Theres alot of chatter on here comparing FFXIV to FFXI and people wanting alot of things from XI to be put into XIV.
People saying things like XI was/is so popular so why aren't these things in this and XI is thriving while XIV is struggling so put all this stuff in.
I played XI for over 4 years and thoroughly enjoyed it and I'm sure if XI had a graphics overhaul and new plot added i'd be happy to play it but it would be XI or XI-2.
The thing is XIV wasn't ment to be XI-2 and compared to certain other mmo's XI wasn't popular and is currently in decline not thriving hence there are less servers now.
The way I see it they were trying to get a more engaging battle system in this, one that you couldn't semi-afk fight and would have to be more tactical.
Thats why you get more crits when behind a mob and the whole mechanic of disabling certain parts of a monster by hitting certains sides of the monsters with specific attacks. There was talk of magitek armour that has since not been mentioned.
There are some interesting concepts in this game there just has been poor implimentation of them and a lack of content to play through. Leves are fine but they should be more on the side thing like fields of valor in XI. If they were intended to be the main leveling content then there was a big underestimation of the variety that was needed. There is a definite need for a substantial amount of plot line to be added along with dungeon crawls and other events of some kind as well as more voiced cutscenes. The UI could do with some teaks and I do personaly agree that the fammiliar things from XI like /sea all party flags etc should have found there way into this. But also a more customisable UI would have been appreciated along with support for voice chat which I think is even more important once it comes out on the PS3.
What would have been good is if the development team posted up the orginal brief/concept for us to draw ideas from rather than leaving people drawing on XI for the type of content they want and not forming orginal concepts. If this becomes XI-2 all that will happen is people will slowly move from XI to XIV to find a barely different game and the people who didn't like XI won't like this so what would have been the point in making this in the first place if it doesn't pull in new people?.
I really do think that after the next update the community should look to other sources beside XI when thinking about what would make this game great.
My 2 gils worths
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06-12-2011, 01:23 PMSasanctusMy 2 gils worths
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06-12-2011, 01:32 PMChardrizard
other sources like maybe.. WoW?
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06-12-2011, 01:33 PMOscillate_Wildly
Just because there are aspects of XI that they'd gotten right, wouldn't make this game XI-2 if they implemented them. I don't understand that logic. It's not the same storyline, not even close to the same content, but the difficulty and the meaning behind rewards were what made them good.
Sure they were frustrating, but at the time I'm sure they felt like they were worth it. If you really dig beneath the sentiments of those asking for things from XI I'm sure they'd all relate back to that meaning.
Currently XIV, with how easy things are, even things that should feel like goal don't. With the boss battles we have, no pretty cut scene is going to make anyone feel genuinely proud they spent that amount of time on it. Especially when you know someone has already soloed it. If everything from here on out will be a similar let down then why continue to play. Not everyone who still latches on wants this game so easy even a toddler could handle it. -
06-12-2011, 01:56 PMDyne
Well, they tried it the ffxiv way and it didn't work, so the way I see it, lets go back to what works and improve some things about it. It's not that the ffxiv ideas were bad or people being resistant to change, it's the way it all worked out in the end that made it bland, boring, and just hard to actually enjoy. Don't get me wrong there are some things in ffxiv that I like: graphics, marketwards, and able to change jobs on the fly, but there are a lot of fundamental things that were just missing that if they stay the current way, they may as well kill the entire thing and shut the servers down. Frankly, I think releasing it in the US simultaneously with Japan was a big mistake, as Americans aren't really the patient bunch. If you are American and are offended by that statement, that's just your pride, ego-centrism, arrogance, and narcissism talking. FFXI had a ton of problems during release in Japan too, but thanks to that over a year delay to release to NA and EU to fix the major problems, it got a much better reception. The game is currently free, so just take a break and play something else and check back on the updates until it gets to your liking, no need to throw a fit, cut yourself, and run around town smashing windows over it.
The main reason ffxi wasn't as popular in the US is because they never really advertised it compared to all the WoW Mr. T commercials. It was also a very hard game that forced you to socialize or you'll get nothing done. It was that forced socialization that formed that tight knit community of gamers who are, lets face it, fallen in love with the game because it truly rewarded you for you and your friends' hard work like an epic story full of struggles. That is the main reason people want to bring back ffxi ideas to ffxiv, to relive that adventure once again. -
06-12-2011, 02:08 PMSasanctusLike any game wouldn't need to be a mmo to provide good inspiration and I've personaly never played WoW I did flirt with EVE for a bit and played around with a few free mmo's. But Things like White knights chronicals or monster hunter etc might also provide a jolt of insperation who knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chardrizard
Oscillate_Wildly I agree with you to a point but there are people on here who would like so much of XI transfered over it would feels the same regardless of different lore or plot. Say you transfer the combat system to this it would feel like the same game just with new animation but if there where to be a good chunk of new tatics added to that could make alot of difference. Just sticking with everquests park your bums in this safe spot and pull doesn't make for the most interesting and engaging play i'm not saying its wrong just that its old and needs spicing up. But you are correct the lack challenge in this a big problem, what i'm saying with this post is we don't have to draw only from XI to put the challenge back in. -
06-12-2011, 02:10 PMzaviermhigo
Same company made the game, they are comparable, but it is true two different dev teams worked on them (in some regards), unlike some companies like blizzard which might keep a core dev team to work on mmos. My only thing is Xiv should of had the same basic features as XI and then some, when it comes to partying, and the ui and such. Other than that I dont care to compare them.
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06-12-2011, 02:24 PMGath
There's nothing wrong with what made FFXI good and implementing it into XIV, they can put their own twist to it. Just because there are similar features does not mean it is FFXI-2.
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06-12-2011, 02:51 PMXatsh
If anything they need to take from FFXI it is the endgame/midgame structure that game offered more endgame types then any other mmo out there. And the endgame was valid throughout the games life, I consider abysea to be the end of ffxi. ffxi-2 vision of abysea sorta sucked because it removed everything that made ffxi a step above other mmos in the area of endgame.
The old ffxi had
3hr raids (dynamis)
100 min raids (salvage)
50min raids (Limbus)
30min raid (Assualts, Einherjar)
instanced bosses level 20-30-40-50-75 around 100 of those.
World Spawns (10 of them (less then 5% of the game)... yet for some reason this is what people dwell on... the drops even dropped from instances as well),
2 large end game areas (sea and sky)
server wide defense battles in Whitegate and campaign in WoTG,
large group battles in Walk of echos
Countless lesser nms (over 200)
dozens of forced poped NMs
Nms that spawn from another dimension when you have a key item,
Defense battles at all the outpost
Player Created Dungeons... sorta (MMM)
As well as dozens of smaller side events
Honestly it was almost impossible for everyone to do 1 go around in all those areas in a months time. This is what kept ffxi strong and alive for almost a decade.
Pretty much an event for ever playstyle honestly... the thing was you just needed a party for all of it besides campaign and besiged. -
06-12-2011, 03:27 PMMack
If XI is the only MMO I've ever played am I allowed to look to XI for ideas? since FFXI is SE's game its only natural for people to compare the two and since FFXIV has had it rough so far its obvious that XI did things better in some cases (for example, the world design) so its natural people would be comparing.
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06-12-2011, 05:08 PMviion
only 2 gil worth! you cheap!
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06-12-2011, 07:52 PMRadaghast
Didn't it take them 2 years to release the first Dynamis?
Going to be awhile... -
06-12-2011, 09:54 PMKailea_Nagisa
I would love for SE to find a good median, I mean take all the good stuff from FFXI, change the names put it in FFXIV, and take all the stuff from FFXIV that is good, and mix it in a bowl. Bake it at 350 for am hour then........ok now i am hungry....
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06-12-2011, 11:12 PMJennestiaFunny enough if it makes XIV FFXI-2 that means:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gath
FFII = FF1-2
FFIII = FF2-2
FFIV = FFIII-2
FFV = FFIII-3
FFVI = FFIV-2
FFVII = FFVI-2
and so on. FF games usually takes what works from previous games and build off of it. XIV shared the same team XI did (WoTG completion rate proves this.) but they didn't want to make the game too similar to XI, even basic wise.
It came with the Zilart expansion pack (an update shortly after, in 2004), which was give or take 1 1/2 year after release then they released CoP Dynamis with that expansion pack in late 2004.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radaghast
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06-12-2011, 11:56 PMvaxSorry but spamming 111111111oneoneoneone is not more tactical ...Quote:
The way I see it they were trying to get a more engaging battle system in this, one that you couldn't semi-afk fight and would have to be more tactical.
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06-13-2011, 12:01 AMWynnIt really depends because some people want to see this element or that mechanic, which is fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennestia
Then there are those that literally want to turn XIV into an XI reskin since they know their game cannot improve anymore due to ps2 limations, which is not fine. -
06-13-2011, 02:37 AMnormalforceThis is just idle curiosity on my part, but for those of you who played FFXIII, would you say that battle system had a good tactical element to it, or was it just spam, spam, spam attack? Reading through this thread, the idea of a FFXIV with FFXIII battle system popped into my head and I was curious if something like that could work in an MMO?Quote:
Originally Posted by vax
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06-13-2011, 03:15 AMTrocienPeople thought FFXIV would be similar to FFXI is because Tanaka thought it'd be a good idea to use nearly identical races. He stated that the Dev team's #1 priority is to please FFXI players, and stated that FFXI players would want to recreate their old characters in FFXIV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasanctus
And now he is fired. -
06-13-2011, 03:25 AMMackIndeed, if anything the new battle system should be more tactical and will be, I'm really looking forward to it + the AF gear they showed earlier, those should be awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by vax
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06-13-2011, 03:26 AMMackYes, no kidding, what was he thinking? when he strayed so far off path from FFXI in every aspect as if he tried to do just that, and at the same time wanted to please XI fans the most...I think he must have pee'd off XI fans the most.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trocien
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06-13-2011, 03:59 AMvaxWhat do you mean? Changing classes in middle of the fight or select 4-5 abilities and then the char will do it?Quote:
Originally Posted by normalforce
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06-13-2011, 04:18 AMSpitfire
The only thing that kills this game for me is the lack of content. The battle system is (well was since they are redoing it) was kind of neat, it has some issues that needed to get worked out but battling stuff can be fun. They just made this hollow game with absolutely nothing to do it. Heck I feel that a company of SE standards something like this is totally inexcusable, I mean it just breaks my heart that they could allow something like this to happen...
I've said it a few times and I'll say it again I think the CEO needs to step down and let someone else with creative vision lead this company because his tenure has seen the complete destruction of the FF series. I mean read the guys wiki page, I don't know if any of it is true but I do know that he should be somewhere counting beans not running SE. Oh and to add he is selling out his own employees and blaming everything on someone else, now that is something that is killing the soul and morale at SE. -
06-13-2011, 04:47 AMJennestiaTanaka is still very much at Square Enix and very much on both XI and XIV (consultant) teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trocien
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06-13-2011, 11:29 AMnormalforceBasically, yeah. Buff up, change class, debuff enemy, change class, deal damage, change again, heal then switch back to pounding away at the enemy. Unless I'm missing something, it would work out quite well.Quote:
Originally Posted by vax
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06-13-2011, 11:51 AMAverix
I think any type of constructive criticism should and would be welcomed, no matter the inspiration. Whether they come from WoW, FFXI, Aion, EQ etc. They are good examples of what does and does not work in this genre. Will everyone agree on which functions those are? Of course not. But, you do have to look at what the majority enjoyed since you need the basic playerbase to support the game, and the large playerbase to make FFXIV money.
Personally, I think if this game has any hope at all of making a comeback then SE needs to start working and catering towards the console version (Don't lynch me!). Like it or not, those are the players that haven't had a "first impression" yet, and certainly not a bad one to make them jaded towards future improvements and/or changes. This will be the main revenue stream for the game to improve even further by investing more time and money. This is what will support the game for the two years it takes most of the jaded and angry PC populace that bought this game to read new reviews and give it a second chance.
Obviously this is just my opinion, but I believe that is where they stand the best chance to not only make a comeback but to make the game truly great. I cringe at the idea of waiting two more years for a decent version of the game but I like it a whole lot better than just watching it shut-down. -
06-13-2011, 12:25 PMkaboroYou suffer from the same syndrome eq and swg(pre nge) players suffered. Playing games that are excessively tedious and difficult so once you put up with the misery and time sink you get bragging rights, you feel special. Most people realise this is not good, others dont and keep on going about how easy that is, should be a lot harder, bla bla.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oscillate_Wildly
Games should be played because they are fun to play, not because they make you feel oh so special for putting up with more misery than the average player is willing to put up with. -
06-13-2011, 01:21 PMMugiwarathey are trying easy, casual, and less "time sinky"... how do you think thats turning out?...Quote:
Originally Posted by kaboro
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06-13-2011, 01:38 PMDyneEver read a story or watched a movie that was good where the main character did not struggle to get something done at all? Then maybe Clash of the Titans is the greatest movie of all time for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaboro
Isn't the main idea of videogames since Pong about increasing difficulty as you level up. Here's an idea for a game you might like: Do you want to finish this level? Press Yes. Congratulations you have beaten the game! -
06-13-2011, 02:12 PMkaboroHow easy is too easy, how hard is too hard? Where do you draw the line?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dyne
How hard you can make a game before its not fun anymore for the majority of players?
How easy can you make it before it gets boring?
Its all about balance i think.
I dont come from wow, i come from Vanguard and Ryzom, two hardcore games, not easy to get into.
I dont like it easy, but i dont like it hard for the sake of being hard.
The typical retarded cliche of most mmos: lets group and whack everything...done.
A really good mmo offers complex and deep solo gameplay as well as exciting group play. The only game that delivered was Vanguard, played it for years. Now i got in the mood for a good ol' console game and ffxiv seemed like a good idea, its not better but least its different. -
06-13-2011, 02:36 PMTrocienAnd you know this, how?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennestia
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06-13-2011, 03:45 PMJennestiaConsidering shortly after he stepped down to Yoshida he along with most others at SE stated being back on the XI project (not to mention the latest pictures of XI dev work), I'm pretty sure if he was fired most everyone would know -- it seems the western world takes "stepping down" as being fired.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trocien
He has no major role in XIV but it's still very much his project so they do have contact with him to know what's what, pretty much all a consultant does. So sorry to burst the "Tanaka got fired" bubble lol. -
06-13-2011, 04:20 PMTirem778
I just hope one day that we get all the content that the original team promised as well. (With revamps by the new team to fit them into what they turn this game into.) I'm very intrigued by it. It seemed as if they had a lot of good ideas, just not enough time, and a few skewed ideas (no AH type system, etc).