Nerf sleep or buff Purify, pick one.

I'm getting slept five times or more in pvp matches, and my one purify does shit.

yeah. recast time of purify is a joke.

150 seconds with the improvement is fine. If you're sitting sleeps you honestly need to talk to the healer you play with, or LOS better. If their healer has time to sleep, you're probably not doing enough pressure to being with, and BLM is easy to ride as most DPS.

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Originally Posted by Foullacy

150 seconds with the improvement is fine. If you're sitting sleeps you honestly need to talk to the healer you play with, or LOS better. If their healer has time to sleep, you're probably not doing enough pressure to being with, and BLM is easy to ride as most DPS.

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Teams that have BLM/WHM/SMN/PLF have far too much CC, that's the real problem. Stuns, Slows, Roots, and 2 classes that can sleep. Having BLMs PvP ability sleep, and the ability to Swiftcast sleep if need be. Too much sleep going on. You can't blame the players for "being bad" if they are constantly stunned and put to sleep, then slowed and kited while the BLM or WHM get easy sleep casts.

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Originally Posted by Foullacy

150 seconds with the improvement is fine.

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What? 0.o (contains additional characters)

As I understood it, you can only be slept three times before you are fully immune for the rest of the match.

And, diminishing returns.

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Originally Posted by Jyoeru

As I understood it, you can only be slept three times before you are fully immune for the rest of the match.

And, diminishing returns.

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Wrong, and it doesn't take long before you can get slept for 30 seconds again.

Then they should let me cast through your auto attacks regularly because other than CC we just get sat on the whole fight cause thats fair.

Sleep makes things dynamic and there is counterplay to it. If you get slept you now have 3 options. Ride it out, purify it, or get an ensuna. You have to weigh these decisions because they matter and will also affect your team. Will your healer have to burn a cooldown to ensuna you? Will you loose the match if you don't purify it? If your healer is slept do you have to kite to save yourself or his purify? Options and choices in gameplay like this are good.

The thing I don't like is Miasma II because it's got no cooldown and with all the debufs a smn puts on someone a single ensuna may not remove it. It allows a smn to run his dot > burst combo and a whm has to play catchup and clear it off and heal before they die. It also isn't affected by tempered will. It seems like an unfair move and should act more like stone 1 or lethargy. The damage part of the debuf should be all the same thing without the additional effect. Should also have a 1 second cast time for as powerful as that spell is specially being aoe. It makes things difficult to deal with and there is a lack of counterplay to it. (aside from killing the smn)

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Originally Posted by Jadi

Sleep makes things dynamic and there is counterplay to it. If you get slept you now have 3 options. Ride it out, purify it, or get an ensuna. You have to weigh these decisions because they matter and will also affect your team. Will your healer have to burn a cooldown to ensuna you? Will you loose the match if you don't purify it? If your healer is slept do you have to kite to save yourself or his purify? Options and choices in gameplay like this are good.

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Could you please inform your strategy as healer when you are a blm in charge of you ? You only have one purify and diminishing returns is useless so you sleep permanently all along the fight with or without your purify skill.

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Originally Posted by xenovexus

I'm getting slept five times or more in pvp matches, and my one purify does shit.

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Neither. Get sleep resist materia. It has an impact. Also enhance purify to reduce the cooldown.

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yeah. recast time of purify is a joke.

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No, it's not. You need to choose when to use it strategically. it would be OP if you could remove every debuff that came your way. Our Purify is also better than the same thing in WoW and other games too, as it removes all debuffs and not just crowd control.

Sleep can be removed by esuna / leeches, and is also removed by damage, unlike stuns which while shorter cannot be removed by anything other than purify.

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Could you please inform your strategy as healer when you are a blm in charge of you ? You only have one purify and diminishing returns is useless so you sleep permanently all along the fight with or without your purify skill.

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First, if they have a BLM, your team needs to initially spread out a little bit. That's important. Next, target blm first. They may have swiftcast their first sleep so you have time to beat him up before he can get an easy one off again. Dump all your PvP attacks and cooldowns to dispatch him quickly. Another thing you can do is force the enemy to fight you near someone who is slept in the hope that they will inadvertently use an AoE attack.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

First, if they have a BLM, your team needs to initially spread out a little bit. That's important. Next, target blm first. They may have swiftcast their first sleep so you have time to beat him up before he can get an easy one off again. Dump all your PvP attacks and cooldowns to dispatch him quickly. Another thing you can do is force the enemy to fight you near someone who is slept in the hope that they will inadvertently use an AoE attack.

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So you hope an inadvertently AOE use ! As a blm in a premade team i will use switcast and equanimity 20s --> easy way to permanently sleep a healer, dont forget pld can use testudo and heal can keep me alive easily

Resistance materia review will be great, I dont really know reduction in seconds of +10 sleep resistance

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As a blm in a premade team i will use switcast and equanimity 20s --> easy way to permanently sleep a healer

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How does this permanently sleep a healer with purify? Even if the healer has zero sleep materia and food resist buffs, how are you sleeping more than 26 seconds? Regardless of what you use first- if purify is used (and who doesn't have this), how are you getting more than 26 seconds in before immunity?

Problem is diminishing returns dont make a total sleep immunity after the 3rd sleep all along you are in combat. you can sleep again with 30s duration.

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Originally Posted by Edenlys

Problem is diminishing returns dont make a total sleep immunity after the 3rd sleep all along you are in combat. you can sleep again with 30s duration.

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I did not suggest that diminishing grant immunity for the entire match. I was referencing the validity of your statement that you have an easy way of permanently sleeping the healer. You have an advantage of being in a premade so it is unlikely you will have people casting over you creating early diminishings or breaking your sleeps but after those 26 seconds (at most depending on what you cast when), you have 45 seconds to a minute after that before sleep can be used again on that healer otherwise he/she is immune.

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Originally Posted by Edenlys

So you hope an inadvertently AOE use ! As a blm in a premade team i will use switcast and equanimity 20s --> easy way to permanently sleep a healer, dont forget pld can use testudo and heal can keep me alive easily

Resistance materia review will be great, I dont really know reduction in seconds of +10 sleep resistance

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1 Status resist materia in each of the existing slots on your PvP gear reduces the duration about a third. If you overmeld, supposedly you can become nearly immune though this is obviously unverified with the current prices of the materia. You can also stack HQ resistance candy with this.

Personally being nearly always the first target as summoner, I am leaning towards stun resist instead of sleep because usually it's other people that get slept in order to beat me down first.

ITT: Scrubs who dont know how to PvP with coordinated teammates.

Take the first sleep, purify only if needed to save a teammate, and stun DPS if they try to start bursting anyone (BLM in particular has about 7 seconds worth of hard casting he has to do to properly burst).

If you guys want to see how sleep really is, take a BLM to rank 20+, and play vs some premades who know what to do vs sleep. You will see that not only is sleep very easy to counter, once it has been countered and DRs are up, said BLM will be doing close to nothing with any decent interrupt class shutting him down.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

1 Status resist materia in each of the existing slots on your PvP gear reduces the duration about a third. If you overmeld, supposedly you can become nearly immune though this is obviously unverified with the current prices of the materia. You can also stack HQ resistance candy with this.

Personally being nearly always the first target as summoner, I am leaning towards stun resist instead of sleep because usually it's other people that get slept in order to beat me down first.

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This isn't true. The amount it takes off isn't always the same, and is very low overall. Try some +5 sleep resist, it doesn't even get you under 28 secs every time.

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Originally Posted by Jyoeru

As I understood it, you can only be slept three times before you are fully immune for the rest of the match.

And, diminishing returns.

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Actually you're not fully immune, The sleep kicks back in within 2minutes of down time. I've seen someone recast a 30s sleep on me during a match.

I say take enhanced purify cd down to 90 seconds max. Also,

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Neither. Get sleep resist materia. It has an impact.

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The impact is minimal, very minimal. It can also take a very long time to get for some.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Also enhance purify to reduce the cooldown.

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If there were only 1 cc to deal with fine. But 150 seconds is simply too long for everything thrown at you.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

. Next, target blm first. They may have swiftcast their first sleep so you have time to beat him up before he can get an easy one off again. Dump all your PvP attacks and cooldowns to dispatch him quickly. Another thing you can do is force the enemy to fight you near someone who is slept in the hope that they will inadvertently use an AoE attack.

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So sleep isn’t op, but make sure to merc the blm? Got it.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

1 Status resist materia in each of the existing slots on your PvP gear reduces the duration about a third.

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So sleep is not op, but meld every open slot you have with sleep resist? Got it. That’s OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive btw.

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Originally Posted by Sentry

Wrong, and it doesn't take long before you can get slept for 30 seconds again.

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He's actually right, what makes you believe sleep works differently from pve? First sleep full duration, second sleep, half duration, third sleep full resist, just like in pve. Heals also remove sleep, so don't potion. Seems to me if you want to pvp with more utility you use your class and not your job.

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Originally Posted by Imapooonu

I say take enhanced purify cd down to 90 seconds max.

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While I wouldn't complain if Purify was a bit shorter (it would be nice), it isn't meant to remove every CC thrown at you. If they make it too short it will render most debuffs entirely useless.

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The impact is minimal, very minimal. It can also take a very long time to get for some.

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The impact is substantial, not minimal.
You cant just meld one materia and become magically immune, you need more than that. But if you stack it, it makes a difference. As for the time it takes, it's already been established that they are lowering the cost when they do the PvP balance update.

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If there were only 1 cc to deal with fine. But 150 seconds is simply too long for everything thrown at you.

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That's why you wait until the most advantageous moment to use it. You can remove many effects with it, not necessarily just one. As I said before, Purify is there to help you out of a tight spot, not to counter every effect that gets thrown on you. I wouldn't mind the cooldowns being shortened a bit 90/150sec. But they do need to be careful not to make it too short.

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So sleep isn’t op, but make sure to merc the blm? Got it.

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What is this I don't even? Merc the blm? what the hell do you mean by that? I'm sure your response was sarcastic, but your response makes no sense. Yes- BLM should be a priority target. MOST groups will target the caster DPS first. They're both the squishiest and usually the biggest threat.

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So sleep is not op, but meld every open slot you have with sleep resist? Got it. That’s OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive btw.

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As previously stated, they are lowering the cost of the resistance materia. Even at the current prices though, you could fill every regular slot on your lvl70 gear set with pvp materia and still have enough wolf marks to buy some lv90 stuff before reaching rank 30. I already know people who've done it. There are 11 materia slots (iirc) on the gear. That by itself provides a significant reduction in the duration of your debuff of choice. If you were to overmeld from what i've been hearing you can become highly resistant to the effect (like at half or greater reduction)

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The internal cooldown of diminishing returns is 1 minute and it's refreshed every time you apply the same effect successfully. Fully resisted spells do not refresh the timer. Since the final sleep before immunity lasts 7 seconds it means that you have 53 seconds of full resist before you can be slept for another 30-15-7 seconds.

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Yeah, and in my experience most battles are over before another 30sec sleep can happen again.

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Originally Posted by Spyrit

He's actually right, what makes you believe sleep works differently from pve? First sleep full duration, second sleep, half duration, third sleep full resist, just like in pve. Heals also remove sleep, so don't potion. Seems to me if you want to pvp with more utility you use your class and not your job.

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Here's how it works, first sleep goes for 30 sec, second one 15 sec, third one 7 secs, then after that you are immune for a little bit, somewhere around 1 min maybe? After that you can get slept for 30 sec and the chain restarts all over again, so yes you can get sleep multiple times for 30 secs in a single battle.

The internal cooldown of diminishing returns is 1 minute and it's refreshed every time you apply the same effect successfully. Fully resisted spells do not refresh the timer. Since the final sleep before immunity lasts 7 seconds it means that you have 53 seconds of full resist before you can be slept for another 30-15-7 seconds.

No CD on sleep skills is very unballanced ! A 30s CD on it will be a great decision for both pvp and pve

If sleep is nerfed remove the ability to interupt casts by doing damage. Can't have your cake and eat it to. I have never had a full resist happen at the 4th sleep cast on the same person, full resist on the third cast ALWAYS. Never did a forth one it was pointless. As many ways as there are to break sleep, sleep is fine. A Potion or heal and purity is enough to make sleep worthless.

You are missing something Spyrit, Black mage isn't a sleep bot !

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Originally Posted by Edenlys

You are missing something Spyrit, Black mage isn't a sleep bot !

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No instead I play ring around the rosie to avoid the dogpile on the blm bit. I'm bait. Because outside of a few cds I can't cast. WE are not supposed to sleep, we are not supposed to run, we are not supposed to cast while taking damage please tell me exactly what we are supposed to do?

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Originally Posted by Spyrit

No instead I play ring around the rosie to avoid the dogpile on the blm bit. I'm bait. Because outside of a few cds I can't cast. WE are not supposed to sleep, we are not supposed to run, we are not supposed to cast while taking damage please tell me exactly what we are supposed to do?

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Use surecast and equanmity (make sure to upgrade the duration on it)

Also you don't seem to realize that despite all these things you're not supposed to do, if you are being targeted, you kind of have to do those things- even if you didn't get interrupted on attack. You can play your target priority to your team's advantage. It might not be as "fun" as standing still trying to nuke people into oblivion but you will win more games by taking advantage of your situation.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Use surecast and equanmity.

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Sure. But then, right as Im about to finish my cast, I get silenced, and now I lose surecast. So I use equanimity, and right as Im about to get my fire3 off, I get stunned by the PLD or MRD/WAR. Im already down 8/20 seconds of equanimity, I dont even have astral up, and the tank has two more stuns (or holmgang, in MRD/WAR scenario) before DR comes up. What do you think the chances of me finishing one cast during all this is? Id say its pretty low.

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Originally Posted by Youmu

Sure. But then, right as Im about to finish my cast, I get silenced, and now I lose surecast. So I use equanimity, and right as Im about to get my fire3 off, I get stunned by the PLD or MRD/WAR. Im already down 8/20 seconds of equanimity, I dont even have astral up, and the tank has two more stuns (or holmgang, in MRD/WAR scenario) before DR comes up. What do you think the chances of me finishing one cast during all this is? Id say its pretty low.

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You cant use a hypothetical worst case scenario to argue against my point. I use those abilities all the time and they are my saving grace. (and all that stunning is why I'm going for stun resistance and not sleep resistance).

It doesn't sound to me like you're leveraging your allies as well as you should. Let them go in ahead of you. Stay hidden at the start and pop out when an oppertunity presents itself.

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Its not a hypothetical worst case scenario. Its what happens at high tier matches, every time.

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It doesn't happen to me every time. In fact rarely ever. I guess every single opponent I've ever faced was bad?

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

You cant use a hypothetical worst case scenario to argue against my point. I use those abilities all the time and they are my saving grace.

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Its not a hypothetical worst case scenario. Its what happens at high tier matches, every time. Is your point seriously as weak as "Bad players don't do it the way you say happens, must be balanced"?

I can't speak for the quality of opponents on your server group, but here rank 20+ is 85% 3 man premades, and they all know their stuff.

So by saying someone is saying they are getting slept 5 times in a row in a match is possible, it isn't.The realty is most blms are getting dogpiled, I use scathe not fire unless there is one player on the other team left, because anything with a cast time is next to impossible to cast without cds.

I don't understand why DOTS don't knock you out of sleep. That is a nerf that is definitely needed.

Arena is too tiny for for all the classes that have some sort of CC. It should have a unique battlefield with victory conditions/zone or cut their losses on a half ass pvp setup.