Custom Auto attack

I want to see SE take auto attack beyond the basic form and let us customize it. All the current attacks we have: Light, Heavy, broad swing ect.. where will they go with new auto attack system? Turn into new WS's? Or just be an additional TP tool. I want to see it taken 1 step further and give us the ability to choose which one we want to auto attack with. For example if your tanking on gladiator. Heavy swing is great for enmity control so you would set that as your auto attack but if you were damage dealing on Gladiator you would change your auto attack to something like light stab or light swing for faster attacks. Heavy would have enmity control but slower TP gain while light would have no enmity control but faster TP gain.

We can go even more advanced and have "attack patterns" where we can set multiple attacks into an auto attack.

Ex. 5 Light swings > 1 heavy swing > 3 light stabs > 1 heavy stab

Something like that would probably take a lot of balancing but i think it could be a really cool feature.

If were gonna do auto attack. Let's spice it up a bit! ^^v

Eventually there would be only one good method of attacking, and everyone would copy it for their respective classes. So while there would be an illusion of customization, the reality would be either you are doing it properly or not.

Obviously each situation would have a different method involved, but the same principle applies, and it would end up being more annoying switching out patterns.

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Originally Posted by Roaran

Eventually there would be only one good method of attacking, and everyone would copy it for their respective classes. So while there would be an illusion of customization, the reality would be either you are doing it properly or not.

Obviously each situation would have a different method involved, but the same principle applies, and it would end up being more annoying switching out patterns.

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Perfectly stated.

Choices like this are not choices, they are the illusion of choice. Mathematically, there is always a superior option, and this becomes the de facto standard. Players who deviate from said standard become mocked, ridiculed, or just labelled "bads".

Variables like this should be addressed through timing of skill use, etc. Things that require actual player coordination, not looking up "For Boss X, the Optimal Autoattack Pattern is HS, HS, LS, HS, LS." on <insert wiki here>

That's a little complicated for a battle system, and bring in a lot of balance problems we really don't need to deal with, at this point in time.

I feel like we should invest less into AA and more into things like BR(replacement) and other more synergetic skills.

AA is just a ticker to activate the more higher levels of combat prowess. That's why AA is timeless in its effectiveness.

And everything mentioned can be done in regards to equations using passive skills or active skills.

For instance: Passive skill : heavy slash +100 TP +20% slash damage +50delay increase chance of critical

passive skill :Light stab : -50 TP -40% stab damage -100 delay increase chance of double attack

etc

I understand where you all are coming from but that way of thinking is what can hold back great ideas just because it doesn't "parse" the best. Everything has a "correct" way to do it and will be posted on wiki. Just because you did some math and it says that your setup does the best damage doesn't mean its the best thing to do for every situation/gear setup/ or JA setup. Maybe setting your own pattern would be a bit ridiculous on balancing but something like setting to use light or heavy slash would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Zangetsu

I understand where you all are coming from but that way of thinking is what can hold back great ideas just because it doesn't "parse" the best. Everything has a "correct" way to do it and will be posted on wiki. Just because you did some math and it says that your setup does the best damage doesn't mean its the best thing to do for every situation/gear setup/ or JA setup. Maybe setting your own pattern would be a bit ridiculous on balancing but something like setting to use light or heavy slash would be nice.

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Ungrounded concepts is what got ff14 in trouble in the first place. Look how our customizable armoury system turned into a clusterfck of "super" setup of unbalanced "wiki"ized combination.

An elegant balanced system is always grounded to reality and "held" back by logical concepts, instead of "new fun ideas". Because new and fun lasted...30minutes.

What about just choosing which skill is used for auto-attack. Let me choose which of my "free" attacks I auto-attack with.

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Originally Posted by Zangetsu

Ex. 5 Light swings > 1 heavy swing > 3 light stabs > 1 heavy stab

Something like that would probably take a lot of balancing but i think it could be a really cool feature.

If were gonna do auto attack. Let's spice it up a bit! ^^v

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/ac "Light Swing"
/ac "Light Swing"
/ac "Light Swing"
/ac "Light Swing"
/ac "Light Swing"
/ac "Heavy Swing"
/ac "Light Stab"
/ac "Light Stab"
/ac "Light Stab"
/ac "Heavy Stab"


There ya go..... A fully customizable auto attack you wished for. Now if only they had a way of implementing that into the game....................... :D

/display sarcasm off

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Originally Posted by Zangetsu

I understand where you all are coming from but that way of thinking is what can hold back great ideas just because it doesn't "parse" the best.

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This kind of thinking is also what stops terribly bad things from happening.

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Everything has a "correct" way to do it and will be posted on wiki.

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The difference is that there is a difference between KNOWING how to do something and EXECUTING it. Everyone "knew" how to do the boss fights in other MMOs, the difference was that some people could actually do them and some could not.

Your idea has no execution. It is simply find the numerically superior attack routine, plug it in, and let the numbers work.

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Just because you did some math and it says that your setup does the best damage doesn't mean its the best thing to do for every situation/gear setup/ or JA setup.

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The number of variables in the equation doesn't change anything. It just increases the size, complexity, and number of the table(s). It is solve for X, where X = damage per second, and then select whatever combination of variables yields the largest value for X.

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Maybe setting your own pattern would be a bit ridiculous on balancing but something like setting to use light or heavy slash would be nice.

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Again, what purpose does this serve? Either there's no difference between them, in which case, what is the point of the effort?

Or, there is a difference between them, and the answer is you choose the numerically superior one. The only "choice" is whether you want to be good and go look up the information, or if you want to be terrible and make everyone around you have a worse experience because you're too lazy to.

There is a huge difference between light, heavy , stab , and slash. Not just damage. I guess you missed that part or have never played the game. Your obviously just posting to be negative as i can see in all of your posts to threads so please take your bad attitude elsewhere. Now you will probably post something about how I'm only considering 1 classes attacks but from your knowledge of what the normal attacks actually do you don;t know which class I'm talking about.

p.s.

just feeding the trolls

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Originally Posted by Terabyt3

/ac "Light Swing"
/ac "Light Swing"
/ac "Light Swing"
/ac "Light Swing"
/ac "Light Swing"
/ac "Heavy Swing"
/ac "Light Stab"
/ac "Light Stab"
/ac "Light Stab"
/ac "Heavy Stab"


There ya go..... A fully customizable auto attack you wished for. Now if only they had a way of implementing that into the game....................... :D

/display sarcasm off

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yeah we can do that now... we cant with new AA, or can we.......... we don't know yet

I think the part you're missing, Zangetsu, is that autoattack is not "the game presses buttons for me". It is an entirely separate thing from activated abilities that perform a unique function or serve a purpose.

Autoattack is just periodic swings for damage that consume no resource whatsoever. Without having some sort of depletable resource, these attacks really cannot carry added effects outside of raw damage (and yes, this extends even to things as minor as changing the damage type attribute). All the abilities you just listed will most likely not exist once auto-attack is fully functional, or if they do it will be in an entirely different capacity. You're just used to spamming them instead of the game having auto-attack.

Once autoattack is implemented, there is no reason at all for light stab and light slash to exist as they do now. They will be rendered completely obsolete.

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Originally Posted by Zangetsu

I want to see SE take auto attack beyond the basic form and let us customize it. All the current attacks we have: Light, Heavy, broad swing ect.. where will they go with new auto attack system? Turn into new WS's? Or just be an additional TP tool. I want to see it taken 1 step further and give us the ability to choose which one we want to auto attack with. For example if your tanking on gladiator. Heavy swing is great for enmity control so you would set that as your auto attack but if you were damage dealing on Gladiator you would change your auto attack to something like light stab or light swing for faster attacks. Heavy would have enmity control but slower TP gain while light would have no enmity control but faster TP gain.

We can go even more advanced and have "attack patterns" where we can set multiple attacks into an auto attack.

Ex. 5 Light swings > 1 heavy swing > 3 light stabs > 1 heavy stab

Something like that would probably take a lot of balancing but i think it could be a really cool feature.

If were gonna do auto attack. Let's spice it up a bit! ^^v

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With that they might as well scrap the auto attack and go back to what it was lol. but yah, interested to see what will happen with the other attacks, such as broad swing, full thrust etc. This is why alot of people were upset about implementation of AA, they liked the option of being able to chose different attacks that could either build TP faster, decrease or increase enmit, do AE dmg etc. Maybe they'll be on a cool down or maybe we can switch stances and use those attacks instead. Attacks like flurry would have to be reworked since it needs to be started with heavy strike first. Either way, once the patch comes theres going to be a whole lot of people happy and a whole lot of people angry about it. i'm gonna hold off judgement until they say they've finalized it since it seems like it'll be a long works in progress with balancing. we can all just cross our fingers and hope it creates more interesting gameplay =)

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Originally Posted by Shampooo

With that they might as well scrap the auto attack and go back to what it was lol. but yah, interested to see what will happen with the other attacks, such as broad swing, full thrust etc. This is why alot of people were upset about implementation of AA, they liked the option of being able to chose different attacks that could either build TP faster, decrease or increase enmit, do AE dmg etc. Maybe they'll be on a cool down or maybe we can switch stances and use those attacks instead. Attacks like flurry would have to be reworked since it needs to be started with heavy strike first. Either way, once the patch comes theres going to be a whole lot of people happy and a whole lot of people angry about it. i'm gonna hold off judgement until they say they've finalized it since it seems like it'll be a long works in progress with balancing. we can all just cross our fingers and hope it creates more interesting gameplay =)

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How did it build TP faster? It was abused abused abused. who uses heavy slash? we stab, because stamina usage and acc was better, who used light, etc, etc, etc.

It was unbalanced in an unbalanced world.

This is why they're scrapped to a systematic AA, so developers can at least bring some order to the world.

How is this even any different then a WS in the new AA system? more damage more resources...okay... It's all DoT in the end.

In FF11's world you can easily equip a different set of eq and mimic heavy attack, I have increased double attack, store TP effect, etc, etc, etc.

I know people like the illusion that they are effectively making customized decisions, but heavy/lights/slash/stabs were so redundant in the great scheme of things, it barely mattered.

Once you get your heavy stab...that was it 99% of the time.

It's better to throw it into the passive skills bin, and give it some some animation hand-me-down.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shampooo

With that they might as well scrap the auto attack and go back to what it was lol. but yah, interested to see what will happen with the other attacks, such as broad swing, full thrust etc. This is why alot of people were upset about implementation of AA, they liked the option of being able to chose different attacks that could either build TP faster, decrease or increase enmit, do AE dmg etc. Maybe they'll be on a cool down or maybe we can switch stances and use those attacks instead. Attacks like flurry would have to be reworked since it needs to be started with heavy strike first. Either way, once the patch comes theres going to be a whole lot of people happy and a whole lot of people angry about it. i'm gonna hold off judgement until they say they've finalized it since it seems like it'll be a long works in progress with balancing. we can all just cross our fingers and hope it creates more interesting gameplay =)

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I appreciate you replying in a more positive and supportive manner. These other people are coming off like this is a debate. I simply brought up a general idea and people want to nit pick it but that's expected on a game forum I suppose . It's nice to know there is positive people out there though. Thank you =)

And people stil don't understand the purpose of heavy, light, stab, and slash beyond damage output.