2.15 PvP changes

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...ba39b67875a7af

Thanks to hudeski for letting me know these were out lol

1.4k For reset is awesome but...
1 tank 1 melee dps 1 ranged dps 1 heals required now for queueuing... ughhh

But yeah what's everyone's opinion on the changes?

EDIT: Two different theads so I copy and pasted what TaneshimaPopura put in the other thread

TaneshimaPopura -

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Originally Posted by TaneshimaPopura

Major changes :
Disease from Miasma no longer applies Heavy.
Storm's Eye and Miasma Healing reduction reduced to 20%.
Composition change requiring 1 Melee 1 Range DPS.
Summoner can no longer battle ress.
Reduction of consumables cost.

They have yet to address Summoner's burst/pet damage and Fairy Healing. SCH will be easier to train but harder to kill, even more so with the rigid requirement of 1 Melee + 1 Range DPS.

What is your thought on the changes? Personally there seem to be a balance about of good and bad changes. For one, I bet most of the tanks who did Chocobo Down materia is going to be pissed at Miasma 2 no longer having Heavy effect. WHM will be easier to live due to opposing team only having 1 Range DPS at all times. No more Zombie comps, and good healers now will find opportunity to heal instead of running due to double Healing debuff.

Problem is since PvP started most people did the exodus to SMN/BLM/BRD will the system even work with the lack of melee DPS in the first place for the new queue? I doubt it, just count how many Melee DPS are there compared to Range DPS who hit Rank 30. On top of that you only have 2 Melee DPS whereas you have 3 Range DPS.

Queues are going to be longer.

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So happy no more rez, but pretty surprised at the relative lack of SMN/SCH nerfs. Love the Weapon Throw change also.

Damn I made a more detail post after you =3. Well I put most of my foresight there so.. Don't want to jack other people's thread either but those 2 are far from the only problems.

My predictions were that they'd either remove battle res on SMN or nerf Miasma seeing as heavy and making you pretty much uncurable without Purify/Esuna/Leeches/Lustrate spam is insane. They did both, but this still leaves SMN as the most fearsome DPS. I somehow knew they had no idea the reason why SMN is so good has nothing to do with sitting at the beginning of the match and putting up DoTs like 99/100 SMNs do. They were/are totally oblivious to super powered Buff > Enkindle > Sprint > Wither > Aetheric Burst > Drain Drain Drain dead. So not much has really changed other than the fact that I no longer have to Swiftcast > Miasma the healer when I begin my chase.

I never even had a problem with SMN's battle res since it served virtually no purpose except near the end of a close match, where it admittedly was very clutch and possibly a little too good. Any res that's not an Divine Breath 2 is virtually useless against a competent team seeing as you get dunked right after your invulnerability wears off, but I suppose the change was for the better. RIP Miasma II. RIP queuing with my non-healer/non-tank friends.

`Cool 1 melee dps and 1 ranged dps per team O.o and healing reduction effect nerfed to 20%

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Originally Posted by TaneshimaPopura

Damn I made a more detail post after you =3. Well I put most of my foresight there so.. Don't want to jack other people's thread either but those 2 are far from the only problems.

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Damn haha, if its ok with you gonna copy and paste what u wrote there on

melee confirmed bad so we're forced to take them :V

Good patch. Even if i think the lost of heavy is a huge nerf for these 2 classes. SMN needed it but not the SCH. ;)

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Originally Posted by Drunge

Good patch. Even if i think the lost of heavy is a huge nerf for these 2 classes. SMN needed it but not the SCH. ;)

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Def did not need it, and SCH relied on the heavy more than SMN!

Another change I'm very worried about is what if it becomes more prudent, while leveling to reach 30, to solo/duo queue as healer and run to the other team and let them nuke you down ASAP? We don't know what the adjustment to exp/marks is from queuing that way yet, but if it's something like 18-20 exp for losing, possibly even 15, it could be much faster to go that route instead of actually trying to win since winning takes longer in theory than just giving up at the start of a match.

For instance, average time to burn down a non-premade or a not-so-good premade in 2.1 with a death squad of i70~90 SMN + SMN/BLM + SCH was about 35-50 seconds, giving roughly 30 exp. That's IF you keep playing against non-i90 premades, or good i70 premades. I would presume the average time it'd take to forfeit a match as healer is in the 30 second range, and say it gives 15 exp for the solo queue bonus, you could reasonably gain about 15 or more exp every minute and a half and no one could stop you. You get to "win" every time by giving up lol. That's a little less than 8 hours to gain 4,620 exp - rank 29 to 30 - in the most illegitimate way possible. What if the bonus is higher? Now, of course this could all be doomsday talk and the bonus for winning is just too sweet to pass up, but it's still something to think about :(

So only classes that can spam snares are whm/blm now? So if u want play scholar it is good 2 have blm and if u want play smn/bard it is good 2 have whm in ur party snare + sleep is pretty deadly combination for the one class

@ Epistane

Sure go ahead. We just want feedback thoughts not post count and replies.

Back on the topic, hence as stated nothing is done to remedy pets effect in the game. If I can push my BLM to get 2.5s > 2.22s cast expect the Fairies to be able to heal that quickly too, whereas WHM are still stuck with Regen ticking every 3s. Also the AoE heal for Eos will get a 11% CD cut which means 60s > 63s. SMN + MRD still bring the best combo being able to apply double Healing reduction.

Now the debate is to whether Monk or Dragoon will fill the other slot better? And I can honestly say... Monk will. One Ilm Punching away Protect is as good as 10% damage increase debuff, Miasma 2 not having heavy effect the monk is capable of glue-ing himself to a target with Fists of Wind. Now this really puts range DPS in a bind, cause normally say BLMs will get trained so hard they can hardly do any damage. And with current composition it is even more likely to get trained cause you need not worry about the other DPS being capable of taking down someone alone unless the skill gap is way to wide.... Even then...

You'd expect a Range DPS + Melee DPS to kill a competent BLM? Not in a million chance. A competent BLM will toy with you with Aetherial Manipulate, Surecast Sleep followed by blowing up your ass. And with the reduction of Healing reduction effect, its an easier task for me to hit the 1 minute CC reset timer before it is a confirm game over for you.

SE just practically acknowledge Melee comp problems but not doing anything solid to remedy the issue. The issue why melee is weak is cause of sprint, if you want the to stay in the game disable Sprint all together or allow for sprint without TP consumption and purely based off CD.

All casters have access to Blizzard 2 which is a PBAoE snare at a 2.0s cast. Personally I don't think the increase rate of xp and marks should be given to solo, duo or quadro queue. It will just funnel all the players into that comp and promote botting even more. Though I still don't get why Melee have to be restrained towards only depending on a PvP Skill to apply Heavy (Weapon Throw). It'd rather they have a skill which will cause Heavy and Weapon throw being a Ranged bind.

YES!!!! About time! I don't care about smn burst all i cared about was the fact that they can burst and i can never get to them. It never made sense as to why they had heavy when they can sprint and long range. This is perfect. Playing Monk will be 2x more fun. If weapon throw is used when sprint is used sprint will be down 100% of the time. Only thing to worry about now is Sleep.

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Originally Posted by TaneshimaPopura

All casters have access to Blizzard 2 which is a PBAoE snare at a 2.0s cast. Personally I don't think the increase rate of xp and marks should be given to solo, duo or quadro queue. It will just funnel all the players into that comp and promote botting even more. Though I still don't get why Melee have to be restrained towards only depending on a PvP Skill to apply Heavy (Weapon Throw). It'd rather they have a skill which will cause Heavy and Weapon throw being a Ranged bind.

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U can ask whm/blm in ur party apply heavy on target as melee. pvp is part of team play. I think its good that only few job have snare/sleep/stun/bind and not like in wow all classes have snare/interrupt/stun/silence/random cc

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Originally Posted by Deca

Def did not need it, and SCH relied on the heavy more than SMN!

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Tell me about it. . . Forces me to get blizzard two again. =_=

In practice, I agree with the miasma change; however they really smashed it pretty damn hard- harder than I expected. Miasma II will be completely worthless. Miasma is still a DOT and still is needed for fester, so that's fine. at least only utility was nerfed, not DPS.

The ressurection change was completely unnecessary. You revive with so little HP 1 hit from anything can kill you. I really don't get why people were crying about this.

With these changes, limiting teams to 1 caster/ranged means any team with a summoner is almost sure to lose now, since SMN has drastically reduced crowd control, while BLM is still sitting pretty with its 30 second sleeps. The balance changes don't feel very calculated, it seems like they took a sledgehammer to fix a problem that could have been fixed with a chaser hammer and peg.

(in before "boo hoo SMN OP ur main job got nerfed soooo butthurt!")

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Miasma II has no impact on the potency of Fester.

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It was a typo. I know this. Second sentence was supposed to be Miasma I and has been corrected.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

In practice, I agree with the miasma change; however they really smashed it pretty damn hard- harder than I expected. Miasma II will be completely worthless. Miasma II is still a DOT and still is needed for fester, so that's fine. at least only utility was nerfed, not DPS.

The ressurection change was completely unnecessary. You revive with so little HP 1 hit from anything can kill you. I really don't get why people were crying about this.

With these changes, limiting teams to 1 caster/ranged means any team with a summoner is almost sure to lose now, since SMN has drastically reduced crowd control, while BLM is still sitting pretty with its 30 second sleeps. The balance changes don't feel very calculated, it seems like they took a sledgehammer to fix a problem that could have been fixed with a chaser hammer and peg.

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Miasma II has no impact on the potency of Fester. Moreover, Fester is highly overrated in the sense that it has no part in globaling, and doesn't normally have priority over Bane and Energy Drain against good players. One of the only times I find myself using Fester is when the healer I'm bursting is able to Attune perfectly through stuns, gets DOT'd after being Hawk's Eye/Equanimity'd, and doesn't have the immediate purify in between the latency with which Attunement wears and I can actually resolve Fester. All these instances are quite rare in my experience.

@Sunako

Imagine your BLM/WHM being trained all day long. What can you as a melee do to alleviate the pressure? Nothing really, cause melee will be prudent in using their stuns as tank stuns are longer in duration. And what grinds the most is that most gap closer have a stun build in every one of them, just change them to either Heavy/Bind already. Nothing is more disturbing than having Shoulder Tackle up but not wanting to use it causes it DRs stun. Unlike WoW this game, CCs last a long time and have similarly long DRs. Meaning you'd only want to use your CCs when you absolutely have to and when it is meaningful.

In WoW I will stun first then do damage, in FF14 I'd do damage first then when a kill opportunity arises or when someone needs peels I'd stun. Heck, even if possible I'd refrain from using Lethargy as BLM so as to not cause someone to go on a shorter Heavy duration or use Blizzard 2 only when needed cause Freeze is a better option if the opportunity arises.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

With these changes, limiting teams to 1 caster/ranged means any team with a summoner is almost sure to lose now

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Joking? SMN are still in a great place, I'm actually excited about these changes because I feel like I just got away with murder.

@Alhanelem

SMN problem wasn't cause of Miasma 2 Heavy. Miasma 2 Heavy was more crucial for SCH than SMN. SMN's main QQ was because of Triple CD, Enkindle followed by an array of Instant off-GCD attacks with on-GCD attacks. SMN will still have it's offensive strength.

At any rate if you let the BLM stalemate pass your first Purify DR. You are destined to lose no question about that. It is time you start looking as to why you need to cast and depend on Miasma 2 Heavy to do damage, sure it is harder for you to dodge incoming melees now. But in the first place SMNs forte was "The best defense is a dead opponent right off the bat"

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Originally Posted by TaneshimaPopura

But in the first place SMNs forte was "The best defense is a dead opponent right off the bat"

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This should pretty much be the mindset of anyone who wants to learn SMN right now. Perfectly phrased.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

The ressurection change was completely unnecessary. You revive with so little HP 1 hit from anything can kill you. I really don't get why people were crying about this.

With these changes, limiting teams to 1 caster/ranged means any team with a summoner is almost sure to lose now, since SMN has drastically reduced crowd control, while BLM is still sitting pretty with its 30 second sleeps.

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Fortunately as a summoner, you bring enough to the table to be considered for most team compositions still. Especially if that team includes a white mage. If summoners kept the only res available to the damage slot, there would remain no reason to bring anything else in its slot. I would understand more if you were a bard complaining about these changes since the only advantage a bard brings over a summoner/black mage is its damage and... mobility?

I think we're still operating under the assumption that SMNs actually know that they should be burst chasing a target, when in fact I can count on literally one hand the names of how many SMNs in the Primal data center actually know how to do this effectively. Swear to god if I see another SMN from Hyperion opening the match with a DOT I'm sending you instructional videos after the match is over.

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Originally Posted by Deca

Joking? SMN are still in a great place, I'm actually excited about these changes because I feel like I just got away with murder.

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Not joking. The healing reduction + no heavy + no res means smn is almost completely stripped of utility, all you really have is tri-disaster now, and not many people even take advantage of that.

Who would you rather have? a SMN no longer able to slow targets, or a BLM who still has 30 second sleep?

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They have yet to address Summoner's burst/pet damage and Fairy Healing

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SMN doesn't have huge burst, so I don't know why people keep saying this. Hell, in PvE I get a lot of shit trying to join coil groups because they say smn has terrible burst, which only increases in PvP at all because of the 2 attack PvP skills.

-enkindle usually takes several seconds to use (since it's no good without the 2 pet buffs which each take up a few seconds, and the pet is usually pretty slow to activate its skill) so it's difficult to use in combination with your other skills to burst.
-the reduction in healing debuff, while expected, also means that healers will be able to counter-heal the SMN much more easily.
-Other classes, especially MRD, in my opinion can take burst to a higher level. Buffed up butcher blocks are crazy, they can kill me before I know what hit me. a skilled BRD can also deal pretty rapid damage. I can not 2-3 shot anybody even with lucky crits; other classes can.

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Swear to god if I see another SMN from Hyperion opening the match with a DOT I'm sending you instructional videos after the match is over.

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Well, I can guarantee you'll see less of this, especially since the only dot with immediate value tactically was Miasma, which has been nerfed into the ground. I expect you'll see more tri disaster's

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If summoners kept the only res available to the damage slot, there would remain no reason to bring anything else in its slot.

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I disagree, because anyone with any attention span whatsoever can easily counter SMN's ressurect, leaving you still down a man and out a huge amount of MP.

Seriously. 1 well timed hit from almost anything will take out somebody raised by a SMN (while SCH/WHM have the ability to revive players with much more HP/MP/TP). This was NOT OP.

Because SMN DPS was not directly nerfed, they are still viable from a purely DPS standpoint, so I'm not extremely upset, but I really expect to see a lot of "oh great, we have a SMN on our team, we lose" from here.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Who would you rather have? a SMN no longer able to slow targets, or a BLM who still has 30 second sleep?

SMN doesn't have huge burst, so I don't know why people keep saying this.

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1. Both are great, SMN better for offensive pressure. BLM better for defensive pressure.

2. SMN burst is absurd, people keep saying it because they've 1. Been deleted by a SMN 2. Are a SMN who deletes people.

Also I think we need to start looking at Elemental Resistance. Currently with +16 Wind resistance ( 286 Wind Resist Total ) + Morale 220, my last ilvl 90 Enkindle crit received was only 847. Now pondering as to slot my 5th Meld slots with Wind IV instead, after all succeeding chances are only 3-6%. +52 Resistance which could completely nullify SMN's Garuda's efficiency.

@Alhanelem

I don't care if you say Coil doesn't have shit for damage or burst it is all down to player skill. Profile me now, I wore that particular gear and out DPS-ed (By a 20% Margin) a full BiS BLM in CT and in Turn 1 - 4. It all comes down whether you know how to grasp opportunities, understanding your class, and most importantly understand other people's class. I don't give a rat shit to use Purify on CC/Holmgang, but if I see a 90 MRD uses Full Swing on me I'd definitely purify that shit first as BLM.

And in case you didn't know if you do not use any skill and just run around after being Raised you have a full 5 seconds of invulnerability. Enough for a Fairy to pump you up back to 60% HP, problem is most people who get raised immediately uses a skill or Sprints (WTF would you do that with 0 TP upon ress?) and forfeit the 5s invulnerability. Tri-disaster is in the same position as Freeze for BLM. Not many people use them, but at least thank your freaking stars your CC has a shorter cast longer duration same radius and is not Ground targeted.

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Originally Posted by Deca

1. Both are great, SMN better for offensive pressure. BLM better for defensive pressure.

2. SMN burst is absurd, people keep saying it because they've 1. Been deleted by a SMN 2. Are a SMN who deletes people.

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I'm sorry, I don't see it. I get wrecked far more easily by other classes than I do by another SMN. The job pressures healers by spreading a lot of damage around to other targets, forcing them to heal different people. Single target burst is not substantially greater than what other classes can put out. Getting 2-3 shotted by a melee proves that more than easily enough. SMN can't kill anything in 2 or 3 hits.

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Also I think we need to start looking at Elemental Resistance. Currently with +16 Wind resistance ( 286 Wind Resist Total ) + Morale 220, my last ilvl 90 Enkindle crit received was only 847. Now pondering as to slot my 5th Meld slots with Wind IV instead, after all succeeding chances are only 3-6%. +52 Resistance which could completely nullify SMN's Garuda's efficiency.

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You would need all 3 resistances. People can just use ifrit or titan if they know you're using wind resistance, for instance. Ifrit used to be used quite a bit, but now that SMN can't inflict heavy I imagine the melee pets usage will decrease (even though I find garuda annoying because she get's LOS blocked all the time)

It's pretty unfair to nerf heavy for Scholar.
New matchmaking will be great when marauder will be considered as dps class.
Btw I was very impressive when I saw bad players become "skilled player" with rank30 gear.
About amazing waiting queue, I guess that bonus exp won't be useful

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Originally Posted by Edenlys

It's pretty unfair to nerf heavy for Scholar.
New matchmaking will be great when marauder will be considered as dps class.
Btw I was very impressive when I saw bad players become "skilled player" with rank30 gear.
About amazing waiting queue, I guess that bonus exp won't be useful

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I agree about the SCH thing, but in their defense, SCH has been far better than WHM in my opinion. Even though SCH can of course still ressurect, they may have lost more from this change than SMN did.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Not joking. The healing reduction + no heavy + no res means smn is almost completely stripped of utility, all you really have is tri-disaster now, and not many people even take advantage of that.

Who would you rather have? a SMN no longer able to slow targets, or a BLM who still has 30 second sleep?

SMN doesn't have huge burst, so I don't know why people keep saying this. Hell, in PvE I get a lot of shit trying to join coil groups because they say smn has terrible burst, which only increases in PvP at all because of the 2 attack PvP skills.

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Wither: off-GCD, 170 potency, removes Protect. Aetheric Burst: off-GCD, 170 potency, debuff partly irrelevent. Energy Drain: off-GCD, 150 potency. Enkindle: off-GCD, 250 potency +80% with Rouse and Spur.

Wearing full i70 PvP gear with The Veil of Wiyu Zenith and the i70 PvP Fending ring yields these static damages when buffed with Raging Strikes (20 Seconds) and Mega-Potion of Intelligence NQ (15 seconds):

-Wither > consistently connects for 600-700 damage on a PvP i90 player, crits of around 800-1,000 damage.
-Aetheric Burst > consistently connects for 600-700 damage on a PvP i90 player, crits of around 800-1,000 damage
-Enkindle (Rouse + Spur) > consistently connects for around 900-1100 damage on a PvP i90 player, crits of around 1,400-1,700 damage
-Energy Drain > consistently connects for around 450-600 damage on a PvP i90 player, crits of around 700-900 damage
-Ruin II > about 350 damage, with crits as high as 550 on full i90 PvP players

So, in about two GCDs worth of "casts", you can do a minimum of around 3,300 damage to a player with an average HP pool of about 4,400. That's not even factoring the 4 other super-powered Energy Drains you get while still under the effects of Raging Strikes and the INT potion. Without a tank, this ensures that if your target is their healer, the healer will have no room to manage anyone but themselves, and will often be forced into Attunement very early on. If you have a tank stunning the healer with you while performing this burst, the healer must immediately Purify the stun, while still suffering from the severe latency of Purify, manage to Lustrate or Benediction before they die. If they don't, they will die every time.

The best SCH I've played with, who's full i90 with an HP pool of 5,500 has admitted that there is virtually nothing she can do to survive a well timed Stun with a properly executed SMN burst. Many of the best healers I've seen have taken to anticipating the burst and Attuning before they've been hit by anything, hoping to bait out PvP-only attacks and Enkindle.

You compared people complaining about your burst in PvE where enemies have enormous HP pools compared to a PC in i90. It wouldn't be wise to burst anything like that in PvE since it's a tremendous waste of resources, but if you can dish out lethal damage in a 5 second window on anyone in PvP, how is that not insane?

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Originally Posted by Deca

1. Both are great, SMN better for offensive pressure. BLM better for defensive pressure.

2. SMN burst is absurd, people keep saying it because they've 1. Been deleted by a SMN 2. Are a SMN who deletes people.

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Totally agree with you on both points :P

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

SMN can't kill anything in 2 or 3 hits.

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If you don't count the 3 dot casting as a hit, yes they can.. Fester, Energy Drain, Wither. Have done it a lot of times on >ilvl70 PvP people.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Not joking. The healing reduction + no heavy + no res means smn is almost completely stripped of utility, all you really have is tri-disaster now, and not many people even take advantage of that.

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OH NO!

Now you only have 2 AOE binds, a long ranged spreadable healing debuff, an infinitely spammable instant cast AOE healing debuff, a cone AOE purge, an AOE skill speed reduction, a range reducing debuff, pet stuns, an instant cast blind with no CD, the strongest burst damage behind a hardcasted Flare+Firestarter, burst setup that only requires one casted spell (2.5s) now that Swiftcast doesn't have to be saved for rez, and by far the highest sustained damage of any job/class.



Talk about USELESS! Who would ever take a SMN now? They are so gimp omg.

@Alhanelem

You kidding me use Ifrit and Titan. First off people wouldn't know you have Wind Resist equipped, 2nd aside from nullifying Enkindle potency it also reduces Wind Blade damage. 3rd Ifrit's attack are all physical based and has nothing to do with Resistance except for his Enkindle. 4th Titan is even more of a joke as you will most likely miss his Enkindle since it is cast on a PBAoE around Titan's current position. I don't play SMN at all but these are the basic things being researched for the point of "knowing your enemy"

It would be a valid point if all of Ifrit damage was Fire damage but it isn't whereas the case is different for Garuda-Egi.

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Originally Posted by Nenin

OH NO!

Now you only have 2 AOE binds, a long ranged spreadable healing debuff, an infinitely spammable instant cast AOE healing debuff, a cone AOE purge, an AOE skill speed reduction, a range reducing debuff, pet stuns, an instant cast blind with no CD, the strongest burst damage behind a hardcasted Flare+Firestarter, burst setup that only requires one casted spell (2.5s) now that Swiftcast doesn't have to be saved for rez, and by far the highest sustained damage of any job/class.



Talk about USELESS! Who would ever take a SMN now? They are so gimp omg.

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Hahahah Awesome <3

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Originally Posted by Trevalion

If you don't count the 3 dot casting as a hit, yes they can.. Fester, Energy Drain, Wither. Have done it a lot of times on >ilvl70 PvP people.

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Yeah, that's not at all bursting and is blocked by Purify. You proved his point further and argued against Deca without knowing it.

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Originally Posted by Trevalion

If you don't count the 3 dot casting as a hit, yes they can.. Fester, Energy Drain, Wither. Have done it a lot of times on >ilvl70 PvP people.

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With lucky crits on all of them, maybe. But I have found myself unable to counter a healer's healing (by myself, at least), and this is only going to get harder with the changes on this patch.

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You compared people complaining about your burst in PvE where enemies have enormous HP pools compared to a PC in i90. It wouldn't be wise to burst anything like that in PvE since it's a tremendous waste of resources, but if you can dish out lethal damage in a 5 second window on anyone in PvP, how is that not insane?

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It's not as insane as the burst I've seen from melee DPS and MRD.

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Now you only have 2 AOE binds,

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Bind isn't so great because the player can still act on things they have line of sight on and it is broken by damage. Most crowd control only has zero or one of these two weaknesses (Sleep prevents acting but is broken by damage; Heavy doesn't prevent acting but isn't broken by damage; Stun both prevents acting and can not be broken except by purify)

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an infinitely spammable until you run out of MP really fast instant cast AOE healing debuff that has been nerfed into the ground

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fixed that for you

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a cone AOE purge, an AOE skill speed reduction,

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Meh and Meh. People only care about these because they do damage and you know it; Plus they have long cooldowns.

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the strongest burst damage behind a hardcasted Flare+Firestarter,

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Thanks for agreeing that there is better burst than SMN

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now that Swiftcast doesn't have to be saved for rez,

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Which was an unnecessary change because smn rezzing is tottally counterable people just have poor attention spans / poor reaction times; also I'd call you bad if you exclusively used swiftcast with ressurect.

Even wearing i90/rank 30 gear and using some fending accessories for 5k health/260-280 Morale and I still melt to a lot of summoners * cough Cali ex cough*

But tbh I was somewhat fine with summoner's damage, it was just the raises from double smn that was rediculous. Have played against double smn on plenty of occasions killing both summoners multiple times and still end up losing because of heal swiftcast res, smn swiftcast res another smn, if heals goes down then heals gets swiftast ressed by the other smner. (I'm sure one of my team team against cali ex and his healer was like this a few days ago, had heals slept whole time too)

I know it might seem easy as in "just attack the raised smn/heals and he's dead"
But trust me, that isn't as easy as it seems in a actual game, specially when our heals/other dps is dead from double smn burst

@ Alhanelem

You realize if you connect all of those skills in a non-crit scenario it is already 3.3k dmg? Now A SMN is definitely going to meld Crit so at least 1-2 out of the list is going to crit. A 5k HP Healer is only possible with full Vit90 Accessories. I'm using 3 Astral Melded Accessories (+24 Vit) and only have 4.5k HP as a BLM (Mainly to squeeze as much Spell Speed)

Also why can't you counter a healer's healing? You'd be spamming Ruin 2 all the time and should be, clipping it with Energy Drain if extra damage is needed. Unless the healer is on Equianimity there is no way he/she be able to cast anything outside of instant.

No more fights where you have 6 kills and lose =)

@Nenin BTW "a long ranged spreadable healing debuff" I dont think Bane spreads the disease? It doesnt appear on the floating combat text and I'm pretty sure I haven't seen it transfer in the debuff list either, maybe I just haven't looked hard enough?