when you cast it, but no extra hate when you get hit and are protected by it.

Abilities that do damage, heal, or generate raw hate, AND apply a buff/debuff do NOT generate an additional 70/140 hate for the buff/debuff portion. So a buff with no damage/healing/threat is worth 70/140, while RoH, Flash, Maim, Storm's Path, and Storm's Eye, all generate damage/aggro first, and no +70/140 later.

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Afaik Overpower has 3x modifier so does Steel Cyclone if parsers are to be trusted.

Also Flash scales with stats so its not static 495 potency.

Most of this information can be obtained using the Enmity Widget on FFXIV-APP.

Just set it up so you have the enmity widget and dps widget next to eachother. Stand at max range from a dummy so you can use abilities, but not autoattacks. Then use an ability on the dummy, the dps widget will show damage, the enmity widget will show hate. Hate/Damage = Hate Mod.

Based on the testing I did after 2.1, Tanks Stances are a 2x mod. Granted, they also knock down potency by 20 and 25%, so compared to an attack without a stance up, Shield Oath provides a 1.6x mod and Defiance provides a 1.5x mod. And these 2 buffs ARE multiplicative with everything.

Now, every ability you use has a potency. But potency itself is a number based on your stats. For example, my I88 PLD with a +1 has a potency value of about 1.07. This means that my combo'd RoH hits for about 264-292 outside of Shield Oath, and 211-234 in Shield Oath. Also keep in mind that there will be some additional errors due to rounding and calculations, so we may go a bit outside of the prescribed +-5% range.

So we know that RoH has a hate mod of 5x, so if I hit for 218 with RoH in Shield Oath, I generated 218*5*2= 2180 hate.

For example, using numbers I am getting in real time using XIV-APP, running as admin, on the lvl 50 dummies in Whitebrim.
RoH, no stance, 264 damage, 1320 hate, 1320/264 = 5x mod.
RoH, Shield Oath, 225 damage, 2250 hate, = 10x mod.
So ignoring the damage loss from Shield Oath, we went from a 5x return to a 10x return by adding Shield Oath, hence Shield Oath is a global 2x modifier.

Next, from prior testing, and as stated, my average potency value is about 1.07. So lets say that we have 264 damage from RoH at 260 potency, 264/260 = 1.015. 1.015/1.07=0.948, wow, that was a really low hit... But still, lets stick to 1.07 for now.
For me, without any stance on, Flash generates exactly 530 enmity. 530/1.07=495.3 potency. Again, there will be slight differences in the exact results, but its essentially somewhere in the 490-500 region.

Lets shift to Warrior now. My Warrior is less geared than my Paladin, so its potency value will be lower. If we take Flash to be a reliable 495 potency, then my Warrior's Flash generates 503 hate without any stance on, hence my warrior's potency is 503/495 = 1.016.

Overpower, no stance, 126 damage, 630 hate = 5x mod.
Overpower, Defiance, 87 damage, 870 hate = 10x mod, so Defiance is 2x like Shield Oath.
Steel Cyclone, must have Defiance up to use, 197 damage, 1182 hate = 6x hate mod w/ Defiance, so Steel Cyclone has a base hate mod of 3x... BUT you can only use it with Defiance, and it ignores the damage penalty, so for all intensive purposes, its a 6x hate mod.

Now here is something interesting.
Flash on PLD is reduced by Shield Oath, and not raised by FoF... So for Flash, Shield Oath is a 1.6x mod, since even though Flash does no damage, it still gets the 20% penalty, and gains nothing from the 30% bonus from FoF.
Flash on Warrior is also first reduced by 25% from Defiance, then doubled... But, if you Flash with Maim up, you get a 20% bonus... 906/756 = 1.1984x

So for a Warrior doing aoe, if we consider hate potency, in Defiance, with Main up... then:
Overpower = 120*5*.75*2*1.2 = 1080 hate potency
Steel Cyclone = 200*3(base)*2(Def)*1.2 = 1440 hate potency
Flash = 495*.75*2*1.2 = 891 hate potency

But Flash for Paladin is only 792 hate potency...(blind effect does not add any hate) lol

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Originally Posted by Fue

Afaik Overpower has 3x modifier so does Steel Cyclone if parsers are to be trusted.

Also Flash scales with stats so its not static 495 potency.

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Potency doesnt scale, it is the base value for a given skill. Stats can still alter how much enmity you get but the potency would always be the same.

Much like the potency for Rage of Halone will always be 260 but the damage you do will change based on your weapon damage and other stats.

They may have been thinking attack power instead of Potency, but you're very correct.

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

snip

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Do you happen to have a link to where this stuff has been tested? Because I'm very curious on the numbers that lead to your calculations, and those used in that widget. I don't use the APP myself, and probably never will.

The testing I did for that post was literally done ingame, with the widgets using XIV-APP, and my TI89.
A lot of this has already been tested in a similar manner by Valk at http://valk.dancing-mad.com/. His manner of testing was to state that 1 damage = 1 hate, then had a tank class use a combo on a dummy, record the damage, and then see how much damage a dps class had to do the pull aggro.

Same idea here, but XIV-APP lets me see the damage and enmity values directly.

Those tables are pre 2.1.

My testing is limited, but it strongly suggests that the potency of Flash is determined by theyour weapon. It's probably Magic Damage, but it could instead be Physical Damage. Not that it matters because the two are directly correlated anyway.


While Flash does no damage, using it on a Clockwork Knight in BCoB Turn 4 reflects damage onto you. My Paladin friend and I took the exact same amount of damage from this, despite having totally different gear (I had more Strength than him). When he upgraded to Curtana+1, the damage he took increased. He took more damage than I did, despite that I still had more Strength.

When I brought my Warrior (Bravura +1), I now took more damage from Flash than he did. This was assumedly because I had Maim and Unchained up. Berserk did not affect it at all. I didn't test Fight or Flight.

Assuming that the damage reflected by the Clockwork Knight is directly related to the enmity from Flash, we concluded that:

• The potency of Flash is in no way affected by your Strength or Attack Power stat.
• The potency of Flash directly correlates to the item level of your weapon. I'm assuming it's related to the Magic Damage stat on your weapon.
• Flash is affected by Maim and Unchained since Maim increases "Damage Dealt" and Unchained removes the reduction to damage penalty from Defiance.
• Flash is NOT affected by Berserk because it increases "Attack Power", unlike Maim which increases "Damage Dealt".
• I haven't tested it yet, but one can assume that Fight or Flight also does nothing since it increases "Physical Damage Dealt".

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Originally Posted by bokchoykn

My testing is limited, but it strongly suggests that the potency of Flash is determined by theyour weapon. It's probably Magic Damage, but it could instead be Physical Damage. Not that it matters because the two are directly correlated anyway.


While Flash does no damage, using it on a Clockwork Knight in BCoB Turn 4 reflects damage onto you. /snip

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Interesting. I'll have to check damage done to me my next in T4. I've never noticed if I take damage due to flash at all. However I'll only flash when they drop so it should be easier to spot. Thanks for this.