I'm disappointed with Alchemy

When the game first came out, I levelled Alchemy first because I was under the impression that I'd be able to make useful potions and consumables for my friends (and also to sell them). Since getting to level 50 in August, all I've used it for is to make the whm and smn relic weapons and meld materia into them.

I don't understand why the final 2 star recipes in the alchemy list are potions that can be obtained from treasure chests in most endgame dungeons (I have 7 X-Ethers just sitting around), and Elemental Ward Mega-Potions.

When I saw the Elemental potions, I was convinced they'd be very useful for Extreme primal fights to help reduce damage, but I was a bit confused as to why they were only 15 seconds. The Extreme fights are happening now, and still nobody's using them.

My recommendation is to drastically increase the duration of the elemental ward mega-potions in order to help make the primal fights useful, and also to make alchemy useful in the highest level of difficulty fights. I was thinking anywhere between 1:30-2 minutes would be completely appropriate.

What does everyone else think?

SE doesn't want crafting to be tied to endgame in any way, nor does it want it to be more useful than it is now. "Because that would promote RMT". Working as intended.

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Originally Posted by Xenobius

SE doesn't want crafting to be tied to endgame in any way, nor does it want it to be more useful than it is now. "Because that would promote RMT". Working as intended.

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While this is an odd stance to take on their part. Culinary is farm more useful at 50 than alchemy is. They even enhanced the usefulness in the last patch to make it fantastic for endgame. Why not actually make alchemy useful as well?

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Originally Posted by Iymala

While this is an odd stance to take on their part. Culinary is farm more useful at 50 than alchemy is. They even enhanced the usefulness in the last patch to make it fantastic for endgame. Why not actually make alchemy useful as well?

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This exactly. Making food be a huge upgrade and an almost necessary buff in the hardest fights in the game but no support for the other consumable item profession makes no sense.

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Originally Posted by Xenobius

SE doesn't want crafting to be tied to endgame in any way, nor does it want it to be more useful than it is now. "Because that would promote RMT". Working as intended.

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I understand RMT concerns but making something practically useless has made it pointless to have the items in the game period, much less having them as 2 star recipes of all things

I agree, ALC needs better level 50 synths and/or we need better potions. Oh well, at least the AF looks nice.

I have every craft at 50 and I used to think ALC was terrible but actually ALC has become my most profitable craft in 2.1 (not gonna tell you why, it's a trade secret).
As for consumables, yes you can find them in dungeons but those are NQ versions. The HQ versions have shorter cooldowns and higher potency. I personally craft lots of x-ethers for myself to pop in dungeons and raids. I use them frequently since I'm a WHM.

Xenobius more or less spelled it out. There was a post here in the crafting forum more or less stating as much a month or so ago (or maybe two, at this point).

Basically SE is scared of bots/RMT and (apparently) doesn't know how to stop them with code, so they try to stop them with game design which basically never works. It's sad, because the crafting system itself has so much potential.

I'm curious how fast their tune will change when all the aspiring crafters (and other players) end up cancelling their subscriptions due to being bored and/or feeling neglected.

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Originally Posted by Xenobius

SE doesn't want crafting to be tied to endgame in any way, nor does it want it to be more useful than it is now. "Because that would promote RMT". Working as intended.

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They're doing a pretty bad job of that then, seeing how two star melded crafts don't get replaced until the absolute top tier of content and there's no noncrafted replacement or equivalent of food.

I'd say that Alchemist brings one of the most powerful cross classes actions: Comfort Zone. That alone is worth the trouble to get it to lvl 50.

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Originally Posted by Michelasso

I'd say that Alchemist brings one of the most powerful cross classes actions: Comfort Zone.

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Only if you're comparing it to Reclaim or Step by Step.

Comfort Zone is nice in that you can always use it (on longer crafts, anyway) and it always provides a benefit, though you have ta think about it.

Before the patch dropped, I was actually makin' most of my craftin' money through Alchemy. X-Potions/Ethers were sellin' pretty well compared to their material cost, considerin' 125 tomes was 30 potions.

After the patch they don't really sell at all, thanks to more people runnin' dungeons for tomes instead of Primal farmin'. Comin' outta chests 2 or 3 at a time just makes the supply so high that the difference isn't big enough to warrant a decent price tag.

Reducin' the stuff in the chests to Mega-Potions might make a decent difference, for one.

Makin' the Resistance buffs a little more usable would be good too. Reducin' their Recast time to match an X-Potion would be pretty good -- They'd still be situational, but much more reliable, which is important for proactive things like that.

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Originally Posted by D_C

Comfort Zone is nice in that you can always use it (on longer crafts, anyway) and it always provides a benefit, though you have ta think about it.

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When you're trying to make 2 Star items 100% HQ, comfort zone is almost a must.
The stats requires so much materia overmelds that I'm quite happy to gain roughly the benefit of 7 CP+3 materias...

To OP. I think everyone is disappointed in Alchemy lol.

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Originally Posted by Shinkyo

When you're trying to make 2 Star items 100% HQ, comfort zone is almost a must.
The stats requires so much materia overmelds that I'm quite happy to gain roughly the benefit of 7 CP+3 materias...

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I'm a little confused about Comfort Zone, unless I'm looking at old information, it's only +14 CP at the end (8 CP x 10 - 66 CP = 14 CP).. I could see that giving you enough for maybe one additional action, but by itself that's not a lot. It's easy to get 45-54 CP from Rumination (which is a lot easier to get than CZ). I took a break from crafting for a while, so i'm just curious if there's something I'm missing with CZ

It puts you into a sort of CP debt, which lets you take full advantage of Good conditions that you otherwise would have gotten less CP back from. If, for example, your first move is Inner quiet, and the second turn the condition was Good, at best Tricks of the Trade could gain your 18 CP back. If you started with CZ, you would be down 66, and could hit Tricks for the full 20 (getting 28 back due to the CZ), and then hit Inner Quiet for a net cost of 10 CP that turn.

If your normal routine is to Inner quiet, then use Careful Synthesis 2 until you are 1 CS2 from finishing, then adding Quality, you could find yourself with several Good conditions that you could not otherwise take any real advantage of, due to a lack of CP spent. CZ, with its high initial cost, allows you to take better advantage of those.

Also, about Rumination : it becomes useless to you once you get Byregot's Blessing. BB is, once you have more than 3 Touches with IQ up and running, a cheaper, better, single-shot Super Touch. Once you get BB from Carpenter, you will never want to use Rumination again.

Im also disapointed. I leveld up alchemy only to find that potions are always a 15 sec buff, they really need to look at this they are too expensive to be worth using :(

A lot of the potions seem to have no use whatsoever, such as strength or mind potions. Each of which last only a few seconds and have exhaustively long recharges. In the time you waste using the potions, you've already countered any benefit gained from using them. I'd really like SE to rethink their stance on potions and make alchemy worth using for more than just it's tradable skills and level 55 weapons.

As for the RMT argument, I don't buy it. RMT will exist and function on whatever items make them money, be it consumables or weaponry. Heck, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that they were simply converting gear into materia and selling that to make their gil. Using them as a scapegoat to give us worthless potions is in poor taste in my opinion.

I think a minimum 1min timer should be placed on elemental potions and at least 30s for the stat boost potions. Preferably longer for the higher tier ones. They need to be worth using, not just a throwaway item designed for grinding crafting XP.

The only real use I have ever read of for the Int and Mind potions is right before summoning a pet. Since some of the pet's stats are determined by yours when you summon it, having a higher Mind would allow it to be a better healer, and having a higher Int would allow it to do more dps.

Can items be used in macros? I've considered the possibility that STR or MND potions might be useful in the same way that short-duration, long-recast job abilities are. So you could make a macro like:

/action "Fight or Flight" <me>
/item "Mega Potion of Strength" <me>
/item "Hi-Potion of Strength" <me>
/item "Potion of Strength" <me>

This macro would use Fight or Flight if it's available for a damage boost, and if it's not, would use a STR potion instead (if one is in your inventory) - maybe not as good as Fight or Flight, but still better than no buff at all.

I tried /item in my macros, though, and it didn't seem to work... Is there another way to use a macro command to consume an item?

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Can items be used in macros? [...] So you could make a macro like:

/action "Fight or Flight" <me>
/item "Mega Potion of Strength" <me>
/item "Hi-Potion of Strength" <me>
/item "Potion of Strength" <me>

[...]

I tried /item in my macros, though, and it didn't seem to work... Is there another way to use a macro command to consume an item?

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You will get better help in the user interface thread and please do not stray away from the main subject from this thread ;)

I'm also disappointed with Alchemy recipes, and how and why?

How: the amount of recipes for levelling diminish making the lower levels alchemists to have a short range of recipes to level from, which by the way they only require 2 DoL; when in 1.0 alchemist used recipes that required the 3 DoL; BOT and MIN in 2.0-2.1 and before in previous 1.0 BOT, MIN and Fisher. TRULY DISAPPOINTING!

Continuing... <.<;

Why: first class I got to level 50 in 1.0 was fisher and I loved it, now its boring has watching the green to grow up :eek:. Also the above mentioned diminish recipes where recipes that used fish to be crafted into shards, crystals or clusters. Which by the way mining for them is sluggish and not to mention that mining and harvesting already lost their light to me on the 2.0-2.1 versions.

When I first tried Garuda Extreme my friend who was tanking it told me the spike damage from wicked wheel was insane, as well as damage from reckoning and other unavoidable damage. So I made a few HQ what ever the best Wind Resistance potions are, he popped one and said he didn't notice any difference in damage. These potions add I believe 80 wind resistance on the dot, and it seemingly did nothing.

Potions. Are. Useless.

I could not point to you where I read it, but I remember reading that they took elemental damage out of the game (basically, just made it all either Physical or Magical), but left those elemental resists in. From what I remember reading, it was to avoid gimping Black Mages, who would have found themselves at a severe disadvantage should they ever find themselves against a foe that is highly resistant to Fire.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

I could not point to you where I read it, but I remember reading that they took elemental damage out of the game (basically, just made it all either Physical or Magical), but left those elemental resists in. From what I remember reading, it was to avoid gimping Black Mages, who would have found themselves at a severe disadvantage should they ever find themselves against a foe that is highly resistant to Fire.

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I would believe this 100% if not for ONE thing - in Garuda Extreme, when you kill the Spiny Plume and stand in the protective AoE bubble it leaves, it gives you a Wind Resistance buff, I think somewhere around 800. So it DOES do something, SE has proved this... but the numbers we are given access to seem to do literally nothing.

I've had Apocatastasis stacked up with Sentinel on Ifrit's Hellfire and taken like two-digit damage as well, so I'd like to believe it works. The problem seems to be that a deceptively large amount of attacks seem to actually be physical in nature. For example, Ifrit's Radiant Plumes and Eruptions can be stopped with Pacification and Stun, but not Silence, thus I'm assuming those actually deal physical damage, because they seem to count as physical skills/techniques rather than magic. <_<

I also just tested a Water Ward Hi-Potion (HQ) on a few Water Sprites. Their Water spam went from ~120 average hits to ~110 with the potion active, so about 8 % damage reduction.

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Originally Posted by peaches

When I first tried Garuda Extreme my friend who was tanking it told me the spike damage from wicked wheel was insane, as well as damage from reckoning and other unavoidable damage. So I made a few HQ what ever the best Wind Resistance potions are, he popped one and said he didn't notice any difference in damage. These potions add I believe 80 wind resistance on the dot, and it seemingly did nothing.

Potions. Are. Useless.

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Maybe wicked wheel is physical damage and not magical?

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

Maybe wicked wheel is physical damage and not magical?

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I suppose it could be. But that would mean Slipstream is physical too. Which brings another annoying point to light - too many attacks aren't clear on their damage type. So many look magical but are physical, and the reverse.

Regardless, I don't think the amount of resistance we've been given access to is adequate enough to do anything. You'd be better off saving your potion CD to use a health potion.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

The only real use I have ever read of for the Int and Mind potions is right before summoning a pet. Since some of the pet's stats are determined by yours when you summon it, having a higher Mind would allow it to be a better healer, and having a higher Int would allow it to do more dps.

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I read somewhere that this is no longer true. Apparently, when the SMN or SCH casts Rouse or Spur, the stats of the pet will be updated with the current buffs the SMN/SCH has. Hence, some time during a boss fight, the pet will lose the effect of the Mind/Int potion.