Scholars are taking over the world.

I'm serious, everyone's a Scholar now! D:

Every time I que for CT, there's at least 4 SCHs. What happened to all the White Mages? We need you guys! D:

I may end up switching back to WHM, dual SCH parties are painful. Also loving the Cure III buff.

I LOVE the WHM/SCH combo but a SCH Eos/SCH Selene combo is really nice too...
Still prefer to be paired with a WHM though
and maybe it's a server thing, I still see more WHM than SCH on mine

I can't stand going into CT and seeing Alliance A: WHM/SCH Alliance B: WHM/WHM and Alliance C: SCH/SCH.

Really SE?

And I agree... go away SCH band wagoners. Go back to WHM!

In the last 20 or so pvp match we've had, 2 of those had whm, rest was SCH, it's unfortunate but they're just that better.

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Originally Posted by JonFarron

I'm serious, everyone's a Scholar now! D:

Every time I que for CT, there's at least 4 SCHs. What happened to all the White Mages? We need you guys! D:

I may end up switching back to WHM, dual SCH parties are painful. Also loving the Cure III buff.

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Well, there are a lot of people crying over the nerf to Medica... >.> Might just be that people are in the mood for a change with regard to their healing class. I play both, but main a WHM.

SCH/SCH in CT is a death sentence~

Huh. Weird. I've only had one scholar in my last five runs of anything that wasn't a static.

Probably a large influx of White mages getting SCHs as their alts. It'll probably normalize once people decide on which one they want to main.

SCH got a 5% buff to 1 skill, and all of a sudden they are completely op?

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Originally Posted by Squa

SCH got a 5% buff to 1 skill, and all of a sudden they are completely op?

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Or they're just upset that their Medica 2 regen and Holy do less, even though they're still the best AoE healers and still do pretty high damage for AoE (not to mention the stun).

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Originally Posted by Espon

Or they're just upset that their Medica 2 regen and Holy do less, even though they're still the best AoE healers and still do pretty high damage for AoE (not to mention the stun).

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Both skills which cost a lot of MP to use for a class that have very little ways to regenerate MP in general. Yes, thats kind of a big deal. :P SCH's AOE heals arent bad if you know how to manage your fairy and you never have MP issues.

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Originally Posted by TsuchiGnomey

Both skills which cost a lot of MP to use for a class that have very little ways to regenerate MP in general. Yes, thats kind of a big deal. :P SCH's AOE heals arent bad if you know how to manage your fairy and you never have MP issues.

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succor kinda sucks, dude. even succor + WD isn't anything special. WHM are by far the better aoe healers -- it's just that one of the problems right now is that much of the real endgame content lacks heavy aoe damage, so WHM don't seem as immediately necessary. titan HM doesn't count, and much of coil is single-target healing unless you're hitting the enrage on T4. if new turns come in 2.2 and content is introduced which necessitates heavy AOE healing, WHM will again be in the spotlight.

*edit* before i get jumped on i don't REALLY mean that succor "sucks." i'm a scholar. i love it for obvious reasons. i'm just saying when you need to get EVERYONE back up from low hp, that's a job for WHM. i can do it, but not nearly as quickly or efficiently.

Being only better in AoE healing isnt really a good reason to run WHM over SCH, as leveling up and most dungeons you dont need intense aoe healing. And honestly in situations that you would need it, the MP issue of WHM still is a concern. While when I use SCH microing rouse+WD+Succor works well.

I think more people would be inclined to play WHM if it wasn't for their damned MP issues that can cripple the class in either high-healing fights, or long-lasting fights. I can understand that SE wants WHM to be AoE healers...but why is their AoE healing punished by such high MP costs?

Right now SCH is the more "efficient" job to play since 90% of all game heals go to the tank (which SCH excels at), are more independent with MP management (WHM has to rely on BRDs to save their asses), and have lower enmity generation since heals are split between pet and player. This is most likely the reason why people are slowly changing over to SCH. WHM, as it is now, has its perks as a job...but is the grand scheme of the game isn't really necessary.

Yeah, let's just fix WHM mana issue and have them spam aoe as soon as the fight starts. The game doesn't work that way. WHM excels in AOE heal thus by limiting their mana regen, ensures they cannot spam it. SCH in the other hand excels in Single target heal, we basically have to stay healing single target if we want to enjoy having no mana issue. Try having a SCH spamming AOE heal and you will find him OOM in a few sec as well and our AOE heal isn't even amazing. So IMO, it pretty much is a balance. Stop whining, learn2play :P

Besides, we gotta let WHM have mana issue to give a reason for BRD to exist in any group, isn't it?

How many good SCH's are there though....Majority of the SCH I see when I am as another class are terrible. SCH and Monk are the hardest classes to play correctly and efficiently, and the good ones really stand above the bad ones....

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Originally Posted by Marcusow86

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I think you are the one who needs to learn2play bro. First off, no one is attacking anyone, so your sarcasm isn't warranted. Secondly, the limit on "heal spam" is set by enmity generation...NOT MP regen. Don't believe me, spam some AoEs as the tank is pulling and count how long it takes him/her to gain control of the mob(s) (if at all).

The downside here is that WHM can run into mana issues even when staying with single target healing, while SCH has a free pass on that. WHM heal spells, regardless of them being single-target or AoE, are way too mana costly, and that's the problem. The other problem is WHM traits being lackluster and as situation-oriented as their skills are. WHM should either be fighting enmity as a limit check, or MP as a limit check, but NOT both (since the other caster classes are only limited by 1 of these).

There are some incredibly easy fixes for WHM.
- Scale SoS regen rate based on stat or level
- Change Freecure proc to higher % chance
- Change Overcure proc to last X seconds and cut enmity generation for each healing spell in half while in duration (it's useless in its current state anyway since Cure III is still very situational)

Even just 1 of these would make WHM much more viable in end-game.

rolled SCH on day one and never regretted it. They are fantastic healers, though the fairy can bug out and can cause many headaches when you actually try to order them around. I'm slowly leveling a WHM and can't say for certain whether I like them or not, but after healing endgame for a while now as a SCH, I do at times feel sorry for the WHM healer when they're battling MP issues and balancing threat. Meanwhile, I'm sitting tight on 80% MP and my biggest worry is whether my fairy has bugged out again or not.

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Originally Posted by Krisstina

SCH/SCH in CT is a death sentence~

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lol funny but wrong on every level ;P had a SCH SCH alliance three times now and everytime we were the only alliance able to pull our weight and keep our tanks up! we each focused a tank and shared party heals it was a breeze!

im sorry but there is no better tank healer than a SCH especially on CT since it make you split your party up a lot anyway if everyone does their job on CT I could easily see it ran without any WHM's at all no offense.

Dont u ppl agree that when it comes to endgame content, like coil, the Whm/sch combo is the best solution?
I think healer roles are the only thing that are close to balanced.

Other than that, its kinda Nice u can roll the healer/playstyle u like the most, and still bring alot to the tabel and be wanted.

Main problem imo is that too many ppl just want to have the best job. Pld's just laughed at war (uptil now), take 10 min on dps forums and u gonna see where WW3 is gonna start.

All healers should just work toward making Whm/sch combo even more sexy :)

Scholar was the first job I did and it will always be my main. I have always loved it. Really, though, I hate that so many people always feel the need to play what they think is "better". They should just play what they enjoy the most. SCH and WHM are so different that it really has to come down to your personal tastes. I also will be keeping Bard as my secondary class, I don't care if it's been nerfed.

I'd hate to see people actively dislike me joining a party because they are "sick" of seeing Scholars. :(

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Originally Posted by jumpypuppet

succor kinda sucks, dude. even succor + WD isn't anything special.

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Some math for you!

WD by itself is ~1400/1600ish per target over 21 seconds on a 1 minute cooldown, however! Rouse is also on a 1 minute cool down and pushes WD up to ~2100/2500 per target with my gear, MP free on a 60 second cooldown with a single global cooldown.

To match that a whitemage would need to cast 3 medicas taking ~8 seconds to cast and costing 1116 mp.

In terms of HP per second, over 0 to 20 seconds of AE healing it's actually neck and neck. If the Sch precasts succor and gets use out of that first galvanize then it's pretty much even, if they don't then the whm pulls ahead. If the damage is delivered over multiple hits allowing the sch to get more use out of succor then the whm gets left behind.

So actually no, I disagree with your point about the disparity between whm and sch for AoE healing. Whomever comes out ontop really depends on the situation. Frequent big AE hits favour whm, lots of smaller hits or big bursts of AE spaced out over a minute or more plays to a sch more.

In closing, if you are struggling with AE as sch I can only suggest that you take a tighter rein on your fairies!

WHM for life here, never will pick up SCH either I love my Red and Whites :) it was so nice to see a pro WHM thread from a SCH. It made my Monday, thank you. Back at you btw I <3 my SCH partner in crime!

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Frequent big AE hits favour whm, lots of smaller hits or big bursts of AE spaced out over a minute or more plays to a sch more.

In closing, if you are struggling with AE as sch I can only suggest that you take a tighter rein on your fairies!

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thanks for the...advice... but i'm not "struggling" with anything. not sure how much more tightly i can hold the reins considering that i manually cast every single fairy skill.

and re: "who comes out on top" you just reiterated what i said. obviously given ample time to prep for a big hit, recover and then prep again, succor's shield shines. but if you looked at the examples i cited (tumults, T4 enrage) they are clearly instances of "frequent big AE hits," of which there aren't many, which is why SCH can look better by comparison. if and when mechanics like those become more prevalent in the endgame, WHMs will be sought after to fill that niche because if you're constantly getting hit with pulses succor isn't going to cut it for long, at least by comparison (not even considering that WD has a decent cooldown). that's what i was saying.

but w/e, keep nitpicking

I like whm... but having unlimited mps on the scholar and free fairy heals and buffs is just too nice.

Yeah, whms have larger AE heals... but I presuccor and I can still cast 3 succors in a row and hit Aetherflow and I'm good to go. I can bounce back- plus rouse. Whms? You get low on mp and you are sunk. You might have one burst or possibly two and you're on fumes.

The whm is not the versatile class it was touted to be. It's fun and definitely has perks. I like playing it... but being able to almost ignore mps is priceless.

Please note that we are unlikely to see any more end game content till 2.2 in ~3-4 months time

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Originally Posted by jumpypuppet

WHM are by far the better aoe healers

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Nitpicking is perhaps a little unfair, I just disagree with the above statement of yours and feel that it is rather misguided. Really nitpicking would be pointing out that Tumults actually play to a sch's strengths, they are infrequent, predictable and of course each stomp is broken down into multiple evenly timed tumults allowing the sch the opportunity to plan ahead and really capitalise on succor. A whm can of course DS and brute force through it with medica to equal the sch but with 2.1 medica II's rather reduced HP/s it's actually pretty even now (which was likely the desired result of the change if you ask me).

T4 enrage playing to whm is more down to sch not having an equivalent to Cure III (which is fine since a sch is more suited to solo healing the tank through a likely fed dreadnought for a short period, yay for synergy!). Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not of the 'oh em gee sch are op!' stance. Quite the opposite, I think that the two jobs are rather nicely balanced and have incredible synergy with each other. Yes they both have caveats and of course there are situations where both jobs truly shine over each other, but overall it works out quite even in most situations. AoE healing included!

I main WHM...and I am NOT changing it simply due to 'adjustments'. But what I've noticed sitting in the 'WHM Seat' is this:
1. Party members in general are way to spread out for our heals to be effective. Especially when in a WHM/WHM group, you all need to stack more when you can (safely).
2. Cure III useage sucks...because gaining a proc for a group heal off a single target heal is just...well silly logic. The should adjust it somehow that Cure III either procs on itself and/or lower Cure III's cost a smidge and make Cure II give a spell speed/crit heal proc for a limited time across the board (sch gets a similar spell speed proc from a crit)
3. Holy is fine nothing to see here...people are STILL complaining it's too powerful, but they need to look at the risk/reward, the fact the spell has very limited usage, and the fact that it is a MP blowing monster. Basically...suck it up, let us have this one thing.
4. I miss Thunder. I miss it way more on WHM than on SMN. It was a nice DoT filler spell when i was just doing light cures
5. The virus nerf...man that sucks. Both from now basically never being able to cast it in a SCH/WHM party...but also for the amount of heals I have to do to compensate for now that only 1 virus can be cast every Min.
6. I miss Rain of Death too (again not my ability but man do I miss it).

Oh and when for the love of the 12 is the whole 'cure dropping' thing gonna be fixed. You can have the tank targeted for a good 2-3 seconds go to cast on them and STILL have the cure land on yourself instead of them...you made our windows of opportunities smaller, and our MP pool feel smaller, but you didn't fix this...kinda sucks when i have to chain cure 1-2 times just to get it to land on the tank once...if you fix nothing else, fix this.

All this adds up to making WHM feel much more difficult this patch than last patch. It might be more balanced, but it still feels more 'by the seat of your pants' than pre patch. Grant it: Party members adjusting their placement, and better party synergy in general and this eases up. (Basically, WHM's been 'gimped' enough that we can't nearly as easily over-compensate for other party members blunders now).

Oh...and SE I don't know what you were thinking with WHM in PvP...but seriously....last I checked, WHM is not a kite-tank.

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Some math for you! (summary: Scholars have similar AE healing to WHM's)

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It's similar in the same way that Benediction is similar to Lustrate, but not quite as nice. The WHM's AE healing is much more flexible, not being tied to a 1-minute cool-down and having your pet be alive. I personally think the game was designed to give WHM's an edge in AE healing, and Scholars get an edge in single-target healing. Of course, both jobs can heal either way, just one has some slight advantages.

Personally I think Cure III is our answer to Lustrate, benediction is just there so that we have an emergency button for if all else fails (hence the relatively long cd). The problem is that cure III rarely gets a chance to shine outside of properly organised static teams because lets face it, getting a typical party to stack properly can feel like herding cats! Lustrate on the other hand isn't dependant on other people so it always feels useful.

To those bashing Cure III's viability, hold your horses until you've got ifrit extreme down. I learnt to love it in the process of learning that trial.

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Originally Posted by Karyou

Scholar was the first job I did and it will always be my main. I have always loved it. Really, though, I hate that so many people always feel the need to play what they think is "better". They should just play what they enjoy the most. SCH and WHM are so different that it really has to come down to your personal tastes. I also will be keeping Bard as my secondary class, I don't care if it's been nerfed.

I'd hate to see people actively dislike me joining a party because they are "sick" of seeing Scholars. :(

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Too many people get too caught up these days, they forget this is only a game. I know. I'd personally rather pick a class that I enjoy rather than advancing on something which may be more effective, but actually I think is quite boring. Every player is different. I guess I have no right to say this since you're all mostly WHM or SCH. I think both are good in their own ways, and this is coming from a PUG.
As you say, it all comes down to personal tastes.

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Originally Posted by shadowrell_d-_-b

lol funny but wrong on every level ;P had a SCH SCH alliance three times now and everytime we were the only alliance able to pull our weight and keep our tanks up! we each focused a tank and shared party heals it was a breeze!

im sorry but there is no better tank healer than a SCH especially on CT since it make you split your party up a lot anyway if everyone does their job on CT I could easily see it ran without any WHM's at all no offense.

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Compare to crap play doesnt mean ur good at it~u dont need super tank healer in CT, 2 regen on tank can already cover most of the healing...
The tricky part is getting those noob heal up and finish the run.

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Originally Posted by shadowrell_d-_-b

im sorry but there is no better tank healer than a SCH especially on CT since it make you split your party up a lot anyway if everyone does their job on CT I could easily see it ran without any WHM's at all no offense.

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People are arguing over what healer is better for Crystal Tower? It's Crystal Tower, you should barely be out of Cleric Stance for much of it.

I don't know if anyone has said this yet but if our next pet is something really cool I.e. anything other than a fairy. A Tonberry would be cool since they're pretty much linked to our job quests anyway, but yeah if our next pet is anything remotely cool and useful then I'm pretty sure they wont be any whm left =/

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Originally Posted by Krisstina

SCH/SCH in CT is a death sentence~

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Did it
Absolutely 0 problem

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Personally I think Cure III is our answer to Lustrate, benediction is just there so that we have an emergency button for if all else fails (hence the relatively long cd). The problem is that cure III rarely gets a chance to shine outside of properly organised static teams because lets face it, getting a typical party to stack properly can feel like herding cats! Lustrate on the other hand isn't dependant on other people so it always feels useful.

To those bashing Cure III's viability, hold your horses until you've got ifrit extreme down. I learnt to love it in the process of learning that trial.

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You don't need to use it to beat Ifrit ex. Medica ,Medica 2, regen and cure/cure2 spam is enough for Ifrit extreme.

I have been using Cure 3 alot more since patch(partly due to me liking big numbers >_>). But double medica would of been good for most of those situations for less work but more mana cost(like 200 extra?)If cure 3 misses its target then you have to blow more mana on them anyway.

Cure 3 wont hit the tank or flanking melee in most situations if you are using it to raid heal dps behind tank. In my opnion 200ish extra mp to heal tanks,melee and other healer(ifrit ex) for 1600hp is totally worth it.

Cure 3 still quite situational after patch . Only time its truly optimal to use it to heal after titan ex jump because you will hit the tank as well. Range is still too small. If you get a proc during Twintania fireball phase its decent then too. (Though old medica 2 was way better, for it guaranteeing 100% hp unlike cure 3)

SCH/SCH is not good as WHM/SCH. But it is not bad.

Eos+Selene combo is great.
Eos+Eos stacks whispering dawn.
6 lustrate in one minute.
or 4 sacred soil in one minute.
non stop eye4eye and virus (after immunity of course)
Nearly infinite MP to spam AOE heal through entire fight.

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Originally Posted by Ignaz

SCH/SCH is not good as WHM/SCH. But it is not bad.

Eos+Selene combo is great.
Eos+Eos stacks whispering dawn.
6 lustrate in one minute.
or 4 sacred soil in one minute.
non stop eye4eye and virus (after immunity of course)
Nearly infinite MP to spam AOE heal through entire fight.

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Double sch laughs at twintania infirmary debuff.

All fights are doable with any healer combination. some combos have less room for error then others.

Cure 3 really shines on the 3rd nail wave for Ifrit ex imo. I keep medica II ticking for most of the fight since I'm generally not MP or enmity limited, but get the DPS team stacked up tightly as they move around and I can keep them topped up for each nail without having to worry about getting them blown up with the Inferno Howl debuff, and yes, I've been trying my utmost to get more use out of it. As you mention, titan EX jumps are perfect since the arena is so small. My team makes me keep medica II going to ensure we know where the egis are going though :(

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

Cure 3 really shines on the 3rd nail wave for Ifrit ex imo. I keep medica II ticking for most of the fight since I'm generally not MP or enmity limited, but get the DPS team stacked up tightly as they move around and I can keep them topped up for each nail without having to worry about getting them blown up with the Inferno Howl debuff, and yes, I've been trying my utmost to get more use out of it. As you mention, titan EX jumps are perfect since the arena is so small. My team makes me keep medica II going to ensure we know where the egis are going though :(

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Cure 3 has a few weakeness for 3rd nail phase

It wont heal the other healer, It wont heal the tank or offtank(since we keep offtank on ifrit for easier switch) It may miss some dds such as melee or dd tethered to offtank.

Now if all the dds keep stacked during that part. It will work well. But its a hectic part of the fight many dds forget to stack and they have to move out of eruption. I would rather make it easier for them and make it harder for myself.

The hps required for that part of the fight isnt even that much. Once the big nail is down, cure and regen spam is enough(with the support of other healer)

Cure 3 still suffering a bit from lightwell syndrome. It requires too much from the entire pt. May even cause loss of dps for melee,smn and blackmage.

That whole final nail phase is a bit messy. I'll keep Medica II on pretty much full time during it but when I have howl all I can really do is Cure III or single target. Will try next time just trying to keep regen on all the dps as that sounds like it might help more.

We cleared it last night after a few howl related deaths but I'll say that Ifrit definitely feels the hardest of the 3 for healers, even if it isn't for other jobs.