War Stats?

Anyone figured out yet what the main stats we should be aiming for? Aside the common basic. Just wanted to see some opinions..

I've kinda somewhat ditched crit rating for determination now when I see the chance.

For main staits?

Vitality>parry
For offensive its str>crit>det

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Originally Posted by Leiron

For main staits?

Vitality>parry
For offensive its str>crit>det

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Mhm, just curious to see if it was still the same. Lucky my gear priority is just the way you listed the stats still, no real difference between crit and det. Wanted to be sure before chasing some det gear.

Complex question. What you're wearing will depend on what you're gearing for and who you're bringing with you. Leiron has it very wrong one way or the other, though. For offense, it's DTR -> SSPD -> Crit. Don't bother with crit as you get flat bonuses from Wrath and Inner Release which reduce its utility. Skill Speed helps you get off an extra hit in Berserk, which alone (one hit every 90s) crushes the entire value of putting crit everywhere you can get it. Never, ever gear crit as WAR. There's a reason it is on a single piece of WAR equipment. DTR has greater value the lower your damage, so if you're in full ilvl90 fending, DTR has high marginal returns. If you're wearing melded Gryphonskin, then the DTR isn't much better than skill speed, so gear to that extra hit in Berserk.

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

Complex question. What you're wearing will depend on what you're gearing for and who you're bringing with you. Leiron has it very wrong one way or the other, though. For offense, it's DTR -> SSPD -> Crit. Don't bother with crit as you get flat bonuses from Wrath and Inner Release which reduce its utility. Skill Speed helps you get off an extra hit in Berserk, which alone (one hit every 90s) crushes the entire value of putting crit everywhere you can get it. Never, ever gear crit as WAR. There's a reason it is on a single piece of WAR equipment. DTR has greater value the lower your damage, so if you're in full ilvl90 fending, DTR has high marginal returns. If you're wearing melded Gryphonskin, then the DTR isn't much better than skill speed, so gear to that extra hit in Berserk.

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Is it?
I had originally thought that the effect of Wrath and Inner Release were considered multiplicative off of your base crit rate, not a flat bonus. If that is the case then my mistake.
Sspd I am personally unsure of, it takes a ton of Sspd in order to receive an appreciative gain, same with Det.
Do you have a link for their values?

I'd be interested in seeing a link also cause I never thought of SSPD being much value for war tanking.

OFFENSIVELY gearing War... I would go STR > DET / SS > Crit .... Str and Det have direct gains, while SS has short tiers, and Crit has larger tiers. I would not be going offensive in Defiance, so I wouldn't count on that crit boost.

DEFENSIVELY gearing War... I would go, Str (until the next parry tier if reach able) > Parry (until the next parry tier) > VIT > DET. This is assuming you can reach those caps without sacrificing a LOT of other stats

I see absolutely no reason to put Strength above vitality nor Parry for that matter.
Parry only functions on physical abilities, and it is chanced based.
Vitality increases your survivability against all attacks, isn't tired, and has immediate effects on it.
Pf course...WAR gear provides Vit anyway so its a moot point I guess.

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Originally Posted by Leiron

Is it? I had originally thought that the effect of Wrath and Inner Release were considered multiplicative off of your base crit rate, not a flat bonus.

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CHR adds about 0.07% per point. If you got 30% of 341, you'd get a whopping 7% out of traited Inner Release on PGL, and your total crit rate would be around 12% while using Inner Release. A simple sanity check will have you know better. Did some test parses to be sure, all autoattacks (because Raptor Stance seem to increase crit rate by 5%, of which I was not aware until I tried using Bootshine spam):

parse: 25000 damage
crit%: 8.4%

set 1: 2 reg 5 crit
set 2: 5 reg 2 crit
set 3: 4 reg 3 crit
set 4: 3 reg 4 crit
set 5: 4 reg 3 crit
set 6: 7 reg 0 crit
set 7: 1 reg 5 crit (screwed up timing, missed one attack)
set 8: 6 reg 1 crit
set 9: 5 reg 2 crit
set 10: 5 reg 2 crit

total: 42 reg, 27 crit
avg crit rate: 39.13%

Conclusion: 30% flat increase

Abilities rarely have much rhyme or reason as to how they apply. Greased Lightning actually speeds up everything by 15%, but Fey Light/Glow increase the skill/spell speed stat and therefore have a very small effect (and are multiplicative with skill/spell speed bonuses).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leiron

Sspd I am personally unsure of, it takes a ton of Sspd in order to receive an appreciative gain, same with Det.
Do you have a link for their values?

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All of them are pretty minor. It's mainly a matter of understanding the specific advantages of each. DTR is a bonus to everything you do and is especially powerful on autoattacks. However, it is additive with STR's contribution and has diminishing returns with itself and with STR, meaning the stronger you are, the less you want it. It's great on MNKs and PLDs especially due to high autoattack portion, and fairly decent on WAR due to low STR. CHR adds 0.07% chance per point to deal 50% more damage with every shot (and proc special bonuses like Adloquium's doubled barrier). CHR's bonus is linear and therefore suffers diminishing relative returns with itself as well as diminishing returns with other crit bonuses (Inner Release, Wrath, Life Surge). CHR is especially good on DRG and SCH. SSPD is viewed as an orphaned stat due to the legion of weaknesses. SSPD is the only stat with accelerating relative gains, but it also increases resource drain, does not benefit DoTs or abilities at all, and doesn't affect autoattacks (lolwut). If more than 30% of your damage output is autoattacks and DoTs, then it's really hard to make up the difference DPS-wise. And yes, that is every job in the game except BLM and WHM. SSPD is terrible on SCH, SMN, BRD, isn't really worth focusing over CHR on BLM, often clips DoTs and is exceedingly wasteful on jumps for DRG. What it does is generally give you the room to use an extra ability while in buffed phases like Berserk, and because Berserk is followed by pacification, you get the full value of that hit. It also increases WAR's mitigation by reducing IB and SP downtime.

Basically, your melee jobs look like this in terms of stat priorities:

PLD: PAR > DTR > CHR > SSPD
WAR: PAR > SSPD > DTR > CHR (typically -- DTR could be better than SSPD depending on the situation)
DRG: CHR > DTR > SSPD
MNK: DTR > DTR > DTR > DTR > everything sucks but DTR

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

Abilities rarely have much rhyme or reason as to how they apply. Greased Lightning actually speeds up everything by 15%, but Fey Light/Glow increase the skill/spell speed stat and therefore have a very small effect (and are multiplicative with skill/spell speed bonuses).

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The rhyme or reason depends upon what's being buffed, and it's important to recognize what's actually getting buffed since the semantics of what is said is very important: attack speed and skill/spell speed are different attributes, as are attack/spell power and damage/healing. How the bonus is applied is determined by the type of bonus that can be broken into 2 categories: *increases* to a percentile value (like critical hit or evasion chance) and static bonuses are additive whereas decreases to percentage values (what we normally call damage reduction is actually written as "reduces damage taken" so it is a decrease, not an increase) as well as any modifier to an attribute that isn't limited in any way (like the stuff listed on your character sheet) are multiplicative. Debuffs are in the same category as their relevant buffs.

I've yet to see any buff/debuff that doesn't follow these "rules".

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Originally Posted by Kitru

How the bonus is applied is determined by the type of bonus that can be broken into 2 categories: *increases* to a percentile value (like critical hit or evasion chance) and static bonuses are additive whereas decreases to percentage values (what we normally call damage reduction is actually written as "reduces damage taken" so it is a decrease, not an increase) as well as any modifier to an attribute that isn't limited in any way (like the stuff listed on your character sheet) are multiplicative. Debuffs are in the same category as their relevant buffs.

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While that is technically true, it sort of ignores the problem. There is no ambiguity with bonuses that are not percentage-based. Other effects which have no associated stat, like evasion or attack speed, and those necessarily have to be tested to know (and I don't think anyone ever determined whether Featherfoot is additive, multiplicative, whether or how it stacks with blind, etc). However, FFXIV has stats affecting percentile values which are themselves not percentile values, like critical hit rate. Inner Release description states: "Increases critical hit rate by 30%." What it actually does is increases the chance to critical hit by a flat 30%, and it does nothing involving the critical hit rate stat. This would have an exact analogue in the description of Berserk, which states "Increases attack power by 50%, except that ability does exactly what the description states -- "Increases [stat name] by X%". It just ends up being pretty sloppy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Leiron

Is it?
I had originally thought that the effect of Wrath and Inner Release were considered multiplicative off of your base crit rate, not a flat bonus. If that is the case then my mistake.
Sspd I am personally unsure of, it takes a ton of Sspd in order to receive an appreciative gain, same with Det.
Do you have a link for their values?

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Specifically crit rate is a stat that suffers from what's known as diminshing returns.

Each extra point of crit is exponentially less valuable than the last.

Best illistration of this model would be for exageration sake lets say you have a 99% chance to crit it is safe to say you have almost no chance to not crit and as such any additional crit rate is pointless.

Bit extreme of an example but the close you get to 100% chance to crit theess chance you have to not crit which lowers the value of crit.

Sorry for the wall o words.

Closer to 100% chance to crit the less...* posting from my phone won't let me edit.

You got ninja'd awhile ago Kirigiya.