Does everyone expect a speed run of WP?

Hi - fairly new tank here. I have a bard @50 relic, but I enjoy tanking ever since being a NIN in FFXI. Here, however, mobs come in packs of 3 instead of 1, and also aggro is harder to hold. I usually don't have issues holding hate, but on almost every WP I have tried, I get placed with dps with relic/+1 who want to speed run the dungeon, even though I'm only outfitted with i55 WP gear and Ifrit's sword. Is this going to be the trend in all DF groups?

It is to the point that I don't even queue up for WP unless it is with my LS or FC, since they let me take the time I need to mark and/or set my own pace that I'm comfortable with tanking. Sure, it is slower - but I think it is better than us all wiping b/c I can't handle pulling 3-4 groups at once with no DL gear on at all...Thoughts?

Fun fact:

I believe NIN was originally intended to be a DD in XI...not a tank. I mean, in real life, what NIN takes the full frontal damage?

Anyway, there's going to be some changes to the DF that will let people choose whether they're looking for "Speed runs" or "Story runs"

Also, it'd be good for you to get more darklight gear. I recommend some more castrum / praetorium runs...

I suggest going to RT and shouting to create a group while specifying that it is not a speedrun. I do this to get non-speedrun tanks and healers for my BLM.

If you're joining groups in Revenant's Toll then it's probably for a speed run. Grouping via the Duty Finder there should be no other expectations except a normal run.

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Originally Posted by Rex

Fun fact:

I believe NIN was originally intended to be a DD in XI...not a tank. I mean, in real life, what NIN takes the full frontal damage?
...

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Not a DD, but front lines support, all the debuffs of a RDM and the elemental wheel debuffs, but able to stand in front w/o people saying "Mage get to back ..."
Then someone said, "Oh wait, if I don't take damage why don't I tank?"
The incredibly rapid decent of Nin from useful support with meh damage to full-time tank with meh damage.
But yeah, not unlike gear swapping in XI, Nin was not played as intended. Utsusemi was just too powerful, and even after a couple nerfs to it it stayed a tanking must, and even a DD must for many classes.

On the point now, if your going through DF, your the tank, tell em your not doing SR they can't do it without you anyway. In DF people shouldn't really "expect" to get a SR everytime anyway, if the tank isn't relic it shouldn't even be a question.

I don't expect a speedrun in DF, nor do I want one, but I'd like to be done with one run in less than 40 minutes. And a lot of DFs I joined can't even do that ><

Your the tank... You set the pace and thats the ways it is... If someone doesn't like it they can leave... I run DF all the time sometimes I get speed runners sometimes I get normals... I get some people that like skipping mobs and other that like fighting them... I keep the people alive to the best of my ability but if they pull too much thats their issue when they die...

Well, I don't know about WP, but I'm going to guess that one thing from the early dungeons would hold true throughout the rest — that taking things at a pace the tank can sustain and advancing gradually through a dungeon will end up coming out faster (and certainly less frustrating) in the end than rushing ahead just to pull too many mobs and wipe repeatedly. Trying to speedrun with a group that's not geared and ready for a speedrun (or just not unanimous in wanting one) is foolish.

I don't expect it at all. Of course if people in the party want to, I'll do it as well but otherwise I don't mention anything and assume it's a speed run until the first mob indicates it isn't.

Remember, DPS is replaceable, tanks are not!

If they end up pulling mobs themselves, they can tank it themselves. That's what I would do.

But back to OP's point. No, I do not think there is an expectation of speed run in DF, at least that is not what I as a tank is expecting. Only time I would ever expect a speed run is if I see a relic whm + relic blm, then I will ask if they want a speed run.

Ah thanks for the replies, all. I think I just get frustrated joining a DF party and having everyone either run ahead and pull more groups than I want, or complain to me that we're going too slow. I did Ifrit about 30 times until I got the sword, but it has seemed to help only marginally. I don't really have aggro issues as I just end up spamming flash and using a ROH combo while tabbing through trash packs, but it is a lot more stressful to me than going at my own pace. Worse are the ones that don't talk at all the entire time until we beat the dungeon and then say things like 'learn to pull faster' and such :/ makes me want to just finish gearing my bard and pewpewing all day (if that's even a word...). Oh, and even at the pace I like, we keep plenty ahead of the wandering big Tonberries -- as long as we have enough dps.

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

Worse are the ones that don't talk at all the entire time until we beat the dungeon and then say things like 'learn to pull faster' and such :/

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They didn't say anything because they don't want you to leave midway and left them stranded. Personally, they could have just asked and accept whatever reply you give them. Afterall, that's the whole purpose of "Asking".

I'm both a tank and a healer. My healer can do 13 min SR's so pretty well geared.
Tank is decent geared by not that good.

Everyone plays a roll in whether a speed run will go off well or not. Tank that can handle it...healer that can heal it and dps that can AoE.
If you don't have strong AoE, tanks going to go OOM and won't be able to hold threat. Healer is going to go OOM and tank will die.

Ultimately it's the tank that sets the pace. I love DF because I actually enjoy a slowed down run through WP sometimes. I've never once joined and been like...>WTF tank pull faster or i'm leaving. If the tank can't handle then they cant or wont.

Don't forget you got the insta-queue. DPS wants to bail? Cya have fun sitting in queue.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

If you're joining groups in Revenant's Toll then it's probably for a speed run. Grouping via the Duty Finder there should be no other expectations except a normal run.

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This SHOULD be true, but I've had several people curse me out for not speed running or dps taking over as tank because I refuse to speed run. Speed running is fracking hard as a WAR and I end up dead a lot because the healer can't keep up.

People should stop expecting speed runs from DF when, most of the time, your group is made up of 1-2 people who have never done WP before.

As a pld, I am interested in going as fast as possible, based on the capabilities of the party, and I will push them as hard as I think they can handle, often more than they themselves are comfortable with.

At the end of many runs like this, I have gotten thank you messages by the healer, because they had a solid chance to realize their potential in the run.

Due to the way WP is set up (at least 2 sections of the dungeon are a race to get through before the Tonberry Stalker catches you), a lot of people, even newer players, expect some level of speed in WP once you get going.

If you're in a PUG, it can't be helped.

If you're looking for a group to run with, you can try to ask for a group to move through it slower. Worse comes to worst, you can always wait until 2.1, then use that new Party Finder to get a more conveniently paced party for you.

I don't ever expect speed runs when using the DF. But, I do expect the tank to move at a reasonable pace, staying ahead of the stalker(always) and pulling the stranglers(the few mobs that are by themselves) to the next group, when they are with 2 AoE DPS.

Most of the time, I play with my FC. On the rare occasions when I am using DF, I do not expect anything. I watch the other players and try to adjust to their speed and behaviour. As a BLM, I also ask the Tank before we start how he wants me to behave. I can do quick AOE damage or I can sleep a lot of enemies while the group focus on one and the same target. Both methods work, the bombing one is a bit faster. But it is all a matter of convinience as far as I am concerned. If I see a tank in job gear or ilvl 55 gear, I am not even trying to do AOE damage because I know he will have a hard time keeping Aggro on enemies. And yes, there are some Relic+1 and full DL/Myth gear players who try to act like they superior and start yelling at tanks with lower gear although it is clear that they are stealing the aggro because of the base damage they are doing. Just ignore this type of player and move on to the next group.

And the few attempts to speed run WP/AK I was part of in a public party ended most of the time in a complete desaster wipe lol. This is something for a group where the players know each other or where EVERYBODY in the group is experienced. When people ask for Speed runs in DF, i instantly start laughing and get my popcorn out for further entertainment. DF can be fun, never take things happening there too seriously. What happens in DF, stays in DF. :P

I'm a Scholar, and while I'm certainly geared enough for speed runs and have enough experience and familiarity with my abilities to handle speed runs, I still dislike them and prefer a nice steady approach to things. I'm a pretty laid-back sort of person, and a "rush rush GO GO GO" approach can be stressful to me. I figure it's up to the tank to decide how he or she wants to handle things, but speed runs shouldn't be done without a certain amount of communication. That is, if you're a tank and plan to speed run, you talk to us so we can plan accordingly. Otherwise I expect a Duty Finder run to be a normal dungeon run.

Besides, it's not like I'm sitting around twiddling my thumbs in a normal run. I'm in Cleric Stance, managing Selene, spewing out DoTs on All Of The Things and the occasional AwesomeBubble or Lustrate.

I prefer brisk walks honestly. Speed running takes a lot of energy; would much rather not work so hard at it but let good gear push things along when available. Given how few runs it takes to max tomestones for week there isn't any reason to get all stressed over it.

I always expect speed runs... Then when it turns out it not... Thank god lol as long as it's not over 35-40 mins I'm fine. :P

Thanks again for the input, all -- I suppose that if I do use the DF I ought to just make clear it is not a speed run and if they don't like it then it just isn't going to work and I'll leave so they can get someone faster. My WP times are usually around 25-30 mins, given good dps, and shorter if I get in groups with relic/+1 people. Like I mentioned, my groups are always far enough ahead of the wanderers to not get caught, so that isn't really an issue. I think the general consensus should be as others have stated here -- if it is DF, don't ever expect a speed run of any sort and don't be disappointed when you don't get one.

I also think I am too used to the dps mentality (having waited hours on my bard for runs) and never think that the group actually needs me when I'm tanking >.> <.<

Sadly OP, it seems to be the trend. I have all together stopped playing my main(whm) because every i DF, a tank seems my Relic +1 and materia'd Vanya and Astral gear, and assumes i want a SR. SO i created an alt character, leveling her through the story, hopping on my main every now and then to help an FC member or friend through some comtent on my WHM or level 41 PLD as i wait for more friends and FC members to get to 50 so none of us have that headache.

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Originally Posted by Xakthos

I prefer brisk walks honestly. Speed running takes a lot of energy; would much rather not work so hard at it but let good gear push things along when available. Given how few runs it takes to max tomestones for week there isn't any reason to get all stressed over it.

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it takes 10 runs a week in WP(not counting coil where you get 50)

Monday: SR 150 minutes of WP, Run coil if thats your thing
Tuesday-Sunday: Cry in the forum that the game has no content and sucks and everything needs to be unlocked and raised

*rolls eyes*

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Originally Posted by Seezur_Undies

it takes 10 runs a week in WP(not counting coil where you get 50)

Monday: SR 150 minutes of WP, Run coil if thats your thing
Tuesday-Sunday: Cry in the forum that the game has no content and sucks and everything needs to be unlocked and raised

*rolls eyes*

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Precisely my point. Doing the work to do it in 15 minutes is really just annoying. Strolling through at around 20-25 makes it less annoying and more casual. Personally I tend to split it up to a Monday/Tuesday combo (I'm lazy at heart) and do other stuff rest of week. I rather the system currently to be honest. No sense in working hard at it if you don't have to.

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

Thanks again for the input, all -- I suppose that if I do use the DF I ought to just make clear it is not a speed run and if they don't like it then it just isn't going to work and I'll leave so they can get someone faster.

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I pretty much always play tank and now you got the right idea. You are the tank and you set the pace. Most people in DF expects the tank to 'lead' and you do that by communicating (not ordering) and adapting the pace to the group you have. If players know what to expect from you and the run, you'll find that the frustration level goes down and teamwork goes up compared with you saying nothing at all before someone from the group complains.

Unless of course everyone is all +1 (Zenith now) and ran WP so much their eyes bleed from it. In that case no words are necessary lol.

Tanking is my main role I love to play. I love keeping track of the aggro bar, the surrounding area for danger, and equalizing my emnity on the monsters i've pulled to make a run as efficient as possible. Recently though, i've started to hate it.

I don't like tanking anymore because all people want is to speedrun. Speedrun Speedrun Speedrun. I'm a very laid-back person so I prefer the standard 30min runs I do. I don't think I'm a bad tank. I keep aggro on monsters all the time. Throw down my damage mitigation abilities when necessary. I just don't like being pushed all the time.

One time I had this awful WP experience where a BLM kept pushing me and insulting me because I was doing a standard run. The healer and other dps was fine with it, but he kept running ahead and pulling monsters. He got us killed three times. He said to "stop pussyfooting". (not sure what he meant, as my pulls are usually 3-5 mobs) Eventually he left and another dps came. We finished the WP run tons of time lost. (more than a standard) I can't stand those type of people.

If they want speedruns, just shout for them in Mor Dhona and leave the DF for the standard runs. I only tank non-lv50 content now-a-days. (of course, with 2.1 I won't have to deal with these people ever again)

Personally, I have two expectations when I DF any content:

1) I expect that I cannot expect a speed run.
2) I expect that I will be waiting for people to watch cutscenes.

I go into DF with these two expectations every time, whether I'm playing a 350 main stat character or a 500 main stat character. If I want a speed run, it's my responsibility to make or find a party with that goal in mind; not to thrust my wants on the people the system matches me with.