Please fix crafting.

Hello everyone.

Please take away the ability to level all crafts and gathering classes
everyone can gather and craft everything on one character its silly.

I have all crafts and gathering classes at 50 and i think well now what?
Everyone else can do it too so who you going to craft stuff for?

I would happily take some kind of week long lock out of all crafts except 1
which i could choose each week same for gathering classes.

Any feedback on this is welcome good or bad but please keep it civil :)

Short version of my feedback: No.

Long version of my feedback: I like having the ability to level all my crafting classes leveled because that means I can craft what I want, and craft things for people who don't like crafting. A change such as this would be backwards to the type of open class system they have right now, and I'm not even going to imagine the rage from people who would lose their current progress in a crafting job they leveled. What is the reason you think this is remotely a good idea? What's wrong with knowing how to cook and make your own armour, brew a potion, and fix a pair of pants?

I for one like to be self-sufficient and disagree that it is a problem. I started leveling GLD and was very happy I could HQ all my own armor and weapons instead of having to buy it.

I was expressing this to a guildmate of mine and he expressed his disdain for crafting. Some people like it and some people don't. I think nothing needs to be done except making it more relevant end-game.

i don't like this simply because i mostly craft for myself. i have all my gathering and crafting leveling together. it keeps it cost efficient for me. then later on i can make things for others that just don't feel like crafting. sometimes i often find i don't have the patience to do it and taking away the ability to have the other crafts at the same time would only make it more painful to want to do. I make my own armors and weapons for my lower level jobs and make stuff for others as well. i think maybe adding new crafting classes (masonry?) and recipes and maybe allowing for crafting of higher iLVL items could help. alot of people craft, but its also not for everyone. some will be turned off to it the minute they try it.

It's actually an investment to get your crafting and gathering classes up to 50 and properly geared to be able to effectively craft two-star items, and plenty of people don't want to invest that much time and effort. Given the cross-class item requirements, the crafting system is fairly unfriendly towards only levelling one or two crafting classes. I think it's fine as it is.

Agreed. Leveling every craft just saturates the market and creates too much supply and no demand. I hope in 2.2 you can choose a specialization and only take one craft from 50-100 like they did in 11.

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Originally Posted by Nadrojj

Agreed. Leveling every craft just saturates the market and creates too much supply and no demand. I hope in 2.2 you can choose a specialization and only take one craft from 50-100 like they did in 11.

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this will be ideal

right now i think alot of the market saturation has to do with those who get mob drops, don't craft, and think "hey, this is taking up inventory. maybe i could sell this"...they either don't care about, or understand how the market works. i'm seeing alot of items in various quantities set to 1 or 2 gil. i spend time and money buying some of these up in an attempt to be able to sell for more and sometimes it doesn't end up being a good investment as more random items get dropped back into the market for 1 or 2 gil.

You have 8 character slots per server meaning you could still level all crafts it would just create an inconvenience of having to log out and log in to each character.

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Originally Posted by Nadrojj

Agreed. Leveling every craft just saturates the market and creates too much supply and no demand. I hope in 2.2 you can choose a specialization and only take one craft from 50-100 like they did in 11.

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This is why i think they should have 1 class per character.

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Originally Posted by Nadrojj

Agreed. Leveling every craft just saturates the market and creates too much supply and no demand. I hope in 2.2 you can choose a specialization and only take one craft from 50-100 like they did in 11.

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Being unable to level everything goes against the entire concept of the armoury system. A bigger issue lies with how easy it is to level crafting classes. So I think a compromise would be to slow down drastically the rate at which crafting levels are gained - i.e. nerf the stupid crafting leves so you don't go from 50 to whatever the new cap is in 3 days. That way, people would still have the opportunity to level everything if they desired but there would be a massive artificial grind barrier, effectively achieving the same goal.

It's funny how people use the whole excuse of the 'it goes against the armory system' when it benefits them. When it comes to coil/ct people are quick to point out the contrary.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

Being unable to level everything goes against the entire concept of the armoury system. A bigger issue lies with how easy it is to level crafting classes. So I think a compromise would be to slow down drastically the rate at which crafting levels are gained - i.e. nerf the stupid crafting leves so you don't go from 50 to whatever the new cap is in 3 days. That way, people would still have the opportunity to level everything if they desired but there would be a massive artificial grind barrier, effectively achieving the same goal.

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While I do agree that you level crafting classes RIDICULOUSLY fast in this game, you have to be careful because if people find that grinding on items is going to be better than doing the leves, its going to end up flooding the market with things people are leveling on.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

Being unable to level everything goes against the entire concept of the armoury system. A bigger issue lies with how easy it is to level crafting classes. So I think a compromise would be to slow down drastically the rate at which crafting levels are gained - i.e. nerf the stupid crafting leves so you don't go from 50 to whatever the new cap is in 3 days. That way, people would still have the opportunity to level everything if they desired but there would be a massive artificial grind barrier, effectively achieving the same goal.

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As long as the entire player base has the ability to craft every single thing in the game on one character the markets will continue to be saturated. Crafting is insanely easy and quick, this is true, but if they slowed down leveling (which they will never do in a game that they try to appeal to casuals) you can still grind away and hit 50 every class and have the same result we have now. The markets are terrible on Balmung, with a no blind bid auction house people can undercut you by one gil as soon as you list something. HQ's being listed for less than nq's no one in their right mind will buy a more expensive nq item if they can get an hq item for cheap. The omg I need to make money NOW mentality of most people leads to them selling items for as cheap as possible so they can get their gil as quick as possible. It's a terrible system and it's only going to get worse if they don't do something about it soon.

They would have to also drastically slow down the rate at which combat classes level to be fair. There are people that only enjoy playing crafting classes and to do so only to them would be extremely one sided. Having the ability to level every crafting class on every character was great on paper but terrible in execution due to the impact it had on the economy. Just the posts in this thread prove it as multiple people say, I like to craft for myself, I like to be self-sufficient... which is exactly what causes people to not have to buy things and kills the economy.

Adding specializations 'may' help some but since it will only really affect people that are high level crafters it does not help the fact that the current state of the game economy will turn off new players that enter and find they cannot make anything anyone wants because everyone is making things for themselves so they leave. But Square has been very transparent that they don't care about the crafters more than being token class artifacts from 1.0. They are making an arcade game, not a sandbox with a working economy. But things could change if they lose enough money.

I would welcome a blind auction house like what was in FFXI where people didn't know how much gil stuff was in for, but unfortunately I don't think that will effect the undercutting. People will still undercut, maybe even more, if they don't know the prices that are in there at the moment. More recipes, more levels, and only allowing one of your crafts to that level (which is something FFXI did) was very good. I have a hard time believing that they won't implement this in the future.

As more and more expansions and updates come out with more crafting recipes this should eventually happen. Expansion comes out, some hard mob with a low drop is introduced, and you take that said drop and craft a weapon with it and then sell that weapon for a premium. This can easily happen, and I only hope that Yoshi-P is well aware of the things that FFXI did do right, and introduce them accordingly.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

Being unable to level everything goes against the entire concept of the armoury system.

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^This.

One of the standout features of this game, compared to other MMO's, was supposed to be the Armory system, which allowed for cross-classing of skills. Having one person level up only one crafting class per character goes against this feature. So I don't see why that should ever happen.

Hello everyone.

Please take away the ability to level all war and magic classes
everyone can play all war/magic classes on one character its silly.

I have all war and magic classes at 50 and i think well now what?
Everyone else can do it too so who you going to fight mobs for?

I would happily take some kind of week long lock out of all war jobs except 1
which i could choose each week same for magic classes.

Any feedback on this is welcome good or bad but please keep it civil

The only reason to even start on crafting is to begin your relic quest. One and two star recipes are totally irrelevant now that you can get superior gear from a combination of myth, CT, and coil drops like candy on Halloween.

Materia? Who needs it? Certainly not end game raiders. The only market for crafters is among other crafters.

On topic, specializing in a certain craft would help the "market" and a much needed interaction between players and other classes. Isn't that what MMOs are about? Interaction, rather than using people as a tool to get to the end as fast as possible?

Heh, my own little rant I guess. Sorry.

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Originally Posted by Tazo

It's funny how people use the whole excuse of the 'it goes against the armory system' when it benefits them. When it comes to coil/ct people are quick to point out the contrary.

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I know, right? It's almost like different people have different opinions about things and not everyone is part of a hivemind!

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Originally Posted by Autumnfire

While I do agree that you level crafting classes RIDICULOUSLY fast in this game, you have to be careful because if people find that grinding on items is going to be better than doing the leves, its going to end up flooding the market with things people are leveling on.

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That's a fair point. I don't see how specialization will prevent flooding either though, but it would definitely be to a lesser degree.

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Originally Posted by Nadrojj

As long as the entire player base has the ability to craft every single thing in the game on one character the markets will continue to be saturated. Crafting is insanely easy and quick, this is true, but if they slowed down leveling (which they will never do in a game that they try to appeal to casuals) you can still grind away and hit 50 every class and have the same result we have now. The markets are terrible on Balmung, with a no blind bid auction house people can undercut you by one gil as soon as you list something. HQ's being listed for less than nq's no one in their right mind will buy a more expensive nq item if they can get an hq item for cheap. The omg I need to make money NOW mentality of most people leads to them selling items for as cheap as possible so they can get their gil as quick as possible. It's a terrible system and it's only going to get worse if they don't do something about it soon.

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All they have to do is use the same logic they used with housing. They expected people to be able to afford houses by 3 months and set the starting price and depreciation rate to fit those expectations. Obviously didn't work with housing because of poor expectations but similar concept. Estimate how much grinding people will do and set the exp requirements so that one craft can be maxed in 3~6 months. This way, you have a soft barrier preventing people from maxing more than 2 or 3 crafts before the next expansion comes out. The downside to this is that no one may reach the top tier crafting recipes for a while but it makes achieving those crafts that much more rewarding.

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Originally Posted by odie

right now i think alot of the market saturation has to do with those who get mob drops, don't craft, and think "hey, this is taking up inventory. maybe i could sell this"...they either don't care about, or understand how the market works. i'm seeing alot of items in various quantities set to 1 or 2 gil. i spend time and money buying some of these up in an attempt to be able to sell for more and sometimes it doesn't end up being a good investment as more random items get dropped back into the market for 1 or 2 gil.

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The market saturation also has to do with the fact that there's absolutely no competition in materials. There's no competition to get that silver ore, so there's no limit on the silver ingots, so there's no limit to the amount of silver-based items on the market.

There is a -slight- limit on gold and other things like that, but only in how often they can be gathered; You can still have fifty people mining the same node and collecting the maximum amount of gold from the node, and now with philosophy tomes being dime a dozen on the markets now, there's little to no limiting factor in regards to the Darksteel/Vanya/etc sets.

Let everyone be able to make everything, that's fine. It's the availability of the materials that's letting every single crafter throw one of every item up onto the market.

I never understood the argument of everyone being able to do everything as being a bad thing. Yes, every player has the potential to play every class on one character should they so choose, but how many people actually go out of their way to do that? Don't confuse possibility with inevitability. Even if you were capped to 1-2 crafting class(es) per character it doesn't really change anything since you could simply make a character for each class and fit them all onto one account.

Crafting could certainly use changes, but limiting how many classes you can have on one character isn't one of them.

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Originally Posted by Lyrinn

Being unable to level everything goes against the entire concept of the armoury system. A bigger issue lies with how easy it is to level crafting classes. So I think a compromise would be to slow down drastically the rate at which crafting levels are gained - i.e. nerf the stupid crafting leves so you don't go from 50 to whatever the new cap is in 3 days. That way, people would still have the opportunity to level everything if they desired but there would be a massive artificial grind barrier, effectively achieving the same goal.

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I also agree the crafting classes are to easy to level i got all crafting and gathering classes level 50 in half the time
it took me to get smithing to max level in 11.

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Originally Posted by Nadrojj

Agreed. Leveling every craft just saturates the market and creates too much supply and no demand. I hope in 2.2 you can choose a specialization and only take one craft from 50-100 like they did in 11.

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that idea had been ask since 1.xx but it have never been answer and eventually get shot down. Or they can just make more demand on crafting gear:
Lets say Dungeon loot ilvl90 will drop green most of the time and 10% or 5% or lesser for blue gear
Crafter can make armor/wep ilvl95 with NQ + 2 meld = green gear and HQ > green gear and +4 meld < Blue gear

just an exampler that can make a demand for crafter gear, and job ike ALC can make required material for the gear for exampler

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Originally Posted by Nadrojj

Agreed. Leveling every craft just saturates the market and creates too much supply and no demand. I hope in 2.2 you can choose a specialization and only take one craft from 50-100 like they did in 11.

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That, like other people have said goes against the Be Anything(armory system) concept of the game. It would also kill any desire for me to stick with crafting because I wouldn't be able to choose, since you kind of need them all. This isn't a game design around limits and making alts to do other stuff. Alts don't really work due to the stupid RMT measures they have in place, can't share or trade anything directly.

Do you really think, that just because everyone can level everything, that is the Sole reason why the market it Saturated? Sure its a reason, but a small one. Only relevant for mats and crafter/gather gear.

In my FC a lot of people don't craft, many that do only focus on 1 or 2,(or if planning to eventually level everything, they still only focus on 1 or 2 at a time and just do daily GC quests on others). Not many people try to be self-sufficient and do everything.

I think the reason the market is Saturated is, because, crafting is completely irrelevant to any battle classes(You could remove it entirely from the game and a lot of people wouldn't notice until they get to needing their Relic melded). Quest gear is the same as NQ, also all NQ is sold by NPCs. Dungeon gear is the same or many cases better than HQ/melded(plus its out leveled quickly), Not to mention there is no end-game crafted gear past 70, even then you have to penta-meld it, to be equal/better than the easy to get philo tome gear. Potions are almost useless, low effect times with high reuse times.Though heard new PvP stuff works better, haven't really done any PvP. Food is OK, but really, specific class food is only needed as a crutch at endgame, due to lockouts, prior to then what you eat doesn't really matter, unless your under geared.

Then on the crafting side. you have almost all mats needed for level 1-30 available for purchase from NPC venders and Higher level mats are over farmed due to treasure map farming. Plus there are too many different mats, with Most mats, other than Ore, Logs, and Alumen , only having 1 or 2 uses.

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Originally Posted by geordie

Please take away the ability to level all crafts and gathering classes
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I have all crafts and gathering classes at 50

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why do you want something you have already to be taken away from others? getting everything to 50 is my only goal in this game and if they take it away ill stop playing that day

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Originally Posted by AmnesiaHaze

why do you want something you have already to be taken away from others? getting everything to 50 is my only goal in this game and if they take it away ill stop playing that day

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I don't want it taken away from others i want it taken away from everyone including myself.

I just don't see how everyone having the ability to do everything on one character is good for the games economy as a whole
even dol and dom cant change job and use that job in a dungeon as and when needed which was why i suggested
a lockout of some kind.

Like it or not the ability to level all classes and easily change between them is one of the basic design aspects of the game. And limiting a character to only one DoH class still wouldn't stop me from having them all maxed, I'd just have to do it on different characters. Cause I like crafting. I'm at 50 on all the DoH/DoL classes but my highest combat class is only 34. Most of my FC's members consider me insane. Which I am.

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Originally Posted by geordie

I don't want it taken away from others i want it taken away from everyone including myself.

I just don't see how everyone having the ability to do everything on one character is good for the games economy as a whole
even dol and dom cant change job and use that job in a dungeon as and when needed which was why i suggested
a lockout of some kind.

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yes , but you've already reached that goal , and you want to deny others the satisfaction of achieving the same

the problem is there is no solid gil income in this game , if people have more money they will also spend more on markets for stuff you craft

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Originally Posted by AmnesiaHaze

yes , but you've already reached that goal , and you want to deny others the satisfaction of achieving the same

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I do see your point but as i said in my last post i did also suggest some kind of lockout this would allow you to level all crafts
but also force you into one crafting class per week this would also have the side effect of slowing down the rate at which
you could level all crafting and gathering classes.

I would rather they took them all away and forced everyone into one craft per character though i would get more satisfaction
knowing i was one of a few people with a certain craft than one of thousands with em all but everyone gets enjoyment from
different things.

I have a few crafts at 50 and I would gladly give up levels from them if they forced specialization. The way they let everyone craft anything makes crafting absolutely useless. The market is horrible.

Gonna have to disagree entirely, the armoury system is an essential system and a base design choice. How is it any different then when people have multiple characters on wow with all the crafting abilities and gathering at max? Everyone has the choice of getting all classes to 50, but will they do it? NOPE. There will always be those who dont tank, heal, dps, or craft and stick to one thing. For example, I have no desire to level goldsmithing, alchemy or any of the tank classes.

Yes, the only significant thing you can do with crafting is relic materia melding. Looking what the crafting classing can offer, they don't have much of any significance to the outcome of the game. For examples....

Culinarian, alchemist
People in dungeons don't use food buffs, or potions (from what I see, next to none).
From the short usage times (2-3 hits and blows) and the extremely long recast times, with very little added damage to boot, I don't blame them for not using potions. Healing potions are a joke.

Leatherworker, Weaver, goldsmith, blacksmith, armorer
There's better armor in dungeons.
End game tombstone armor is better than any crafter can produce.

Carpenter
Really, if an fc buys a 50-200 million gil house, don't you think they already have a 50 carpenter to build everything for them?

Not saying to block people from crafting all crafts (no nerfing please!), just saying to make crafting more indispensible for dungeoning, so that people want to buy them and see them as a value in the game, instead of something optional and unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by geordie

Hello everyone.

Please take away the ability to level all crafts and gathering classes
everyone can gather and craft everything on one character its silly.

I have all crafts and gathering classes at 50 and i think well now what?
Everyone else can do it too so who you going to craft stuff for?

I would happily take some kind of week long lock out of all crafts except 1
which i could choose each week same for gathering classes.

Any feedback on this is welcome good or bad but please keep it civil :)

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No thank you, even FFXI didn't have this. You can do everything on one character as it should be.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

No thank you, even FFXI didn't have this. You can do everything on one character as it should be.

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You cant level all crafts to max on one character on ffxi you could do it with multiple characters on same account though.

It's not exactly easy to get everything to 50, unless there's some secret I'm missing. Plus, OP's idea would take away the use of cross class abilities for crafting, which at higher levels really helps, so not really seeing where that is in anyway a good idea.

You're all more than welcome to only focus on one craft though, the rest of us will just enjoy being able to craft what we want. :)

So... People will make alts, level them to 20, then level their crafts to 50, and have every craft to 50 anyways.

I don't craft much in this game, but in wow I had 5 80's in WOTLK and I had Tailoring + Leatherworking, Fishing + Blacksmith, JewelCrafter etc, all leveled to max accross all of my alts.

Putting a limiter on it doesn't stop it, it just inconveniences people.

We already have to level alts to run Raids more than once a week, why give us another reason to level an alt. SE should be making it so we can play multiple jobs in the content and level all crafts on one character, not the other way around.

1. Eliminate all 1-49 dungeon gear drops and Class quest gear rewards - replace with special mats for new recipes (see #2)
2. Introduce new endgame crafted gear recipes (ilvl 60, 85)
3. Crafting is fixed.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

No thank you, even FFXI didn't have this. You can do everything on one character as it should be.

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You could not level all crafts to max level on FF11.

I just don't know, this whole Armoury System just seems to make people think the wrong way. I say this every time, the Armoury System allows you to play every class, but it should not allow you to play every class EQUALLY EFFICIENTLY. Life needs choices.