A thought on Paladin, sheil swipe

I was thinking, if shield swipe was taken off the GCD it would be a nice improvement.

It would add more utility, and I would become more of a viable skill.
I don't see taking it off the GCD breaking the character in anyway.

If anyone has any reason why it shouldn't please add.


I know I would use the proc every time it popped, if it were off the GCD,
because a lot of the times it's really not worth another spin.

For one, this would be a huge dps increase to the class, completely unbalancing it relative to warrior.

Secondly.. it would defeat the purpose of the skill.

Shield Swipe is a tp regeneration tool. Any gcd during which you use shield swipe you regenerate more TP than you spent on the skill. This is like, invigorate over time. Use of this skill is how you maintain your tp in long fights. It is also a dps increase, not that our dps matters much. Using swipe when its available will help keep your tp up enough to maintain fracture if you are so inclined. Obviously only do these things if you have enough hate, but you should, since warrior's take every other cycle off in terms of generating hate so they can debuff damage done.

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

...Using swipe when its available will help keep your tp up enough to maintain fracture if you are so inclined

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There is no reason to maintain fracture because fracture is garbage. Accepted theroycraft I've read does not include that. Has something changed?

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Originally Posted by misterdapi

There is no reason to maintain fracture because fracture is garbage. Accepted theroycraft I've read does not include that. Has something changed?

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Regardless of maintaining Fracture or no though, it's an effective tool for maintaining TP. Especially when all you are doing is spamming your Halone combo, you will eventually run out of TP. Shield Swipe is there to help with TP regen, as it only costs 40 TP, does some damage, and does not break combos (like Flash is equally useful as a tool for TP regeneration without wasting actions).

I can crit a shield swip for 300+. At 40tp? That's a winner :)

Shield swipe is pretty pointless for tanking. Taking it off GCD would be nice. Flash is a better tool for TP regeneration that maintains threat.

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Originally Posted by IndigoHawk

Shield swipe is pretty pointless for tanking. Taking it off GCD would be nice. Flash is a better tool for TP regeneration that maintains threat.

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Flash doesn't do damage and with the enmity boost on Shield Oath you shouldn't be having threat issues. On single target bosses that are immune to blind casting flash is completely pointless. Why not utilise a skill that does damage at a low to cost?

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Originally Posted by misterdapi

There is no reason to maintain fracture because fracture is garbage. Accepted theroycraft I've read does not include that. Has something changed?

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As I said, if you are so inclined. Fracture is a dps increase, but it doesn't do anything for your threat. Like I said, its just one other thing swipe opens to you.

Fracture or not, as Juniglee mentions, you will run out if you just spam roh long enough and swipe counters that. Personally I only apply it when I'm off tanking during a cycle fight like turn 2 or titan ex. Or super bored on garu or something.


Swipe is a nice skill, it does some damage and restores tp. You can use it up to twice in a row without loosing combo.

A situational application for Shield Swipe most people tend to forget about, because of the number of monsters that resist it, is its Pacification effect.

You can use it to prevent Dullahan from casting Iron Justice, prevent Manor Wardens from using Double Smash, heck you can even prevent Ouranos (Copperbell Mines HM last boss) from using Impact Roar, Power Attack, or Mercurial Strike. Especially with stuns having diminishing returns on application now, it's great to prevent a 4th Impact Roar from going off and damaging everyone in the team.

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

As I said, if you are so inclined. Fracture is a dps increase, but it doesn't do anything for your threat. Like I said, its just one other thing swipe opens to you.

Fracture or not, as Juniglee mentions, you will run out if you just spam roh long enough and swipe counters that. Personally I only apply it when I'm off tanking during a cycle fight like turn 2 or titan ex. Or super bored on garu or something.


Swipe is a nice skill, it does some damage and restores tp. You can use it up to twice in a row without loosing combo.

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flash is a better tp restoring tool, along with stoneskin.

no tp vs 40 tp.

fracture is useless. i tried using it for a while and found that i had better DPS by just using my halone combo.

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Originally Posted by saber_alter

flash is a better tp restoring tool, along with stoneskin.

no tp vs 40 tp.

fracture is useless. i tried using it for a while and found that i had better DPS by just using my halone combo.

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Full duration Fracture is 220 potency per GCD; Halone combo averages out to 186.66 per GCD. Fracture is better dps, but you can't clip it, can't use it on something that'll die or go immune in the next 15 seconds, and you can't interrupt a combo to use it. Fast Blade is a poor skill for dps, enmity, and tp efficiency; the only reason to use it is to get to the good stuff.

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Originally Posted by Menae

Full duration Fracture is 220 potency per GCD; Halone combo averages out to 186.66 per GCD. Fracture is better dps, but you can't clip it, can't use it on something that'll die or go immune in the next 15 seconds, and you can't interrupt a combo to use it. Fast Blade is a poor skill for dps, enmity, and tp efficiency; the only reason to use it is to get to the good stuff.

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If you're concerned about the debuff being cut short you probably aren't fighting anything in which tank damage matters anyway. If something is dying in less than 15 seconds you probably don't have time to cast Fracture anyway; you're probably spamming Flash or Halone.

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Originally Posted by Menae

Full duration Fracture is 220 potency per GCD; Halone combo averages out to 186.66 per GCD.

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Halone is 150 + 200 + 260 = 203.33 potency/GCD. Fracture is a *highly* marginal increase in total DPS since you only get 220 potency every 9 GCDs (since it breaks combos and lasts 18 seconds), which means that using it increases potency/GCD from 203.33 to 205, which is a whole .8% increase in total damage (less actually, because you're getting 83.33/GCD from auto-attack, 25 from CoS, and ~25 from Spirits Within, which brings it down to .5%).

Fracture is *incredibly* mediocre.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

Halone is 150 + 200 + 260 = 203.33 potency/GCD. Fracture is a *highly* marginal increase in total DPS since you only get 220 potency every 9 GCDs (since it breaks combos and lasts 18 seconds), which means that using it increases potency/GCD from 203.33 to 205, which is a whole .8% increase in total damage (less actually, because you're getting 83.33/GCD from auto-attack, 25 from CoS, and ~25 from Spirits Within, which brings it down to .5%).

Fracture is *incredibly* mediocre.

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Oh, hey, thought Fast blade was 100 instead of 150 for some reason.

No argument that it's a pretty poor cross class. That said, it's a dps increase, which is the opposite of what saber said. I still wouldn't TAKE it, because it's also a massive enmity loss and I'd much rather not maintain dots on my tank, thank you very much. But it's still a dps increase!

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Originally Posted by Menae

But it's still a dps increase!

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It actually gets kind of fuzzy there when you factor in resources. It's a .5% increase in damage dealt but a 2.6% increase in resource consumption (65/GCD compared to 63.33/GCD). The straight Halone combo gets 3.21 potency/TP whereas the Halone + Fracture set up gets 3.15. The Halone + Fracture starts slightly better than straight Halone but, once the set up runs out of TP, it actually falls behind straight Halone by a fair deal more than its previous advantage.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

It actually gets kind of fuzzy there when you factor in resources. It's a .5% increase in damage dealt but a 2.6% increase in resource consumption (65/GCD compared to 63.33/GCD). The straight Halone combo gets 3.21 potency/TP whereas the Halone + Fracture set up gets 3.15. The Halone + Fracture starts slightly better than straight Halone but, once the set up runs out of TP, it actually falls behind straight Halone by a fair deal more than its previous advantage.

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Yeah, again, the 150 potency fast blade threw off my numbers, so it would be less efficiency, true. Though if you are going for dps, you could offset with some shield swipe...

AND BACK AROUND TO THE ORIGINAL TOPIC!

As most have previously stated it is a good way to manage excessive TP use. I do think however they should change the pacification debuff. Maybe a good change would be the application of a debuff to the target that increases induction times (a spell speed/skill speed debuff) by 5 - 10% for 10 seconds with diminishing returns upon re-application to 6sec, 2sec, immune then reset.

Just a thought...

I'd rather just see the Pacification DR cycle faster and possibly have Shield Swipe increase block chance against the affected enemy's attacks (preferably reduce enemy 'expertise', etc, if there is such a hidden stat in the game), to boost Shield Swipe availability as its actual effect time decreases. That and 5 more potency on cross-class Fracture in general... It's basically useless on almost any class at the moment, providing only the faintest bonuses to Monk and Dragoon dps (if any, now that Thrust combo has a 226.7 avg potency) as well. I wouldn't mind seeing the TP cost increased to 90 to balance that, but it's a half-percent-difference ability for anyone but Warrior presently.

Pacification also works on Thanatos in CT (not that anyone cares) :D

The problem with pacification is they won't make it useful on anything that's remotely difficult because only paladin can do it. It's kind of like dispel on One Ilm Punch. They really should just scrap it and make Shield Swipe useful in all tanking situations. Paladin gets enough situational stuff as it is.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

The problem with pacification is they won't make it useful on anything that's remotely difficult because only paladin can do it. It's kind of like dispel on One Ilm Punch. They really should just scrap it and make Shield Swipe useful in all tanking situations. Paladin gets enough situational stuff as it is.

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It might not be useful in boss fight but I, myself, am a frequent user of Shield Swipe. Particularly in trash mobs (e.g. Succubus in AK), I use it inconjunction with my chain stun to interrupt any AoE spells being cast on my party members. Shield Swipe + Shield Bash can grant you like (may be 20+ish seconds?) of pressure off the healers.

I understand it is not a big deal, as some people who has already capped myth/allagan gear, but I use it anyway since I believe it is a skill that defines between a good and a mediocore tanker.

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Originally Posted by Asdamine

I understand it is not a big deal, as some people who has already capped myth/allagan gear, but I use it anyway since I believe it is a skill that defines between a good and a mediocore tanker.

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I like this statement. Knowing when to use situational skills at the right situations definitely differentiates the good from the average.

Only change i would make to it is make the window to use it bigger, so you can actually use it to pacify something important more often.