This dungeon is clearly unfavorable to be done with none decent gear. At an ilvl req. of 48, we currently have fresh 50's trying to farm this dungeon for gear in duty finder. Problem is majority of this dungeon is dependent to some degree on DPS.
First boss fight for example, the longer this fight drags on, the harder it is to maintain both with the debuff stacking, and dogs increasing in number. Flailing DPS cannot handle this.
Second boss, similar issue with adds.
Fresh 50's (no relic, no AF gear) make this dungeon overall unbearable.
I'd personally recommend an ilvl req of at least 60, preferably 65.
In hindsight, I was hasty with that, I'd say 55-58 then, considering 60 gear drops there.Quote:
Originally Posted by KiraJ
[Request] Please up the ilvl requirement for Pharos Sirius
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12-30-2013, 12:37 AMHavenchild[Request] Please up the ilvl requirement for Pharos Sirius
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12-30-2013, 12:44 AMMuzy
On the one hand, I do agree that it does have some walls that gear definitely helps over come, putting it at a higher requirement than Titan HM is wayyy over kill.
But honestly, it's more of a skill check than a gear check, it is a hell of a lot easier than people think, so long as people pay attention and do their jobs. First boss spawning adds too quick? Slow DPS and kill adds, then work on boss, too many debuffs? Dodge more and focus on the adds more.
Second boss, problems with adds? Slow DPS on boss and focus on adds.
Problems with Tyrant? Kill adds instead of ignoring?
Siren? Kill Zombies, interrupt Lunatic Voice, dodge her feral lunge, pay attention to debuffs and start healing that charmed person right away, make damn sure people run in for mass charm.
Yes, with less geared people it will take longer, but it's fully doable so long as people are doing what they are supposed to and know how to play their class. -
12-30-2013, 12:45 AMWobiThen they would need to up the gear level that drops from here as a result, otherwise why do it at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by Havenchild
Also from what I've heard the Siren is designed to spawn zombies at certain HP levels, if you burn down the her down too fast you can get overwhelmed. I first did this with all relic/allagan geared people and they were spawning in waves more or less non-stop. The mid-boss is a bit over-tuned however. -
12-30-2013, 01:05 AMAmyas
What is this.. I don't even...
lvl 60 gear drops from PS @-@
I've tanked it with two fresh 50 DD in af just fine. -
12-30-2013, 01:06 AMMadoka
Most of the adds spawn on hp%s, so faster dps will get overwhelmed more easily. When I go in there I don't do my full dps rotations or else we'll have 12 dogs or 8 eggs hatching at once
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12-30-2013, 01:07 AMMuzyYerp, people just expect to be able to brute force everythingQuote:
Originally Posted by Amyas
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12-30-2013, 01:10 AMKiraJWhy not make it 85? I mean okay the items that drop in there are just 60, but why making sense if we can make things just faceroll easy. Pwah...let's make it iLvl 120 so one can solo it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Havenchild
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12-30-2013, 01:12 AMviion
If you are rushing the first boss, you will get lots of dogs, its based on HP iirc, so a full pt of fresh 50 wouldnt have an issue as they would be slow at killing it in general and it would pan out better.
The rest is pretty simple, a lot of stuff you can stun and handle. The only things difficult is the first boss, siren you can stun most so its meh or keep hp full, tough i know but use your LB if its that tough. First boss its more about focusing on Ads and not trying to zerg him.
Overall the dungeon is annoying, so is both hard modes. I find them tougher in pug and more annoying than coil/ct lol -
12-30-2013, 01:19 AMHavenchildIt's not as simple as a brute force everything. It's quite possible that in DF, your running with DPS that literally can't kill one dog before the next set spawns. Putting aside where the 60 gear drops, its not only from Pharos Sirius either. There's gear dropping not so different, in AK, WP etc. Of course people are going to say something like "I ran with two fresh 50s and I had no problems at all", because its completely practical that it happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzy
But people with all whites in Pharos Sirius? If you can honestly say running with a tank with 4400HP and DPS both with full whites (no relic) is completely possible 100% of the time,I'd implore anyone to tell me the secret to this.
Of course it's doable, that doesn't mean its viable. The same way housing prices and saving up for them is doable, that doesn't mean the prices aren't outrageous. -
12-30-2013, 01:21 AMHavenchildI usually make it a point to tell my groups to kill the adds first, people don't exactly listen though. Can't really do anything about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by viion
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12-30-2013, 01:23 AMviionUpping the ilv requirement wont fix that unfortunately. CT is proof lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Havenchild
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12-30-2013, 01:29 AMMuzyAin't that the truth, it really doesn't matter what you put the requirements at, incompetent players are everywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by viion
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12-30-2013, 01:59 AMShoriI believe this to be the main point of the dungeon? To aquire the next ilvl of gear?Quote:
Originally Posted by Havenchild
Tired of 'the best' players wanting an easy ride... no the best players are the strategic and helpful ones. -
12-30-2013, 02:35 AMZakalwe
People talk about fresh 50s without AF gear. How is this possible? The lvl45 and lvl50 class quests get you that gear for free.
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12-30-2013, 02:47 AMJubez187
I'm not a casual gamer by any means, but when I did Copperbell hard fresh outta the main scenario I can say that I felt pretty undergeared for it. I was down to wipe 100 times, but then I realized it just wasn't going to happen. Oh well, gives me something to strive for nonetheless. But I do agree those ilvl requirements are pretty low.
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12-30-2013, 03:17 AMWorm
Yeah I think the real issue here is 'the best' players coming into dungeons and facerolling it. They don't understand tactics or the finer points of fights so they see a wipe and rather than it being some lack of execution on certain mechanics it has to be gear, since the fight went fine when they ran it with a bunch of people in ilvl 90. I've done all these fights on my current character (Haukke HM, Copperbell HM, and Sirius).
Generally the DPS opposite me did have a relic but it's not like I was 100DPS behind them or something. Generally either someone knew the fights pretty well or we did something wrong (like making me try to DPS the boss and do rocks at the final boss of Copperbell) and corrected it. My only issue was people who didn't say anything or immediately ran back into the boss after a wipe that we had no time to address or talk through. -
12-30-2013, 04:06 AMAmyasOf course people are going to whine about something like "I ran with two fresh 50s and I had so many problems because gear", because its completely practical that it happens like that every time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Havenchild
Stop being a baddy. Its incredibly easy when people know what to do, regardless of gear. Hell I ran it with a 4k hp tank last night and had 0 problems whatsoever other than me being stupid on the Roc as a dd and accidently killing an extra egg with an autoattack while tabbing through.Quote:
Originally Posted by Havenchild
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12-30-2013, 04:31 AMHavenchildStop being a baddie? What does me playing WHM in a run and keeping everyone alive as best as humanly possible ( mind you me being the last one alive, since I know everything about the dungeon for the most part) have to do with upping the ilvl in a dungeon that's a clear uphill struggle for people undergeared without a shred of DL on them or AF gear on them? You do realize that as a battle drags on damn near forever, MP doesn't magically appear out of thin air. You do run out of MP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amyas
Sitting comfortably at 4.6k MP, and knowing quite well how to solo heal things like Titan HM which require being quite careful with MP usage, whats being a baddie have to do with anything?
Don't try to hurl irrelevant insults that don't even apply to this.
Of course I have already done runs with undergeared people mainly in whites, and HAVE finished the run. It OBVIOUSLY is possible. That's not the point here. The uphill battle is still quite present.
The difference between someone with just whites/ maybe a few level 55 gear, and someone with say a relic and some DL gear is clearly noticeable when watching DPS. Not because it makes the fights super easy because even in the latter, its still a struggle here and there sometimes, but because things do not drop fast enough before something like a healers MP runs out. I'm not sure how much Cure I's I'd have to use just to get that free MP for Cure 2 just to save MP, or not using a Medica I until more then 3 people were under say 75% HP. There's only so much you can do.
I was unsure about this myself for awhile but a lot of it is basically fate rushed people who don't bother with job quests before getting DL gear. Not every class has skills worth getting. So I'd imagine they gear directly for DL gear instead since the AF would be replaced anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakalwe
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12-30-2013, 04:50 AMAmyasThey aren't 'undergeared', its impossible to be 'undergeared' when you meet the ilvl prereq. You're just overgeared and a baddy for expecting everyone else to overgear for an easy instance that drops ilvl60 gear (that's also only been out a couple weeks...) so you can get your tomes faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by Havenchild
That's it. -
12-30-2013, 04:58 AMHavenchild
See this is what I'd like people to think about. If all were gonna argue about is that it's doable with no problem regardless of gear, then what the heck was the point of having an ilvl requirement for duty finder in the first place? All the dungeons pre 2.1 were doable with average gear to DL or beyond, yes EVEN COIL T1-T2, or at the very least DL gear for T4. If all were gonna say to upping the ilvl req for a dungeon that clearly is unfavorable to more undergeared people, is too bad, it can be done anyway, then I ask next what was even the point of having ilvl requirements to begin with?
Wasn't this supposed to help prevent the fact that people were holding back others in more established raids are primal fights, because DF was unbiased on who it chose?
You can buy fresh whites from every vender at level 50 and still MEET the ilvl requirement of 48 for pharos sirius. That means nothing if thats the "req met". The same way that you could buy the same level 50 whites pre 2.1 but people complained about being held back in primal fights and other dungeons, which was indeed true for DPS racing mechanics like Titans Heart or Ifrits nails, Tonberry Boss, Demon Wall, AK Boss etcetc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amyas
Even if we go down to the last few seconds of the raid and clear it, I will stay for the full raid, that is of no importance to me to claim to be more overgeared vs undergeared. Im not looking for a speed run. -
12-30-2013, 05:03 AMAmyasIt was implemented because of the very rare occasion people would join groups in crafting gear or with all level 1 accessories, or no gear at all. Not to give people who were overgeared for an instance a big fatQuote:
Originally Posted by Havenchild
http://dinochiesa.net/wp-content/upl...asy-button.jpg
I still can't get over the fact you're arguing for an dungeon that drops ilvl 60 gear to have its ilvl requirement upped to 60 or more. Crazy. -
12-30-2013, 05:05 AMCHunterXI don't think you understand how many people hop straight off the FATE train into dungeons wearing whatever garbage they had left over from a previous class. For example, I've had many a tank wearing their old Lancer armor (why GLD/MRD can equip LNC gear is still beyond my comprehension).Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakalwe
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12-30-2013, 05:09 AMDarksword
I did a Haukke DF run a couple nights ago with the nicest PLD. He was in full AF, with the DL sword and HQ AH jewelry. A fresh 50, but he had skills. He and another guy had never been there before, so I walked them through the bosses and pulls. We wiped a couple times on each boss, but always managed to win. The PLD took quite a bit of damage but nothing unmanageable for my SCH, and he held hate very well.
We timed out on Hellicarnassus getting the DD positioning on the twin adds down. The last go was perfect though. The timer ran out right as we knocked Amandine down to about 15% and I was pre-casting Succor as she was being eaten. We had the win in the bag.
I think the average level for the dungeons is just fine, provided that its reached by normal armor and a higher level weapon. Really theyre all just DPS checks. A DRG in full AF with Ifrit or Garuda's spear would do just fine in Pharos and still be right by the level requirement. Same for Haukke and Copperbell. I'll bet a full team in all AF with Ifrit's weapons, food, and medicine could clear all three with a just bit of difficulty. -
12-30-2013, 05:28 AMrabbitzeroIsn't this a thing of the past, or will be soon, though? With fate parties gone from what i've seen, more people running dungeons to level, and how insanely easy it is to get philo gear (at least cheaper parts), not counting bad gear rolling, it seems the days of people trying level 50 with level 30 or so gear should be dropping off (not counting that it's now locked to item level).Quote:
Originally Posted by CHunterX
I'm also guessing there could be people who skip a lot of quests to either save for alt classes, or don't know about the AF quests, not getting them. -
12-30-2013, 05:51 AMWormSo the ilvl requirement itself intrinsically proves that we need a higher requirement because if people in ilvl 48 gear were really meant to be doing it there'd be ... no requirement on ilvl at all? What? Maybe SE didn't want to have the high level queue favor old dungeons so they didn't make the ilvl requirements different, I dunno.Quote:
Originally Posted by Havenchild
I think most people can agree with knocking it up a notch so people at least quest for their job gear, maybe grab their GC weapon. Your problem is that you started out saying it should be 60 or 65 which was CRAZY, and then you down graded to 55 to 58 which is still pretty crazy. It's just hard to take you seriously with these limits you want to see on PS. -
12-30-2013, 08:20 AMBlueMage
The place drops i60 gear. It would be weird if the iLv requirement was 60 or above.
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12-30-2013, 08:22 AMBlueMageThe problem was there were a LOT of players in DF who were going into dungeons like AK with sub Lv30 gear/weapons, because you dont need gear to leech credit in FATE parties. Its one thing if someone's in AF with i48+ gear, but something had to be done about people going in with less.Quote:
Originally Posted by Havenchild
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12-30-2013, 09:03 AMRi_riI've never seen it. Never, ever, in the 300+ dungeon runs I've had.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueMage
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12-30-2013, 09:05 AMispanoIt's not as common in recent weeks, even before 2.1. It was a much bigger issue earlier on, especially with Titan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ri_ri
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12-30-2013, 09:34 AMAmyasIn my 300+ runs I've only seen it once, in pre-nerf AK. Blm with lvl 20-30 accessories, everything else was AF/dl wep. Slowed the run down a tiny bit, but nothing to get too upset over. (did irk me a bit before wall, but we cleared it fine so I cared less after lol)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ri_ri
Then again, maybe it was much more prevalent and I just never really saw it because I never /examined people unless they had something cool on lol. -
12-30-2013, 11:07 AMFelisCIt was not common, but I've seen it. I had a DF tank for WP wearing Cactur earings with a weapon in the 30s.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ri_ri
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12-30-2013, 11:12 AMMalendroit
Know the boss mechanics and it'll be a breeze with fresh 50's or without.