CCs

They are absolutely ridiculous in your PvP system. No CC should last for 30s. It should be something like 15/8/4.

I'm sure there will be a lot of fine tuning coming in the next couple of weeks.

WHM + 2 BLM. Swiftcast + sleep 3 enemies, proceed to 1v4 the remaining individual. Use blizzard to permanently slow them, rotate sleeps before they wear off. Yeah...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Splorch

WHM + 2 BLM. Swiftcast + sleep 3 enemies, proceed to 1v4 the remaining individual. Use blizzard to permanently slow them, rotate sleeps before they wear off. Yeah...

---

One word. Purify XD

Most important first skill you can get. Just a pain upto rank 3 getting 30 sec then 15 sec slept. Doesn't take long to get it tho.

I've never been slept for more than 5 seconds to be honest. If you stay asleep for 30s, you or your team did something very wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sapphic

One word. Purify XD

Most important first skill you can get. Just a pain upto rank 3 getting 30 sec then 15 sec slept. Doesn't take long to get it tho.

---

so your one word is pretty bad since that ability takes 4 minutes to get off CD and it takes how long to recast sleep? if sleep was a 4 min cd then sure makes sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rederick

so your one word is pretty bad since that ability takes 4 minutes to get off CD and it takes how long to recast sleep? if sleep was a 4 min cd then sure makes sense.

---

If as a lancer your allowing a blm to hard cast sleep, your doing it wrong, to be honest.

The problem is not only with ridiculous pve cc durations, it's also with the fact that the damage dealt is also "pve-ish". In a 4vs4 environment in a clean arena DM, people would have to live longer than now, even if they are afk (of course, this shouldn't be long, but now is pretty much simple binary chess game - which would be okay if the pieces in that chess were characters' abilities and not characters themselves). The skills and really the whole approach to pvp should be MASSIVELY tweaked in every way possible, so the characters could actually play that chess and counter/synergize with each other in a time frame that allows for the match development - again, I am not talking about some long boring matches where everybody runs around for half an hour and getting their cd's reset for ten times.

This is not about winning or losing, I don't know why you guys are making it so. It's about some basic principles - which are present in other games and should be present in this one too - not because "omg they need to cater the masses" or "omg everybody does it like that", but because they are there for a reason and after years (decades?) of practical feedback.

It's also not about the balance, things can be balanced and badly executed at the same time.

I am aware that pvp will most likely receive massive overhauls over time and that this is the inevitable bad start, but I am also a bit surprised about that starting point being this, how should I put it - unperceptive. I mean, the flaws are way too fundamental, it's odd nobody said anything during development, in any phase of development, really.

I could not possibly agree with Doolio more. The way it is now is completely unfun, and a trainwreck in my opinion. Spend 1-2 minutes loading, 2 minutes waiting for the match, 15 seconds getting gangbanged by their team (I play a scholar in my 30's), another 20 seconds waiting for my team to die, then another minute loading out. Feel extreme anger and frustration. Rinse, Repeat. There is absolutely no strategy involved except 'kill the healer first' or 'wait until your uber friends are online and create an unstoppable team of 4 that wipes the floor with randoms all day. I'm extremely disappointed with the launch, I refuse to play pvp anymore until they perform some massive patch surgery on this disaster.

I think that, if they wanted to let their pvp child first go out there and THEN grow from point zero, they should have done it in a way that is less obvious, to put it that way. I mean, arena DM with very small groups of people battling each other without environment interaction, quirky objectives or mechanics is something even games which gameplay consists of ONLY that aspect often do bad. It's too bare and to minimal to offer any kind of buffer for bad stuff.
If you have something like 30vs30 on a more complex map with some simple objectives and respawning, anything can happen, really. Even the most broken effects won't count as much and won't kill the fun.
They basically selected the most bare and mind boglingly sensitive and balance dependant mode for pvp without thinking basic things through. I think they could go with one of those, but not with two:)

Yeah sleep is just too stupid.. a 30 cc is retarded. Sprint is another thing too, you cast sprint you basically get to avoid 100% melee damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Atticus-sil

Yeah sleep is just too stupid.. a 30 cc is retarded. Sprint is another thing too, you cast sprint you basically get to avoid 100% melee damage.

---

Problem is without sprint, with the 100% interruption on spellcasting when your attacked means the mage can't do anything either. At least sprint can't be done indefinitely. I mean try having all of your abilities bar like 3 become completely unusable just because someones hitting you.

Sounds like some of you need to L2P. You shouldn't be sleep for to long if you use purify. Also, I never kill the healer first, I kite their ass while my DD's take out a ranged DPS. As a WAR, I use SE to put the -50% healing received on a healer. Brutal swing, holmgang, and SE combo, and healer is only trying to keep themselves alive. After a DD is down, then you get on the healer.

Stop complaining because you can't do something well, and Git Gud

Bringing it to l2p is pure spinning. It has nothing to do with that, it has to do with bad system, which people are discussing. You haven't said anything that counters what they have said, you have just described how you successfully cope with said bad system, which is irrelevant. Whether you are good or bad as a player has nothing to do with things discussed here.

I would welcome PVP ONLY reduction of sleep duration to 10 sec with current DR of 1/2 each cast and removal of sprint IF I can cast whole being hit

in my group we tweaked out 3 things crippling the pvp fun:

1. sleep
2. sprint is much to op atm (cd/duration/ slow counts as cc and is uses... /doing 5/3/1 s on a slow that doesnt effect sprinting guys....)
3. SMN dots and ballast scale too high in pvp 2k dmg with a ballast? my mnk does 360 stylehits.....

K lets say you use purify and they swift cast it again thats 25 seconds youre asleep... and as for sprint, to fix this is they need to nerf sprint and make it so healers do not get interrupted by hits but instead stuns, silences ect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Basuh

in my group we tweaked out 3 things crippling the pvp fun:

1. sleep
2. sprint is much to op atm (cd/duration/ slow counts as cc and is uses... /doing 5/3/1 s on a slow that doesnt effect sprinting guys....)
3. SMN dots and ballast scale too high in pvp 2k dmg with a ballast? my mnk does 360 stylehits.....

---

Stop using PvE gear in PvP and you wont get 2k hits anymore. Moral makes a HUGE difference in damage taken. Ilvl90 pve gear does not compare.

People need to stop jumping to instant conclusions that PvP Sucks!

Have you purchased any PvP gear? Have you socketed your PvP gear with Sleep Resist Materia? Did you purchase additional skills with your PvP points?

If no to these points, then stop crying and progress through the PvP system as it is intended.

I'm sure they made the Sleep duration last that long, initially, because as people progress in the system, Sleep will have a greater chance to be resisted or the duration will be greatly reduced.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doolio

Whether you are good or bad as a player has nothing to do with things discussed here.

---

Actually, being a good or bad player does have something to do with it. The perception of the system is going to be different if you are bad at the system versus if you are good at the system.

That being said, I think you're exaggerating the problems quite a bit. It's certainly not a binary system, we're not running around with railguns insta-gibbing people. As for the pve-type damage, that really only applies to the potential output, the application is different. Last time I checked, pve bosses don't sprint away from you and try to LoS you around corners. I believe the system is good because it rewards coordination and adaptability, just as a PvP system should. The system needs tweaking, but it not as fatally flawed as people are claiming.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by scarebearz

If as a lancer your allowing a blm to hard cast sleep, your doing it wrong, to be honest.

---

THIS right here. SC sure nothing u can do but Purify and the BLM is screwed unless our Healer dies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MercurialZero

Actually, being a good or bad player does have something to do with it. The perception of the system is going to be different if you are bad at the system versus if you are good at the system.

That being said, I think you're exaggerating the problems quite a bit. It's certainly not a binary system, we're not running around with railguns insta-gibbing people. As for the pve-type damage, that really only applies to the potential output, the application is different. Last time I checked, pve bosses don't sprint away from you and try to LoS you around corners. I believe the system is good because it rewards coordination and adaptability, just as a PvP system should. The system needs tweaking, but it not as fatally flawed as people are claiming.

---

Well, of course nothing is black and white, it's the way of the universe:) But still, I do think that the system is, if not fatally flawed (I don't believe in fatally flawed as a description, everything can be tweaked or even rebuilt), then at least heavily flawed.
I have played quite a bit of pvp across various games (similar or not) as I believe you have too - and I really find it odd that people would disagree in this matter. I really hope it's due to different wording for same opinions (maybe my "omg it's flawed" is the same as somebody's "well it's a bit flawed"). Nevertheless, I don't think it's irreparable. But I do say that this is the worst implementation of a pvp mode in a game I have ever seen. This is not meant as an insult to developers or something, it's just a non-colored statement.

Now, why I tend to jump in when people start talking about skill and l2p is because I am absolutely positive that nothing good comes of it and that it's spinning 101 and it derails the discussion in some direction which is fruitless in every possible way. I don't mean in general, I mean in this examples, with ffarr and pvp.

I am well aware that people that won't/can't adapt and evolve in a system, they will always lose and they will whine and they will perceive the whole thing as something, well, bad and frightening and chaotic and frantic. But, I am trying to say that here, that's not the point. For example, let's take quake and wow (just two random games from the top of my head, no "omg quake is cool" or "let's make everything into wow", I have no such allegiances:) ). In both games I have entered pretty late, so I was literally living for like two secs per spawn and everything was blurry and I was hitting wrong buttons and all that stuff. But never once I have felt that the system itself is flawed, I was always like "well, I guess I would have to try harder and practice" or something like that. Even when I was literally having no fun for hours because everybody else was on that train for years and I have just entered the fray.
Here, I see flaws upon flaws.

You can disagree and I respect that. But, just for the record, look at the post I was replying to and see why I have said that.

purify should have a 1 min CD, or allow you to build 90% resistance to it, or potentially be able to buy "ribbon" materia.