Are you upset about new features/changes in patch 2.1?

If so, this is a very special message written just for you.

http://i.imgur.com/5ntxV8f.jpg

Now you may stop getting mad at video games.

condescending much? ugh

Well, yes, but no more than many of these other posts are overly reactionary and poorly thought-out.

See, here's the thing.

It's okay to feel like a change to the game isn't for the better, or needs to be tweaked somewhat for it to really be as enjoyable as the devs seem to feel it should be.

But so much of what's here isn't constructive. This game is new, it's not going anywhere anytime soon, this is the first content patch of many, and there's a general feeling here that it's the very end of the world.

Better to be passionate and upset about something than simply to not care, because that would mean the game hasn't felt compelling enough to care about. However, people should stop raging and threatening to quit. No one responds well to that and you'll give yourself an ulcer. And it makes this forum look terrible.


Edit: Apparently I've burned all my posts for the day. Replies to the below. v v v v v

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Originally Posted by TrystWildkey

There are actually quite a few well thought out and well stated posts regarding the changes that many are upset about.

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Are there? The majority of posts contain some kind of implicit or explicit threat to quit because of change A, B, etc.

One sorta-reasonable thing seems to be that one about slicing off a zero for company housing, 'cause that guy wrote it up well and constructively.

But then there's a lot of this kind of thing.

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Originally Posted by Nuinn

*hands Mahri a note with ~whatever~ on it*

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<3


The difference is ultimately this: Are you (the poster) really, truly upset about something? Or do you just not like it? How is this affecting you emotionally? Just like the silly cartoon says, it's okay to not like something. It's what you do with that feeling that matters. Raging and threatening to quit about it rarely helps.

Can't discuss much more anyway, thanks to posting limits, but I kinda love this game, and so do many people here, I suspect. The venom gets contagious (and I suppose this isn't the most constructive thread either :P ), but everyone really should bear that in mind.

There are actually quite a few well thought out and well stated posts regarding the changes that many are upset about.

That short comic made me chuckle :3

*hands Mahri a note with ~whatever~ on it*

I'm frustrated, discouraged and sad.

This isn't game breaking, yet, and I haven't threatened to leave, but it is very discouraging and makes me want to play less. When I look at the amount of gil I've been able to save up, and look at what I could realistically craft and/or sell, when compared to the price of housing, it's less than a drop in the ocean. I just hit 50 on my main class tonight, a few minutes ago. It took me from phase 4 to now to get to 50. (If you look at my lodestone, mnk was from 1.0 and I haven't played it in 2.0). My husband and I met in FFXI and have wanted shared housing since then. We made our own FC with the intention of having shared housing.

Prices on the cheapest server would not be that far out of our reach for a small house. But we're on the server with the MOST expensive prices. Even the smallest house at the steepest discount is 20 million. So, it's another part of the game that I won't see for 6 or more months when things are changed.

There's just so much content that I'm gated out of, previously due to skill level/time investment needed, and now gated by gil. It's making it harder for me to find reasons to log in and do anything.

im more amused than anything just by how god damn backwards this company and this games producer is. they spent a VEEERY long time hyping and deveoping these features. features which can now be used by a 5% of the population (if that).

our sub money is being well spent ladies and gentlemen.

i for one just plan to sit back and enjoy the circus.

I think the dis-satisfaction is quite relevant and true.

This patch isn't even new content, its content that was supposed to be in game at launch.

That being said, if your doing Coil you're geared to the point that almost everything in the patch other then Hard Primals, PvP, the new Ultima fight, and treasure hunting, are worthless.

Crystal tower isn't even worth it with a 1 week loot lockout. You can gear quicker farming mytho at a 450 cap and running Coil, making CT worthless.

So you could say most legacy server people are still going to be twiddling their thumbs with not much to do other then Coil. FC housing is a rip as well, gonna end up as nothing but an RMT nightmare, due to the knife SE tossed with such absurd prices. People expected high prices for housing, not absurd prices.

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Originally Posted by razzgrizz3

im more amused than anything just by how god damn backwards this company and this games producer is. they spent a VEEERY long time hyping and deveoping these features. features which can now be used by a 5% of the population (if that).

our sub money is being well spent ladies and gentlemen.

i for one just plan to sit back and enjoy the circus.

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Yep dem subs gonna drop. Drop em like they hot.

I usually don't mind nerfs. But some of it is ridiculous. I hope they didn't expect BRD to go into coil and be expected tokeep the 10% evasion down on a mob for any effective amount of time(200 tp for 10% evasion). Not to mention, I don't see why anyone would go into coil without hitting the acc cap in the first place. I very rarely see acc as an issue, ever.

CT loot lockout is ridiculous as well. Not because the amount of loot one can obtain, but simply the fact that you can outgear it in about 3 weeks if you get a drop or two in coil. Sure, you can gear up in DL, but if coil's minimum requirement to get in is full DL and relic, CT just becomes a time sync for most likely very minor stat boost. I guess you could say gear an alt, but having gear that's locked like coil? Not only that, loot gets dropped to the ground if you have already lotted and won something. What if the whole pt has done so? There would be no incentive to stay in. I can almost guarantee that after a couple of weeks, you will see people lotting, winning, and dropping pt midway through. 30 minute timer is nothing to most people. Or they can just go afk and have the pt boot the person.

I'm looking forward to new features and changes in patch 2.1. ^_^

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Originally Posted by Luso

I'm looking forward to new features and changes in patch 2.1. ^_^

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BURN IT!!! BURN the BARD with FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bards didn't even get nerf'd lol. At least they could have nerf'd your enmity spike damage, cause it can be annoying when tanking.

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Originally Posted by Maddox

BURN IT!!! BURN the BARD with FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bards didn't even get nerf'd lol. At least they could have nerf'd your enmity spike damage, cause it can be annoying when tanking.

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They did. 10% evasion debuff for 200 tp for a few seconds is worthless unless you are undergeared. Although this may be a move to create a pure support role.

I play Monk and am not worried about whether my fc will get a large land plot so.. even if some small thing in this patch could upset me. the patch as a whole makes me pleased.

I think the biggest mistake SE made is that they think the big spenders will dedicate almost all of their fortune to a FC house and not wait for personal housing. The process of gaining that wealth was a solo process and at the moment it's not really possible to make that sort of money again, so people are going to think about how much they want to give to a FC they may or may not stay in.

SE got too greedy in trying to gold sink the most wealthy people, top crafters I know were willing to give a lot but have tightened their wallet in response to this. Considering the effect this demand is going to have on the RMT trade, there are going to be more tempting options for the most wealthy players in the coming weeks than a FC house.

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Originally Posted by C-croft

They did. 10% evasion debuff for 200 tp for a few seconds is worthless unless you are undergeared. Although this may be a move to create a pure support role.

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Not to seem nasty but you cant even call that a nerf from the nerf bat. More like a pin prick in the pinky so you draw your arrows sorta crooked.

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Originally Posted by Maddox

Not to seem nasty but you cant even call that a nerf from the nerf bat. More like a pin prick in the pinky so you draw your arrows sorta crooked.

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LOL I like your optimism. First full smile from the forums since this morning. The internal release and BfB nerf doesn't help either. BRDs did get one buff though. 100% accuracy on Hawk eye! Because accuracy is always an issue...... -.-

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Originally Posted by SarcasmMisser

I think the biggest mistake SE made is that they think the big spenders will dedicate almost all of their fortune to a FC house and not wait for personal housing. The process of gaining that wealth was a solo process and at the moment it's not really possible to make that sort of money again, so people are going to think about how much they want to give to a FC they may or may not stay in.

SE got too greedy in trying to gold sink the most wealthy people, top crafters I know were willing to give a lot but have tightened their wallet in response to this. Considering the effect this demand is going to have on the RMT trade, there are going to be more tempting options for the most wealthy players in the coming weeks than a FC house.

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You're confusing FC housing with personal housing, FC housing is typically funded by the entire FC as a collective whole and the size of FC housing reflects either the number of active players in the FC or the relative wealth of the active members in the FC, FC housing is rather different from personal housing and also taking into account the sharing of costs, makes FC housing relatively affordable to the individual.

Alot of issue occurs when it is only a small percentage of FC members who are contributing to purchase FC housing land, this without a doubt places great financial burden on those few who are shouldering the cost of FC housing but truth be told, that isn't the spirit of FC housing as it is meant to be a collective effort.

Huh, I didn't confuse them at all. I am saying that lots of people will ignore FC housing because what incentive is there for them to dedicate their personal wealth to this, the pricing is definitely there to fleece the most wealthy players but really it's just giving them incentive to ignore FC housing and wait for personal housing.

Also this is part of a bigger problem in that big FCs aren't that cohesive, due to a lack of content needing that many players. You're from the same server as me, on tonberry many of the largest FCs have had splits already, and very wealthy players aren't very attached to their FC. I don't see many wealthy people willing to fork over the gil needed for FC housing, which is what square seems to want them to do.

All the 2.1 stuffs seems fine to be except for the fact that Housing is way more expensive than expected. I remember they were saying a small house would be around 800k, so I was expecting maybe 1m or two but the prices went far too high.

Either way, i'm asking for my donation back. 90% of my wealth was from 1.0, and even that only amounted to a scant 200k before I decided SE had screwed the pooch and went to play other games without any kind of regret.

Since coming back, I've barely made half that, and almost everyone within my FC considers 100k to be a 'lot of money'. We scraped together 1.4 million figuring that the housing would be in the 1-5M range.. instead, we're slapped with a 20M pricetag for the smallest (which we more or less planned on) and I think all bets (and donations) are off for the effort.

2.1: Homless for Christmas Patch ftw!

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Originally Posted by Ronyx

All the 2.1 stuffs seems fine to be except for the fact that Housing is way more expensive than expected. I remember they were saying a small house would be around 800k, so I was expecting maybe 1m or two but the prices went far too high.

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That was perhaps for personal housing, FC housing IMO should certainly be priced at a significantly higher price due to the availability of resource pooling from FC members

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Originally Posted by C-croft

LOL I like your optimism. First full smile from the forums since this morning. The internal release and BfB nerf doesn't help either. BRDs did get one buff though. 100% accuracy on Hawk eye! Because accuracy is always an issue...... -.-

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/bow, thank yee always glad to be of service. 8)

I said this in an earlier post(s), but this seems like an appropriate place to reiterate the sentiments I have.

With all the dungeon/token farming, recycled content being "remixed" as new, dungeon lock outs, and now item lock outs in CT; I feel like I'm playing a F2P MMO again. This is all stuff you see hidden behind pay walls in a F2P game, or to be onerous enough to encourage you to get a "gold" subscription to a game.

Except I'm already paying to play this game. And content is constantly being withheld. And it's being withheld for no reason other than to tease out it's longevity. That can't last. Just feeding us the same bosses over and over again, or by "balancing" difficulty by reducing the effectiveness of the classes, or just making goals exceedingly expensive in both gil and time consumption to reach isn't going to maintain a player base.

I'm not quitting. I'm tired of trying to find my 'next' MMO to play. I'm just super unhappy with the game, it's direction, and the apparent lack of both inspiration from the team and appreciation of their existing player base.

And just a short P.S., I'm not asking for easier content. I'm not asking to be handed anything. I want to play through difficult dungeons, that require team work and coordination, that require time and effort to learn and master, and ultimately have rewards that warrant the work. This isn't what's happening.

Edit; I'm honestly feeling agitated by this whole thing, so I'm going to vent more.

Why should I be excited about the addition of Crystal Tower, when I'm already being told I won't have any incentive to play it more than once a week?

Edit; Why should I be excited about two remixed lower level dungeons?

Why should I be excited about three recycled primal fights, which are already recycled once before?

Why should I be excited about PvP, when your PvE content is so unbalanced that you rely on 'step out of the circle or you'll die' for every major encounter in lieu of interesting mechanics?

Why should I be excited about FC housing, the thing you've been babbling about since you took over 1.0, when even with price cuts it'll still be a pipe dream for most groups?

I understand you're adding new story content. And that is exciting, in various ways. But I'm already level 50 and your story isn't that compelling, by my own standards of course. So where will my sense of forward progression come from? An achievement? A title?

This doesn't even deserve a "try harder".

Just start trying. Period. Seriously.

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Originally Posted by C-croft

There would be no incentive to stay in. I can almost guarantee that after a couple of weeks, you will see people lotting, winning, and dropping pt midway through. 30 minute timer is nothing to most people. Or they can just go afk and have the pt boot the person.

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I think the misconception people are having is the gear isn't going to drop per boss but at the completion of CT so everyone will stay til the end for their chance at loot.

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Originally Posted by redisdrunk

Why should I be excited about two recycled lower level dungeons?

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These aren't going to just be recycled they are new maps and new sets of monsters to fight and different bosses to fight. This isn't WoW style ramped up level difficulty and fight same bosses and monsters.

They even added a storyline into why your going in there again.

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Originally Posted by RynaultB

I think the misconception people are having is the gear isn't going to drop per boss but at the completion of CT so everyone will stay til the end for their chance at loot.

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Unless noted or stated otherwise the following implies stages of dungeon with loot per stage. Why would time expire during a run? AND you lose rights to all remaining items for the dungeon. Also, please remember to pass each drop if you don't want it.

Rewards in the Crystal Tower
You can receive only one reward item per week for completing duties in the Cystal Tower.In the event you are awarded an item from the loot list, you relinquish your right to vie for all remaining items regardless of whether you selected Need or Greed.In the event the time permitted in the instanced dungeon has expired, and a reward item is obtained automatically, this will also count toward the weekly one-reward limit.
* Reward eligibility is reset every Tuesday at midnight (JST).


EDIT: Just read Reinhart's transalation. Yoshi states after each boss, 3 chest spawn. 4 bosses, for a total of 12 chests. Each group gets their own. If everyone got their lots in the first 3.....

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Originally Posted by C-croft

EDIT: Just read Reinhart's transalation. Yoshi states after each boss, 3 chest spawn. 4 bosses, for a total of 12 chests. Each group gets their own. If everyone got their lots in the first 3.....

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And there's my misconception.

Previously they had made it sound like chests would drop at the end of the entire raid. But now that they've cleared it up, yes I can see people dropping like flies once they get their weekly allowance.

Thanks for that valuable info.

I think they are shooting themselves in the foot with this patch in the 2 biggest things that most were anticipating.

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Originally Posted by Maddox

BURN IT!!! BURN the BARD with FIRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Bards didn't even get nerf'd lol. At least they could have nerf'd your enmity spike damage, cause it can be annoying when tanking.

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Holy Shit, you're still around. I thought you left after creating that Goodbye thread. Just can't let go huh?

Aw, crap. I look away for a few hours and more people actually started responding to this thread. >_>

Now it's the next day since I had to wait to get to post again. But, I'm gonna try and put my money where my mouth is...

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Originally Posted by redisdrunk

I said this in an earlier post(s), but this seems like an appropriate place to reiterate the sentiments I have.

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...and your post, Redisdrunk, seems to encapsulate many of the biggest issues, save for misc. job nerfs/buffs which are rustling a whole different set of jimmies. I'm no pro, but I'll give this a shot. So! Here is why these things might all be okay.

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Originally Posted by redisdrunk

Why should I be excited about the addition of Crystal Tower, when I'm already being told I won't have any incentive to play it more than once a week?

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If you're a newcomer to MMOs (not saying you are, yourself) this one probably seems really bizarre. This, however, is a very standard way of pacing out raid progress. WoW (the most common comparison) has been doing this for years. The truth is, you seriously aren't meant to run this more than once a week, at least as it's currently designed. The intent is that a raid group gets together once weekly (or more, depending on how long it takes to clear) and gives it a solid shot, and loot rewards may ensue -- but never a full set of gear, and you only get your one chance.

The purpose of this is literally to keep crazier players from just hammering it, maxing out everyone's gear in a day, and then having absolutely no further content to try for however many months until the next patch. This would be really bad for the longevity of MMOs, and would only encourage hardcore raiders to leave. They're not a huge percentage of the playerbase, but anyone who designs these things wants to keep them around, as they often generate some fairly important feedback. Lockouts aren't the most graceful solution, but so far, no one has really found anything better.

My prediction: Once Crystal Tower is no longer "current" content, they're either going to change the loot lockout to per-job rather than per-character (which honestly wouldn't hurt if they just did that now, since with the existence of Binding Coil and Extreme Primals it's debatably not going to be "current"), or even get rid of them entirely. This would make it easier for anyone just starting to raid to gear up fast.

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Originally Posted by redisdrunk

Edit; Why should I be excited about two remixed lower level dungeons?

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When you say "remixed", you may not quite realize what it implies, and how this is actually a positive thing. The environment is recycled, but they're putting in an entirely new story and series of encounters. This is actually much different from, say, WoW's "heroic" dungeons, which are almost entirely identical to their lower-level counterparts, but with bigger HP. If that sounds dull, that's because it is. The ones we're getting here do not sound dull.

Also, if the fact that the Ultima Weapon redux is presented in-universe as some chucklehead's hilariously exaggerated retelling of your own deeds isn't enough to completely justify its existence, I dunno what to tell ya. That's the funniest story explanation for a common MMO contrivance I've ever heard.

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Originally Posted by redisdrunk

Why should I be excited about three recycled primal fights, which are already recycled once before?

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Maybe these aren't your thing, but the extreme-mode Primals were planned from the start and very clearly aimed at the craziest people who play. 90% of the audience isn't gonna touch these, but they'll give the top-end raiders something to chew on. Everyone else may safely ignore them.

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Originally Posted by redisdrunk

Why should I be excited about PvP, when your PvE content is so unbalanced that you rely on 'step out of the circle or you'll die' for every major encounter in lieu of interesting mechanics?

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If you are worried that PvP is going to be imbalanced, guess what, you are absolutely 100% correct. It's going to be ridiculous. It's going to be broken. It's going to be ludicrously lopsided and unfair.

But, that's okay!

Because it's PvP in a PvE game. Unless an MMO has been designed with it as a core component (and that does not include World of Warcraft, however the arena enthusiasts and gankers might insist upon it), it's never going to be quite right...but, most of the major problems will probably be ironed out relatively quickly.

No one should go into the Wolves' Den expecting a remotely fair fight at first. It's probably going to take months of very careful observation by the devs and tons of feedback from players before it's on somewhat level ground.

PvP can be tons of fun, but in a game not fully designed for it out the gate, it should be taken with a grain of salt. Do not waste your anger on it. Embrace the nonsense and be at peace as you own/get owned.

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Originally Posted by redisdrunk

Why should I be excited about FC housing, the thing you've been babbling about since you took over 1.0, when even with price cuts it'll still be a pipe dream for most groups?

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So, my FC, which is sorta modest-sized but generally cohesive, has about...700k saved up. >_> We're a little disappointed, but strangely none of us seem to have been too surprised by the high price point for company housing (But Square, if you are reading this: We will gladly settle for a beach umbrella, a few towels, and moogles serving margaritas.)

It's gonna take a while for the housing market to settle, and the first buyers are inevitably going to be paying the most. Anyone familiar with these kinds of economics probably saw it coming, and were probably as mystified as I was that Square-Enix chose to really hype this up, as it will be out of reach for most people at first.

I'm not an expert on virtual economies, so I can't predict how this will pan out, but I have a gut feeling it's not going to be as bad as it looks, at least after some time has passed. If nothing else, remember that right now this is company housing. Individual player housing is probably going to have far smaller prices. It's probably safe to say that anyone playing right now will have a great deal extra gil once that actually comes out, assuming they're playing steadily, but that's just speculation.

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Originally Posted by redisdrunk

I understand you're adding new story content. And that is exciting, in various ways. But I'm already level 50 and your story isn't that compelling, by my own standards of course. So where will my sense of forward progression come from? An achievement? A title?

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I disagree that the story isn't compelling, but not everyone views it from the same angle. What I've seen of it so far has exceeded expectations, and I personally am stoked that they're going to just keep rolling out more of it.

Much like things like airships, chocobos, retainers, special mounts, etc. have come along as story rewards, they'll probably have more of these to encourage less story-focused people to keep up with it. Hell, this might actually be the way they introduce individual housing for players.

Far, far different than most MMOs, the story here is obviously meant to be a centerpiece, if not the centerpiece, and the benefits to players for following it should be accordingly extravagant. Will they be? Hell if I know. I hope so, and they probably won't please everyone no matter how amazing, but eh. Some people are gonna get upset -- like, truly and honestly teeth-grindingly angry -- by things no matter what.

But they shouldn't, 'cause you shouldn't get mad at video games.

If there is one absolute promise I can give, it's that half a year from now, all of this will be taken for granted as just another part of the game. FFXIV isn't going away for a very long time.

Are you upset about people upset about new features/changes in patch 2.1?

If so, this is a very special message written just for you.

http://i.imgur.com/5ntxV8f.jpg

Now you may stop getting mad at forum posts.



Now you quote me and add another "upset about people" and the circle of hypocrisy can be continued!!

I was disappoint at first.

then I read. . .

The Add to Blacklist option has been added to the character name subcommands available from the chat log.

Now everything is K.

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Originally Posted by Mahri

An extremely well thought out and written reply to my post.

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I'm no newcomer, for sure. I've been around since UO. Where housing was a whole different hilarious sort of mini-game, which this makes me almost long for. At least then you could leave a dragon on a bad neighbors doorstep.

I appreciate the time, effort, and clarity in which you responded to my post. You did make make me think on some things. My opinion hasn't changed, but I certainly see where your perspective and that of some others may be coming from a bit clearer now.

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Originally Posted by redisdrunk

I'm no newcomer, for sure. I've been around since UO. Where housing was a whole different hilarious sort of mini-game, which this makes me almost long for. At least then you could leave a dragon on a bad neighbors doorstep.

I appreciate the time, effort, and clarity in which you responded to my post. You did make make me think on some things. My opinion hasn't changed, but I certainly see where your perspective and that of some others may be coming from a bit clearer now.

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Totally welcome, and very glad to hear that I was able to give a decent response to this.

And yeah, I'm hoping that when housing for individual players comes around, there's some way to get up to shenanigans regarding other peoples' property. Like dropping random ores on your neighbor's lawn and them coming home to find a bunch of spriggans bouncing around there.

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Originally Posted by sayuu

I was disappoint at first.

then I read. . .

The Add to Blacklist option has been added to the character name subcommands available from the chat log.

Now everything is K.

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YES, THANK YOU, OH GOD

Now they just need to add a "report" option for those spammers the same way WoW has. If it works like the one there, it tracks specific numbers for how often someone is reported, and if it hits a certain (invisible) threshold they might even get auto-kicked from the game and have their account locked. So long as they're judicious about what that threshold is (like, 30-50+ reports in the span of two minutes or so), it's unlikely to be abused by anyone, but very likely still to shut spammers up fast.