Nerf SMN

Summoner has far too much viability as a single class. Bard was supposedly nerfed as it has "too many pieces of the puzzle" for PvE; well, this is much the same for PvP. A powerful healing debuff (and snare), high burst damage, high DoT and an annoying pet are all a bit much. Add a battle raise on top of this and it's a nightmare.

They don't need nerfing. They're perfectly managable if you're healer knows how to cleanse, or you can use Purify. Somersault, and Axe Kick are also good, but Somersault really fucks up their day.
Since you're a GLD/PLD, I have no idea what you can do against them. I'll have to ask my PLD what she does against them.

Oh, I don't play PLD in PvP :p healers often don't get time to cleanse with everything else that is going on, and with cleanse GCD being the same (even if cast time is lower), at best you stall one SMN. Let alone two or more... no aoe cleanse really sucks too.

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Originally Posted by Raenryong

Oh, I don't play PLD in PvP :p healers often don't get time to cleanse with everything else that is going on, and with cleanse GCD being the same (even if cast time is lower), at best you stall one SMN. Let alone two or more... no aoe cleanse really sucks too.

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I really haven't had any issues with SMN lately. D: Let alone two of them, or when people run double BLM, what do you play for PVP and what comp do you use? Maybe I can help you.

I solo queue 99% of the time, normally on WHM. Occasionally on DRG.

Summoner needs to lose Raise inside PVP and they will be fine. I have no idea how to balance disease, it's a game breaking debuff that is required but also too powerful at the same time. Without it healing is too easy, with it healing is straight up impossible outside of benediction and lustrate.

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Originally Posted by Raenryong

I solo queue 99% of the time, normally on WHM. Occasionally on DRG.

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ooooooooooooooooooooooh. D: Well, issue one is solo queue! If you were on Gilgamesh I'd roll with you.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Summoner needs to lose Raise inside PVP and they will be fine. I have no idea how to balance disease, it's a game breaking debuff that is required but also too powerful at the same time. Without it healing is too easy, with it healing is straight up impossible outside of benediction and lustrate.

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WAR has a heal debuff too. I just don't like the fact that all the dots block cleanses meaning you usually need 2+ successful casts to remove it and that it gives weight. Also rez on a nonhealer is kinda BS but rez in pvp is dumb in general.

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Originally Posted by Zetonegi

WAR has a heal debuff too. I just don't like the fact that all the dots block cleanses meaning you usually need 2+ successful casts to remove it and that it gives weight. Also rez on a nonhealer is kinda BS but rez in pvp is dumb in general.

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WAR's heal debuff is melee range and doesn't slow, also I think it stacks with disease for -75%. The double debuff is super annoying though I agree, I have to pray to the RNG gods I dispel it.

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Originally Posted by Shiyo

Summoner needs to lose Raise inside PVP and they will be fine. I have no idea how to balance disease, it's a game breaking debuff that is required but also too powerful at the same time. Without it healing is too easy, with it healing is straight up impossible outside of benediction and lustrate.

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Make the healing debuff 25% instead of 50%.

Reduce healing debuff and don't have it stack with Warrior one (nor vice versa).

Why does a dps class get to have a res? How is that perfectly manageable/balanced?

Whm is too underpowered. After you run and use up your swift cast and instant buffs, whm is dead. Sch gets pet and the sch itself able to cure. With casting always getting interrupted, it's nearly impossible to live long as a whm. Once a group of players decides to focus whm it's stun and range hits and battle is over in seconds.

SMN is ridiculous, there is nothing they can't do lol.

Absolutely, XIV PVP is unbalanced and we knew it long before the patch. But SMN is really ridiculous.

Want to win 90% of the match?

2xSMN + SCH + WAR

BLM, SCH, SMN is worse - you've literally no path to take.

Focus BLM - SMN just rapes your day, and GL healing through SCH anyway.
Focus SCH - Yeah, that isn't gonna work. DoTs, Slows, Binds, Sleep.
Focus SMN - You won't damage through it, also sleeps.

Even if you manage to drop one with brilliant CC co-ordination on their team, just watch as they are insta-rez'd then brought right back to full HP with shields from the SCH.
Just stupid man.

Don't focus. Pressure all 3 at the same time. Focusing on one target isnt the only PVP strategy.

I wish people would stop making these threads. Our class was already nerfed recently and I would hate to see it nerfed again because some people don't understand how to play against a summoner.


- Miasma and heavy can be cleansed / purified.
- Scholar's can heal through the disease easily with the 6 lustrates they get at the start of every round (3 + 3 on the new aetherflow recharge)
- A whm's cure II + regen still keeps people alive even through the disease until they get locked down (at which point the disease doesn't even matter)
- You have to be extremely close range (~5 yalms or less) to even connect miasma II, which CAN be LoS'd around corners, pillars, and walls.
- A blm has lethargy (instant) AND a swiftcast aoe sleep, AND a wide AoE freeze that can block a targets path.
- A PLD can chainstun people all day, once they get a 6 second stun on the first guy they can switch targets and get full duration on another.
- A monk can lockdown any caster (including summoner) easily if he uses his skills correctly and times the bonuses of each stance. However, this requires the monk to be good.
- A dragoon can jump, throw weapon (removes sprint), elusive jump out of the heavy, purify, use that fetters skill, and do a ton of damage in a single rotation.
- A warrior can holmgang/stun and guarantee the disease in one melee combo, while moving and being attacked. A smn can only swiftcast miasma once every minute. Getting hit by a 2.5 sec cast that is easily LoS'd / interrupted is not the smn being broken, it's you not playing well. It's like getting hit by fire and then an instant fire III proc that both crit and then claiming BLM is overpowered.


*There are new pvp skills that hardly anyone has fully taken advantage of yet or tried.
*Pvp is new.
*There are tons of variables including the rest of the team / team strategy.
*People complaining about summoners tend to lose to them. Please don't complain something is broken just because it beats you.

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Originally Posted by PittThorn

Don't focus. Pressure all 3 at the same time. Focusing on one target isnt the only PVP strategy.

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Their tank says hi. I know people don't mention the tank in the lineup but hes still there and basically his only job is to peel for the casters. The SMN or BLM is now free to CC for the other one and then both of them are now free to do whatever they want. The SCHs gonna do whatever he wants because 1 person on a SCH? that one person actually loses, they won't do enough dmg to the sch.

Not so much does the SMN need a nerf, as the whole casting mechanics need a complete tune up.
The biggest and most important nerf right now would be the 30s sleep since it just doesn't make sense.

Ok, well, theoretically let's say the DPS in the team can apply some kind of pressure on each of their targets - the tank is not going to be able to apply any real pressure, outside of a 10 second stun lock, or a holmgang. Also, their tank periodically rotates through his stuns - keep in mind this is the while the SMN is applying heavy DMG with his own attks and the pet. SCH can just /lol at any damage one person can apply..
Until you've actually played this comp. from the other side, stfu.
We have tried the apply all pressure to all 3 - utility wins out in the end - other compositions only option is to go balls to the wall and try drop them, otherwise their utility trumps you overall.

I really think people should stop complaining about what a SMN can do in battle. They don't need to lose raise in combat since it is a BASE skill they get at a low level.... That would be like saying they also shouldn't have access to physick because they aren't on the SCH side.... Maybe SCH shouldn't have the ability to dot anyone either.... How is THAT fair... OH NO they can HEAL and DPS..... *Sarcasm off**

What it boils down to is that summoners are doing what their class is meant to do, just like any other class does... No need for a nerf.

When I PVP I am doing it so I can go head to head with other classes... I wouldn't want to be beating (or losing to) a class that is nerfed in PVP because it's not really a win at that point.

Lol did you know scholars can use miasma II as well? Also smn only has good burst if they can get 3 dots on you. Just make sure someone is on them making sure they can't stop to cast their dots. Dragoon is goood at that. I hate people who complain about a class and want it nerfed instead of just thinking about how to counter it.

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Originally Posted by Regis

Lol did you know scholars can use miasma II as well? Also smn only has good burst if they can get 3 dots on you. Just make sure someone is on them making sure they can't stop to cast their dots. Dragoon is goood at that. I hate people who complain about a class and want it nerfed instead of just thinking about how to counter it.

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you cant say they dont have any sort of advantage tho i hate people who defend there op class

Lol @ SMN defense. Your class will be nerfed. Carry on doe

Yes please, but it's more than SMN. SCH also needs a nerf. They're for more powerful in PvP than WHM.

Nerf DRG your burst is outrageous

As a SMN, if anyone allows me to get all three dots on them then they deserve to die lol. But if a team knows what they are doing that never happens. Also, raise isn't that effective if you kill a raised person as soon as they come back. I just wish my victory/ battle ratio knew I was supposed to be overpowered. >. <

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Originally Posted by KageSama

Why does a dps class get to have a res? How is that perfectly manageable/balanced?

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They "need" it because it's an Arcanist skill, at lv22. So both SCH and SMN have access to it. If they make it SCH only, then arcanist is not equivalent to conjurer in being able to raise.

Miasma is then instantly reapplied - not to mention that the gcd on cleansing is the same as the gcd on applying, so at best you pace the SMN (and actually lose since they apply 2 debuffs at once here)

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- Scholar's can heal through the disease easily with the 6 lustrates they get at the start of every round (3 + 3 on the new aetherflow recharge)

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And a WHM can ... ?

You can't keep someone up through pressure if they have a spammable instantcast heal debuff on them. Not to mention that it stacks with the Warrior one...

There is nothing difficult about running into close range for a GCD.

Warrior applies it to ONE PERSON at the end of a combo. SMN can apply it to many via Miasma2 or Bane Miasma at the start of a combo. Also if you're saying that everyone must ensure they are within <2s of LOS at all times or else instant-lose due to SMN, well...

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Originally Posted by xxalucard

I wish people would stop making these threads. Our class was already nerfed recently and I would hate to see it nerfed again because some people don't understand how to play against a summoner.


- Miasma and heavy can be cleansed / purified.
- Scholar's can heal through the disease easily with the 6 lustrates they get at the start of every round (3 + 3 on the new aetherflow recharge)
- A whm's cure II + regen still keeps people alive even through the disease until they get locked down (at which point the disease doesn't even matter)
- You have to be extremely close range (~5 yalms or less) to even connect miasma II, which CAN be LoS'd around corners, pillars, and walls.
- A blm has lethargy (instant) AND a swiftcast aoe sleep, AND a wide AoE freeze that can block a targets path.
- A PLD can chainstun people all day, once they get a 6 second stun on the first guy they can switch targets and get full duration on another.
- A monk can lockdown any caster (including summoner) easily if he uses his skills correctly and times the bonuses of each stance. However, this requires the monk to be good.
- A dragoon can jump, throw weapon (removes sprint), elusive jump out of the heavy, purify, use that fetters skill, and do a ton of damage in a single rotation.
- A warrior can holmgang/stun and guarantee the disease in one melee combo, while moving and being attacked. A smn can only swiftcast miasma once every minute. Getting hit by a 2.5 sec cast that is easily LoS'd / interrupted is not the smn being broken, it's you not playing well. It's like getting hit by fire and then an instant fire III proc that both crit and then claiming BLM is overpowered.


*There are new pvp skills that hardly anyone has fully taken advantage of yet or tried.
*Pvp is new.
*There are tons of variables including the rest of the team / team strategy.
*People complaining about summoners tend to lose to them. Please don't complain something is broken just because it beats you.

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This, also complaining about pets gets old. There is only 2 options for pets and that is ifrit and garuda. Both have there strengths and weaknesses. In pvp Garuda is kind of useless as she is a ranged DD, so she is easily LoS'd. Ifrit, needs to be melee range to even connect, but will follow around the wooden barriers etc, however it is basically just following you if you keep moving, insta casting spells etc. In the few rare times it might hit you because you stand still, you get hit with a 2 second stun with a decently large cooldown. So no, they dont need to be nerfed either.

Main Class
ARCANIST Lv 50

I would never have guessed.

SMN as a whole doesn't need nerfing back to the stone age, Miasma is just too strong. They could even leave it as it is and just make cleansing better (instant and/or lower gcd). AoE cleanse wouldn't be horrible either, and would give a nice edge to WHM which it sorely needs in PvE at least (granted AoE cleanse isn't really needed in PvE yet unless you mess up on Siren).

agreed remove the healing debuff component from smn dots that are part of smns normal rotation and place it on a spell with a longer cast that ONLY applies that debuff best way to do it and can only be applied to 1 target at a time

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Originally Posted by Raenryong

Main Class
ARCANIST Lv 50

I would never have guessed.

SMN as a whole doesn't need nerfing back to the stone age, Miasma is just too strong. They could even leave it as it is and just make cleansing better (instant and/or lower gcd). AoE cleanse wouldn't be horrible either, and would give a nice edge to WHM which it sorely needs in PvE at least (granted AoE cleanse isn't really needed in PvE yet unless you mess up on Siren).

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While were at it, nerf Sleep, nerf stuns, nerf silence, nerf mage song, oh nerf EOS, nerf healing in pvp too(its to powerfull), remove swiftcast and make surecast more viable. Lets change paladin shield bass too, Holmgang needs to be changed, so does Raise. Lets see, flare needs to be lowered, gladiatior defense skills need to be lowered too. I can go on as well.

Nerfing Miasma and Virus would simply make SMNR pointless in pvp. Thing's don;t need to be nerfed just because you can't seem to win from it.

If there is one thing that needs to be changed in pvp, its the way diminishing returns act and how sleep last the full 30 seconds in the first beginning.

Healing does need a debuff, but Miasma is far too easy to apply and too strong (especially as it applies a snare too), and stacking with the Warrior one is crazy. Surecast is very viable, wtf are you talking about?

Nerfing Miasma would not make SMN pointless in PvP - don't be ridiculous. Ifrit still has fantastic healer disruption utility and your burst is still very good, along with the annoying DoTs. Things need to be nerfed if you're unbalanced.

And yes, I agree. Sleep lasting for 30 seconds on the first cast is insane. 15 seconds would be more reasonable, and even that is semi high.

Burst? What burst? Don't tell me you think that the 780 damage from Fester is good burst damage, even if it crits for 1100+ with good gear, and only if you have Bio 2, Bio and Miasma up. It lowers drastically when you are missing 1 or more. Fester with just miasma is around 300 damage. Ruin does anywhere from 180-310 or so damage depending on crit. Ruin II does exactly the same damage. SMNR isn't a burst class, it never has been. It is a Dot class and when its dots are up, then yes it hurts. All dots are cleanseable. Miasma is without swift cast, not easy to apply, specially not if you have a team that knows what it is doing.

Instead of trying to sleep every target, you might want to tell your war/pal to get on the summoner and lock him down. Melee Interupts hurt SMNR's badly. Miasma II due to bind would be our only real defense against that. Yes it is spammable, however it is resisted on the third miasma II. The resist lasts pretty long. It's healing debuff is no way or shape to strong and can easily be cleansed with a good healer.

Surecast is hardly from viable imo, ive used it plenty and i still get interrupted with it, alot. (and no i don't move).


Fact is SMNR isn't overpowered, it is just the way people play against it. That and what I said earlier. The way Diminishing returns work in this games pvp, or rather doesn't work.


Though, I doubt you will listen to anything I say because after all "Main Class ARCANIST Lv 50 I would never have guessed" says more then enough about you. Yu do realize on these forums you can set that to whatever I wanted right? I can even set that to my lvl 30 warrior that I am currently leveling.

Fester is good burst damage combined with the dots, delivered from range. You are aware what I mean by burst, right? It doesn't have to oneshot to be good burst. High sustained damage with bursty peaks, a heal debuff, a battle res and a really annoying pet doesn't sound very good to you? Throw a Ruin2 at the same time as Fester for a lot of burst in one effective GCD.

Miasma is very easy to apply, idk what you're talking about. It's far easier to apply than it is to avoid it unless you're 1v1'ing the SMN.

So in order to fight a SMN, the tank has to let the enemy healer have free reign? Miasma 2 is a very effective counter too due to that snare.

You can still get stunned/interrupted with Surecast. You use it when you know they can't do that to you.

And the fact that SMN features in just about every dominant team strategy doesn't imply it's overpowered?

The only reason I bring up the fact that you are a SMN is that the only people saying it is fine are SMNs, which says a lot. I've dealt with so many blind people abusing overpowered stuff who will swear black and white that it's not overpowered over the years. Literally thousands.

You're just like them.

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Originally Posted by Raenryong

The only reason I bring up the fact that you are a SMN is that the only people saying it is fine are SMNs, which says a lot. I've dealt with so many blind people abusing overpowered stuff who will swear black and white that it's not overpowered over the years. Literally thousands.

You're just like them.

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Well of course, he doesn't want to lose his "I win" class. Nobody would I guess, it's human nature.

Still, SMN is OP. Period.

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Originally Posted by Dorin

Well of course, he doesn't want to lose his "I win" class. Nobody would I guess, it's human nature.

Still, SMN is OP. Period.

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I've always supported and advocated nerfs to overpowered classes I have played in the past. I want a level playing field more than anything else!

Can we get a nerf to this worthless class already? Sick of horrible baddies facerolling on it. Force them to play something skilful or hell, make them quit. Either works. Just right now, they're ruining PvP. Make an all-SMN queue and let them enjoy the hell they are creating. Allow the rest of us worthwhile people to play in peace.