New FATE System Poorly Conceived

First: I agree FATE's were completely broken and needed to be fixed, but I am somewhat stunned at the way they have been changed.

In the new system, there are three possibilities.

1. There are MORE players this time than last, which leads to FATEs that are still too easy.

2. There are LESS players than last time, which leads to them being too hard, possibly even too hard to complete.

3. There are the EXACT SAME NUMBER of players, which is unlikely.

We don't need FATEs to scale to the number of players that completed it LAST TIME. We need FATEs that scale to the number of people in the area THIS TIME. I am having a hard time believing a professional game development company even came up with such a badly thought out system.

How many different threads can the community make about the same issue? Does anyone use the search option?

Do you mind sharing your idea of how to calculate FATE difficulty? when should fate diffculty be determined? before it spawn, when it spawn, or when the first group of people enter the fate?
Unless you can predict the future, it almost impossible to do what you suggest. The Difficulty of FATE need to be determined before it spawn, otherwise it will be really complicate.

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Originally Posted by Remn

Do you mind sharing your idea of how to calculate FATE difficulty? when should fate diffculty be determined? before it spawn, when it spawn, or when the first group of people enter the fate?
Unless you can predict the future, it almost impossible to do what you suggest. The Difficulty of FATE need to be determined before it spawn, otherwise it will be really complicate.

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ooo can I answer this its is beyond easy, speed of npc death . tada so beyond simple.
npc dies in 60 sec = x spawn rate , 30 secs - x2 spawn rate , 15 secs = x3 spawn rate, 7 =x4 spawn rate.
this is how you program things :) any basic skilled coder could write this in a hour or less.

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Originally Posted by jebali

ooo can I answer this its is beyond easy, speed of npc death . tada so beyond simple.
npc dies in 60 sec = x spawn rate , 30 secs - x2 spawn rate , 15 secs = x3 spawn rate, 7 =x4 spawn rate.
this is how you program things :) any basic skilled coder could write this in a hour or less.

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so your idea is to calculate the spawn rate base on first mob(or first set) that die?
what if we have 30 people runing FATE, and 1 -2 people running ahead to next fate and starting kill mob, and end up take a while to kill it. at the point the FATE spawn rate will be lock to lower spawn rate and end up being too easy when the rest of the poeple get there.

It also possible to have a troll group running around and messing up the spawn rate on purpose by kill the first mob. .S
Not really sure if your idea will work tho.




Also

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We don't need FATEs to scale to the number of players that completed it LAST TIME. We need FATEs that scale to the number of people in the area THIS TIME. I am having a hard time believing a professional game development company even came up with such a badly thought out system.

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This is difficult because it would have to be done on the fly. You can't really scale an NM up or down after someone has started fighting it, and "kill the mobs" fates could only reasonably scale as new waves spawn. It would be unfair to the people already fighting if the monsters suddenly gained more HP because some people who might even just be passing by entered the FATE radius. You need to consider the reprecussions of your ideas.

Most of the time participation in fates will be fairly consistent so this really isn't the issue you're making it out to be. If the participating population suddenly decreases, it will only be more difficult once. Not a big deal.

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Originally Posted by Emblemelite

How many different threads can the community make about the same issue? Does anyone use the search option?

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No.

/10char

Defiance did a good job I think with their Fate system. If the entire "Fate" was killed quickly (or lots of players) then 2 additional hard intended for a larger crowd also spawns. If less people, or the fate finishes slowly, then the additional waves do not spawn. It sort of judges on the fly by spawning 2 progressively harder waves or not.

Of course, this doesn't work with single boss or collection fates, but....

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

This is difficult because it would have to be done on the fly. You can't really scale an NM up or down after someone has started fighting it, and "kill the mobs" fates could only reasonably scale as new waves spawn. It would be unfair to the people already fighting if the monsters suddenly gained more HP because some people who might even just be passing by entered the FATE radius. You need to consider the reprecussions of your ideas.

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SQE has systems that track who has aggro on enemies; the amount of targets with active aggro on enemies should be enough to determine how many are active in a fight and how the system needs to adjust itself.

Some may ask about people that leave FATES? It's already in the game that after you reach the leash length of an enemy, they drop aggro and are no longer on the active list to determine difficulty in the FATE. Some people will troll the system, of course, but not enough to impact the system in a notable way (if done properly), and if by chance they do cause a disruption, make that a reportable offense under griefing.

Instead of giving SQE free passes on everything, maybe they should actually be held to a standard.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

This is difficult because it would have to be done on the fly.

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Other MMOs manage it.

Scale the FATE to the number of people in the zone at the time it spawns. Easy as pie (and pie is very easy to bake). You can also implement successive "phases" of a FATE that only occur if previous phases are completed on time (i.e. if there's enough people participating) and introduce harder encounters.

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Originally Posted by frostmagemari

Instead of giving SQE free passes on everything, maybe they should actually be held to a standard.

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I like you!

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

This is difficult because it would have to be done on the fly. You can't really scale an NM up or down after someone has started fighting it, and "kill the mobs" fates could only reasonably scale as new waves spawn.

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Hate to quote Blizzard on this, but in MoP they introduced scaling mobs specifically named mobs (NMs for FF). As the mob is hit by more players its HP and damage and all that is scaled up. I remember watching a mobs HP go fro 5mil to 40mil in a matter of seconds when each player hit it with an ability.

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Originally Posted by Emblemelite

How many different threads can the community make about the same issue? Does anyone use the search option?

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There's a search option?

Real easy to scale a FATE in real time.

For single critter fates. The critter has set HP. The players still see themselves hitting for the same amount of damage. However, simply silently divide the damage dealt to the critter's base HP by the number of people who have registered against the aggro system of the critter within the last 30 secs, and update that value every 30 secs to account for people entering/leaving the fate area. Heck, the system already tracks who's on each critter's aggro list, just silently divide the number by that aggro list length.

For multi-critter fates, as we know, each death advances towards completion. Divide the advancement rate by the number of unique participants on the aggro charts, and update that value very 10s or so.

Easy.