Punishing the wrong people.

With the 30 minute debuff on leaving the dungeon party. The reason people leave is because the party sucks. Not because the party is good. And at least 75% of the time it is not the person leaving.

Why even increase the timer? Dumb idea.

The whole point of the timer is to discourage people from ragequiting just because the party sucks.

It's supposed to make you stick with it, learn to work together and fix your mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

The whole point of the timer is to discourage people from ragequiting just because the party sucks.

It's supposed to make you stick with it, learn to work together and fix your mistakes.

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If the mistakes aren't yours, you can't fix them. You can try to help others, but you can't force them to get better. I just eat the 30 minutes in those cases.

They are going to be adding a group-wide "give up" option in the next patch that will not penalize you, so hopefully that will help and hopefully it doesn't need everyone to accept.

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The whole point of the timer is to discourage people from ragequiting just because the party sucks.

It's supposed to make you stick with it, learn to work together and fix your mistakes.

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It's not fun timing out when someone just isn't getting it.

People like the one who made this thread is the reason the punishment mechanism is there in the first place.

The duty finders (and especially the story/low level duty roulettes) are there to help those lower level people to overcome the obstacles in front of them. They're not there for you to trample all over the first timers so you get to your next philo/mytho piece of gear 3% faster.

If I join a PuG via the Duty Finder I accept that I might very well be getting myself into an inexperienced or otherwise unsuccessful group. If you're going to quit on half the people you're randomly thrown in with, stop using the Duty Finder.

I just got the 30 minute hit for being the THIRD person to leave. Bull.

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Originally Posted by ispano

If the mistakes aren't yours, you can't fix them. You can try to help others, but you can't force them to get better. I just eat the 30 minutes in those cases.

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Sure you can. You can fix plenty of mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Pesmergia

With the 30 minute debuff on leaving the dungeon party. The reason people leave is because the party sucks. Not because the party is good. And at least 75% of the time it is not the person leaving.

Why even increase the timer? Dumb idea.

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This is why you make a premade group and enter the dungeon, so you dont get the lockout............dont complain just because you dont get everything you want, learn to use stuff to your advantage instead

The only thing i hope they'll fix is allowing people to leave without penalty when the time is running short, let say 5-8 minutes left.

Why not just make the penalty the remaining time in the dungeon? This would solve all our woes ... right?

I tend to get all twisted inside when I hit a random group generator and some of the members are not up to speed. I mean, how DARE they try to join my random duty finder. Must I suffer the taint and trash of the newer player? This is my game, and my monthly sub means more then theirs... because I am a special little flower. You should punish those left in the dungeon from which I rage quite due to wasting my time.

There's a happy medium several people haven't acknowledged in this thread. You should be courteous to newbies and willing to keep trying after a couple of wipes. If the group keeps improving even if it's just gradual, you should keep trying.

However, there are times that groups are just bad. When you have someone that literally eats 9/10 Ifrit charges in Ultima hard mode because they're tired, watching Netflix, have bad connection, etc. then you shouldn't have to stay with the party after 4 wipes and 20 minutes of time.

There should be a happy medium when to stay and when to cut your losses. Keep trying after wipes if the group improves and has some potential. If the group's destined for failure after 20 minutes, everyone should be able to do a 'give up' option with no penalty.

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Originally Posted by Bayman

I tend to get all twisted inside when I hit a random group generator and some of the members are not up to speed. I mean, how DARE they try to join my random duty finder. Must I suffer the taint and trash of the newer player? This is my game, and my monthly sub means more then theirs... because I am a special little flower. You should punish those left in the dungeon from which I rage quite due to wasting my time.

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oboy i laughed so hard i almost washed my screen in coffee :D
Sir, you just made my day

I have left instances and just eaten the timer when I know that I am not geared well enough for the run. Like Haukke Manor hard mode, I queued for roulette thinking maybe I will get an ak or wp and was dropped into hm, after the difficulty we had just downing the first boss I told the pt I wasn't geared enough and good luck then left the dungeon and requeue'd as my healer when the lock out was done.

With a dps race like hm they really should have an ilvl requirement before they drop you in. I didn't want to waist anyone's time since I was on my so-so geared brd.

I also will eat the timer when I just cannot stand some jerk in the pt. Sorry I cant heal the pt on siren when your not stunning lunatic voice and a smn and blm are our dds and cannot control adds making me get stun locked then blame me for not using succor or lustrate (which I was and told them to check their logs before they QQ). Yep eat the timer in those cases too. Wish there was an "Leave duty do to jerks" option that reduced it to.

I think it is a good idea to have a longer timer. Tanks and healers often dont know how long DPSs are waiting for a duty, and to not even mention a COIL. They rage drop when something doesnt fit them. But SE could implement so that the Team leader may grant the "drop out" a penalty free leave, this would be fair. Then people maybe would stop call eachother stuff also.

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Originally Posted by BlackStigma

I think it is a good idea to have a longer timer. Tanks and healers often dont know how long DPSs are waiting for a duty, and to not even mention a COIL. They rage drop when something doesnt fit them. But SE could implement so that the Team leader may grant the "drop out" a penalty free leave, this would be fair. Then people maybe would stop call eachother stuff also.

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I don't think that would be fair. If you leave you deserve the penalty. Simple as that. And no blessing from the "team leader" changes that.

Considering you are being thrown together with a bunch of strangers who have never played together before, there is a chance things won't go smoothly. That's just a reality everyone who uses the duty finder should be prepared to deal with.

Rage quitting is terrible and I will always stick it out and try to help players out to the best of my ability. The only time I will "quite" on someone is me and a 1 FC memeber qued for AK and the healer got pissed at someone so he just stopped healing us on kept making us die. We did not say or do anything to this healer he was just being an As$. That is the only time I will quit aside form Real Life emergencies.

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Originally Posted by Worm

Sure you can. You can fix plenty of mistakes.

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No, the person making the mistakes needs to fix them. You can offer them advice, tell them what they need to do, etc. But none of that means anything if they themselves don't fix the mistake.

I rarely find a party that is unwilling to listen in the DF. This post makes the assumption that the players are just bad, or they don't have the desire to beat whatever dungeon you are in. I will stress other than some of the primals that require constant attention to party mechanics, there is no dungeon out there that with 10-15 of time with the individual(s) that are struggling that cannot be downed. It all is up to you and your approach on teaching them. I actually get very upset at all the people that pass blame as soon as a wipe happens. If a wipe or 10 happen take a look back at what went wrong. Find the problem and address it with that player, there is no sense in raging about it. I am almost taking you original post as the people who are not as "good" as you are the ones who should be punished. How is that fair?

What would happen if they removed the penalty for leaving a duty:

I'm a tank and I feel like laughing at others' misfortune because I'm a terrible person. So I decide that I'm going to spend my evening finding groups on the duty finder and then leaving 1 minute after everyone loads in. Because I'm a tank and because there's nothing stopping me from doing it over and over again, I get to ruin several dozen people's evenings and fall asleep laughing at their cries.

It's important for the penalty to exist because griefers will always exist.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

They are going to be adding a group-wide "give up" option in the next patch that will not penalize you, so hopefully that will help and hopefully it doesn't need everyone to accept.
It's not fun timing out when someone just isn't getting it.

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Woot Give up vote ftw , this feature totally must have to save ppl's from 30 min penality . I really don't like to quit , if i feel that party really trying / attempting to boss to win or learn i allways stay till timer hit or pt start to disband , but if i see damn trolls who waste other ppl's time i def hitting my 30 ;)

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Originally Posted by Fumamyena

I rarely find a party that is unwilling to listen in the DF. This post makes the assumption that the players are just bad, or they don't have the desire to beat whatever dungeon you are in. I will stress other than some of the primals that require constant attention to party mechanics, there is no dungeon out there that with 10-15 of time with the individual(s) that are struggling that cannot be downed. It all is up to you and your approach on teaching them. I actually get very upset at all the people that pass blame as soon as a wipe happens. If a wipe or 10 happen take a look back at what went wrong. Find the problem and address it with that player, there is no sense in raging about it. I am almost taking you original post as the people who are not as "good" as you are the ones who should be punished. How is that fair?

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I've seen all kinds. People who will listen, but don't use the advice. Others who rage at you for even saying something to them about what's happening. Some do listen for sure, but not all of them.

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

The whole point of the timer is to discourage people from ragequiting just because the party sucks.

It's supposed to make you stick with it, learn to work together and fix your mistakes.

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You can't "stick with" a group that sucks so bad that they cannot beat the 1st boss of AK after 9 tries, sorry.

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Originally Posted by Moontide

People like the one who made this thread is the reason the punishment mechanism is there in the first place.

The duty finders (and especially the story/low level duty roulettes) are there to help those lower level people to overcome the obstacles in front of them. They're not there for you to trample all over the first timers so you get to your next philo/mytho piece of gear 3% faster.

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I always stay and explain every fight, and even suck it up after 5-7 failed attempts and manage to finally come out on top.

How do you have any right to call me out on anything, when you have never grouped with me?

YOU are probably the pretender on forums.

The issue at hand relates to the original post - Tanks are so desperately needed, they can do pretty much what they want. Without a penalty, they can enter, check the gear of the party and drop when they don't see relic +1's across the board because they know they will be in the same dungeon again in less than 60 seconds. I did a random WP the other day and on entry, the tank didn't move and simply said in pty chat "Kick me please." The SMN was obviously new but not a train wreck in terms of gear.

And honestly, 30 minutes is not a terrible punishment. Check your mail, go do a number 2 and make snack, and voila.

Ragequitting is duty Finder at its worst, total anti-social behaviour. And not to mention that most ragequitters are the bigmouths, often with ilvl 60 gear only (but a relic +1), those who are totally incapable tzhemselves and ragequit because they blame others for being unable to carry them (aka "/sh be highly experienced and higly geared!!!111!!"). This is a japanese game and about helping each other and mastering difficulties together, not CoD or something which is designed for retarded gangsta teens who mean they need to prove something. This is a social game, not a competition.

It is not the "inferior" people who have to help you to reach your goals. It is you who is supposed to help and train them until they made it.

The penalty for ragequitting is still way too low. It should be 24 hours.

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Originally Posted by SolArisa

.....snip.............

The penalty for ragequitting is still way too low. It should be 24 hours.

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You're joking right? It doesn't sound that way, but I'm going to assume you are.

I see your point, on the other hand, there are great many people who would just leave because they got party of newer players for example, which would make it even more difficult to "get into it". This somewhat helps, as it will often prevent the "nice" people from doing just that.

In regards to kicking;

IMO, if the party really is bad, there's usually going to be a 3-1 vote.

But if those 3 people are in a party, that 1 person will get kicked.

So if you're that 1 person in a group, you won't win in a vote kick - so you have to leave.

I don't think the vote-kick should be allowed to be used if there is 1 or more pre-made party in the dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Sobius

The issue at hand relates to the original post - Tanks are so desperately needed, they can do pretty much what they want. Without a penalty, they can enter, check the gear of the party and drop when they don't see relic +1's across the board because they know they will be in the same dungeon again in less than 60 seconds.

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Even with the penalty, they still quit. I've had several trials where, after just one attempt, someone left without a word. And I hear stories from FC members about DF party members who take one look at their party in an instance and bail (one person even apparently bailed because he was doing low level roulette and got Sastasha again!). The view appears to be something along the lines of, "Even with my 30 minute penalty, I'll still have a shorter wait time than the DPS in my group will. So I'm leaving."

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Originally Posted by Melinia

Even with the penalty, they still quit. I've had several trials where, after just one attempt, someone left without a word. And I hear stories from FC members about DF party members who take one look at their party in an instance and bail (one person even apparently bailed because he was doing low level roulette and got Sastasha again!). The view appears to be something along the lines of, "Even with my 30 minute penalty, I'll still have a shorter wait time than the DPS in my group will. So I'm leaving."

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None of that should matter. Instances in progress get priority for getting members placed in group over people waiting in queue. I haven't had to wait more than 4 minutes for an instance in progress to replace someone who left.

Ever play roulette in the casino? You can't win every roll..,
Duty roulette has better odds then a casino!

What an awesome thread...
/end sarcasm
Aborting trash is the reason I am still stuck on titan hm... All the rage quitters that would rather abort then show people new techniques after people fail two or three times...

I've aborted one time, and that's because I forgot to repair my gear before I went in the dungeon...

It would be nice if after, say 3 wipes, the penalty was waived.

That would be horrible. TANK : this party sucks. Imma not use flash and get us kiled so I can leave. Wipe. Wipe. Wipe. See ya later! Troll central.

It's good to be the tank.

This annoys me as well. On christmas i wanted to get some random people their relics so i queued with my ilvl87 tank, you would think people are more motivated to stay and keep trying right? Nope i think that the third try somebody already just left without saying a word.

Personally i dont get tanks that just take 1 look at a group and leave, that stuff has never even crossed my mind. I've had super obvious relic buyers failing nine times at DEMON WALL, i swear to god i was the only one left at the end, fighting demon wall toe to toe with selfhealing and an inch of platform to move on. And i've had bad geared dps that do their best and are extra motivated and nice for having a good tank in the group, resulting in much more fun and better runs. If only i could do Roulette with my tank while giving the bonus exp to a dps class of mine.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

They are going to be adding a group-wide "give up" option in the next patch that will not penalize you, so hopefully that will help and hopefully it doesn't need everyone to accept.



It's not fun timing out when someone just isn't getting it.

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people leave too soon sometimes, never really giving it a try in the first place. because they feel there would be too many wipes before its done, i can underatand leaving in garuda-ex if the tanks dont know what is spiny or not enuf dps . but there is leavers on many part of the game not just end game trials. consider the leaves of ct whet they get their loot, or leavers from low dungengs when they get their hunting log its a prety comon thing. or that tank in satatash that leaves 10 seconds into the fight because some dps pulled without even warning us or such i had that happen. there needs to be a penalty to discourage people from using duty finder just to leave.

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Originally Posted by Bayman

I tend to get all twisted inside when I hit a random group generator and some of the members are not up to speed. I mean, how DARE they try to join my random duty finder. Must I suffer the taint and trash of the newer player? This is my game, and my monthly sub means more then theirs... because I am a special little flower. You should punish those left in the dungeon from which I rage quite due to wasting my time.

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OMG ROFLMMFAO, That was good.

then make ur own premade team n do the dungeons that way.. majority of df users use it for experience n to learn lol its not for pros to abuse n treat newer less experienced players like rubbish... which sadly.... u see way to often <.<