EM Garuda melee.... how?

Adds do that little circle kick which one shots me at 4400 HP... Pretty sure my group doesn't want me standing around for adds.

So after searching for more info it seems there is some extreme lag to go along with extreme garuda. No other melee in these videos are taking the kind of damage I was taking.

The sisters? I thought they were the same in the sense that you have to stay behind the 180 degree attack they do. Same with garuda herself.

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Originally Posted by NeonC

The sisters? I thought they were the same in the sense that you have to stay behind the 180 degree attack they do. Same with garuda herself.

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Not slipstream... its the spinkick thing that was killing me. Talked to other groups that wasn't happening to melee so I am guessing lag.

It's called Wicked Whirl, and yes it 1 shots melee.

So much for designing encounters to make melee viable, huh?

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Originally Posted by omniwaink

It's called Wicked Whirl, and yes it 1 shots melee.

So much for designing encounters to make melee viable, huh?

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I'm trying to look at it like Dark Souls difficulty.
In a way the fights are really similar.

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Originally Posted by omniwaink

It's called Wicked Whirl, and yes it 1 shots melee.

So much for designing encounters to make melee viable, huh?

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Got tagged with this many of times last night, was never a one shot.
Hurts yeah, but not enough to one shot.

No, my little pug group did not end up beating her, but we made it to the rinse repeat cycle of the end. Probably ending somewhere near 30% life left on her. So third cycle of repeat, probably another two or three to go with our current dps
The melee really does not have a problem from what I saw of the fight. Much of it is positional, and much of it is knowing where the mobs are coming in from and what path the tank is taking with them.
Short of that, and the group wide AoE, most everything else is avoidable.

It is synchronized with the target that appears on a player (I believe the green line add puts the target up). When the target appears both adds will do the 360 attack. Though it might seem random it can be avoided with vocalized communication. Soon as the target shows up people have to call it out so melee moves out to avoid and goes back in.

When you see the Fracture (at least I think it is fracture) being cast, you know you need to move soon. Our monk was dying like 4 times every pull at first, until he learned when to move. After that, it is easy to handle. But yes, it will always one shot kill you if you take it. If you don't have a Parser with an alarm feature, get one.

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Originally Posted by T0rin

When you see the Fracture (at least I think it is fracture) being cast, you know you need to move soon. Our monk was dying like 4 times every pull at first, until he learned when to move. After that, it is easy to handle. But yes, it will always one shot kill you if you take it. If you don't have a Parser with an alarm feature, get one.

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Or just learn the fight and don't have a parser do the only hard part there is.... that is a weak suggestion, in my opinion.

How geared was the Monk ?
My pug group rotated members a number of times, at one point there where two of us Dragoons in there, and both of us could live through the spin. Rest of the time, I was only melee short tank.

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Originally Posted by Peptaru

Or just learn the fight and don't have a parser do the only hard part there is.... that is a weak suggestion, in my opinion.

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I suppose you're the kind of guy who likes to do Dive Bombs and Twisters and everything else just going off of the cast bar too, huh? Weak suggestion? Sure.

Its a pretty easy mechanic, just make sure you never DPS Suparna or Garuda when they are stacked together, you can eat one but you cant eat two.

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Originally Posted by IllusionGnarash

Its a pretty easy mechanic, just make sure you never DPS Suparna or Garuda when they are stacked together, you can eat one but you cant eat two.

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Our monk is i86, we never DPS them together, he was dying to a single spin kick thing on a single add, many times. Perhaps you can survive it with a bunch of vit accessories, but not with just myth/allagan.

As I stated before T0rin,
I took the hits many times. No Vit accessories, only Myth Allagan gearing and food.
I have DPSed them single and together. There is a mechanic to watch for and avoid to help :P

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Originally Posted by T0rin

Our monk is i86, we never DPS them together, he was dying to a single spin kick thing on a single add, many times. Perhaps you can survive it with a bunch of vit accessories, but not with just myth/allagan.

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i88 DRG, I had this issue once, we had the Red add stacked on Garuda and was DPSing it down and of course I died to Wicked Wheel. Next attempt though I was ready for it, and popped Feather Foot + Keen Flurry. Surprise, I did't die. I think its more about just putting up some defensive cooldowns.... or just sit in the back and wait and take the dps loss.

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Originally Posted by omniwaink

It's called Wicked Whirl, and yes it 1 shots melee.

So much for designing encounters to make melee viable, huh?

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Ya know this is exactly what I thought when I was fighting the last boss of Crystal Tower. Was thinking "Wow this is easy for any melee... sucks to be a ranged player" =P

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Originally Posted by T0rin

Our monk is i86, we never DPS them together, he was dying to a single spin kick thing on a single add, many times. Perhaps you can survive it with a bunch of vit accessories, but not with just myth/allagan.

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I am thinking something may actually be bugged with the damage it does. I have seen videos and heard reports (here) that the aoe is a joke. I have also seen videos where melee get one shot/nearly one shot. I am was in i82 on my last attempts and got destroyed.

It is possible there is some trick to the damage they do with it but I haven't seen anyone say anything about it.

which spinning kick? I got lost here.

All I recall for the sisters was, Chirada will first do a slipstream which is just dodge, it will be followed up by a marking on one of the DPS like WP's slime boss. Just get the DPS to stack together and eat it, the damage will spread out to about 1.5-1.7k among the 4 DPS. If there is only 1 DPS standing in front of Chirada and eat it alone, it will be about 6k plus.

After this it would be slipstream again if she hasn't die yet.

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Originally Posted by T0rin

When you see the Fracture (at least I think it is fracture) being cast, you know you need to move soon. Our monk was dying like 4 times every pull at first, until he learned when to move. After that, it is easy to handle. But yes, it will always one shot kill you if you take it. If you don't have a Parser with an alarm feature, get one.

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There is a parser with an alarm?

You can dodge Wicked Wheel, was just doing that fight a bit ago. They do Wicked Wheel after a Friction, sometimes with a Downburst in between. As long as you move out before it hits you should be okay. In the phase with the big cross tornado, you should be able to get far enough away if you move to the edge of your safe zone on the very outer ring of the arena. Our tanks had the add on the other side close to the outer edge, creating enough space to escape the hit.

Wicked wheel always follows after a friction. Melee can step away from add (far away) when the cast for friction starts happening. Should be able to dodge the attack completely.

That's a very nice tip, I should definitely ask my static to try it out.

I downed Garuda EX in a pug we gonna work in titan this weekend took up 6 tries easy mode.

On first Sisters with pillars up, when fighting Suprana move away after Friction, she'll do Downburst followed by Wicked Wheel (the thing that wipes melees), then move back in. For tornado phase adds, Suprana does Slipstream followed by Wicked Wheel, again move away to a corner. Tank MUST tank the add in a corner of the wind pocket or melee won't have room to dodge.

Didn't they say they wanted to make fights for melee more forgiving?...

I haven't tried this fight yet, but it honestly sounds like melee are yet again at another disadvantage vs ranged in terms of fight mechanics.

Don't have BFB up when eating a wicked wheel :p.

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Originally Posted by T0rin

I suppose you're the kind of guy who likes to do Dive Bombs and Twisters and everything else just going off of the cast bar too, huh? Weak suggestion? Sure.

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You needing a 3rd party crutch puts you in the minority of players. You should never tell someone to enlist the aid of a 3rd party, save-your-butt button. I'm sorry the game is so hard for you, but it remains a weak suggestion. As you can see, many other people can survive this fight by learning the fight.

We pull Chirada away, melee her with no issues. Then I would wait until our tank calls Wicked Wheel has been cast then I go in to Suparna. After that if Friction is being cast I back out until Wicked Wheel is called again. It is melee unfriendly...thankfully Titan EM is good for melee.

I am full i90 and it is a 1 shot to me, I think DRG's can survive it barely. It hits me for over 5k.

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Originally Posted by Peptaru

You needing a 3rd party crutch puts you in the minority of players. You should never tell someone to enlist the aid of a 3rd party, save-your-butt button. I'm sorry the game is so hard for you, but it remains a weak suggestion. As you can see, many other people can survive this fight by learning the fight.

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I think you fail to see the difference between 'needing' a 3rd party 'crutch', and using one because it simply makes things easier. Offering advice of something they can easily do, to help learn the fight more easily, I don't see as a weak suggestion. It is weak to simply dismiss anything that might help you at all, simply on the merit of doing everything the hardest way possible as being a somehow superior option. It isn't. You can do learn every lesson the hard way if you want. Me? I'll take the path of least resistance, because in the end, the goal is downing the content, not struggling as much as humanly possible to get there.

The order of moves of the sisters if ground targeted Friction, frontal cleave, Wicked Wheel with maybe 3 seconds between each attack. Wicked Wheel will pretty much oneshot everyone but a tank. Just make sure as a melee DPS you move out of melee range shortly after Friction.

It sucks yeah, but once you get a feel for when each twin does it you can pretty much dodge it, I was doing this consistently after about 10-15 minutes of doing the fight. It went along the lines of this "Ok XXX sister is nearing 15% hp, its about this time she usually does the attack, i better run out", run out, dodge attack, go back in and finish her off. rinse repeat. if you can't do this then ask for a stoneskin so atleast you don't get 1 shot, or get more than 4.5k hp ^^

They have a clear rotation and it can be dodged if you're paying attention. In the first phase the abilities leading up to wicked wheel are: Friction (ground AoE w/ red circle), then the frontal swipe, then wicked wheel. Once you see the ground AoE start watching for the frontal swipe, then after that gtfo until you see wicked wheel go off.

In the tornado phase it's similar. Suparna will cast slipstream with a cast bar, then shortly after do the wicked wheel. I've just been staying out of range until wicked wheel goes off after I see the cast bar. Garuda's wicked wheel happens right after Chirada casts friction. So basically in the tornado phase as soon as you see either of the sisters casting something, get as far away from either Suparna or Garuda as possible until you see the wicked wheel. This is easily my worst fight as far as melee uptime goes, so don't worry if you spend more time than usual standing around waiting for the wheel to go off, since you'll be doing even less damage if you get oneshot by it :P

Hope this helped!

As a MNK ilvl 83 I use Fists of Earth combined with Foresight and the attack does 3.2k damage. Got used to it after being one spotted 4-5 times. As far as I can tell, she'll use it soon after she does Friction.

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Originally Posted by kaox_reaper

As a MNK ilvl 83 I use Fists of Earth combined with Foresight and the attack does 3.2k damage. Got used to it after being one spotted 4-5 times. As far as I can tell, she'll use it soon after she does Friction.

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I was about to post asking how effective just using a defensive CD or two would be. Nice to know it works.

The main thing is to not use BFB.

If you are dealing with Wicked Wheel in this fight then you don't understand the mechanics of the fight or your group dps is low. If the fight is done correctly melee dps will never see a wicked wheel.

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Originally Posted by MomoOG

If you are dealing with Wicked Wheel in this fight then you don't understand the mechanics of the fight or your group dps is low. If the fight is done correctly melee dps will never see a wicked wheel.

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I am still trying to understand what causes wicked wheel. Most of the time I don't see it now but others I do. The videos I have watched show the exact same thing... sometimes they use it and others they don't.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

The main thing is to not use BFB.

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With the nerf to BfB I don't use it nearly as much as I did before. If there is any chance I will get hit with something that could kill me or that I will be an MP drain I skip it until I know I am safe.

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Originally Posted by Rochetm

I am still trying to understand what causes wicked wheel. Most of the time I don't see it now but others I do. The videos I have watched show the exact same thing... sometimes they use it and others they don't.

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Wicked Wheel occurs at a set time only during the sister phases. Your dps should be able to kill Chirada before Wheel comes out. Usually Wheel occurs just after you kill Chirada and you are transitioning over to Suprana. If you dps is TOO fast then you might have to wait a second or two before Suprana/Garuda do the Wheel before jumping to Suprana. I've been told Wheel is only done when all 3 sisters are alive but I'm pretty sure I've seen Suprana/Garuda do the Wheel after Chirada goes down.

Wicked Wheel definitely still happens when only Suparna/Garuda are up