i90 AF and the 'Primal' weapons.

Ok. Ok. So.
I might've missed something where the i90 AF was explained lore-wise, but... perhaps I didn't.
So we get these Allagan tomestones of Mythology, hand them in at Rowena's shop and take our gear. Darklight has been explained (though not quite how she managed to get so much of the stuff!) and normal AF armour is explained... but not the i90 AF.
So just where did these pieces come from? For instance, Paladin AF is given to the protectors of the Sultanate, so where does the Valour gear come from? [Repeat question for every other job.]
And with the upcoming AF2 in patch 2.2, will there be an explanation as to where that's coming from?
Now, with patch 2.1 we've gotten what can colloquially be named simply 'primal weapons', with no explanation as to why they're so powerful or where they might have come from - or why Rowena has them.
I'll quit while I'm ahead, but if someone has the ability to clarify, that'd be great. ;3

As for DL (as well as Jobs, etc), I've always assumed that, story wise, there are only 8 (or 9) Warriors of Light: 1 for each available Job as they are generally "The Only One" of whatever the job is. The DL gear either belonged to the DarkLight Raiders (more or less one for each class) and so Rowena doesn't actually have more than one set of each set of armor except possible one of the magic or tank ones. Granted, that might not actually be the case, but that's how I interpret it.
As for the existence of Primal Weapons, I would assume the Primals created them for their followers. How did Rowena get them? I don't have any theories on that for the moment

Darklight isn't the issue, that's been covered - it was the Darklight Raiders, as you said, who perished in Cutter's Cry despite being a notorious band of mercenaries. As quoted from a certain mod...

Quote:

---

Despite their quality, however, there are doubts regarding their authenticity, considering the sheer quantity she seems to possess.

---

The 'primal weapons' don't seem to be linked to any of the primals, however: Not like the actual primal weapons which directly drop from the bosses themselves in hard mode.
They don't show any elemental aspects, nor do they appear to be anything like the other primal weapons. They're so far detached from the primal deities that I'm surprised they retain the name. "Rowena weapons" seems more suited.
Still, that does beg the question I presented earlier; just what are they, and where did they come from?

[EDIT] I'm going to call out someone saying the words "shrouded in mystery" before it happens.[/EDIT]

Rowena is such a shady dealer of incredibly powerful artifacts that are rivalled only by allagan creations.
She kind of deserves her own mini-expansion down the line, I say

I've always imagined her and her crones as being some kind of side boss thing, where they use the weapons and armour they horde against you. Kinda like Moogles, one for each job. Maybe even force her to own up to her fraudulent wares! Not that we'd stop buying them or anything...
She's always reminded me a little of Naja Salaheem, if you played XI's TOAU expansion.
Still, it'd be hella fun to go against her. She's the shadiest dealer.

If I remember right, someone mentions her possibly working for an Ishgardian nobleman, so we may very well see more of her background in the expansion that covers that.

Rowena strikes me as just a regular ol' self-made capitalist. She even staffs her shop with helpers just like herself - girls out of a job who have a knack for driving a hard bargain. It's that Allagan artifact-hungry Ishgardian benefactor of hers that raises my suspicion. In Version 1.0, the Templar, Harlequin, and Buccaneer sets were from this benefactor's personal collection, which he offered for trade as soon as the he heard that adventurers had been stumbling upon Allagan Runestones in the field. It looks to me as if many of those who took him up on this offer answered Ishgards call for aid in clearing the Darkhold and didn't fare too well...

I'm always excited when SE releases some background info on an armor set, as it makes them feel like so much more than grind bait, but if there's no backstory on Rowena pieces, I just assume they're more pieces of this benefactor's personal collection. Too bad I won't be able to keep more if it. Square Enix's policy of making more and more armor is starting to conflict with my free inventory. There should really be some storage mechanism for Blue/Purple items, even if it requires I collect the full set before storing it.

It's very logical that AF 90 is just improved versions of the existing gear. Relics were replicated and enhanced using Thavnairian Mist so it's fairly obvious that AF armor can be improved. Not only that Rowena has in her possession a wealth of information that refer back to the creation and story behind the Relics themselves. Where did she get it? She may have found a way to piece together information from the Allagan Tomes. She creates items for us so we will be willing to trade the most valuable commodity in Eorzea, Allagan information. She also has a very big interest in the Amdapor as well for information. Odds are her company probably got started with Darklight replicas and have been in business ever since. The funny part is she's more likely an information broker than a Weapon/Armor supplier.

On kind of the same topic, where does the Holy Shield come from? I did not do a Relic Reborn in 1.23, so I don't know if it was ever explained there. Now, however, the shield is never even mentioned in the quest, nor (as far as I can remember) in the tome the Song of Tristam that we get from Rowena in exchange for an Amdapor glyph. Not one word about a shield. Then suddenly he gives one to us without any explanation what it is, where it comes from or why he's giving it to us.

On a side note, it would seem Rowena has a lot of rich customers, many Ishgardians wants some primal foci on their fireplace. But I do wonder who THE Ishgardian noble is, that was able to collect large amounts of actual primal weapons in v1! Maybe we'll finally get to see him when Ishgard opens.

Quote:

---

Relics were replicated and enhanced using Thavnairian Mist so it's fairly obvious that AF armor can be improved.

---

However, we don't trade our AF in like we do with our relics - they exist as separate entities, if we traded in our AF and some mist that'd be job done, no lore needed, their existence is explained. I was going to put something about that in the original topic, but the character limit made me chop the post down to half its size. Feh.

Quote:

---

But I do wonder who THE Ishgardian noble is, that was able to collect large amounts of actual primal weapons in v1!

---

I'd like to think of him as a retired adventurer, perhaps a past warrior of light, who after countless battles with his companions watches as they all fall not to their enemies, but to the hands of time, and finds himself in possession of the artifacts they wielded in battle. It would be nice to meet him, though.

Why don't we just kill Rowena and take all the gear for free. Seems way easier than killing Primals.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MythToken

Why don't we just kill Rowena and take all the gear for free. Seems way easier than killing Primals.

---

Haven't you seen all the stuff she owns? She probably has, like, item level 1000 gear stored somewhere. She'd kill us instantly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MythToken

Why don't we just kill Rowena and take all the gear for free. Seems way easier than killing Primals.

---

She'd just return, and continue to wipe parties who face her in duty finder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MythToken

Why don't we just kill Rowena and take all the gear for free. Seems way easier than killing Primals.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gwaeron

Haven't you seen all the stuff she owns? She probably has, like, item level 1000 gear stored somewhere. She'd kill us instantly.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kirol

She'd just return, and continue to wipe parties who face her in duty finder.

---

LOL you guys

You can't kill her because "My secret die with me, fools!" I have feeling she is that type

For the Primal weapons, let's not forget we could get Totems from the chests to turn in to Rowena to get the Weapon. I view it sorta like this, we defeat Ifrit and part of his body is leftover such as a horn which is then made into a weapon. For gaming and grinding sake this weapon is random and put in the chest at the end, while Lore wise it would be say that one item getting turned into a weapon without us crafting it (though Lore/storywise it'd be more REAL for us to make it) maybe a magical Dwarf hammering out the weapon within seconds of the win~.

As for the Myth drops (reskinned AF from actual storylines) I think it's like this. Rowena had seen us Adventurers in the AF gear and decided to create it but upgraded. After all most of the AF Gear is old and passed down handmedowns and there's only so many of the pieces. So Rowena now profits by mass producing these items with upgraded features. Same with the Darklight, in 1.0 we LITERALLY obtained the real Darklight by finding it as leftovers. Technically Darklight should have only been in Cutter's Cry since that's where they met their deaths, but from again game play stand point we had 2 dungeons to grind for it. Maybe this is why we no longer have unique stats for all this gear, because Rowena is mass producing it cheaply and selling it without the unique stats~ (jokes :( I miss unique stats).

Guys, forget Rowena, where the heck is Jonathas getting all his gear from? That man hands out solid gold pickaxes and gilded magitek walkers in exchange for nothing more than a good story.

Well, I think he's just bending the laws of physics and dreaming all this stuff into existence, ala FFX. Where the hell are the mods to answer these questions?! I want to know! ^^
With a game with such depth as this, I'm sure we'd all like to know~ ^^

Well considering that Rowena has the DL armor, there are two possibilities: she is either a grave robber or a counterfeiter. The fact that the player is "the only one" of each Job is untrue. There are more of each Job or at least there used to be more in some cases. Just like the Relics are remade versions of notable members of our Jobs, i90 AF gear can be armor from past members of our jobs. They could have been either remade like Gerolt did with the relics or taken straight off the corpses of their former owns; possibly some sort of combination of the two.

The same holds true for the Primal EX weapons. I was looking at the Gae Bolg and comparing it with the Holy Lance and they look VERY similar. The name "Holy Lance" also makes me believe that it possibly belonged to an Azure Dragoon that instead of fighting dragons, was charged with protecting the Holy See(or whatever the name of the leader of Ishgard was). It lacks the wings that help stabilize Jump flight which would be suitable for indoor guard use, it's embellishments would also be suitable to be aside the holy throne. It would also explain the stat drop if the Holy Lance is just a ceremonial Gae Bolg-type lance. You don't need a Gae Bolg-type Lance if all you're looking to kill is would-be Dravanian assassins.

I have no idea about the other EX weapons, but that's my theory for the Holy Lance.
As far as AF2 armor is concerned, it could be as simple as that the Adventurer had armor made specifically for him/her or perhaps that they perform a deep spiritbond with their existing armor. I wouldn't be surprised if AF2 required one to fully spiritbond with i90 AF because I have noticed that would took a VERY long time to do.

Quote:

---

I was looking at the Gae Bolg and comparing it with the Holy Lance and they look VERY similar.

---

In the fact that they're long and pointy?
The colour scheme is completely off, the shape is off, there is little in the way of embellishment on the holy lance compared to the Gae Bolg; they're just as different as a Weathered spear and the Gae Bolg.
Graverobbing, though, you might be onto something there.
Darklight has been debunked as being counterfeit by mods, by the way.
And even if the comparison were to be right, take a look at the Thyrus vs the Primal weapon for WHM... one's a sleek shiney gold-lined pole based upon Bacchus' "Thyrsus" and the other is... a wooden face with creepy moving eyes.
The similarities end with the type of weapon, they are all exclusively new models and all lack an explanation of just where they've come from and the source of their power. Hence why I started this thread, to try and get some answers.

Seeing as the primal weapons are based off FFIII weapons which are found in the crystal tower or areas connected to crystal tower...


Rowena probably got the weapons from the digging that was done around the Crystal Tower.

The weapons themselves are not connected to the Primals at all. This is even explained by Urianger after you kill the 3 extreme primals, he just says you need to get a more powerful weapon to deal with the challenges up ahead, so he directs you to Rowena.

Aureliami is right and has called me out on this massive oversight! Most of these weapons are either from Eureka or the Crystal tower, one or two being from Job mastery in the 3ds remake.
So that definitely links them to the Crystal tower. (Very good! We're getting somewhere now. ;p )
And that puts the weapons as being displaced from the tower a long time before we were around, so there's that.
Now that leaves the AF2 question still to be answered. ;o

Well if we doin it Skyrim style, Rowena might be a god/goddess in disguise or a herald to a certain god in which the AF+1 set is either a reforged Gerolt style set from the future or an original pristine set in which the AF set is the cheap copycat of it (I mean like Shattotoo original blm suit compared to the mass manufactured BLM AF set?). So that means she's Thaliak or Althyk in disguise or their herald doin whatever agenda their master aims for!

I'm not sure about the mechanics behind conjury and thaumaturgy or how the weapon mechanics work in order to augment the magicks.
But the following strikes me as strange:
* The Crystal Tower is the tomb of the first Allagan emperor
* Allag was founded in the Third Umbral Era.
* Allag flourished during the Third Astral Era.
* Allag fell as the Fourth Umbral Era started.
* The discovery of magick brings the Fifth Astral Era.

Why does the crystal tower contain weapons that augments magick? Did any other civilisation after the fall of Allag guard the tower (and left weapons behind) for some reason? We know Nael van Darnus is of Allagan descent and that his house are the keepers of Allagan secrets, so nothing is impossible. One thing seems pretty certain though, if the weapons are from the crystal tower, at least some of them were placed there long after the tower was built, and most likely after the fall of the civilisation that built it. But it does not seem unlikely that a construction like the crystal tower would be worshipped in some way even after the fall of the Allagan empire.

Does anyone remember if they mentioned when the defense mechanisms were put in place in the cutscenes leading up to Crystal Tower? They could have been found outside as well (which seems likely, since no-one, including Rowena, should have been able to salvage the tower before the defenses were broken). Maybe they are the weapons of others who have tried to enter, but failed...

Edit: This also makes me wonder... Where (and when) the heck do the Allagan Grimoire of Healing/Casting, Allagan Scepter and Allagan Cane come from? Especially the grimoires, how did the Allag know about the geometrical and mathematical figures required for arcane magicks that weren't invented until the Fifth Astral Era?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gwaeron

Edit: This also makes me wonder... Where (and when) the heck do the Allagan Grimoire of Healing/Casting, Allagan Scepter and Allagan Cane come from? Especially the grimoires, how did the Allag know about the geometrical and mathematical figures required for arcane magicks that weren't invented until the Fifth Astral Era?

---

maybe they were magitek focus points that the allagan used to make a psuedo form of conjury or thurmatagy. or they were exactly what the game calls them...canes, scepters, and books. we just know how to use them as weapons.

The possibility remains that magick was known to Allag, they seem to have an incredible knowledge of everything else. Compare how advanced the Binding Coil and crystal tower are compared to the rest of the world.
Notice also that the Garleans seem to mimic a lot of this technology for their own purpose - considering that Van Darnus was of Allagan descent it's not too far-fetched to think that he had an understanding of how these things worked.
But then, where did the Allag get their power from in such vast quantities so quickly?
Well, look at it this way; Nael van Darnus was granted his power from his Deity. Given that he is a descendant of Allag, it's entirely possible that they also worshiped the same entity.
Bahamut, the elder primal.
It's pretty reasonable to assume such, and that Bahamut could have given the Allag the technologies that defined their culture. It was only after their destruction and imprisonment of Bahamut that magic became lost.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kirol

The possibility remains that magick was known to Allag <snip>

---

I'd bet my bottom gil that if Allag knew of summoners and primals, they knew of magick; especially with all that MAGIck TEKnologie. Possibly it's been independently discovered in different ways over time, like how Arcanists perform a summoning ritual with math, or perhaps the Fifth Astral Era discoveries were a certain type of magick. I'm not freshly versed on any of those topics right now ><

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kirol

Notice also that the Garleans seem to mimic a lot of this technology for their own purpose

---

That's really the only way to explain all the Iron Giants and Death Claws in both Crystal Tower and Nero's contributions to the Garlean army. I'm wondering if they found a stash int he same place they dug up Ultima Weapon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kirol

But then, where did the Allag get their power from in such vast quantities so quickly?

---

No idea! They had a thousand years; Earth's came pretty far in the last thousand years. Then again, Ishgard had about 1500 and they didn't get all that far, did they.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kirol

Well, look at it this way; Nael van Darnus was granted his power from his Deity. Given that he is a descendant of Allag, it's entirely possible that they also worshiped the same entity. Bahamut, the elder primal.

---

You lose me on this one. The Allag enslaved dragons and the dragons seem pretty pissed right now. Until I see a better connection to make, I'd go as far as to say they hold a grudge, and that slavery thing might even be what started the Dragon Wars that Ishgard is still fighting. Once upon a time, via the Theologian quest's clues in 1.0, I'd have said that perhaps the Dravanian Horde summoned Bahamut to save them from the Allag, who in turn enslaved Bahamut as the ultimate weapon... but there are some pretty big holes in that theory and I'm waiting for an expansion pack before I make any claims that are more than 80% likely to be dead wrong, lol.

Quote:

---

The Allag enslaved dragons and the dragons seem pretty pissed right now.

---

And there are so many people having trouble with the little dragons, just wait until we bout the big bad wolf himself!
However, I think we're detracting from the point at hand a little bit here... No doubt all questions will be answered in time, but ... I would like this one cleared up for continuity's sake. :3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gwaeron

I'm not sure about the mechanics behind conjury and thaumaturgy or how the weapon mechanics work in order to augment the magicks.
But the following strikes me as strange:
* The Crystal Tower is the tomb of the first Allagan emperor
* Allag was founded in the Third Umbral Era.
* Allag flourished during the Third Astral Era.
* Allag fell as the Fourth Umbral Era started.
* The discovery of magick brings the Fifth Astral Era.

Why does the crystal tower contain weapons that augments magick?

---

Allag certainly knew of magick, and their civilization was apparently the dominant cultural influence in the world at the time of the third astral era -- their fall would have probably been a new dark age, and the fifth astral era probably marked an independent re-discovery of magick. At least that's how i'd interpret it!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gwaeron

Did any other civilisation after the fall of Allag guard the tower (and left weapons behind) for some reason?

---

If i'm not mistaken, don't the gigas claim rightful dominion over the ruins at st. coinach's find? I think Acheron looks a bit giant-ish...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

No idea! They had a thousand years; Earth's came pretty far in the last thousand years. Then again, Ishgard had about 1500 and they didn't get all that far, did they.

---

Hey, the western world hasn't yet had to tussle with an infinite army of mind controlling dragon mutants, so credit where credit is due! (and it is all due mighty halone, may she see our enemies driven before us)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MythToken

Why don't we just kill Rowena and take all the gear for free. Seems way easier than killing Primals.

---

attacking shopkeepers in video games tends to be a bad idea...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Norondor

If i'm not mistaken, don't the gigas claim rightful dominion over the ruins at st. coinach's find? I think Acheron looks a bit giant-ish...

---

I had that same thought, at first. "Could it be? I mean look at him!" But could it really be? This game has gone to extreme lengths to show the illusion of organic growth and development in language, culture, history, and religion. Even the word Dalamud is just the word Bahamut distorted by "a few thousand years of imperfect historical record." If the Gigas were truly the distorted descendants of the Allag, that would mean that, somewhere along the evolutionary line, they lost a finger and two toes, which seems like a crazy stretch of biological tendency. The five fingered hand is so far back in the evolutionary chain that it's part of the human arm, the dolphin flipper, and the bat wing - yet somehow it might have been lost in the 3,000 years between Allagan and Gigant? I'd be disappointed in someone at HQ. A firm thrashing would be in order, kupo. They'd have to apologize in front of absolutely everybody.

Now... oh, wait.

<puts darksteelfoil hat on>

Now, that means that the gigantism shown by Acheron was probably part of his modifications. After all, the stairs in the Labyrinth of Ancients are for "normal" people. Surely Acheron wasn't the only monstrously modified man they left on auto-pilot in their fall. By the time the wandering races appeared in the by-then empty Eorzea, there could have been a few of them wandering around... Twelve of them, maybe. I bet the sight of THAT would have inspired some stories. Giant heroes that helped get the realm in order before disappearing... and over time, legends of heroes become legends of gods.

But is that in line with Square Enix's inspiration of Ancient Greece? Twelve "Olympic" figures who seal primordial forces away to rule in their stead? And after the Titans were sealed away, the Olympians took hecatonchiers as slaves. Perhaps the Gigants weren't descendend from the Allag but from those that served them. Perhaps the Allag created them to be a slave race using early methods of the same modifications Acheron underwent, and they've been using the same slave traditions to separate Gigas/Giant/Hecatonchier ever since. The Gigas claim to be descendant of the Allag, but, if this nonsense I'm rambling is true, who's going to call them out on that bluff? I don't see any Allag around to challenge the claim.

<takes darksteelfoil hat off>

What was I talking about? Oh, right. A firm thrashing, kupo.

The problem with the whole gigantic thing is with how SE has distinguished bosses from regular versions of things. Look at the pirate in Sastasha for example. He's way too big to be a regular Hyur, he dwarfs those Roegs, and I'm actually pretty disappointed in how bosses have to be blown-up in proportion though I understand why from the game stand point...makes it easier for PS3 to target, another bad example of over-large beings being the Moogles in Good King Moggle Mog XIIth fight. Nael Van Darnus was pretty big, very tall, Elezen like in stature. Now if he's truly descended from Allagans and all Allagans are the size of Acheron, that's a huge leap in evolution for them to get so small in just around 5000 years. Bottle that magic up and sell it to people on diets.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Even the word Dalamud is just the word Bahamut distorted by "a few thousand years of imperfect historical record."

---

hell, it doesn't even take a thousand years, the difference between Dalamund and Bahamut is sloppy handwriting, remove the middle part of B and it becomes D, remove the right part of h and it's l, and an accidental smudge could make t look like a d.

And this works for both eorzean script and english


as for the gods being heroes of the allagan empire, I may have things a bit mixed up, but doesn't Nym predate Allag? in which case the gods=heroes thing would be impossible since they were around in Nymian times, or at least Oschon was

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pentacus

doesn't Nym predate Allag?

---

Nym was destroyed in the Sixth Umbral Era, "some fifteen centuries ago" after the War of the Magi, as a result of the tonberry sickness.

Not that it makes the possibilities I mentioned any more plausible; it just doesn't contradict that part, lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Nym was destroyed in the Sixth Umbral Era, "some fifteen centuries ago" after the War of the Magi, as a result of the tonberry sickness.

Not that it makes the possibilities I mentioned any more plausible; it just doesn't contradict that part, lol.

---

ah, for some reason I was thinking that it was around in the second astral era, man was I way off XD

Its "magic"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

What was I talking about? Oh, right. A firm thrashing, kupo.

---

There IS another option as well..That like the tonberry are mutations of one group then the gigants are mutated Allag.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Nym was destroyed in the Sixth Umbral Era, "some fifteen centuries ago" after the War of the Magi, as a result of the tonberry sickness.

Not that it makes the possibilities I mentioned any more plausible; it just doesn't contradict that part, lol.

---

See that Tonberry sickness could have had a variant that got the Allag as well...Or maybe the giants ARE the allag and what they were all along just that they lost their tech.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SorriorDragneel

See that Tonberry sickness could have had a variant that got the Allag as well...

---

Let's, for the sake of simplicity, call it the Allagan Rot. Oh wait..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SorriorDragneel

See that Tonberry sickness could have had a variant that got the Allag as well...Or maybe the giants ARE the allag and what they were all along just that they lost their tech.

---

i highly doubt that, seeing as how the armor in the Ragnarok is tailored from lalafell to roe sized.

unless the allag made slaves of the other races and used them as foot-soldiers...hmm...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by saber_alter

i highly doubt that, seeing as how the armor in the Ragnarok is tailored from lalafell to roe sized.

unless the allag made slaves of the other races and used them as foot-soldiers...hmm...

---

Or had auto sizing armor LOL....Seriosuly would explain ALOT if their armor auto sized.