Do bards deserve all the nerf ?

I know this has been addressed already, but really do bards deserve all the nerf they got?

Sure bard was better in moving and dodging like in titan most likely, but in most stationary fights bards has the lowest dps in all, i would accept a little nerf on the dmg or cross skill over all but they made Rain of death useless as well which was one of the main support skill for the bards! why would i lower evasion for mobs that we dont miss already ?

am not against the nerf really but i think they took it too far:D

RoD was only of use in huge mobs like in WP SRs, apart from that monsteres die so easily that the skill is not even worth the TP.
What's worse is I guess is the fact that flame arrow will undo the status of sleep and stuff like that. Much more annoying in my opinion.

SE seems to REAAALY hate speedruns lol

My thoughts:

• RoD: If Mob Evasion is purely based on Acc and zero Dmg Calculations, for current content its useless. If Mob Eva is calculated with its Dmg taken, wait for some data before calling it useless.
  
• Cross Class: Our sustained dmg has always been on the bottom. These changes really effect our Burst Dmg and I can see why they were needed. It also effects Mnk and Drg on Cross-Class, however they received separate boosts in their own actions.

I honestly haven't even researched Mob Evasion in this game as I've met Acc requirements on all content. Now I have a reason to.

I'd rather they reduce our Burst than our already at Game Launch adjusted lower sustained dmg or mess with things like BL proc and potency.

Still just better off waiting to see the data from geared/skilled players out of Turn 5. Not the majority complaints towards BRD from questionable geared/skilled players on Titan (hard) that helped make these changes.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

wait for some data before calling it useless.

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Why would you need to wait for data? If you want to play your DPS class correctly, you will be accuracy capped from gear and food. Unless there is some really awful gimmick in CT (lol), RoD is now useless in PvE outside of being a free AoE when you get a proc off Wide Volley.

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Originally Posted by energeisT

Why would you need to wait for data? If you want to play your DPS class correctly, you will be accuracy capped from gear and food. Unless there is some really awful gimmick in CT (lol), RoD is now useless in PvE outside of being a free AoE when you get a proc off Wide Volley.

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MNK and DRG poppin featherfoot in your face would like a word with you.

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Originally Posted by energeisT

Why would you need to wait for data? If you want to play your DPS class correctly, you will be accuracy capped from gear and food.

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I will repost what I stated in an easier to read format.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

I honestly haven't even researched Mob Evasion in this game as I've met Accuracy requirements on all content and didn't feel a need to at the time.

RoD:

• If Mob Evasion is purely based on the Accuracy of Players and there are no Dmg Calculations involved, then 2.1 RoD is useless.
• If Mob Evasion has Dmg taken calculations involved, wait for some data before calling it useless.

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Even if there is no Damage Calculation, if RoD helps in any Mob mechanics for the new content and/or changes. It won't be entirely useless.

My main point is wait for the patch release and actual data from findings.

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Originally Posted by Ephier

MNK and DRG poppin featherfoot in your face would like a word with you.

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Originally Posted by energeisT

RoD is now useless in PvE

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Reading comprehension would like to have a word with you.

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Originally Posted by Reishi

RoD was only of use in huge mobs like in WP SRs, apart from that monsteres die so easily that the skill is not even worth the TP.
What's worse is I guess is the fact that flame arrow will undo the status of sleep and stuff like that. Much more annoying in my opinion.

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You Sir, are so wrong.....No experience in "end game" huh? RoD saved lives over a million times on Twintania ;) Now it´ll be a Warriors job^^

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Originally Posted by Electrowitch

You Sir, are so wrong.....No experience in "end game" huh? RoD saved lives over a million times on Twintania ;) Now it´ll be a Warriors job^^

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Which translates into a minor "buff" since now you have those 200 TP to spare on abilities to do more damage :D

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Originally Posted by NeruMew

Which translates into a minor "buff" since now you have those 200 TP to spare on abilities to do more damage :D

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With Invigorate TP was never a issue to begin with unless you spammed AOEs, you can spam skills all day anyway.

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Originally Posted by Elherm

I know this has been addressed already, but really do bards deserve all the nerf they got?

Sure bard was better in moving and dodging like in titan most likely, but in most stationary fights bards has the lowest dps in all, i would accept a little nerf on the dmg or cross skill over all but they made Rain of death useless as well which was one of the main support skill for the bards! why would i lower evasion for mobs that we dont miss already ?

am not against the nerf really but i think they took it too far:D

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The nerfs make sense from the context of PvP balancing. So yes it's deserved.

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Originally Posted by Electrowitch

You Sir, are so wrong.....No experience in "end game" huh? RoD saved lives over a million times on Twintania ;) Now it´ll be a Warriors job^^

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well, never even tried Twintania once

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Originally Posted by newbie

The nerfs make sense from the context of PvP balancing. So yes it's deserved.

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PvE and PvP skills aren't the same and they separated them in order to keep the game balanced so no, it isn't deserved.

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Originally Posted by StrejdaTom

PvE and PvP skills aren't the same and they separated them in order to keep the game balanced so no, it isn't deserved.

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They're not the same but your PvE skills are available to be used. It's what you start off with then over time you can unlock PvP skills.

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Originally Posted by Elherm

I know this has been addressed already, but really do bards deserve all the nerf they got?

Sure bard was better in moving and dodging like in titan most likely, but in most stationary fights bards has the lowest dps in all, i would accept a little nerf on the dmg or cross skill over all but they made Rain of death useless as well which was one of the main support skill for the bards! why would i lower evasion for mobs that we dont miss already ?

am not against the nerf really but i think they took it too far:D

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To put it bluntly, yes...

When a Bard in full darklight + hoplite earrings pulls in more dps than me in fully slotted 2 star hq + myth (BiS) chest + Gae Bolg+1 (BiS) + myth ring (BiS) the answer to your question is a full throttled YES.

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Originally Posted by AugustusSB

To put it bluntly, yes...

When a Bard in full darklight + hoplite earrings pulls in more dps than me in fully slotted 2 star hq + myth (BiS) chest + Gae Bolg+1 (BiS) + myth ring (BiS) the answer to your question is a full throttled YES.

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Not to be rude, but if that is the case, i think the Brd is playing good, and u need to work on ur rotation.

I don't really consider this much of a nerf. I mean it only affects one move and when dmg really counts...like on Twintania...Brds will still be mid-high level DPS.

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Originally Posted by Phai

Not to be rude, but if that is the case, i think the Brd is playing good, and u need to work on ur rotation.

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QFT. In T5, Bards are the lowest DPS pre-patch. Our Rain of Death helped fill in gaps where someone messed up a Virus rotation (which is also gone now, btw), and our burst helped greatly on the short conflags. Now we have much less utility and burst inside Turn 5 (the most important fight of the game until 2.2). We'll get by just fine, if for nothing less than Mage's Ballad for the WHM and Foe's Requiem for big snake. It's still a huge nerf that has really geared T5 groups in a situation where they're heavily considering cutting out BRD entirely, and will assuredly be testing BRDless teams.

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Originally Posted by AugustusSB

To put it bluntly, yes...

When a Bard in full darklight + hoplite earrings pulls in more dps than me in fully slotted 2 star hq + myth (BiS) chest + Gae Bolg+1 (BiS) + myth ring (BiS) the answer to your question is a full throttled YES.

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Nothing wrong with that. My bard was top dps in my coil group the entire 2.0 without a DRG present. I don't understand why Dragoons get so upset when they lose to bard dps when they have a debuff that specifically helps a bard's damage.

I hope these recent changes help melee dps because my back hurts from all the carrying I've been doing.

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Originally Posted by BrandoH

QFT. In T5, Bards are the lowest DPS pre-patch. Our Rain of Death helped fill in gaps where someone messed up a Virus rotation (which is also gone now, btw), and our burst helped greatly on the short conflags. Now we have much less utility and burst inside Turn 5 (the most important fight of the game until 2.2). We'll get by just fine, if for nothing less than Mage's Ballad for the WHM and Foe's Requiem for big snake. It's still a huge nerf that has really geared T5 groups in a situation where they're heavily considering cutting out BRD entirely, and will assuredly be testing BRDless teams.

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To cut out bard of he party and make it the norm, I don't forsee that happening at all. Ever.

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Originally Posted by BrandoH

QFT. In T5, Bards are the lowest DPS pre-patch. Our Rain of Death helped fill in gaps where someone messed up a Virus rotation (which is also gone now, btw), and our burst helped greatly on the short conflags. Now we have much less utility and burst inside Turn 5 (the most important fight of the game until 2.2). We'll get by just fine, if for nothing less than Mage's Ballad for the WHM and Foe's Requiem for big snake. It's still a huge nerf that has really geared T5 groups in a situation where they're heavily considering cutting out BRD entirely, and will assuredly be testing BRDless teams.

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That's just crazy talk. Most SE did was make it so 2 BRDs will never be taken in on the same run. They nerfed our damage output and made it so LB gain is lowered if you have any doubles in classes, so there'll only be 1 BRD runs most likely. Also considering that we're the only class that can keep MP up on a WHM constantly, we're still needed for T5.

The nerfs were pretty minor. The ROD nerf had nothing to do with bards, but was in an attempt to make certain encounters harder (ie: twintanias death sentence, we also saw Virus get the same treatment.)

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Originally Posted by Someonewithclap

The nerfs were pretty minor. The ROD nerf had nothing to do with bards, but was in an attempt to make certain encounters harder (ie: twintanias death sentence, we also saw Virus get the same treatment.)

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Correction. The announced nerfs were minor. The ninja nerfs to two of our core damage abilities were anything but.
To clarify:
Blood Letter: from 150 potency down to 130 potency
Straight shot: from 140 potency down to 130 potency

The ninja nerfs were uncalled for in my opinion. I accepted the announced changed but this is a bit too much in my opinion.

As a fellow bard, I believe the nerfs were justified. The class was just too good with too many advantages. People were playing it, not because they liked it but because it was better than everything else by a large margin.

The ninja nerfs do not exist.

Let's not forget about the cross class skill changes too. They took away a lot of our damage output potential (considering I'd have to pop all my cooldowns to come close to grabbing agro in a single mob fight with a decent tank seems unnecessary). Which I wouldn't mind if they were attempting to make bards focus more on support. But gimping some of our support abilities too? That makes no sense. Pick ONE thing to change. And considering that you can't be a source of continual support, it's nice to be able to do damage. But now our only source of support is our songs (which drains our mp and can only be used once during any boss fight) bards are a lot less useful. Maybe add more songs? Like upping healing power by even 5 percent could be a nice addition. Or making mobs more likely to recieve crits. Who knows. I'll still play bard.

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Originally Posted by NeruMew

Which translates into a minor "buff" since now you have those 200 TP to spare on abilities to do more damage :D

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Q.Q much? Deal with it!

My DPS had dropped pretty bad since patch. Even my FC mates commented on it while running Manor HM. It's pretty bad when they can tell a difference.

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Originally Posted by Arkghyom

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Originally Posted by NeruMew

Which translates into a minor "buff" since now you have those 200 TP to spare on abilities to do more damage :D

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Q.Q much? Deal with it!

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Shut up and lick my tears!

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Originally Posted by NeruMew

Shut up and lick my tears!

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*licks* so salty, I want more!

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Originally Posted by Grimner

Correction. The announced nerfs were minor. The ninja nerfs to two of our core damage abilities were anything but.
To clarify:
Blood Letter: from 150 potency down to 130 potency
Straight shot: from 140 potency down to 130 potency

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This is mistake in English tool tips. Japanese tool tip still have original numbers and many people have tested it and nothing has changed.

we did turn1-4 today i noticed that i did (As brd) less dmg than before....but the mnk , did way better dmg so ...what we lost was gained by the monk....

we probably are going to be BRDless next week ( for turn 1-4) , to see how faster we clean it. healers aren having mp problems in those turns

*Turn 2 is silenced by the 2 plds

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

we did turn1-4 today i noticed that i did (As brd) less dmg than before....but the mnk , did way better dmg so ...what we lost was gained by the monk....

we probably are going to be BRDless next week ( for turn 1-4) , to see how faster we clean it. healers aren having mp problems in those turns

*Turn 2 is silenced by the 2 plds

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If they properly fixed latency, we shouldn't have issues with silencing anymore. From what I've played (only Ultima fight) new latency seems to work perfectly fine. We'll have to see though. (casts are still clunky, but atleast now you don't get hit by shit once you're out... though I noticed quite a huge fix to this a while ago, it was still rocky at times).