The Economy is a changin'! And it seems positive.

When Yoshi announced that this morning that players were going to be able to easily obtain 20k a day (minimum), I kinda had to smile.

I approve of this. This creates a large influx of Gil into the economy. Everybody wins in this.

We get a base 20k. Which means Everybody in the game is getting more spending money. More Spending money = more Buyers. More Buyers = More money in the market.

Till now we've had alot of player's who aren't really sure how to make money, they've been surviving on what little they've had left from the Story line. Which means we've had A LOT of players who haven't been able to participate in the economy; and now they can.

The markets going to inflate a bit, but since housing prices are staying where they are for awhile, inflation (particularly massive inflation) is a good thing. Everyone is getting a reliable source of income; instead of just people who know how to play the market.

And for those of us who're already proficient in the market, we are going to do even better. This is a nice boon to the economy. A lot is going to change, but lets face it, the games economy has been circling the drain for a long time now, so it NEED's this kind of change. Personally, I am much less upset about housing prices with this.

(Had to add this in a second post... wouldnt let me exceed 1000 characters in the first one...)

Who exactly is buying your stuff?

Everyone I know is saving for a house.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

You have no idea how this works do you.

Who exactly is buying your stuff?

Everyone I know has 300mil to save for.

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So everyone you know is saving up 300 million each?

How many people "do you know"?

I can guarantee in a month or so we'll look back at this uproar and point and laugh at everyone who made such a fuss.

The house prices are still bad.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

You have no idea how this works do you.

Who exactly is buying your stuff?

Everyone I know has 300mil to save for.

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You do realize that not everyone is wanting a house at release right? It will help the economy loads.

how is that good per say? inseta of everyone undercutting, now they are purposely gonna overprice everything in the name of housing?

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

You have no idea how this works do you.

Who exactly is buying your stuff?

Everyone I know has 300mil to save for.

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Don't worry, housing content doesn't really exist. Nobody goes to those zones, nobody is buying housing, and nobody cares about it anymore. Therefore, there will be inflation across all servers as the amount of gil in circulation increases drastically. The only problem now is how there is way too much supply and very low demand for anything besides crafter/gatherer equipment, crafter/gatherer materia, and crystals.

yes this is not the greatest day for housing prepared to be undercut even more by people that want to get quick sales towards buying a house

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Originally Posted by Coltvoyance

The markets going to inflate a bit

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I would expect more than that, actually. Going to 2.2, I should expect to the tune of 10 billion new gil to be added to each server's economy, and there aren't enough FCs around to buy the houses to offset that gil.

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Originally Posted by DoctorMog

Everyone I know has 300mil to save for.

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What would they be saving 300 mil for? Individual FC houses? I mean, hell, do you really think prices will stay that high? The entire point of the price difference is to absorb some of the ludicrous amount of excess gil on legacy servers.

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Originally Posted by Arriverderci

The house prices are still bad.

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Thank you for the obvious. Still the point is good: the game (and i mean the game, not exchangin gil) is going to generate more money, and more money is more spending power, more spending power, more crafters and gatherers can gain and buy that damn terrain. Obviusly, it's not something you can do asap, and while i totally know the current prices are atrocius and need to be changed, i love the idea to have something i have to work a lot to obtain.

What market? Market has been dead and dying for months because everyone can make their own stuff.

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Originally Posted by Ryknow

You do realize that not everyone is wanting a house at release right? It will help the economy loads.

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You do realize that no one can afford a house at release right? We will be saving for months for that house, and that's IF we don't spend any money.

True, but with so many people having IL90, what exactly is there to buy?

FC houses is about the only thing to spend money on. People don't need to buy gear. We don't need to buy mats either, we can just go farm them ourselves.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

True, but with so many people having IL90, what exactly is there to buy?

FC houses is about the only thing to spend money on. People don't need to buy gear. We don't need to buy mats either, we can just go farm them ourselves.

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I dunno, I'm pretty lazy. I don't craft much, but when I do I usually just buy my mats for the convenience cause I'm just trying to level it for now (cause I dont have a lvl 50 craft/gather yet, except fishing).

And never under estimate the allure of convenience. A majority of the American economy is based on it. lol.

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Originally Posted by Holymonkeygod

You do realize that no one can afford a house at release right? We will be saving for months for that house, and that's IF we don't spend any money.

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Look, lets say that your server has 100 people (I know they have ALOT more 1k+) if each of those did the dailies and each gained 20k that's 2mil gil pumped into the server. If the said people did it for a week that's 14mil.

It WILL boost the economy.

The increase in gil will be nice, but I don't think that's what killing the economy.

Gathering: Only the unspoiled nodes are limited. Besides those, players can gather endlessly and have created a huge supply of materials. The market is beyond flooded with them.

Crafting: I like crafting but it is too easy in my opinion. Players with the right gear and materia can guarantee hq synths with nq materials.

Demand for items on the market: Drops from dungeons and bosses are better than almost all of the items you can craft. Only min/maxers use some two star synthed gear really after they hit level 50. There is an enormous supply and a very small demand. This is probably the biggest problem related to the economy.

Actually, the economy is most likely either not going to change, or change for the worse...

It has a chance of not changing if people don't start attempting to save for houses on-masse; The reasoning for this is, if everyone is able to get 20k a day just by using battle classes, then prices will increase to reflect the gil that's in the system. You might might recieve more gil in the transactions, but you won't actually increase your buying power.

The economy has a chance to get worse too though, if even one-third to one-half of the population start saving to try and buy one of the overpriced plots of land, we'll be left in an economy where everyone is selling but no one will be buying; Then when you add in that everyone's wallets can increase by 20k a day just by battle classes, prices will still increase as people expect everyone to have more gil -and- the fact that they want to try and make the most gil off the people that are still active in the economy.

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Originally Posted by Jennika

There is an enormous supply and a very small demand. This is probably the biggest problem related to the economy.

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Granted, demand isn't very high. but then again there are alot of players who just dont have any extra spending money, so even if they wanted to buy something, they couldn't. This should allow more people to participate in the market now that they have purchasing power and thus, create more demand. Ideally, at least. But who knows.

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Originally Posted by zakalw3

I can guarantee in a month or so we'll look back at this uproar and point and laugh at everyone who made such a fuss.

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World: Lich

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Someone on the cheapest housing tier thinks housing prices are fine? Why am I not surprised?

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

ludicrous amount of excess gil on legacy servers.

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RMT has it but everyone else was rob by SE for 90% of or gil.

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Originally Posted by frostmagemari

It has a chance of not changing if people don't start attempting to save for houses on-masse; The reasoning for this is, if everyone is able to get 20k a day just by using battle classes, then prices will increase to reflect the gil that's in the system. You might might recieve more gil in the transactions, but you won't actually increase your buying power.

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Yes this will inflate prices across the board to adjust for the new income, but you're missing the part where MORE people get to participate now because EVERYONE is getting money. More people who get to participate in the market and buy things now which means greater potential for increased demand in the market.

If this is true, Colt, then that's a welcome change. I can't quite shake the feeling, however, that this is all going backwards. I mean, first we had Coil before CT, and now they're releasing housing prices based on how they expect the economy to do in the future, instead of injecting gil into the economy and then releasing jacked up prices. It just feels...really strange.

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Originally Posted by Gamemako

What would they be saving 300 mil for? Individual FC houses? I mean, hell, do you really think prices will stay that high? The entire point of the price difference is to absorb some of the ludicrous amount of excess gil on legacy servers.

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Even the legacy players I know of on my server don't have that kind of gil. Well, outside of the ONE guy in ONE LS who claims to have 500 million. Says he got it "totally legit" by selling Coke and Potash at the start of the game for 200k a pop. Because he was totally selling to players with legit gil. Yup.

ACHOO!!!!

...

O_O

Woops, sorry, I sneezed. *Runs away*

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Originally Posted by Raikki

Someone on the cheapest housing tier thinks housing prices are fine? Why am I not surprised?

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Oh that old boot again...

Time will tell, you're all going to look very silly when everything works out OK.

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Originally Posted by Coltvoyance

Yes this will inflate prices across the board to adjust for the new income, but you're missing the part where MORE people get to participate now because EVERYONE is getting money. More people who get to participate in the market and buy things now which means greater potential for increased demand in the market.

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what you're missing there is the critical one - why would people participate?

What exactly do we crafters make that people need for the rest of the game?

Almost nothing, and that hasn't changed in 2.1

A new player can start the game tomorrow, and progress all the way to clearing coil 5, without using the market board once.

That is the fundamental flaw in 14's economic system.

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Originally Posted by zakalw3

Oh that old boot again...

Time will tell, you're all going to look very silly when everything works out OK.

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As you will when SE inevitably pulls a Microsoft 180.

Lets see,

2.1 introduces multiple sets of brand new ilvl 80 and 90 gear (all non-crafted)... This means that philo-crafted items will become even less desirable.

We also have new quests with Tier IV materia rewards, so spirit-bonding will be less profitable -- in addition materia will be less useful as it can't be melded to any of the new gear (sans PVP gear, but those melds are inactive outside of the Wolves den)

You can craft furniture, but who can afford a house? (Within a week, the market will be flooded with furnishings which will rapidly fall in price to where they sell for less than the cost of mats)

There's nothing really to buy anymore... and due to housing, many ppl will start hoarding gill, so less buyers as well.


Crafting in FFXIV is pretty much dead, at least until 2.2 and perhaps 2.3 :(

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Originally Posted by Nica

As you will when SE inevitably pulls a Microsoft 180.

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No I won't, because I've not raged either way about it being good or bad.

You see, I'm doing the sensible thing and waiting for it to pan out.

Perhaps we don't have enough data yet, and the way the new content is structured means that things aren't as apparent as they might first seem.

Or, if that's not the case and it rally is unfair, we're very likely to see some kind of adjustment.

I understand raising concerns and discussing these things, but exploding all over the place like it's the end of everything is just insane.

There has to be demand for things to actually boost the economy, more gil alone wont fix the issue. Yet to be seen if housing related items will drive it or not.

Easier ways for gil bots to get money?!

What is there to buy outside houses?

Not sure how the base 20k gil per day farm is going to help those people on the higher priced servers.

They're basically having to pay for the same feature as everyone else, at a massively inflated price, with the same tools and rewards as those on the lesser expensive servers.

In short, we're being shafted.

But how dare I be a disgruntled customer, how dare I want to be treated the same as every one else. How dare I expect my monthly sub to be used to play a game that should be treating us all as equals. Instead I am being penalised for playing when a majority of people abandoned ship. I have more gil, so there-fore I should feel grateful for being charged over 100% more than some servers?

If this is how they work out the personal housing, I will be un-subscribing. The only reason I don't now is because I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and see how it pans out...

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Originally Posted by wirewitch

snip

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It's quite possible they're trying to level out the economy across all servers. Gil sinks and whatnot. Play the market if you're on a high priced server. You'd have an easier time acquiring 1mil gil with the options available to you, compared to someone on the less populated/priced server. Failing to take advantage of other options is why you'll likely never enjoy yourself.

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Originally Posted by zakalw3

You see, I'm doing the sensible thing and waiting for it to pan out.

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that's fine.

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Or, if that's not the case and it rally is unfair, we're very likely to see some kind of adjustment.

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IMO, by then the damage is already done. People don't have a limitless amount of goodwill. Much like CCP in the Incarna fiasco, by the time the company finally reversed direction, it was already too late - for once people really did vote with their wallet, and it marked the first time sub number really dropped for Eve Online, a drop that forced layoffs and took them almost two years to recover from.

Now, I don't think it'll be nearly as bad, but "adjustments" later is not going to un-sour the taste in the mouth of players that got pissed off.

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Originally Posted by Nica

that's fine.



IMO, by then the damage is already done. People don't have a limitless amount of goodwill. Much like CCP in the Incarna fiasco, by the time the company finally reversed direction, it was already too late - for once people really did vote with their wallet, and it marked the first time sub number really dropped for Eve Online, a drop that forced layoffs and took them almost two years to recover from.

Now, I don't think it'll be nearly as bad, but "adjustments" later is not going to un-sour the taste in the mouth of players that got pissed off.

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I can assure you the vast majority of people who are raging now will forgive and forget as soon as:

A: They realise the content isn't as bad as they thought
or
B: Adjustments are made

Hardly anyone is going to leave, and it's not going to damage the game in any significant way.

FC housing should have been bought using FC points instead of gil.

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Originally Posted by wirewitch

Not sure how the base 20k gil per day farm is going to help those people on the higher priced servers.

They're basically having to pay for the same feature as everyone else, at a massively inflated price, with the same tools and rewards as those on the lesser expensive servers.

In short, we're being shafted.

But how dare I be a disgruntled customer, how dare I want to be treated the same as every one else. How dare I expect my monthly sub to be used to play a game that should be treating us all as equals. Instead I am being penalised for playing when a majority of people abandoned ship. I have more gil, so there-fore I should feel grateful for being charged over 100% more than some servers?

If this is how they work out the personal housing, I will be un-subscribing. The only reason I don't now is because I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and see how it pans out...

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The idea with legacy and more active servers is that there's more gil floating around the economy to begin with. So in addition to daily quests, you can raise more money by selling things to other players at higher prices than you normally could on other servers. Potions, food (now lasts through death!), crafting gear, materials, leveling gear (leveling via dungeons is a thing now), or whatever. So even if you don't have any money, your ability to make $$ should be higher on one of those servers than on one of the less active servers where there's less $$ floating around (well, at least until people start buying big houses...)

I don't know if it should be AS much more expensive on the active/legacy servers as it is right now, but it should be more expensive.

I don't think allowing players to get more gil will change anything. The prices will only go up, like it always happens in any mmorpg. Will be good to afford items and services from NPC's, with fixed values, but the players to players market won't really improve. It's like when people were buying gil from RMT, since it was well knowing we had many players with a lot of gil, the prices for HQ stuffs, specially end game gear, went really high in some servers, aiming those gold buyers.

Besides Housing there really is nothing to spend your gil on. I have to imagine most people who spend a significant amount of time on crafting jobs are looking to fund houses, so there goes any market for gatherables. Yes they added some new recipes - for furnishings, but since no one can afford the house they hardly have a need to buy stuff to put in it. There's also the fact that any group who can afford to buy a FC house is going to have at least one member with CRP or WVR leveled, so why would they buy from you?

Then there's armor. With all the dungeons added, and increased way to gather tomestones, there's even less reason for someone to look to the marketwards for high level armor, a market that was pretty much shot before the update. I guess you can sell lowbie armor at 1% profit along with the dozens of other people all doing the same thing.

So what's left? Medicines? Food? Enjoy watching those markets tumble as everyone tries to find any way they can to make enough gil to even look at these houses. Not even considering the fact that any FC with a need for those consumables will likely have a multiple members willing to make it all at cost.

I second the good Doctor when I ask: Who exactly will be buying your stuff?