A idea I wish square would really make work.

I was just reading some topics on open world content and then zoned content, and then people saying they want to explore more with more depth and complexity.

And then it hit me.

Random dungeon generators, and I'm serious, spend the money on creating a algorithm for this have a couple of sets of designs for rooms and mobs and the like but develop a in depth algorithm to make it 100% random every time. Boss mechanics can stay the same and so can triggers for rooms etc just all random. I think that would make it so much more fun and add a ton of depth. No longer can you really speed run something because it's never the same.

Everything you load the map is blank and you have to figure it out. Every time you do coil it's different, I think unless it's story oriented I think a RMG would be awesome. And then you could apply. This to treasure hunting etc. I think it would add a lot to this game and really make it stand out.

Now before you mention ps3 limitations, listen sometimes you have to drop old platforms to progress and make a game thrive, develop this algorithm for the next year and a half, maybe two and drop the ps3 and make it for the ps4 and computer. And beforeyou jump in with well I don't want to upgrade to play ff14, well tough shyt you can't hold back a entire game because your cheap things need to evolve otherwise we would never have left Windows 95.

You can hardly get any detailed random generated dungeon. You would see a lot of copy paste.

I would be willing to live with some copy and paste elements for some randomness. Every dungeon run is the same layout, the same mobs, in the same locations, doing the exact same thing. Simply put it gets boring really quick.

Its a good idea having a set of random dungeons each time you enter.... But if the quality is dropping i'd rather have a static dungeon..
You said you wanted a random map but the bosses to stay the same... If you rather made every mob and boss type be random from a set number of examples, with different tactics and skill set.
This way the dungeon will stay the same and the quality don't drop yet you have the randomness of the fights.. as this is actualy what we pay attention to in a dungeon setting.. the monsters there.

It's possible to have a large amount of detailed rooms if you designed a let's say for WP have 5 sets of rooms (designs) and for the larger areas let's say 3-4 different varieties of them, and the best part with this algorithm you may never see a large area for a few weeks or so. And I think keeping the bosses the same would make it a little easier for casuals, different route same ending if you will. I think if square really sat down and put this on the table as a future endeavor I could see this game getting a lot of attention. I would on go back and make a few random sets for lower than end dungeons (not much time spent there) and really focus on the end game. That would put this mmo over the top could you imagine BC different every time you did it?

Hellgate London had randomly generated dungeons. Look how well hellgate is doing, it folded.

It's not a bad idea for say, but I think SE could spend there time on much more deserving features before doing something like this. There is no real advantage to randomly generated dungeons, we don't gain anything but "Hey, this arrangement is cool, wonder what the next one will look like".

Where as new Jobs, new UI components, new dungeons entirely, etc would give us stuff to do.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

Hellgate London had randomly generated dungeons. Look how well hellgate is doing, it folded.

It's not a bad idea for say, but I think SE could spend there time on much more deserving features before doing something like this. There is no real advantage to randomly generated dungeons, we don't gain anything but "Hey, this arrangement is cool, wonder what the next one will look like".

Where as new Jobs, new UI components, new dungeons entirely, etc would give us stuff to do.

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Sadly.

The maze idea is nice though, and having a few different abilities that a boss can have but have it only use a handful set per run.

"random" maps are not a new thing, so giving it that tiny maze look to dungeons isnt a bad idea. Say you go inside the lighthouse and what not, each time you go in you cover a"different" wing. Sounds fun xD

SE already did something like this a la :FFXI Nyzul Isle (100 floors). It didn't turn out to be the greatest thing in the world, but it kinda worked. Random set of objectives, random monster sets, kinda random layout. You were fighting more time than anything. SE seems to be exploring this whole "Diablo" thing with gear repairs, loot with random stats, I wouldn't be surprised if a random "dungeon" with very similar elements all over eventually came.

Randomized events in MMORPGs these days are never a good thing when forced upon. We're talking about a majority player base that is all about the speedruns. They're not about the moment, they're about the end. In the real world, that sort of thing could work out great in many regards (school, work, etc), but in a video game, the end isn't necessarily what should be sought for. It's the experience as a whole. It's not right to tell others how they should play (when it's not a mandatory thing (i.e. fight mechanics)), but it's rather moronic when something is designed and intended for the experience, but someone goes in only seeking the end, complaining that the designers themselves are wrong for doing that in their own game. We, the player base, are quite full of ourselves lol.

That little rant aside, it'd be in their best interest to weigh how much of an impact random design could have (even if optional). Not necessarily to the players, but rather to how time efficient it is to do. Are the rewards (player enjoyment) justifiable in the time spent doing it (designing and playing)? Will it take up too many development resources to perfect (working out bugs, etc. when there are other things this team could be working/assisting with for the game)? Personally, I don't think it is at this stage of the game.

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Originally Posted by ZohnoReecho

You can hardly get any detailed random generated dungeon. You would see a lot of copy paste.

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Maybe not randomly generated dungeon geography, but random enemy placements would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

Randomized events in MMORPGs these days are never a good thing when forced upon. We're talking about a majority player base that is all about the speedruns. They're not about the moment, they're about the end. In the real world, that sort of thing could work out great in many regards (school, work, etc), but in a video game, the end isn't necessarily what should be sought for. It's the experience as a whole. It's not right to tell others how they should play (when it's not a mandatory thing (i.e. fight mechanics)), but it's rather moronic when something is designed and intended for the experience, but someone goes in only seeking the end, complaining that the designers themselves are wrong for doing that in their own game. We, the player base, are quite full of ourselves lol.

That little rant aside, it'd be in their best interest to weigh how much of an impact random design could have (even if optional). Not necessarily to the players, but rather to how time efficient it is to do. Are the rewards (player enjoyment) justifiable in the time spent doing it (designing and playing)? Will it take up too many development resources to perfect (working out bugs, etc. when there are other things this team could be working/assisting with for the game)? Personally, I don't think it is at this stage of the game.

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Having run many speedruns, and preferring them over tedious long runs (most of the time) specially to farm stuff. I disagree. I would much rather have a random dungeon. And where the actual challenge on the speed run is to find the right path to beat it in the least time. Current speed runs present no challenge, is just learning the scripted way and knowing when to cd and what spells to cast and which rotation to use specifically for each pack, and mass pulling everything, just plain dumb and robotic.

If you encoutnered something differentish each time, it would be so much more fun and challenging to speed run it to beat records.

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Originally Posted by Eekiki

Maybe not randomly generated dungeon geography, but random enemy placements would be nice.

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This can be achieved by one spawn point and then a random patrol pattern?

Instead of having them staticly stay in one spot all the time... XD

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Originally Posted by NeruMew

Having run many speedruns, and preferring them over tedious long runs (most of the time) specially to farm stuff. I disagree. I would much rather have a random dungeon. And where the actual challenge on the speed run is to find the right path to beat it in the least time. Current speed runs present no challenge, is just learning the scripted way and knowing when to cd and what spells to cast and which rotation to use specifically for each pack, and mass pulling everything, just plain dumb and robotic.

If you encoutnered something differentish each time, it would be so much more fun and challenging to speed run it to beat records.

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I can certainly respect your wanting of that challenge on it. In fact, I dare say I like it! But I don't think your peers look at speed runs for the same reason as you do. Most of them don't care about setting records or anything, at least none of the ones I know or encounter. They're just about the reward (the end) in as fast of a time as possible. Nothing to do with the experience itself. Their fun is getting the gear to get to content they want to do as quickly as possible. Anything that slows that down from what they're "forced" to endure is "bad".

Basically... Nyzul Isle from FFXI. This has been suggested quite a few times by now.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

Hellgate London had randomly generated dungeons. Look how well hellgate is doing, it folded.

It's not a bad idea for say, but I think SE could spend there time on much more deserving features before doing something like this. There is no real advantage to randomly generated dungeons, we don't gain anything but "Hey, this arrangement is cool, wonder what the next one will look like".

Where as new Jobs, new UI components, new dungeons entirely, etc would give us stuff to do.

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Hellgate: London was a pretty solid game tbh. It just didn't have enough exposure, imo. It had the loot drops you would expect from a game like the Diablo series, comedy close to on par with something like Boarderlands 2, and was still a MMORPG with multiple classes and multiple ways of leveling those classes.

I actually got back into that game a little over a year ago on custom servers. Since the game had went free to play. Was pretty enjoyable actually. I think I got farther along in the F2P than I did back when the game was subscriber for fat loots. I kinda miss it though. Was a good game.

They should put random fate like event inside dungeons. e.g. Like helping the miners out in Copperbell Mines HM

You have made some solid points of view how the mmo culture is that of quickest from point at to be then complain it wasn't enough but if you gave them enough they would complain they are forced to do long boring drawn put content in order to make up for the lack of content.. Thus is the wold

I never played the earlier versions so I guessed this has been tired. O well

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Originally Posted by Stryker12

I was just reading some topics on open world content and then zoned content, and then people saying they want to explore more with more depth and complexity.

And then it hit me.

Random dungeon generators, and I'm serious, spend the money on creating a algorithm for this have a couple of sets of designs for rooms and mobs and the like but develop a in depth algorithm to make it 100% random every time. Boss mechanics can stay the same and so can triggers for rooms etc just all random. I think that would make it so much more fun and add a ton of depth. No longer can you really speed run something because it's never the same.

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EQ's most recent expansion added a system like this. I don't know how good it is (quit soon as they announced they would continue to release expansions in pieces. Something they started doing on the last expansion)

Just mention it to say it IS possible but you would have to ask around to get opinions on it.

I think perfect world did this idea already so it's defiantly possible.
Could be interesting, at least it will be a different experience every time and the team would have to work it out together.

After how soulless PSO2's areas ended up feeling, I'm not a huge fan of the idea.

Random enemy placements, as mentioned above, would be a better direction.

That said, enemies just standing around/wandering randomly feels lazy in the first place, so random placement still only works because what we've got now in that respect is kind of underwhelming.
I'd rather they make the dungeons feel more organic, honestly.

Hellgate london really was a great game. It had graphics 5 years ahead of its time. It launched with a 64 bit Client when it launched in 2007. If it were to launch today, 7 years later it would probably do well. In 2007 most the world was still running 32 bit windows.

I sitll remember finding my first legendary/epic weapon crawling one of those random generated dungeons with it's hidden treasure room. It was pretty cool. YOu never new if it was going to be a trash dungeon, or if there was going to be a treasure room with epic loots.

However it was critically flawed on Launch having no Auction House. You had epic loots you didn't need and no way to sell them without shouting.

But then again, Tabula Rasa was a good game too, and it folded. But so was Auto Assault and it folded.

So many good games have imploded due to lack of support form the community. But this one will succeed simply because its Final Fantasy.

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Originally Posted by ZohnoReecho

You can hardly get any detailed random generated dungeon. You would see a lot of copy paste.

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A dungeon that was randomly generated would be more visually accepted if the areas of said dungeon were acceptably uniform.

In other words, Nyzul Isle was a really good randomly-generated dungeon.