Let's talk Debuffs!

Debuffs are an essential part of any major combat scenario. Every so often I can hear from my vent a "damn, why does he keep hitting me with that?" or "Argh, not again!" Yet despite their annoyance they keep battles somewhat interesting. While FFXIV has a good deal of basic debuffs I'm sure there are plenty more that can be added.

What kind of devilishly devious debuffs would you or like to see added to the game?

Some off the top of my head:

Knockdown - A powerful strike has thrown you to the ground, prone.
Grappled - You're held by an enemy and can't escape!
Nailed - You've been nailed into the ground and can't escape without assistance!
Floating - You're floating above the ground. Movement becomes slippery(like sliding across ice)
Dazed - You've been put into a daze. Can't take actions, movement is staggered and random.
Confused - Hotbar changes to one button "???". Actions are random or occasionally fail.
Enraged - You attack without control! No effect on warriors.
Encumbered - You're holding something weighing you down. Drop or toss the item!
Chained - You're being chained down! Run away to break the chain or be wrapped!
Wrapped - You're wrapped in chains and can't act or move. Have someone free you!
Marked - You've been marked by an enemy for some devious plan. (Used occasionally already)
De-spirited - You need some cheering up. (;D) Damage lowered; TP/MP cost higher.
Frozen(blocked) - You've been frozen into a block of ice! You need heat to be thawed. Can be unfrozen through a blm fire spell or a ??? Mage casting Melt
Melt - You're armor has been soften! Damage taken increased.
Drenched - You've been drenched in water. Thunder abilities do more damage to you.
Nightmare - You're suffering from terrors in your sleep causing damage over time. Can only be applied while slept.

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Originally Posted by Hioki

What kind of devilishly devious debuffs would you or like to see added to the game?

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Most of those already exist.

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Knockdown - A powerful strike has thrown you to the ground, prone.

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It's either stun or bind, depending upon what you think "prone" should prevent you from doing.

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Grappled - You're held by an enemy and can't escape!

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Holmgang already does this for WAR: it's a mutual bind with a pull effect.

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Nailed - You've been nailed into the ground and can't escape without assistance!

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It's basically summoning a stationary add on top of the target that binds them. In short, Titan's Gaols but you can still attack.

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Dazed - You've been put into a daze. Can't take actions, movement is staggered and random.

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Stun with arbitrary movement. Doesn't really serve a purpose other than to give it a different name.

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Enraged - You attack without control! No effect on warriors.

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This is actually used by the GLA moogle in Thornmarch. It is monumentally annoying.

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Encumbered - You're holding something weighing you down. Drop or toss the item!

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The carry dailies are basically this, except you'd just have it add a Heavy effect. You remove it by right clicking (could be implemented to be removed by attacking too).

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Chained - You're being chained down! Run away to break the chain or be wrapped!
Wrapped - You're wrapped in chains and can't act or move. Have someone free you!

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Another one of those "spawns an add right on top of you" except this time it casts the stun on you after a given time with the prescribed range. The stun would be channeled just like the Gaols.

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Marked - You've been marked by an enemy for some devious plan. (Used occasionally already)

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It's actually used all over the place. If you ever see the little targeting icon over your head, that's exactly what it means. It's not a visible status effect very often, but it's definitely there.

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Frozen(blocked) - You've been frozen into a block of ice! You need heat to be thawed. Can be unfrozen through a blm fire spell or a ??? Mage casting Melt

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Another Gaol, only this time with an ice theme. Requiring a BLM to drop a Fire cast on your or a specific cast from a different mage would be terrible design since it forces specific compositions.

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Melt - You're armor has been soften! Damage taken increased.

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Vulnerability Up by any other name is still Vulnerability Up. Ifrit Ex already does this with Suppuration, since he applies it with Fire Breath.

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Drenched - You've been drenched in water. Thunder abilities do more damage to you.

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Conditional debuff that reduces Thunder Resistance. The inverse of the Wind Resistance buff in Garuda Ex.

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Nightmare - You're suffering from terrors in your sleep causing damage over time. Can only be applied while slept.

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Just an attack that happens to be a DoT with a conditional requirement. Not really all that new and not really a new status effect.

The only really new debuffs you came up with were Confused (which would be monumentally annoying and, unless anything and everything with a CD or high cost were explicitly off limits, outrageously broken), Floating, and Despirited, and, honestly, those sound more like fight gimmicks than what you would consider "debuffs" in the truest sense.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

Stun with arbitrary movement. Doesn't really serve a purpose other than to give it a different name.

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Hysteria is a debuff that already does this; you can't take actions and you move in random directions until it ends.

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Originally Posted by Nahara

Hysteria is a debuff that already does this; you can't take actions and you move in random directions until it ends.

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Oh yeah. Forgot about that one. Good catch.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

Most of those already exist.

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Some I could probably clarify.

A stun is not a knockdown. A bind is not a knockdown. A knockdown is a combination of both in the best version. Knockdowns require animation frames to get back into combat. If anything they're more brutal than a stun or a bind will ever be. Besides something seems more visceral in the action of throwing an enemy to the ground vs just stopping them in their tracks for a few seconds.

The grapple I was thinking of is more like being held by an enemy. Holmgang would be close to a pull and bind. Grapple would be close to a grab and carry.

Nailed I was thinking close to a smashed into a ground or a hammering a nail into wood. Requires other players to pull you out of. Who said you could attack? >:D

Enraged vs Taunt. The moogle in thornmarch will taunt those around him to attack him. Enraged will cause a target to attack anything within range(players included). I didn't really clarify that.

Frozen(blocked) - I was thinking of an encounter mechanism for this. The ability to be pushed around or jumped on as a normal object in the room. The debuff is being frozen and removing the debuff with any form of heat around the room, torches or blm fire spells. Also I would be perfectly fine with them taking a better design principle and giving some classes unique bonuses. Such like blms that can melt ice paths or objects, dragoons can reach high platforms through jumps, warriors can't be enraged. Why move so far away from uniqueness and homogenize everyone into you do damage, you do healing, you do tanking. We're playing a game where you can change classes at will not one class only game. Have a little fun with it!

Chained and Wrapped - Move away from a specific spot or suffer consequences vs being entombed regardless and have to be broken out. One is decided by personal skill another is decided by group skill. It's like an anti-gaol.

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Ifrit Ex already does this with Suppuration, since he applies it with Fire Breath.

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If I remember right this only lowers hp but doesn't increase his dealt damage. The closest would be a stacking debuff from Titan. Which is fair. If you're not familiar with melt however it is generally a spell that reduces armor to 0 instead of just saying you take more damage. No stacks required. It's kind of a meaner, angrier, version of any damage increasing debuffs in game.

I'm pretty sure were going to see Nightmare in some form or another eventually (Diabolos comes to mind). It doesn't need to be new it just needs to not be in game. It's also a debuff in your "truest" sense.

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those sound more like fight gimmicks than what you would consider "debuffs" in the truest sense.

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Truthfully, all debuffs are just gimmicks. They require some action to be solved whether it is casting a spell to cure it or following up with other actions. That is not to say that all gimmicks are debuffs but to think that there needs to be a truest sense of debuffs is just a joke. lol.

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Debuffs are effects that may negatively impact a player character or a non-player character in some way other than reducing their hit points.

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Who cares if it's outrageously broken and monumentally annoying, their debuffs! They should be annoying! And all the fun ones are always outrageously broken! Have a little fun with it once and a while, No holding back!

Damn, everyone is so crazy pessimistic on these forums all the time.

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Originally Posted by Hioki

A stun is not a knockdown. A bind is not a knockdown. A knockdown is a combination of both in the best version. Knockdowns require animation frames to get back into combat. If anything they're more brutal than a stun or a bind will ever be. Besides something seems more visceral in the action of throwing an enemy to the ground vs just stopping them in their tracks for a few seconds.

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Clarify for me, because maybe I'm just not getting it, but if the only difference between a stun and a knockdown is a stun has a set duration and a knockdown has animation frames... what really is the difference? You're still unable to perform an action for a set period of time, whether that period of time is represented by a number counting down or an unavoidable character animation.

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The grapple I was thinking of is more like being held by an enemy. Holmgang would be close to a pull and bind. Grapple would be close to a grab and carry.

Nailed I was thinking close to a smashed into a ground or a hammering a nail into wood. Requires other players to pull you out of. Who said you could attack?

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I don't quite like the idea of being forcibly bound to a single spot, at least in the hands of the player. Holmgang I accept, as you can position yourself accordingly and the enemy reacts to you, but the other way around forces you to be locked into a spot you may not like, a position that is decided by the enemy's AI.

That said, the Fetters debuff already does this. This is the debuff placed upon you when trapped in Titan's Granite Gaol, but also the debuff applied to you if you get caught by a crawling zombie in the Siren fight of Pharos Sirius (which essentially covers nailed). On a personal note, I'm not a fan of the imagery of being nailed into the ground like an actual nail; feels way too Looney Toons and doesn't thematically fit in this setting.

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Enraged vs Taunt. The moogle in thornmarch will taunt those around him to attack him. Enraged will cause a target to attack anything within range(players included). I didn't really clarify that.

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Again, this debuff already exists (to an extent) in the form of the Charmed debuff. During the Siren fight, if you get charmed, you start attacking your allies.

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Chained and Wrapped - Move away from a specific spot or suffer consequences vs being entombed regardless and have to be broken out. One is decided by personal skill another is decided by group skill. It's like an anti-gaol.

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I want to say Chained already exists, and I vaguely recall having to perform the mechanics in a dungeon somewhere, but the actual fight is eluding me at the moment. I'll get back to this one once I find or remember it.

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Originally Posted by Nahara

Clarify for me, because maybe I'm just not getting it, but if the only difference between a stun and a knockdown is a stun has a set duration and a knockdown has animation frames... what really is the difference? You're still unable to perform an action for a set period of time, whether that period of time is represented by a number counting down or an unavoidable character animation.

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In one you are still standing another you are down on the ground. A stun will never offer follow up or allow for exploitation. A knockdown will put one prone on the ground, and if you code and develop it properly, allow players or enemies to exploit the situation and follow up with specific downed status abilities.Knockdowns also tend to cause a longer downtime due to having the duration of a stun but also requiring recovery animations to get into standing position. Knockdowns are also notorious for ignoring recovery abilities that normally 'break' you out of binds/sleeps/stuns simply due to animation frames. There are a few cases where knockdowns will determine tank swapping or positional changes as to prevent exploitation from the enemy. There are more differences but these are the major ones I can give you.

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I don't quite like the idea of being forcibly bound to a single spot, at least in the hands of the player. Holmgang I accept, as you can position yourself accordingly and the enemy reacts to you, but the other way around forces you to be locked into a spot you may not like, a position that is decided by the enemy's AI.

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Now you're getting it! You don't like it! It's annoying, it's different, and it's a debuff and you'll find a way to deal with it!

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That said, the Fetters debuff already does this. This is the debuff placed upon you when trapped in Titan's Granite Gaol, but also the debuff applied to you if you get caught by a crawling zombie in the Siren fight of Pharos Sirius (which essentially covers nailed).

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The fetters debuff lowers determination and thus damage. Also goal and nailed differ in one requiring damage to a target from players and another requiring the action/animation of a player digging you out or you struggling for freedom.

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Again, this debuff already exists (to an extent) in the form of the Charmed debuff. During the Siren fight, if you get charmed, you start attacking your allies.

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Again, it doesn't. Enraged is the action of attacking anything around you without mercy. You fight anything that happens to be in range whether it's a player, an enemy, or that super important object you needed to protect.

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I'm not a fan of the imagery of being nailed into the ground like an actual nail; feels way too Looney Toons and doesn't thematically fit in this setting.

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Not at all, it fits perfectly fine in a game.

I'm not sure why people have a fear that they might have to do something interesting or deal with something unique. The debuffs in the game are already ridiculously boring and uninspired why keep it that way? Also the thread isn't criticizing every detail in the OP. It's: What kind of devilishly devious debuffs would you or like to see added to the game? It's fine if you say that you can't get behind some of mine but at least don't ignore the base reason of the thread. Gotta use that imagination once and a while!

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Originally Posted by Hioki

Now you're getting it! You don't like it! It's annoying, it's different, and it's a debuff and you'll find a way to deal with it!

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Naturally I don't like debuffs, but you missed why I don't like particular debuff. Being bound to a single position is not a bad debuff to be subjected to, whether it be due to a stun or an actual bind/root effect. The problem comes it when players are bound to a single spot that is not within their control. Think about the whole issue revolving the animation frames of the Dragoon's jumps, and the fact that they took so long that it was very easy to fall prey to bad positioning (like accidentally jumping head-first into a Landslide on Titan); players got really concerned over this and SE responded in kind by cutting the animation time for the jumps in half so that the players could recover faster.

If the players are given an ability that forcibly roots them in place, they should also be able to decide where they are going to be rooted, as is the case with Holmgang. If the players have a gameplay mechanic that becomes notorious for getting players killed more than it helps them, it's bad gameplay.

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Not at all, it fits perfectly fine in a game.

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Themeatics and presentation are very important to a game, and just because something is a video game doesn't mean you can do anything.

Would you still consider such an animation appropriate if it was placed in the Slenderman game or Dragon Age? Of course not; something like that just wouldn't visually fit into those games. Maybe in World of Warcraft and definitely in something like Ratchet and Clank or that Wildstar MMO, because those games are reasonably cartoony enough that it wouldn't be out of place.

It WOULD be visually out of place in XIV. It would be like seeing an anvil drop on Gaius's head and watching as a large bump broke out of the top of his helmet.

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Originally Posted by Hioki

In one you are still standing another you are down on the ground. A stun will never offer follow up or allow for exploitation. A knockdown will put one prone on the ground, and if you code and develop it properly, allow players or enemies to exploit the situation and follow up with specific downed status abilities.Knockdowns also tend to cause a longer downtime due to having the duration of a stun but also requiring recovery animations to get into standing position. Knockdowns are also notorious for ignoring recovery abilities that normally 'break' you out of binds/sleeps/stuns simply due to animation frames. There are a few cases where knockdowns will determine tank swapping or positional changes as to prevent exploitation from the enemy. There are more differences but these are the major ones I can give you.

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You're still describing a stun.

Eco - reverse of Cover used by PLD, except at a 30% damage to the party member (instead of full) of each attack leveled at the mob. Can be a multiple stacked debuff if implemented by a dungeon boss that consists of multiple mobs - such as 3 magi similar to boss in AK. Would have multiple castings to remove if more than one applied. 30 secs time to each one (if more than one on the player)

Wall - good old fashioned FF favorite, but cast by the boss on the tank in a semi-instant cone (similar to the hounds in PS or the bird dives in PS), or a really fast AoE to hit melee, too. Could also be called "Redirect" in which case it doesn't bounce off the tank or DPS hit and go to the caster, but goes to the boss instead of the caster. Again, 15 second timer unless removed. Or hell, 15 seconds and can't be removed. Doesn't affect things such as regen if already applied.

Absorb - HP dwindles off the affected player rapidly, by increments of 10, going back to the mob or boss. Stays until removed, or has a 30 sec timer. The last is an added affect to several AoEs out there already, but now it is a debuff that makes things worse by healing the mob or boss

MP Bleed - pretty obvious, but MP bleeds off of the affected target by increments of 5. 15 second timer, at 20 per second

Doom - another good old fashioned FF favorite. Appears in some fashion in a dungeon already (forget the name), but the mechanics could change to where it is actually an AoE that once players are afflicted, it must be dispelled in 10 seconds by a healer instead of walking on a designated pad.

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Off topic, but really disappointed there's no buff spell of haste, fast or whatever equivalent. Or Wall, where you have a 2-spell or 3-spell usage on it before it disappears.

I want to see Zombie make a comeback and have Healers play a dps role with that.

You know, as cool as debuffs are... they are never truly useful when needed.

Most bosses resist the best debuffs so why bother having them?

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

You know, as cool as debuffs are... they are never truly useful when needed.

Most bosses resist the best debuffs so why bother having them?

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Can't believe I just read that, you do realise that Virus is a buff, and it is extremely useful, slow works on quite a few bosses and reduces their damage output, stun is a debuff and is imperative in coil as is silence.

There is a good amount of debuffs to debuff the enemies, short term mostly and often under DR.

LotrO had some pretty potent debuffs on two of their classes. But is has to be mentioned that LotrO has been designed to have support classe, their group seize is 6 for example. We only have 4, that alone will be a hindrance.

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Originally Posted by AlrikRouge

Off topic, but really disappointed there's no buff spell of haste, fast or whatever equivalent.

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Yoshi-P has specifically stated that Haste is never going to be given to the players.