(Help me out!) How to get over 200 dps on Titan Exteme?

With the new patch, I'm finding less and less reason to play BLM and finding myself playing other classes more and more. I'm about to quit BLM, which is a shame because I would probably have to change my name. Which is impossible.

Can anyone match pug/dragoon 250ish dps? Or I'll even take archer's 210 ish. I'm stuck in 190s-very low 200s when I try and 170s if I'm slacking. I haven't had the chance to parse a summoner but I'm sure it's consistently above 200 easy too.

I'm doing everything I can to maximize damage - delayed start for procs, mana walling slides. Short of maybe eating stuff with manaward.

But then again, I was never looking to be hardcore with this game - just want to do average DPS D:

When am I supposed to pop raging strikes/int pots in this fight? How do I dps in this fight? I don't get it. Feel like it's my fault every time those circle bombs drop. People don't even want me to LB egis.

Felt like such a leeching bum. Especially when those earrings dropped.

I'm a SMN. I usually do 260-290 DPS on Ex Titan.

BLM have a kind of hard time in that fight with all the moving. The successful ones I know I think like to use manawall during landslides and position outside of teh stack during certain landslides to avoid having to interrupt casts. I really don't know how to play BLM though, but I know I have played with some who can pretty consistently do 210-230 DPS, but I've never seen one parse higher really.

260-290: OTL

I knew it was a big difference but not that much. Any good BLM who can put up a vid or give some pointers? Would be much appreciated.

SMN: http://i.imgur.com/L2VwoF9.jpg

Highest I've seen from BLM was 255, but he got a lot of lucky procs on that run, he normally does ~220. If you want I could try to ask him to pm you maybe give you some pointers, we're from cactuar too.

Edit: Here's the parse for it. http://i.imgur.com/cFUU3G6.jpg

Sirius stop taking potato mages.

Also don't let ex titan be a deciding factor for choosing what class to play. It's a notoriously hard fight for black mages, you shouldn't make a decision like that based on a single encounter. That'd be like a drg or mnk giving up on their class just because of ex garuda.

We usually just don't take blm on that fight, brd uptime is better. Pro-tip, have an off-class or two.

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Originally Posted by Seobit

SMN http://i.imgur.com/L2VwoF9.jpg

Highest I've seen from BLM was 255, but he got a lot of lucky procs on that run, he normally does ~220. If you want I could try to ask him to pm you maybe give you some pointers, we're from cactuar too.

Edit: Here's the parse for it. http://i.imgur.com/cFUU3G6.jpg

Sirius stop taking potato mages.

Also don't let ex titan be a deciding factor for choosing what class to play. It's a notoriously hard fight for black mages, you shouldn't make a decision like that based on a single encounter. That'd be like a drg or mnk giving up on their class just because of ex garuda.

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Yea - I'm probably gonna stick with BLM but I can't even imagine 255 even if I get very lucky with procs. Does he have a allagan scepter by chance? Buff food? Though even if he did, that doesn't account for ~20 dps.

300+ is just ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ followed by (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

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Originally Posted by Seobit

SMN http://i.imgur.com/L2VwoF9.jpg

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How do you get ACT to combine your DPS with the pet? Probably some simple option I need to find and check. :P

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Originally Posted by HoroBoro

Yea - I'm probably gonna stick with BLM but I can't even imagine 255 even if I get very lucky with procs. Does he have a allagan scepter by chance? Buff food? Though even if he did, that doesn't account for ~20 dps.

300+ is just ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ followed by (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻

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Yeah allagan scepter + allagan shield, full i90.

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Originally Posted by T0rin

How do you get ACT to combine your DPS with the pet? Probably some simple option I need to find and check. :P

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In options > Data Correction > Combatant Rename

Rename a combatant to a new one, or merge into an old one
Garuda-Egi (You) Before
You After

Or for other people just put Garuda-Egi (Their name) for before and their name for after.

I've gotten 250+ on Titan Ex as i86 BLM.

Memorize when plumes are coming next. You don't need to stack until plumes are actually coming out, so just keep casting off-center until you get a proc. Then, use that opportunity to move back in position.

Be smart about where you dodge plumes. Since healers and bards are usually on Titan's butt and they like to dodge left or right, I dodge south. This lets me not stack and not trap anyone if plumes go off. As an aside, people who give well-positioned BLMs and flanking melees crap about not stacking are idiots. The only time you must stack in one spot is during double plumes post heart.

Pre-cast Sprint before plumes as well. The faster you get out, the faster you can get back to casting.

During upheaval/gaol, hardcast Flare early on Titan such that it hits both Titan + DD Gaol. Transpose, target healer Gaol, then swiftcast + Blizzard 3 while being knocked back.

Raging + Quelling + Int Pot + Flare x2 on the first set of Titan egis. The second Flare should be swiftcasted while baiting and dodging landslide.

I use Raging strikes at the very beginning and during the first egi phase. Use it as soon as it's up on the second post-heart cycle since Titan should die before the 2nd superbombs in a decent party.

Use Manawall to absorb the first 2 landslides in the starting phase. I also use it for circle bombs during heart (if necessary) and row bombs post-heart.

This is more general BLM advice, but I find it best to play without macros especially for the main spells in your rotation i.e. Fire, Fire 3, Bliz 3. If you use macros, you lose the 0.5 sec auto-input buffer that lets you recast Fire at the fastest possible speed.

That's very helpful - thanks

I usually eat the first 2 landslides and circle bombs but not row bombs, though I may as well. Raging + Quelling+ int I usually try to get a full fire cycle in, but it seems there's not the time for this fight. I'll try using it on the egis.

Would it be acceptable to eat a plume with manaward? Maybe I should be asking that question in the healer section XD

Everything you've said are things that sound very solid (the flare/gaol/egis thing is brilliant). Will put into practice next time I run for sure.

I have the same problem, 190-200ish depending on the run.

I always stack because I assume a party will whine if I'm not stacking. Usually I'll dodge the plume, cast my next spell and start running once I pass the 80% or whatever cast bar where you can run and still have it go off. But I end up with some interrupts when dodging the landslide. I need to use Manawall more I guess. Also need to start holding RS for the egis rather than using in heart phase.

I've been wondering whether using Scathe when dodging would be helpful, but right now my biggest DPS issue seems to be the fact I stack too much.

Some parties can be pretty harsh, had one complaining the two LNCs were doing more DPS than me yesterday, and I couldn't even join a party in one of my linkshells unless I could do 250 DPS, which is crazy. I've always put dodging before damage on Titan but now I will take more risks to squeeze out that extra DPS.

I will try this phaser, because with ffxiv - app never seen anyone pass 230 dps.

Man it is becoming scary to talk about parsers at the moment. I fear for permanent banned for talking too much about it on the forums.

In any case, the parse posted by Seobit is as accurate as it can be. Very impressive numbers indeed. I don't know how much dps I'm doing on Titan ex nor what kind of total damage to expect using ACT as I have only parsed using a very inferior option IMHO. However, OP, you need to forget about parsers and focus on Titan fight itself.

IMO, BLM naturally do higher numbers the more they know the fight. For Titan EX, you need to be able to know what is going to happen in the next 3 seconds at any moment in the fight. Knowing that and moving during your off time is the very key. If you are always at the correct position and rarely cancel your cast to dodge you will naturally reach very impressive numbers. There is also the two adds, you should be the one demolishing them with a nice buffed out double flares, easy 5k+ damage with double crits and foe.

Not to make you feel worse but Arc/Brd DPS should actually be closer to 240-270 if you're playing it right....210 is garbage. Sum DPS so high because their egi never has to move...

Bard 210? Im not even close to full 90 and put out almost 300dps in titan extreme

Ive been wondering, about how much non-moving uptime does BLM have on Titan Extreme? And how would you go about testing it?

For a BLM, moving = almost no dps. You have your Thunder ticking for 35 potency every 3 sec, and you can Scathe for 100 potency every ~2.35 sec, but that will cut a fire out of your fire cycle due to the mana cost, unless you happen to be in UI3... Even then, Thunder ticks + Scathe = 35/3+120(average)/2.35 = ~63 pps at most, versus ~110 pps when you are standing still. Not counting the broken casts and the lost fires due to insufficient mana.

In terms of overall dps, I am usually around 190 dps by the time we get to Superbombs. (After jumps, dodging, etc) On a dummy I can do about 280 dps, I85 gear, I90 weapon.
So based on those numbers, I have roughly 68% uptime on Titan... Honestly at that point I might as well be spamming Scathe and Thunder 1 for ~63% of my max pps, but with nearly 100% uptime.

It's also important to look at burst phase damage. Sure Smn can get 300 sustained (which is amazing btw) but when I look at burst phases(heart/gaolers) the Blm and Brd can get some crazy numbers, not to mention the + 30% a bard can add to mage dps and +15% basically half of the entire fight. For instance, my bard which I normally get 220-250 dps on Titan can get up to 380+ for heart and Blm numbers in the gaolers phase can be staggering.

Sometimes I don't get why people keep talking about parsers and DPS numbers so much.

What I really care is getting the job done.

I wouldn't really bother with the exact numbers as long as the monster is killed, no one dies without reason and the battle doesn't drag. 200DPS or 2,000DPS, as long as Titan EX is down before/at 2nd superbombs it's all good.

Most failures are from people dying. Always remember the 1st rule of DPS: 0HP = 0DPS. Survive first.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

Sometimes I don't get why people keep talking about parsers and DPS numbers so much.

What I really care is getting the job done.

I wouldn't really bother with the exact numbers as long as the monster is killed, no one dies without reason and the battle doesn't drag. 200DPS or 2,000DPS, as long as Titan EX is down before/at 2nd superbombs it's all good.

Most failures are from people dying. Always remember the 1st rule of DPS: 0HP = 0DPS. Survive first.

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you're the better blackmage

I was trying to Flare the gaolers in a group last night and the group complained we were killing them "too fast". Apparently they aren't meant to die fast so we split DPS, some on left and some on right. Needless to say the group didn't win.

I did achieve around 210 DPS on a couple of runs though so getting better. Scathe seemed useful for certain bits and I was using Manawall.

DPS has never been a problem in any of my Titan runs, the problem has always been people dying and causing wipes. I've probably put about 12 hours into it since Sunday and I'm starting to get fed up of the crappy groups. That is a huge amount of my free time wasted.

BLM aren't necessarily bad for this fight, but they aren't optimal. I don't think it's necessarily fair to compare yourself to a SMN on this fight because we reign supreme on fights that require a lot of dodging and damaging 'off' targets (don't forget our dots keep ticking even when we have to kill jails, jailers, or superbomb). We can spread dots and keep them going while our pet CONTINUALLY does damage, no matter if you personally have to dodge or not. I prefer to only take one BLM to this fight because I know they will have trouble in certain spots, such as pumping out the dps on jails reliably every time -- especially the 2nd one that you are knocked back into and have a few seconds to destroy post-landslide.

If you really want to be doing more damage in the fight... try a different class. I would suggest leveling and gearing up your summoner since you likely already have very good gear for it (if you got a hold of any i90 Allagan or off pieces for your BLM). Otherwise, your damage is passable... but it just won't get much higher in this fight. For the record, there are a few fights I personally believe would be better suited for a BLM than SMN (Ifrit extreme comes to mind, because of all those nails you have to kill)... but that is the nature of this game -- some fights are easier for certain classes than others.

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Originally Posted by Ooshima

Sometimes I don't get why people keep talking about parsers and DPS numbers so much.

What I really care is getting the job done.

I wouldn't really bother with the exact numbers as long as the monster is killed, no one dies without reason and the battle doesn't drag. 200DPS or 2,000DPS, as long as Titan EX is down before/at 2nd superbombs it's all good.

Most failures are from people dying. Always remember the 1st rule of DPS: 0HP = 0DPS. Survive first.

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That's exactly why I disagree with people posting parse results. I won't parse anyone, nor have I ever used the program. I know if I'm playing right and I can observe others and see if they are playing wrong. Parsing pushes people to get the highest numbers... and when people do that, they get sloppy. One example I recall is a Twintania run when our dragoon got his parser working and decided to start telling everyone their numbers in the MIDDLE of the fight. There was a marked difference in concentration as people popped their cooldowns in the wrong places to try to 'top the meters'. Meanwhile, I continued as normal, content to save my festers for the best times. I didn't have the highest DPS, but I will say this... every time I was caught in a 'short' conflag after that, I died (although they had previously been breaking me out). People weren't saving their cooldowns and it was painfully obvious and frustrating. I eventually just told the dragoon to stop.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

That's exactly why I disagree with people posting parse results. I won't parse anyone, nor have I ever used the program. I know if I'm playing right and I can observe others and see if they are playing wrong. Parsing pushes people to get the highest numbers... and when people do that, they get sloppy.

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Bad people get sloppy.

I don't disagree with the notion that posting parse results is usually a bad idea. However, "not parsing" is pretty silly. You may think you're playing right, but are you? In addition, your "I can see if other players are playing wrong" ... yeah, no. I can see the other player dodge every single mechanic, but when they're 60-80 DPS under me, yeah, so it goes.

Some players actually need to know their numbers to see how well they're performing. If they are making poor decisions that lead to conflags going off, then they are just playing poorly. Playing well involves maximizing DPS with "meeting mechanics" as a first priority.

I mean, do you really want to bring the 200 DPS player to your Titan EX sell group? Yeah, thought not.

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Originally Posted by PurpleSphinx

Bard 210? Im not even close to full 90 and put out almost 300dps in titan extreme

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with app i've never seen a bard pass 250 on titan including myself.

I sometimes wonder if I'd do more damage on my ilevel 79 SMN than my 86 BLM but most Titan PF groups require 80+ and I'd feel bad going into the fight with DL body, feet, hands and legs. My 90s are all accessories and waist. But admittedly I suck at playing SMN because I never play it.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

That's exactly why I disagree with people posting parse results. I won't parse anyone, nor have I ever used the program. I know if I'm playing right and I can observe others and see if they are playing wrong. Parsing pushes people to get the highest numbers... and when people do that, they get sloppy. One example I recall is a Twintania run when our dragoon got his parser working and decided to start telling everyone their numbers in the MIDDLE of the fight. There was a marked difference in concentration as people popped their cooldowns in the wrong places to try to 'top the meters'. Meanwhile, I continued as normal, content to save my festers for the best times. I didn't have the highest DPS, but I will say this... every time I was caught in a 'short' conflag after that, I died (although they had previously been breaking me out). People weren't saving their cooldowns and it was painfully obvious and frustrating. I eventually just told the dragoon to stop.

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While DPS alone is not an indicator of whether someone is good or bad, it is a pretty good contributing factor. While 0HP = 0DPS is true, if someone is pulling down 300 DPS, you can generally say that they aren't failing mechanics, or at least hard enough to die. And if someone isn't dying and is doing great DPS, that usually means they are good.

In a hectic fight like Titan, you can't accurately judge if someone is using a proper rotation. I'm sure to the average person, one DRG with a 100 DPS rotation and one DRG with a 300 DPS rotation look practically the same, and if both are passing the fight's mechanics, you might even think those two players are fairly equal. The reality of the DPS tells a completely different story though.

I parse everything. Literally, everything. I like to tell people about it. I like to critique myself and others. I like to use the data to determine where a group can improve and perhaps explain why it failed. Just because I know the numbers, and I play to make the most DPS I can, doesn't mean I get sloppy. I can do 20 ex titan kills and never fail a single mechanics check (never get hit by a plume or landslide, never faildps on a gaol, etc.) and do absolutely everything I can to try to sneak in every little bit of DPS I can.

Now, someone deciding to call out current parse results in the middle of a T5 kill is pretty stupid, and a pretty ridiculous example of why parsing is bad. Parsing isn't bad, being an idiot and calling out real time parse results in the middle of what may be a hectic fight is bad.

DPS should always strive to do more than they are. That's their job, to put out as much damage as possible. Being willfully blind to the numbers doesn't accomplish anything, except possibly neglecting signs that someone is doing something tragically wrong. There is no positive benefit of ignoring DPS results, unless you yourself have bad results, and ignoring them helps cover that up. Anyone who simply blows all their cooldowns to make some short term DPS in hopes out being temporarily at the top of the DPS meters is just as stupid. DPS is a measure of damage output over time. If they thought about it for a second, they would realize that using cooldowns at the proper times is going to result in higher DPS over the course of the entire fight. That is what matters, not who does the most damage in a 15 second window.

People need to take parse results for what they are, but ignoring them outright serves no purpose whatsoever.

People always want me to come on my BLM, but it's probably because it's my best geared class and I don't die to mechanics usually.

I normally can put up somewhere between 200-210 dps on average, (in ACT) higher if I get some lucky procs. You just have to be a little creative in what you do. As mentioned above, you don't have to be stacked up unless you know weights are coming. I normally start the fight off to the side until after the Landslide, pop sprint, move in, can usually get another Fire off, sprint out to the right side when Weights come, DPS out there until the 2nd plumes come (if DPS is low anyway). 2nd Phase there's a sweet spot you can usually find to stand in if everyone else is stacked up to not have to avoid the first Tri-Slide and allows you to get off an extra cast or two. Also remember you can utilize Manawall to eat a Landslide.

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Originally Posted by NightWrath

with app i've never seen a bard pass 250 on titan including myself.

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People can get 250, the thing is you would not be dps'ing smart imo. Usually this means you are burning cd's as soon as they are available, but if you want to make the fight much more smooth and not pad the numbers you would want to save certain cd's for certain phases.

@T0rin: lol says the Smn. Who can do the most damage in 15 seconds can be just as vital to a fight as to someone in 15 minutes.

There's no reason for a Bard to hold cooldowns for almost any part of the fight.

If you are that means you are overcompensating for bad DPS.

Sure in a perfect world, in reality it works to save Cd's for heart to prevent circle bombs or in gaolers to prevent being gaoled while one is alive still. If I didn't have to save cd's or ever play ballad that would be great, but I primarily pug all primals so I guess my pov is a little biased in that sense.

Umm, as long as you're not using cooldowns right at the end of the prior phase, they should be available for the heart phase. In addition, they should be available or just coming up for the adds.

RS is about the only thing I can think of where the timing will be significantly different, and you'd basically have to choose between heart and adds (in which case adds take priority). IIRC, in a slow group, BFB timing is: (1) immediate, (2) tumults after gaols after phase, (3) heart, (4) adds.

For RS, that would probably be: (1) immediate, (2) later randomly, (3) adds. So it works out. There's probably some stutter there, but not much.

couple pointers that helped me:

1.) save your swiftcast for flare. you can usually hard cast t3 at the beginning of each phase before he gets into mechanics, and then use T1 when your in umbral ice

2.) every time you move, use scathe. this may take a fire spell off of your fire chain but...

3.) don't worry about losing a fire spell off of your fire chain. Unless you are 100% perfect and other dps in your pt are consistent, chances are you aren't going to finish your fire chains all the time due to jumps, goals, etc.

4.) your dps will increase when the jailers spawn. if you are parsing in real time, don't be discouraged.

5.) I usually use raging for my first fire chain, and then again after gaols in the heart phase. Save quelling for the egis. Also your 3rd raging and 2nd quelling should both be off of cooldown for the 2nd set of egis.

Hope that helps. Employing these tactics helped get me from 175ish dps to 235+ consistently.

Also... dps is going to fluctuate alot in this fight. Don't let someone start talking smack on your dps output when you were the one in the gaol the last 3 times.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

That's exactly why I disagree with people posting parse results. I won't parse anyone, nor have I ever used the program. I know if I'm playing right and I can observe others and see if they are playing wrong.

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You can watch 5 other people do their rotations in real time and see if they're messing up any part of it, all while maintaining your proper rotation and not messing up any mechanics, on a hectic fight like Titan EX?

on a hectic fight like Titan EX?,
don't know about you but for me Titan Xm is the most simple fight of the 3. you know what coming and when it coming. if you wan hectic, please try doin iffit Xm with pug healer, make me pull my hair out 60% of the time><

I just did a quick Titan Ex PUG kill:

http://imgur.com/wHy1Qdu

Nothing as impressive as a SMN but it got the job done. It is possible to do more.

Edit: I guess if you add my pet damage I would score higher than a SMN ^^.

To respond to the people who responded to me: I wasn't just talking about me seeing if people can dodge or not when I said I don't need to use a parser. I am watching what others are casting/using, too. Just seeing the total numbers doesn't help me know what the problem is... just that there is a problem. But, watching them helps me realize what they are doing wrong, if they are using the wrong rotation, etc. It's pretty easy to watch... and not hard to watch in titan extreme because every single move is 'predictable'. Also, when people do parse... I am told I am usually one of the top if not the top, so I know I'm not doing anything wrong... but then again, I knew that before people started going crazy with parsers. I don't care if I'm number one or number two... just that I'm getting the job done and being the best player I can be. It's just common sense. If you want to use parsers on a dummy to help someone learn or practice their rotation... that's another story.

Sometimes you get lucky with crits or not, and there's your variable for good players... but you'll be able to tell if someone is using the wrong rotation simply from watching them. Unfortunately, I don't know melee dps well (I haven't leveled one) so I cannot be as critical with those roles. I do, however, watch all casters and bards to see what they are doing... and it is pretty easy to see if what they are doing is right or wrong.

Anyway, another reason I am against parsers: there are so many fights where they simply won't be a good reflection of how well a player is playing... most particularly with fights involving a lot of adds or dodging. Turn 4, Twintania, Titan Extreme, Garuda Extreme... all these fights are hard to 'parse' because so much is going on at once, and different jobs are optimal for different sections of the fight. There are certain little tricks in all of these fights that will make you more effective... and that just isn't raw damage. That's experience and knowledge.

One example I'll give is how I treat conflags and jails in Titan ex: I get my dots ready, bane them onto the add, and fester. The damage is effective and helpful, but would my damage be better if I just used my festers on cooldown rather than timing them for those moments? Probably... but to me it doesn't matter because parsers can't show who is playing smarter... just who is doing the most raw, parsed damage. This is why I watch other people... Let's say there is another summoner in the fight, and he is out-dpsing me... but only because he is using fester on cooldown rather than using it at optimal moments. He never banes or festers the jails (this actually happened in a titan group I was in, and I noticed it because I was watching him). Then we start to have issues with adds because he isn't saving his cooldowns for the right moment. That's why I'm saying using parsers as the end-all be-all of how good a player is... is a BAD idea. Instead, I watch what is going on and give advice.

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Originally Posted by Viridiana

You can watch 5 other people do their rotations in real time and see if they're messing up any part of it, all while maintaining your proper rotation and not messing up any mechanics, on a hectic fight like Titan EX?

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How is this fight hectic? I have it down to a science because the fight is a science, and yes I maintain my rotation because it's easy. Everything is so well-timed and Titan always follows the same rotation. I don't watch five people at once... I watch one or two (doing their rotations if I feel they are bringing the group down), but I will notice if any player dodges in the wrong direction or goes to the wrong place. Perhaps it's an old habit from playing WHM only in 1.0 -- I am always watching the party bar in addition to what I am doing, and dodging with my peripherals. I've been doing this fight for weeks helping people learn the fight... I call out abilities before they happen for new players, so yes I can maintain my proper dps and still watch others. I'm surprised people are challenging me on this because I assumed anyone would be able to do this if they have the fight memorized.

^ so going by feelings is better than parsing?

You are not making sense. It is a tool, I agree it should not be checked during the fight because that is just distracting but after successful kill or fail, it is a good method to identity strength and weakness. Now days it is fairly accurate if there is no double jobs in the same party.

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

^ so going by feelings is better than parsing?

You are not making sense. It is a tool, I agree it should not be checked during the fight because that is just distracting but after successful kill or fail, it is a good method to identity strength and weakness. Not others, but at least yourself.

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How am I going by feelings if I see what they are doing precisely?

If you want to run a parser yourself... by all means, go ahead. Who am I to stop you? But using it as a tool to determine 'who is the better dps' when the numbers are heavily influenced by the type of fight it is (for example SMN versus BLM in Titan Ex)... that is going way too far. As I said, it is pretty easy to see if someone is a good player or not just by watching their actions... and just because their total damage or average dps is lower than others doesn't mean they don't have a place in the fight. That is the point I'm trying to make. I see many BLM excluded from this fight because "they can't do as much damage." Meanwhile, they do have uses during certain phases (they are beastly on superbombs for example). Even I admitted I try not to take more than one BLM, though, because they might have trouble setting up for the 2nd jail (after being pushed back). Too many people get pigeonholed into thinking the numbers are better than anything else, and that is why I dislike parsers in general. It is very clear by this point that SE sets up certain situations in a fight where some classes are more optimal than others, thus pushing you to avoid class stacking unless you GREATLY outgear the fight. By looking at raw damage alone, you are overlooking the individual strengths/weaknesses of each section of a phase. I don't mean you directly... I mean a lot of people who choose to use parsers and don't understand how each class works. I've seen it happen so many times.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

Sometimes you get lucky with crits or not, and there's your variable for good players... but you'll be able to tell if someone is using the wrong rotation simply from watching them. Unfortunately, I don't know melee dps well (I haven't leveled one) so I cannot be as critical with those roles. I do, however, watch all casters and bards to see what they are doing... and it is pretty easy to see if what they are doing is right or wrong.

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This is basically what I was getting at with my posts, and I think we actually agree for the most part. Yes, it's easy to watch the cast bars of mages to see what they're casting, and certain attack animations are pretty clear-cut to see if they're being spammed (appropriately or not), but I find it much harder to gauge melee dps performance mid-fight.

Take a Titan EX group I had the other night. After a wipe or two, I checked the parser. The MNK was barely beating the tanks. So, I decided to pay more attention to what was going on with him through the fight, noticed that the DK debuff was never going up on Titan. As the group fell apart after the last wipe, I asked him, and he said he was using it. Checked the parser again, he was never using Snap Punch at all. There's no way I could have told that without a parser, though. Not mid-fight, anyway.

Important to note, though, that I don't mean to immediately judge someone for low dps. Could be an entirely legitimate reason for it. Or they could just have a really bad rotation. It's easier to determine if you both pay attention *and* run a parser. More tools (as long as they're accurate) leads to better decisions, I think.