Hi, here am I again with another one of my ideas. This is simply what I hope becomes of Musketeer. I realize it's already in development and that none of this may be close in the slightest but it is what I would like to see. It's also how I would like to see Chemist and Corsair brought in as they were both gunslingers in the past.
KEY:
(A) = ability off GCD, (S) = skill on GCD
(editing)
Concept: The Musketeer (MSK) is a dual-wielding pistol shooter. They have some abilities for self-preservation that can be weakly applied to nearby party members via the First Aid skill. A major overhaul has been done to the attacks to abolish a combo system in favor of one where any order of attacks can be used with their effects changing depending on the attacks used prior. This is done via the card system (which also has undergone changes). Only one Active Card can be present and will be overwritten by other attacks that draw cards.Quote:
Musketeer: They use dual pistols to deal damage from afar. This is done similar to MNK with only equipping one weapon but displays in both hands. Access to healer LB.
Abilities:
1: Split Shot: (S) Delivers a ranged attack with a potency of 110. Active Card: 60% chance of red, 30% chance of yellow, 10% chance of black. TP Cost: 60 Throw Items: The target of your target will receive a 200 potency heal over time (9s). Upon wearing off the recipient cannot be applied with Split Shot for 10s.
2: Stash: (A) Consumes all current TP to allow the stashing of 1 Potion, Hi-Potion, Ironhide Ungent, and Phoenix Down. Recast: 180s. Throw Items: Becomes "Forbidden Stash" which allows for additional items to be stashed as well as the stashing of Remedies, Mega-Potions and X-Potions. Recast: 60s.
2: Stashed Potion: (S) Restores HP with a potency of 380. Self-only. Consumes 1 Potion stash. Throw Items: Can be used on others. Cast Time: 2.5s. Range: 25y.
4: Hot shot: (S) Delivers a fire elemental ranged attack with a potency of 90. Card effect: R: applies a 35 potency burn (15s); Y: applies a 40 potency burn (15s); B: applies a 45 potency burn and blind (15s). Active Card: Red Card. TP Cost: 70.
6: First Aid: (A) Restores a party member's HP and MP with a potency of 400. Cannot be used on self. Range: 25y. Recast: 180s.
8: Stashed Ironhide Ungent: (S) Increases defense by 15% (20s). Self-Only. Stacks with Proshell. Throw Items: Increases duration to 30 minutes. Grants effect to party members within 15y. Is overwritten by and overwrites Proshell. Cast Time: 3s.
10: Rapid Shot: (A) Increases auto-attack speed by 50% (15s). Recast: 180s.
12: Last Stand: (S) Delivers a ranged attack with a potency of 150. Card effect: R: 200 potency; Y: 200 potency, 25% chance to critical hit; B: 200 potency and forced critical hit. Active Card: Yellow Card. TP Cost: 90
15: Numbing Shot: (A) Reduces your enmity on selected target. Card effect: R: 15% chance to paralyze target (10s); Y: 50% chance paralyze target(10s); B: paralyzes target (10s). Active Card: Black Card. Throw Items: Self-targeted, enmity accrued on all enemies is lowered. Recast: 180s.
18: Stashed Phoenix Down: (S) Revives target. Cannot be used in battle. Throw Items: Can be used in battle. Cast Time: 8s. Range:25y.
22: Slug Shot: (S) Delivers a ranged attack with a potency of 210. Card effect: R: 160 potency, 10% chance to give Quadruple Shot buff (15s); Y: 160 potency, 50% chance to give Quadruple Shot buff (15s); B: 200 potency and 80% chance to give quadruple shot buff (15s). Active Card: Yellow Card. TP Cost: 80. Recast: 60s.
26: Stashed Hi-Potion: (S) Restores HP with a potency of 620. Self-only. Throw Items: Can be used on others. Cast Time: 2.5s Range: 25y.
30: Sleep Shot: (A) Inflicts target with sleep (30s). Recast: 10s.
34: Sniper Shot: (A) Delivers an attack with a potency of 160. Card Effect: R: Increases critical hit damage by 10% (15s); Y: Increases critical hit rate by 10% (20s); B: Potency 200, Increases critical hit damage and rate by 10% (20s). Active Card: Red Card. TP Cost: 90.
38: Open Fire: (A) Delivers a ranged attack with a potency of 140. Add.Effect: stun (3s). Recast: 20s.
42: Drink: (A) Increases healing effect of stashed items and damage dealt by 20% (10s). Recast: 180s.
46: Quick Draw: (A) Increases Skill Speed by 50% (15s). Recast: 240s.
50: Detonator: (S) Delivers a ranged attack with a potency of 200. Card effect: R: Consumes burns and applies remaining damage; Y: Consumes burns and applies 1.5x remaining damage; B: Consumes burns and applies 2x remaining damage. Card Drawn: Black Card. TP Cost: 200. Recast:20s.
Cards:
Using your weapon skills will force you to draw an Active Card. Only one Active Card can be in use at any one time. New cards will overwrite old cards. If your Active Card is White due to the Corsair's Leaden Salute you will not have a card effect on your next weapon skill and will deal only the base damage/effect.
Traits:
8: Enhanced Dexterity: Increases Dexterity by 2.
14: Enhanced Dexterity II: Increases Dexterity by 4.
16: Enhanced Dexterity III: Increases Dexterity by 6.
20: Potent Potables: Stashed Items will heal for 5% more.
24: Focused Sniper Shot: Adds -25% INT enfeeblement on target to Sniper Shot (20s).
28: Ironwill Ungent: Stashed Ironhide Ungent will now also increase magic defense by 15%.
32: Every Last Drop: If HP is topped off via a Stashed [Item] the overhealed amount is distributed amongst party members within 8y of the target. Members with a greater difference from max HP lost will be prioritized.
36: Enhanced Numbing Shot: Recast lowered to 120s.
40: Second-to-Last Stand: Grants a 50% chance that it will hit twice.
44: Potent Potables II: Stashed items will heal for 10% more.
48: Strong Drink: Recast reduced to 90s.
A lot of their attacks are enhanced with a chance to deal additional hits or spread out damage. Their most unique ability is the Stash command. Upon using the Stash ability they will receive 1 charge of each of their available "Stash [item]" abilities. This prevents the MSK and COR from being able to heal themselves too much/often. The ability is enhanced for Chemist but more on that below. They wear current ARC/BRD gear as their main stat is DEX. They get several debuffing and crowd control abilities via stun, paralyze, DoT and sleep.
Concept: The Chemist (CHM) is a healer that specializes in using its TP to maintain their available item charges via Forbidden Stash. Instead of applying DoT's like SCH and WHM, the CHM will instead be able to auto-attack from afar. When it uses its stance "Pharmacology" it loses the ability to dual-wield pistols and instead gains the use of a bag in their offhand. Having a bag allows them to get more charges for their healing abilities as they have more "room" to hold them but halves the rate at which they would normally auto-attack. While in the Pharmacology stance they receive the buff "Throw Items" which allows the usage of their stashed items on others in exchange for an additional cast time. I want to reiterate that they do not use actual items, they use charges on their abilities.Quote:
Chemist: Forfits their offhand pistol for a bag. Access to Healer LB. Relic Weapon: Ras Algethi + Fallingstar Bag.
Abilities:
30: Pharmacology: (A) Swaps MND and DEX values. Applies the "Throw Items" buff which changes the effects of "Stash," "Stashed [Item]," and some "Shot" abilities. Prevents the drawing of an Active Card and removes any already in place. Re-skins second gun with a bag which halves auto-attack speed. Ends upon re-use.
35: Stashed Remedy: (S) Removes a single detrimental effect. Self-only. Throw Items: Can be used on others. Cast Time: 1.5s. Range: 25y.
40: Stashed Mega-Potion: (S) Restores HP to target and party members within 15y with a potency of 650. Self-only. Throw Items: Can be used on others. Cast Time: 3.5s. Range: 25y.
45: Stashed X-Potion: (S) Restores HP with a potency of 800. Self-onlyThrow Items: Can be used on others. Range: 25y.
50: Mix: (A) The next two stashed items you use will be able to be used in a combo for an additional effect. Second item receives an 80% Cast Time reduction. Recast: 60s.
ARC:
Barrage
Quelling Strikes
Swiftsong
Hawk's Eye
LNC:
Invigorate
Feint
Keen Flurry
Forbidden Stash:
(Charges displayed beneath the skill where MP/TP costs are ordinarily located)
1000TP Consumed:
Potion: 30
Hi-Potion: 15
Mega-Potion: 4
X-Potion: 3
Remedy: 20
Phoenix Down: 5
500-999TP Consumed:
Potion: 15
Hi-Potion: 7
Mega-Potion: 2
X-Potion: 1
Remedy: 10
Phoenix Down: 2
1-499TP Consumed:
Potion: 7
Hi-Potion: 3
Mega-Potion: 1
X-Potion: 0
Remedy: 5
Phoenix Down: 1
Mix Combinations:
In short (more detail below) :
*Potion > *Potion = additional healing.
*Potion > Phoenix Down = raising with additional HP.
*Potion > Remedy = heal over time.
Remedy > *Potion = damage absorption shield.
Remedy > Phoenix Down = immune to detrimental status effects.
Remedy > Remedy = remove an additional status effect or grant an immunity to the most recent removed debuff if only 2 detrimental status effects are present.
Phoenix Down > *Potion = additional healing.
Phoenix Down > Remedy = status removal applies to party members within 15y.
Phoenix Down > Phoenix Down = healing over time to party members within 10y.
Combo's including Remedy will only be activated if Remedy removes a detrimental status effect.
Potion > Potion = Additional 60 potency heal on target.
Potion > Hi-Potion = Additional 40 potency heal on target.
Potion > Mega-Potion = Additional 30 potency heal on targets.
Potion > X-Potion = Additional 20 potency heal on target.
Potion > Remedy = Target receives healing over time with a potency of 60 (9s).
Potion > Phoenix Down = Target revives with additional HP.
Hi-Potion > Potion = Additional 90 potency heal on target.
Hi-Potion > Hi-Potion = Additional 70 potency heal on target.
Hi-Potion > Mega-Potion = Additional 60 potency heal on targets.
Hi-Potion > X-Potion = Additional 50 potency heal on target.
Hi-Potion > Remedy = Target receives healing over time with a potency of 70 (12s).
Hi-Potion > Phoenix Down = Target revives with additional HP.
Mega-Potion > Potion = 50% of total HP healed will heal party members within 10y of target (does not apply to target).
Mega-Potion > Hi-Potion = 25% of total HP healed will heal party members within 10y of target (does not apply to target).
Mega-Potion > Mega-Potion = Targets receive healing over time with a potency of 50 (12s).
Mega-Potion > X-Potion = 25% of total HP healed will heal party members within 10y of target (does not apply to target).
Mega-Potion > Remedy = Target and party members within 10y receive healing over time with a potency of 50 (9s).
Mega-Potion > Phoenix Down = Target revives with additional HP.
X-Potion > Potion = Additional 90 potency heal on target.
X-Potion > Hi-Potion = Additional 80 potency heal on target.
X-Potion > Mega-Potion = Additional 70 potency heal on target.
X-Potion > X-Potion = Additional 60 potency heal on target.
X-Potion > Remedy = Target receives healing over time with a potency of 80 (15s).
X-Potion > Phoenix Down = Target revives with additional HP.
Remedy > Potion = Nullifies damage equaling 50% of the amount of HP restored on the target.
Remedy > Hi-Potion = Nullifies damage equaling 25% of the amount of HP restored on the target.
Remedy > Mega-Potion = Nullifies damage equaling 20% of the amount of HP restored on the target.
Remedy > X-Potion = Nullifies damage equaling 15% of the amount of HP restored on the target.
Remedy > Remedy = Removes an additional detrimental status effect. If no effect is there to be removed target will receive immunity to last detrimental status effect removed (10s).
Remedy > Phoenix Down = Target will be immune to detrimental status effects (8s).
Phoenix Down > Potion = Additional 100 potency heal on target.
Phoenix Down > Hi-Potion = Additional 50 potency heal on target.
Phoenix Down > Mega-Potion = Additional 40 potency heal on target.
Phoenix Down > X-Potion = Additional 25 potency heal on target.
Phoenix Down > Remedy = Removes a detrimental status effect to party members within 10y.
Phoenix Down > Phoenix Down = Target and party members within 10y receive healing over time with a potency of 150 (9s).
They also gain the "Mix" ability which allows them to combine their "Stash [item]" abilities for additional effects like additional HP healed, HoT's, additional status removals/immunities or HP shields once every minute. This gives them the ability to employ a degree of strategy towards which items to use, when they use them and who they use them on. For instance if two people have fallen they could activate "Mix," revive one that is away from the group then revive one closer to the group which would then grant party members within 10y of the 2nd target a Regen effect to make up for the loss of time being able to heal. Their heals are baseline weaker than a CNJ's to make up for their versatility with Mix and their readily available Skill Speed gear and abilities. Even though they are a healer they continue wear ARC/BRD gear as the Pharmacology stance swaps their DEX and MND values. They'll be a slightly more durable healer than SCH/WHM when faced with physical attacks but less durable with magic attacks.
Concept: The Corsair (COR) is a damage dealer with a bit of support that has a lot of variables in their game play. By using Loaded Deck and Fold they can bestow buffs to themselves based on the attacks they used prior. They can also use Loaded Deck in conjunction with Leaden Salute to increase the DPS of the entire party. To keep true to the gambler job their "Wild Card" is a form of the classic "Slots" command in giving their party members a random buff. Their play-style will be relatively up in the air depending on what buffs they get and what cards are drawn. Their Limit Break is also on a roulette, allowing them to use any of them but it's random which one they land on. In order to accommodate this they will have to be within melee range of the enemy target in order to execute the LB (caster LB will center on their target automatically). Otherwise much of their damage comes from being able to utilize a lot of multi-attacks and critical hits. They wear current ARC/BRD gear.Quote:
Corsair: The level 30, 40 and 50 job quests increase the amount of cards you can hold with Loaded Deck to a maximum of 1,2 and 3 respectively. Relic weapon: Death Penalty + Annihilator.
Abilities:
30: Loaded Deck: (S) Allows the storage of up to 3 cards. New cards will replace older cards. Upon use this ability toggles into "Fold" which will consume all stored cards to bestow their buffs to the Corsair when used. Cards cannot be stored while "Fold" is in use and the ability will toggle back to "Loaded Deck." When "Loaded Deck" is used again the buffs they bestowed will be removed and new cards may be stacked once more. Ends upon re-use if no cards are stored.
35: Wildfire: (S) Delivers a fire elemental ranged attack with a potency of 130 to all enemies in a cone before you. Card effect: R: spreads a target's burn to other enemies hit by Wildfire, Y: spreads a target's burn to other enemies hit by Wildfire and renews its duration on all afflicted; B: spreads a target's burn to other enemies hit by Wildfire and renews its duration on all afflicted and extends duration by 15s. Active Card: Black Card. TP Cost: 240.
40: Leaden Salute: (S) Delivers a ranged attack with a potency of 150. Add. Effect: Consumes cards stored by Loaded Deck to inflict a status ailment on the target (10s per card consumed). Can only be used while Loaded Deck has at least 1 card stored. Active Card: White. TP Cost: 150.
45: Triple Shot: (A) Increases the number of shots per auto-attack to 3 (15s). Recast: 180s.
50: Wild Card: (A) Draws 1 random colored card (equal chance of R, Y or B). Add.Effect: Party members within 25y receive one of the following: +20% skill speed (30s), +15% damage dealt (15s), enemy target receives -10% magical, piercing, blunt and slashing resistance (15s), or 200 TP is restored. Cannot be used while under the effects of Fold. Recast: 300s.
ARC:
Barrage
Quelling Strikes
Raging Strikes
Hawk's Eye
PGL:
Mantra
Internal Release
Featherfoot
Fold:
Black: Increases the COR's damage dealt by 5% per black card.
Red: Increases the COR's critical hit rate by 5% per red card.
Yellow: Increases the COR's accuracy by 5% per yellow card.
White: Prevents the use of Fold and storing of additional cards (15s duration per card consumed by Leaden Salute).
Leaden Salute:
Red: Reduces target's Evasion by 5% per red card.
Black: Increases target's damage taken by 5% per black card.
Yellow: Reduces target's damage dealt by 5% per yellow card.
If you use Leaden Salute with 1 of each card the target will receive each debuff at a value of 5%, if you use it with 3 red cards the target will receive 15% damage taken etc. for 24s. After using Leaden Salute you are granted a White Card which prevents stacking of additional cards while under Loaded Deck status and prevents the use of Fold. It stays stored for 15s per card consumed by Leaden Salute. While in your Active Card slot it will negate any card effects on the next attack until a new Active Card overwrites it.
Musketeer: Chemist and Corsair Proposal
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12-10-2013, 12:33 PMMartaDemireuxMusketeer: Chemist and Corsair Proposal
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12-10-2013, 05:09 PMNahara
The Death Penalty and the Annihilator can't possibly be the COR's relic weapons. Those are the weapons currently being wielded by Merwyb and I seriously doubt she's gonna give them up.
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12-10-2013, 06:55 PMMartaDemireuxI know they are, that's why I picked them. She could very well be the job quest giver or involved in it. Many other job quests (maybe all?) involve NPC's that have the relic weapon for their respective jobs. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahara
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12-10-2013, 10:11 PMSayori
I actually think the class might be already finished
http://i.imgur.com/ghAEpGU.png
I guess it still needs some adjustments -
12-10-2013, 10:27 PMExstalThat's the boss.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayori
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12-11-2013, 12:01 AMMartaDemireuxYup like Exstal said that's the boss they're fighting. Another thing about it is it appears to be using 1 pistol and 1 sword. I'm pretty sure SE confirmed it to be a dual-wielding pistol class but that could have changed. I'm just glad to see they have gun animations in place, means the class might come very soon :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sayori
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12-11-2013, 06:18 AMNaharaThere's a reason for that: many of the relic weapons are known to have copies in existence. For example, Gae Bolgs are made by Ishgardian crasftsmen, Bravuras were made by Hellsguard craftsmen before they died out, and Sphairai were given to monks who mastered the coeurl combat style.Quote:
Originally Posted by MartaDemireux
There's no indication that the two guns that Merlwyb uses are more-or-less mass-produced and she's still alive, so it's not like we're going to be recovering hers and restoring them (as is the case with the Thyrus, which belonged to A-Towa-Cant, and the Veil of Wiyu, which belonged to Wiyu), and she doesn't seem like the kind of person willing to just let us make copies of her weapons. -
12-11-2013, 06:53 AMKitruSomeone in every single job quest (no necessarily the quest giver) has the relic weapon. Curious Gorge wields Bravura, the BRD job guy wields the Artemis Bow, the bad guy in the SMN quest wields the Veil of Wyu, the rogue Sultansworn in the PLD quest wields Curtana, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by MartaDemireux
The difference is that in none of those quests is the individual that you're dealing with the leader of one of the major cities. The leaders are *supposed* to have unique models/weapons because it's one of the things that distinguishes them. Raubahn gets his unique swords and shield; Merlwyb gets her unique guns, and Kan-E-Senna gets her unique staff. I'm pretty sure that the sultana has unique clothes, along with the rest of them, as well. Also, Merlwyb couldn't be the job giver because she's not accessible outside of cutscenes, like the rest of the city leaders. She's too important to just stand around staring at people.
While it's not *impossible* for her two guns to be the COR relic weapons, I wouldn't say that it's likely unless the devs are willing to break what looks like a rule (the city leaders have unique gear to distinguish them).
As an aside, Yoshi pretty much said that any dual wielding that occurs is going to be single slot rather than 2 slots. Allowing for main hand and offhand weapons opens up a lot of really weird balancing problems (especially if you want the two to be interchangeable). The unique schtick of the COR relic weapon could be that, unlike every other brace of pistols out there, they have different models, but I'm pretty confident that the devs are going to have the pistols as single hand weapons.
On the the classes/jobs themselves...
Musketeer:
The animations that we've seen from the gun using boss in Pharos Sirius, as well as all of the gun animations that currently exist in game (Merlwyb draws both guns but only aims one with her offhand pistol simply kept down in the same position as the empty position; the Jade Fox only has a single gun during the GSM story), are all one handed. If you want to have non-gun using abilities as something of a baseline functionality (cards, items, dice, etc.) it makes more sense to simply have MSK be a single weapon using class and have the offhand exist for the secondary effects and/or special movements like fanning or pulling an item out of your pocket for certain attacks. It fixes pretty much all of the aforementioned problems with dual wielding without really costing anything. Plus, if you really wanted to get some dual wielding in there, you could include abilities like "Holdout Pistol" (off-GCD attack with the animation of you drawing either a generic pistol or a double of your existing pistol with your offhand and firing it) and "Dual Wield" (on-GCD, combo finisher, you draw a second pistol that follows the same visual rules as Holdout Pistol and unload both of them in the target's face) without causing weird gear problems.
For the attacks, I *really* don't see a well developed rotation. You have Hot Shot (which only makes sense to use once every 21 seconds) comboing off of Split Shot which leads into Last Stand (which is just flat damage). When you get to COR, you then have Detonator combo off of Last Stand for flat damage once again, which is strange not only because it's more flat damage combo'd off of a DoT but also because it's a 4th attack in a combo (of which there are none, probably for good reason since it sets up too much necessary contingency that gets screwed up if you miss or use a different attack). Assuming that you intend "Quadruple Shots" to mean that you get 4 auto-attacks per 1 (this is ARR, not FFXI; there are no "Double/Triple/etc Strike" status effects so you need to actually say "Increases the number of strikes per auto-attack to 4"), you'd actually be turning the rotation into Split Shot>Slug Shot(until proc)>Split>Hot>Last because of how insanely strong Slug's effect is (160 potency + 10% chance for 4 GCDs of 300% additional damage from the 83.33 potency you get from auto-attacks = 260 potency; 180 potency per GCD compared to the 140 you'd get from Split>Hot>Last, given how you have to use Hot Shot to access Last Stand and, as COR, Detonator so you're pretty much never going to actually get the full 21 seconds; you'll probably get closer to 4 ticks, at 12 seconds, which is what I went with; when you add Detonator, it actually goes up high enough to make Split>Hot>Last>Det viable, but, if you're using that, you're getting even less out of Hot than you normally would, which is going to drop the damage per GCD even more).
You *really* need to pull Hot Shot from the middle of the flat damage combo so tht it exists on its own like Fracture, shorten the DoT by a crapton so that it doesn't constantly get clipped, or put it as the capstone of the current Slug combo (I would also remove Wildfire from the combo as well and make the DoT cleave a static benefit, given the cost and how it's not like getting DoT cleaves on AoE spam is going to do all that much extra damage). I would also remove Detonator from COR since the baseline class *really* needs a straight flat damage combo that it can always access.
Providing Remedy as a baseline class function instead of a healer job specific function is almost absurdly powerful, especially given the instant cast self heals and other control effects provided. Being able to remove debuffs on yourself with no cast time and no CD as a DPS is *incredibly* strong. There's a reason that only WHM and SCH get access to cleanses; giving them to a DPS, especially an rDPS, is just a recipe for laughing your way through PvP (not to mention being super strong in solo/debuff heavy environs; the Det down debuff on Titan would mean absolutely nothing to a COR since they could remove it themselves instantly).
Assuming that you want Ironhide Ungent to not stack with Protect, I find it strange that you want to provide the full sized Protect to a DPS class. It's not something that is necessarily *wrong*; it's just weird, given that Protect/shell is a WHM thing that stands a reasonable chance of having it be one of the the unique things that a WHM brings to the party. It might be more interesting for it to be on a CD and provide an absorb shield to everyone within a given range (starts off only reducing physical and then gets the trait to apply to both).
The 25% INT debuff on Sniper Shot seems kind of large (and just having it apply to INT instead of INT and MIN is pretty strange). Virus, which is supposed to be the powerful stat debuff, is only 15%. 25% is reaching pretty high, especially since Sniper Shot looks like it's really intended as a damage buff, so it exists at something of cross purposes.
Chemist:
I'm not entirely sure I see the point behind Chemist getting a bag as an offhand weapon rather than just having them pull items out of a pouch at their side. It seems like you're only doing it because you want to have classical dual wielding and needed something to give Chemists other than a second weapon, which also begs the question of what the point of it would be. Your providing a stance that changes what gear you can use, which doesn't any precendent in game, and forces players to go in and change gear manually every time they change classes (since you don't load into a class/job with any stances up; you would have to swap to Chemist, activate Throw Items, and *then* you get to put your bag in that slot), as well as causing them to lose a slot if they ever change stances in combat or get resurrected. Swapping Mind and Dex makes sense, but the rest of it is just horrible (esp. since you're having it apply a global 2.5 sec cast to all abilities rather than just saying something like "adds cast time" which would allow you to vary what the cast time is, so that Remedy gets the same 1 sec cast as Leeches and Esuna).
The whole "Stash" concept is interesting as a *bonus* mechanic but forcing it to act as the primary resource for the entire class is just horrible, horrible design. You're completely abandoning the actual resources the game uses and applying a completely arbitrary one that is so heavily restrictive that players have next to no real input into it. Any misclick or overheal is going to punish you severely down the line, and, as far as resources are concerned, you are completely resetting their entire resource pool every minute so they exist in this weird set up where they have resources and options that dwindle very quickly and are then completely refilled so that you have the full suite of options again, for a short time. You're telling the player that you've already made the decision about what abilities they're going to cast and how often they're going to cast them without letting them actually choose (WHM can choose to use 12 Cure IIs or 30 Cures with the same MP; the devs set the costs, but the player still makes the choice). There's no choice because, even if you need to do a lot of high intensity healing (like on Caduceus with multiple stacks), you don't actually get to change how you consume your resources because it's the exact same allotment of casts that you get when you *don't* have to do constant high intensity healing. The only choice a player gets to make is with Mix, which ends up consuming resources faster for marginal improved benefit (it seems like you're actually saying that the first cast is used normally and the second gets a buff depending upon the first one used, which isn't really "mixing"). You're also forcing an huge level of micromanagement by providing different stash amounts for every single stashed item so that players have to watch 6 different buffs on their bar at all time, remembering which ones is which even with the numbers obscuring the icon amidst the rest of your buffs.
It's clear that you modeled Stash after Aetherflow but you have to remember that Aetherflow exists as a *bonus* resource rather than a fundamental action resource. Aetherflow doesn't *replace* MP; it exists alongside it as a secondary resource. The same needs to be true about Chemist (it should also be noted that, based upon this design, absolutely nothing could be done to improve the resource pool; if you run low, Ballad would do nothing, Ethers would do nothing; you'd be screwed until Stash came up again). Stash should be a resource that is generic rather than specific. You should be allowed to pull out whatever you need from your Stash because you're already making the assumption that the Stash is an abstraction (since you have an infinite number of X-potions even if you can only have 1 per minute).
If you're going to make it super important to Chemist (which it looks like you want to do), you should at least provide some modicum of importance to the DPS, similar to how Aetherflow is there for Lustrate/Soil for SCH and Fester for SMN. Swap out some of the more inappropriate stashed abilities that MSK gets (Stashed Remedy, Stashed Hi-potion) and replace them with abilities that would actually benefit the MSK/COR's primary role of DPS. Have Sleep Shot consume 1 or 2 stacks of stash (it's special ammunition). Throw in an explosive round that consumes a stack of stash to do a targeted AoE. Provide a stash consumer that restores some resources (which is likely what Chemist would end up using for resource maintenance). Replace Quick Draw with "Rapid Reload", which consumes 2 Stash stacks but increases attack speed by 10% for 10 seconds (and, because Stash is on a 1 min CD, could only be used once every minute). Make it so that Stash becomes more than just a healing resource that would probably just get ignored by nearly every MSK/COR on the planet. You'd probably also want to actually keep the number of Stash stacks constant for CHM and MSK/COR (you could change Pharmacology to be a bonus Stash recharge ability on a 5 min CD if you want CHM to have access to more or possibly an ability that makes it so that all of your Stash consuming abilities consume 1 less Stash for 10-15 seconds).
On top of fixing Stash so that it's a secondary resource rather than a primary resource, you have to address what the primary resource is going to be. You either need to decide that they will be using MP and be required to bring in Cure or Physic as a cross-class skill or provide them with a cast heal as part of their class (you could do this with Stashed Potion; similar to how SMN gets Physick, MSK/COR would be able to cast it without consuming Stash stacks, which they reserve for offensive boosts, but not get much out of it) that consumes either TP or MP. Since you want them using BRD gear, which means that they don't get PIE, you need to have some way for their resource pool to scale up as gear progresses. An option for this might be to provide Chemist with a 15 second CD off-GCD ability that restores the primary resource but can only be used within 5 seconds of scoring a critical heal (call it "Windfall Ether") so that critical hit rating acts as a form of piety for them.
With First Aid, I'm not entirely sure that you *need* to have Mega-Potion. If you change it so that First-Aid consumes a stack of Stash and have it apply the same heal to all targets instead of spreading it out, you get the value of multiple AoE heals (FA + Potion, FA + Hi-potion, FA + x-potion) for the price of a single ability slot.
Also, there's no real reason to force different potencies on the healing abilities for CHM and MSK/COR. You're having them be driven by MIN so, even if it were a cure with a huge potency, it still wouldn't heal for a really appreciable amount because they just don't have the MIN for it (especially if you give them a pitiful MIN akin to how WAR has a pitiful PIE).
Corsair:
As to the actual mechanics, allowing for the class to maintain 10% +crit, 10% +dam, and 10% +acc pretty much all the time is insanely strong, especially given that you're allowing them to do that *in addition* to the standard damage that a MSK would be throwing out. You didn't list a duration on any of them (that I could see) so they're, for all intents and purposes, permanent bonuses, which means that MSK needs to stack next to no acc (thanks to permanent +10% acc) and gets nearly 15% +dam compared to a MSK (10% from Red and just shy of 5% from Black). The debuffs that they provide with Leaden Salute really only place any value on the Red Card buff: people already stack acc until they can't miss and, even if they were short, would get a *minute* damage advantage out of the increase in hit chance from 97% (or whatever they had) to 100% (with 7% wasted) and I'm not even sure that enemies *have* critical evasion (unless you intended it to be more like a 5% per card increase in crit chance against the target, wherein it's still less than half as useful as the Red Card buffs). The 6 sec duration of White Card is really weird, given that every other debuff of the kind is divisible by 2.5 (the GCD). The only things that have durations divisible by 3 are DoTs (because that's when they tick).
You really need to either reduce the value of the cards (Wrath is 2% crit per stack; you could do 1% damage per Red Card, 1% attack speed for Yellow, and 2% crit for Black, which would keep them all at the same relative usefulness without letting them provide *too* much).
For Wild Card, the skill speed increase is horrible, so, unless you planned on providing a super weak option, you need to replace it with something more valuable. 20% +skill speed reduces the activation time by almost laughably small amounts (Selene provides 20% +skill speed with one of hers with 50% uptime and it's barely noticeable; it reduces GCD by something like .1, at most, which doesn't even translate into an extra attack over a 30 second duration). If you want it to be useful, have it modify attack speed instead of skill speed (so that it modifies the end value, like Greased Lightning does, rather than the base stat), though you'd need to fix the values. Since it doesn't seem like you're giving the cards any durations, it's effectively a permanent third card (at least until you use Leaden, which, the permanent duration of the cards,
Loaded Deck also seems kind of arbitrary given it's a stance that has no negative effect and would be kept up at all times (Cleric Stance and Defiance both have negative side effects so there is a reason for those class/jobs to run around without their stance on; yours is providing no reason not to). You could more easily implement all of the Loaded Deck benefits as Addition Effects that are only accessed while you are a Corsair, which would free up one ability slot for something that actually has a reason to exist.
A more effective implementation of what you're desiring out of Loaded Deck (if you really want it to be a stance) could be for it to apply a 20% -dam debuff and consume MP while active (or 25% increase in TP costs if you really want to differ from the BRD model, which acts as both the negative effect as well as the time limitation) and provide either the benefits you receive from your cards or some other ability contingent upon what cards you have to all allies within 5y (10% +dam for *all* damage dealers is friggin' insane so forcing people to stack to get the benefit is fully justifiable) so that, instead of having 3 different stances that all do something different, COR would have a single stance that can do multiple things while it's active. Of course, since you can have multiple cards active at all times, you're not really providing one of multiple benefits but instead providing the same benefit at all times, which probably needs to be addressed, which brings me to my next point.
You really should have a support class that provides the same support pretty much all the time. As it stands, you've got COR providing +acc, +crit, and +dam pretty much every time. Yes, you *can* elect to use it early when you only have one type of card, but there's no real reason to and, in fact, because you're having the cards provided by pretty much every attack, it's really hard *not* to. When I first read your idea, I thought that you could only have one type of card at a time, which would mean that you could buff either acc, crit, or damage (and, once again, you're providing a benefit that applies to *everyone*, as opposed to a subset, which is what all current support capabilities do, which is obviously intended, given how you can't have Selene's skill and spell speed buffs up simultaneously). There should be a choice of *what* the COR is going to buff rather than just *when*. A possible solution is to could restrict the number of total cards that you can have to 5 by having the total of 5 place the "Full Hand" de/buff on you that prevents you from getting more cards (you could right click cards that you don't want to get try for a different hand) and Leaden Salute could be made to only be able to be used while you have a Full Hand (like how WAR requires you be Infuriated). Depending upon what hand you're showing (2 pair, 3 of a kind, 4 of a kind, full house), you could get different benefits that apply to different groups. Either that or you could have multiple Full Hand consuming abilities, like a group buff, a straight up high damage attack, and an AoE.
If you do this, you would likely need to change Wild Card into something like "New Hand" or "Mulligan", which gives you a random assortment of cards equal to the number of cards you currently have. It could be reduced to a 60 sec CD pretty safely.
So, to sum it all up, here's what I recommend you do...
General Changes:
Get rid of dual wielding and replace it with a single gun.
Change Stash so that it is a resource of 3>4>5 (add Secret Stash II as a trait) that has offensive uses from MSK and gets additional healing/support uses from CHM.
MSK Changes:
Fix the combos: Hot Shot shouldn't be a tier 2 combo attack that's part of the flat damage combo if it has a long DoT duration; provide a full flat damage combo as part of MSK instead of requiring COR; provide 2 separate full ST combos instead of one 4 part, one 2 part that can turn into a 3 part but is only for AoE.
Remove stashed Remedy and stashed Hi-potion.
Add offensive/utility Stash consuming abilities (Explosive Round) and change existing abilities (Sleep Shot, Quick Draw, Drink) so that they consume Stash stacks (not all of those would necessarily be changed, just listing some that could be changed)
Reevaluated Ironhide Ungent (esp. Ironwill Ungent) and Sniper Shot
CHM Changes:
Get rid of gear changes as part of Throw Items.
Decide whether maintenance healing is intended be done through cross-class Cure/Physick or unlimited cast MSK Potion.
Add Windfall Ether (or some other resource returning ability that procs off of crits) in place of Mega-Potion.
Turn Hi-potion into a flat cast.
Turn X-potion into an off-GCD large heal that consumes Stash.
Change Pharmacology to Stash refill or cost reduction ability.
COR Changes:
Get rid of Loaded Deck and simply transfer the card gaining abilities as additional effects on all abilities. Conversely, have Loaded Deck turned into a limited uptime stance that spreads card buffs to all nearby allies.
Reduce buff value of cards. Get rid of +acc and replace with something more useful, like +attack speed.
Reevaluate all +skill speed buffs and/or change to +attack speed buffs.
Modify support capabilities so that they are not global and are instead specific to certain roles/class subsets.
Reevaluate card generation/maintenance/consumption mechanics and limit number of total cards at a single time (without limiting card type) -
12-11-2013, 11:22 AMMartaDemireuxIf I recall correctly her guns were previously owned by Mistbeard (the Pirate King). He may have obtained them from a previous Pirate King who obtained them from yet another previous Pirate King and so on. It could go back far enough to be from an era when they were made more frequently such as the high tech era that erected Dalamud. Due to the nature of the relic quests restoring timeworn relics (at least that's how the BRD one goes and yet the quest giver owns one himself) Gerolt could mention hearing about an ancient looking chest washing up on the shores of La Noscea and have you procure the chest's contents in Reaver Hide. In which you find old, rusted, sludge-covered guns that need to be reforged. They could even tie in Merlwyb to the quest (including her in a cutscene) which could show her doubting your responsibility to handle such weapons and/or saluting you for proving your worthiness of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahara
@Kitru: While I'm sure you may have a good idea or point in your post, I regret to inform you that I will be refraining from clicking the "view" button due to your history of hostile comments and tones toward myself and others. I don't appreciate reading that kind of text and have opted to use the forum's blocking feature as of 11-25-2013. I appreciate you taking the time to weigh-in on my idea but wish to remind you that I cannot see what you write. -
12-11-2013, 12:04 PMExstalYou would not survive in the world of theoretical science.Quote:
Originally Posted by MartaDemireux
As for;Quote:
General Changes:
Get rid of dual wielding and replace it with a single gun.
Change Stash so that it is a resource of 3>4>5 (add Secret Stash II as a trait) that has offensive uses from MSK and gets additional healing/support uses from CHM.
MSK Changes:
Fix the combos: Hot Shot shouldn't be a tier 2 combo attack that's part of the flat damage combo if it has a long DoT duration; provide a full flat damage combo as part of MSK instead of requiring COR; provide 2 separate full ST combos instead of one 4 part, one 2 part that can turn into a 3 part but is only for AoE.
Remove stashed Remedy and stashed Hi-potion.
Add offensive/utility Stash consuming abilities (Explosive Round) and change existing abilities (Sleep Shot, Quick Draw, Drink) so that they consume Stash stacks (not all of those would necessarily be changed, just listing some that could be changed)
Reevaluated Ironhide Ungent (esp. Ironwill Ungent) and Sniper Shot
CHM Changes:
Get rid of gear changes as part of Throw Items.
Decide whether maintenance healing is intended be done through cross-class Cure/Physick or unlimited cast MSK Potion.
Add Windfall Ether (or some other resource returning ability that procs off of crits) in place of Mega-Potion.
Turn Hi-potion into a flat cast.
Turn X-potion into an off-GCD large heal that consumes Stash.
Change Pharmacology to Stash refill or cost reduction ability.
COR Changes:
Get rid of Loaded Deck and simply transfer the card gaining abilities as additional effects on all abilities. Conversely, have Loaded Deck turned into a limited uptime stance that spreads card buffs to all nearby allies.
Reduce buff value of cards. Get rid of +acc and replace with something more useful, like +attack speed.
Reevaluate all +skill speed buffs and/or change to +attack speed buffs.
Modify support capabilities so that they are not global and are instead specific to certain roles/class subsets.
Reevaluate card generation/maintenance/consumption mechanics and limit number of total cards at a single time (without limiting card type)
No city leader shares their weapons with normal relics though.Quote:
If I recall correctly her guns were previously owned by Mistbeard (the Pirate King). He may have obtained them from a previous Pirate King who obtained them from yet another previous Pirate King and so on. It could go back far enough to be from an era when they were made more frequently such as the high tech era that erected Dalamud. Due to the nature of the relic quests restoring timeworn relics (at least that's how the BRD one goes and yet the quest giver owns one himself) Gerolt could mention hearing about an ancient looking chest washing up on the shores of La Noscea and have you procure the chest's contents in Reaver Hide. In which you find old, rusted, sludge-covered guns that need to be reforged. They could even tie in Merlwyb to the quest (including her in a cutscene) which could show her doubting your responsibility to handle such weapons and/or saluting you for proving your worthiness of them.
" Raubahn gets his unique swords and shield; Merlwyb gets her unique guns, and Kan-E-Senna gets her unique staff."
So it's unlikely Merl's weapons will be relics for MSK/COR. -
12-11-2013, 10:28 PMMartaDemireuxI don't know why you would say that. Personally I don't put up with name calling and unprovoked hostility in real life (I ignore them and walk away) so I certainly would not put up with it on an internet forum (blocking is effectively the same thing). I only do this for people that show a pattern and history of such behavior.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exstal
Just because it hasn't been done yet is no reason to assume it never will happen. Thinking like that would have prevented us from walking on the Moon. Raubahn's could be a copy of the DRK relic (if they stick with the sword and shield), Merlwyb's could be COR's and Kan-E-Senna's could be GEO's for all we know.Quote:
No city leader shares their weapons with normal relics though.
"Raubahn gets his unique swords and shield; Merlwyb gets her unique guns, and Kan-E-Senna gets her unique staff."
So it's unlikely Merl's weapons will be relics for MSK/COR.
As for that list of changes:
MSK:
Copy-paste error on my part as far as Hot Shot; Included an old version of it. It's meant to lead that combo and not be combo'd off of Split shot with a lower duration (as seen in the concept section). Its duration was originally long to allow a decent portion of time remaining when spreading it through Wildfire's combo but realized it would be better to just be able to apply Hot Shot and then do the WF combo. I do see the issue of clipping though and will exclude it from combo's altogether (aside from WF's effect). I don't like the idea of Stash becoming a version of Aetherflow. I envisioned Stash to literally be the fuel of CHM in restocking their item supply. For MSK/COR I think I'll impose a longer cooldown and have it be reduced by Throw Items and remove the trait that increases their stash. Also think I'll have it consume all of the user's TP to discourage liberal use on COR but still give just enough use that they can take care of themselves in a pinch. As for their version of Esuna, Protect and Shell: I see it as a non-issue. When CNJ gets a DPS role available to it that role will have the CNJ's Proshell trait and Esuna. No different here except that they are self-only.
CHM:
There are no gear changes with Throw Items, it merely allows the equipping (read: display) of a bag. I only see dual-wielding taking place in a similar fashion to MNK's weapons (1 actual weapon with skins on 2 hands) and thought it was a given due to Yoshi's public stance but perhaps I should mention more clearly that it is basically a skin swap that takes place. Bag appearance would change to match the current gun's of course. Assuming dual-wielded guns would give either 2 auto-attacks per attack round or increased auto-attack speed this would limit CHM to only 1 auto-attack per round or slow their auto-attack speed. I intend for maintenance healing to be done via Potions and have allotted enough healing items in total to be used per 60s cooldown. If anyone dies or is debuffed the use of Phoenix Down or Remedy would make it so Stash would be up before you were out of healing items. I may have to increase the healing items available to account for increases to skill speed however as I neglected to account for that. Individual item cast times is something to consider however Pharmacology already does what is suggested.
COR:
I suggest a re-reading of the abilities. There is only a maximum of 2 cards allowed already. New cards replace old cards so you would only see a +10% boost to any given stat if you gimp your overall damage output by not following combo's. The combo's as outlined in the concept portion note that you would always see 2 different cards up at any one time in normal gameplay. Wild Card's 3rd card was meant to be used with Leaden Salute to decrease a variable by 10-15% instead of 5-10%. Instead of buffing the team directly I want COR to buff the team through debuffing the enemy. Instead of focusing on roles I want them to focus on situations. Party not geared well enough in accuracy? Gimp your damage to set up a double black card Leaden Salute. Accuracy is there but damage could be improved? Gimp your damage to set up a double red card Leaden Salute. Party seems to be doing ok? Follow through with your normal combo's and end up giving a 5% critical hit rate buff with either a 5% acc or damage dealt buff. Leaden Salute applies a white card that prevents the buildup of cards while the enemy is being debuffed to prevent double dipping on buffs. I do agree that Loaded Deck should be reworked (if the job is the same role as the class it doesn't really need a stance (excluding WAR)). -
12-11-2013, 11:41 PMExstalI say it because that's how your theory, if you formulated one, is met with in the real world against other scientists.Quote:
Originally Posted by MartaDemireux
Providing Remedy as a baseline class function instead of a healer job specific function is almost absurdly powerful, especially given the instant cast self heals and other control effects provided. Being able to remove debuffs on yourself with no cast time and no CD, as a DPS, is incredibly strong. There's a reason that only WHM and SCH get access to cleanses; giving them to a DPS, especially an ranged DPS, is just a recipe for laughing your way through PvP (not to mention being super strong in solo/debuff heavy environs; the Det down debuff on Titan would mean absolutely nothing to a COR since they could remove it themselves instantly).Quote:
Originally Posted by MartaDemireux
(Kitru's words, not mine) -
12-12-2013, 02:24 AMNaharaNo, he doesn't. He wields a recolored version of the Ifrit book.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitru
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12-12-2013, 03:59 AMKitruThe problem with this is still that you're not allowing the player to choose what they're going to be using because you're mechanically enforcing "this many maintenance heals, this many medium heals, this many big heals, this many AoE heals, this many cleanses" (imagine any kind of fight with intense AoE healing requirements; 5 Mega-Potions every minute aren't going to be nearly enough, especially if the party is spread out). As I said before, you're also ignoring the primary resource mechanisms. For Chemists, your version of Stash completely replaces both TP and MP, which is just a bad idea. TP and MP exist as primary resource with the various class/job specific resources acting as secondary "bonus" resources for good reason. You also didn't address anything about having to micro-manage all of the individual stacks of items in your stash; unless Chemists are going to get a completely unique UI element just for them, this means that they're going to have to watch their buff bars like a hawk, hoping that the Stash buffs don't bounce around *too* much and the stack numbers don't obscure the background element too badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by MartaDemireux
You've already made the arbitrary decision that the items exist in infinite supply. Thematically, you don't *need* to place arbitrary limitations on the number of abilities used because you've already made that decision because that arbitrary limitation doesn't actually make sense. It would make more sense, thematically, for the Chemist "heals" to be quickly synthesized (the cast animation) rapidly degrading version of the consumables on the fly and that are then thrown (the finishing animation) instead of carrying an effectively infinite supply of items on their person that they can only replenish once every minute (unless you want to explain Stash as them synthesizing all of those abilities instantly, which can only be done at full TP, wherein it still makes more sense for each to be synthesized individually because otherwise the limitation to specific item types doesn't make sense since you're giving them infinite durations; using that logic, a Chemist should be able to sit in town for 15 minutes and replace all of their potions and hi-potions with x-potions because they take up the same space). Of course, TP as the sole resource for a healer gets kind of weird because TP and MP have very different consumption/regeneration paradigms, which complicates it.
Stash as the sole and primary resource for Chemist healing is arbitrary, illogical, imbalanced, and not fun.
You're making the assumption that if/when CNJ gets a DPS job that Protect/Esuna wouldn't get addressed. It should also be mentioned that a CNJ DPS job is still based off of a healer class. You're providing the buff capabilities of WHM to a DPS class (and it's constituent main job).Quote:
When CNJ gets a DPS role available to it that role will have the CNJ's Proshell trait and Esuna. No different here except that they are self-only.
"Equipping" isn't a display thing. It's the mechanical act of placing an item in an equipment slot. If you want it to read as a display change, say that. What you're intending is identical to toggling helm/jewelry to visible/hidden, which isn't anything like "equipping" those items.Quote:
There are no gear changes with Throw Items, it merely allows the equipping (read: display) of a bag.
This would require a class trait to provide 2 auto-attacks for every 1 and another trait applied to Throw Items that provides the inverse debuff. It's another one of those things that really needs to be mentioned rahter than arbitrarily assumed. Of course, having dual wielding classes suddenly gain a passive doubling or other dramatic increase to their auto-attack damage requires revisiting their damage/combos as a whole, since you're providing them with 83.33 additional potency per GCD (and having them scale differently than non-dual wielding classes since the secondary stats do not affect auto-attacks in the same way as special attacks).Quote:
Assuming dual-wielded guns would give either 2 auto-attacks per attack round or increased auto-attack speed
I suggest you either reread or read my entire post rather than just the tiny portion of it that Exstal quoted (he posted what amounts to the TL;DR version that heavily condensed everything such that much of it only makes sense in context if you read the entire thing). The Pharmacology change is in support to the Stash change that you *really* need to look into.Quote:
Pharmacology already does what is suggested.
"Limit 2 cards" can be interpreted multiple ways. Given that you had *every single attack* providing a card (such that you'd be overwriting cards pretty much all the time if it were 2 cards total rather than 2 per card type), the only implementation that made sense to me was that it was 2 cards per type, since, if you limit to 2 cards, you've got a completely schizophrenic self-buffing mechanism. And, before you bring up the form changing on MNK, form changing exists as a modification of the combo system, not as a buff metric. What you're doing here would be like having Greased Lightning have a completely different benefit depending upon what form you were in.Quote:
I suggest a re-reading of the abilities. There is only a maximum of 2 cards allowed already.
A more effective way to do this would be to have it directly improve your next Leaden Salute instead of adding the extra Card. The Cards exist as self-buffs with unlimited duration and, by using it, since cards have no duration, you'd be allowing the COR to have 3 cards up until they use Leaden Salute (which consumes all 3 and brings them back down to max 2 again).Quote:
Wild Card's 3rd card was meant to be used with Leaden Salute to decrease a variable by 10-15% instead of 5-10%.
Those situations don't apply though. No party is going to need/want a temporary accuracy buff because accuracy is something that players stack until they can no longer miss (and, while you're leveling, you pretty much can't miss anyways); the only use it would have would be for the tiny number of people that run into content without actually having the necessary gear. It's because of this that the +acc on Hawk's Eye is effectively pointless. The +crit is *always* going to be dramatically inferior to +dam. The only Leaden Salute that anyone would ever use would be double Red, even if they have to double cast Hot Shot right before it, because 10% +dam on a target is going to one *helluva* lot more than the tiny portion of lost DPS that a COR would suffer from the inefficient attack pairing.Quote:
Instead of focusing on roles I want them to focus on situations.
Leaden Salute isn't situational. It's something that you want to be using constantly because the buffs are universally beneficial. There's never a situation where global buffs to everyone's effectiveness aren't something that you want (especially when double red card increases *your* damage as well). BRD and SCH have to pick and choose when to apply their buffs. Your COR would just be throwing out Leaden Salute at every possible opportunity because you *always* want those benefits. -
12-12-2013, 06:09 AMDarkkos
I dont know if that been said earlier but Yoshida said he doesnt want to put any job that require the use of item (Like in FFXI where Ranger needed Arrow, Ninja needed tools, etc) So I dont think Chemist will us item like Potion to heal other ppl.
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12-12-2013, 07:44 AMExstal
Being that I read Kitru's rebuttal and it's not as "hostile and belittling" as previous ones (?), I'll repost it.
Quote:
The problem with this is still that you're not allowing the player to choose what they're going to be using because you're mechanically enforcing "this many maintenance heals, this many medium heals, this many big heals, this many AoE heals, this many cleanses" (imagine any kind of fight with intense AoE healing requirements; 5 Mega-Potions every minute aren't going to be nearly enough, especially if the party is spread out). As I said before, you're also ignoring the primary resource mechanisms. For Chemists, your version of Stash completely replaces both TP and MP, which is just a bad idea. TP and MP exist as primary resource with the various class/job specific resources acting as secondary "bonus" resources for good reason. You also didn't address anything about having to micro-manage all of the individual stacks of items in your stash; unless Chemists are going to get a completely unique UI element just for them, this means that they're going to have to watch their buff bars like a hawk, hoping that the Stash buffs don't bounce around *too* much and the stack numbers don't obscure the background element too badly.Quote:
Originally Posted by MartaDemireux
You've already made the arbitrary decision that the items exist in infinite supply. Thematically, you don't *need* to place arbitrary limitations on the number of abilities used because you've already made that decision because that arbitrary limitation doesn't actually make sense. It would make more sense, thematically, for the Chemist "heals" to be quickly synthesized (the cast animation) rapidly degrading version of the consumables on the fly and that are then thrown (the finishing animation) instead of carrying an effectively infinite supply of items on their person that they can only replenish once every minute (unless you want to explain Stash as them synthesizing all of those abilities instantly, which can only be done at full TP, wherein it still makes more sense for each to be synthesized individually because otherwise the limitation to specific item types doesn't make sense since you're giving them infinite durations; using that logic, a Chemist should be able to sit in town for 15 minutes and replace all of their potions and hi-potions with x-potions because they take up the same space). Of course, TP as the sole resource for a healer gets kind of weird because TP and MP have very different consumption/regeneration paradigms, which complicates it.
Stash as the sole and primary resource for Chemist healing is arbitrary, illogical, imbalanced, and not fun.
You're making the assumption that if/when CNJ gets a DPS job that Protect/Esuna wouldn't get addressed. It should also be mentioned that a CNJ DPS job is still based off of a healer class. You're providing the buff capabilities of WHM to a DPS class (and it's constituent main job).Quote:
When CNJ gets a DPS role available to it that role will have the CNJ's Proshell trait and Esuna. No different here except that they are self-only.
"Equipping" isn't a display thing. It's the mechanical act of placing an item in an equipment slot. If you want it to read as a display change, say that. What you're intending is identical to toggling helm/jewelry to visible/hidden, which isn't anything like "equipping" those items.Quote:
There are no gear changes with Throw Items, it merely allows the equipping (read: display) of a bag.
This would require a class trait to provide 2 auto-attacks for every 1 and another trait applied to Throw Items that provides the inverse debuff. It's another one of those things that really needs to be mentioned rahter than arbitrarily assumed. Of course, having dual wielding classes suddenly gain a passive doubling or other dramatic increase to their auto-attack damage requires revisiting their damage/combos as a whole, since you're providing them with 83.33 additional potency per GCD (and having them scale differently than non-dual wielding classes since the secondary stats do not affect auto-attacks in the same way as special attacks).Quote:
Assuming dual-wielded guns would give either 2 auto-attacks per attack round or increased auto-attack speed
*edited portion that tells one to not only look at the tl;dr but entire original post*. The Pharmacology change is in support to the Stash change that you *really* need to look into.Quote:
Pharmacology already does what is suggested.
"Limit 2 cards" can be interpreted multiple ways. Given that you had *every single attack* providing a card (such that you'd be overwriting cards pretty much all the time if it were 2 cards total rather than 2 per card type), the only implementation that made sense to me was that it was 2 cards per type, since, if you limit to 2 cards, you've got a completely schizophrenic self-buffing mechanism. And, before you bring up the form changing on MNK, form changing exists as a modification of the combo system, not as a buff metric. What you're doing here would be like having Greased Lightning have a completely different benefit depending upon what form you were in.Quote:
I suggest a re-reading of the abilities. There is only a maximum of 2 cards allowed already.
A more effective way to do this would be to have it directly improve your next Leaden Salute instead of adding the extra Card. The Cards exist as self-buffs with unlimited duration and, by using it, since cards have no duration, you'd be allowing the COR to have 3 cards up until they use Leaden Salute (which consumes all 3 and brings them back down to max 2 again).Quote:
Wild Card's 3rd card was meant to be used with Leaden Salute to decrease a variable by 10-15% instead of 5-10%.
Those situations don't apply though. No party is going to need/want a temporary accuracy buff because accuracy is something that players stack until they can no longer miss (and, while you're leveling, you pretty much can't miss anyways); the only use it would have would be for the tiny number of people that run into content without actually having the necessary gear. It's because of this that the +acc on Hawk's Eye is effectively pointless. The +crit is *always* going to be dramatically inferior to +dam. The only Leaden Salute that anyone would ever use would be double Red, even if they have to double cast Hot Shot right before it, because 10% +dam on a target is going to one *helluva* lot more than the tiny portion of lost DPS that a COR would suffer from the inefficient attack pairing.Quote:
Instead of focusing on roles I want them to focus on situations.
Leaden Salute isn't situational. It's something that you want to be using constantly because the buffs are universally beneficial. There's never a situation where global buffs to everyone's effectiveness aren't something that you want (especially when double red card increases *your* damage as well). BRD and SCH have to pick and choose when to apply their buffs. Your COR would just be throwing out Leaden Salute at every possible opportunity because you *always* want those benefits.
As it stands, there really should be no reason for me to do something like this. Kitru is the one who brings the insight and math to these types of threads and regardless of whatever feeling you have, you must look at it as a wealth of information.
For example, if you're stuck on really tough math problem and the neighbourhood genius prick comes by, "hey moron, this is how you should these problems with this formula." He thus leaves, you're going to simply ignore he told you how to fix it? Especially if no one else seems to care or even have close to the right answer? It's fine if you don't want to take that kind of "abuse" but then you'll have pipe dream classes that are broken in implementation or overpowered (like most of your suggestions before heavy revision).
EDIT: I don't really like the idea of how cards stack. If you can only have 2 cards, why would you do Split Shot (black) > Slug Shot (yellow) > Wildfire (red). You're going to be losing Black Card or forsaking red card.
Quote:
1: Split Shot: (S) Delivers a ranged attack with a potency of 100. Throw Items: The target of your target will recieve a 50 potency heal over time (9s). Upon wearing off the recipient cannot be applied with Split Shot for 10s. Loaded Deck: Black Card. TP Cost: 60
22: Slug Shot: (S) Delivers a ranged attack with a potency of 110. Combo Action: Split Shot. Combo Potency: 160. Combo Bonus: 10% chance to grant Quadruple Shot buff (10s). Loaded Deck: Yellow Card. TP Cost: 80.
50: Wildfire: (S) Delivers a fire elemental ranged attack with a potency of 130 to all enemies in a cone before you. Combo Action: Slug Shot Add.Effect: Spreads a target's Burn to all enemies hit (remaining duration). 15% chance to reset Burn duration. Loaded Deck: Red Card. TP Cost: 110.
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12-12-2013, 08:13 AMKitruThe abilities don't use consumables. They're effectively heals that are simply named after the consumables.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkkos
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12-12-2013, 11:42 AMMartaDemireuxPlease do not feel the need to do so, absolutely no reason to play mediator. I'll read it tomorrow to see if that in fact is the case (really hope it is, because she honestly does have some good ideas now and again it's just the way they're presented I prefer not to subject myself to).Quote:
Originally Posted by Exstal
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12-12-2013, 12:43 PMExstalNo problemo, dude~Quote:
Originally Posted by MartaDemireux
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02-25-2014, 03:28 AMMartaDemireux
Applied some changes and clarifications to the OP.
Changes to MSK:
Clarified Stash.
Stashed Remedy now CHM only to make room for a self buff
Added ability Rapid Shot. Increases auto-attack speed for a short time to increase CHM TP regernation and MSK/COR DPS.
First Aid changed from making the next *potion AoE to a 400 potency HP/MP heal with a recast of 180s (can't use on self).
Changes to CHM:
Stashed Remedy cast time increased from 1s to 1.5s.
Clarified CHM Mix effects and included a tl;dr on them.
Removed Pharmacology (Next stashed item wouldn't use a charge).
Changed name of Throw Items to Pharmacology. Pharmacology now applies Throw Items effect.
Re-added Stashed Mega-Potion.
Stashed X-Potion changed from level 40 to 45
Mix changed from level 45 to 50.
Added the cross class abilities which I had forgotten to do.
Changes to COR:
Clarified cards are overwritten after 3 have been drawn.
Clarified Leaden Salute usage and debuff duration to 6s per card consumed.
Increased white card duration from 6s to 8s per card consumed.
Wild Card now effects the party. TP restoration lowered from 400 to 200.
Loaded Deck changed from 40 to 30. Now locks in your current cards preventing them from being overwritten for a time.
Wildfire changed from level 30 to 35.
Leaden Salute changed from level 35 to 40.
Increased the buffs active cards give from 3% each to 5% each to account for new Loaded Deck.
Added the cross class abilities which I had forgotten to do. -
03-04-2014, 08:37 AMMartaDemireux
Changes to OP:
MSK:
New card system.
Split Shot, Hot Shot, Last Stand, Slug Shot, Sniper Shot and Detonator no longer involved in combos. Effects changed to accommodate new card system
Numbing Shot changed to accommodate new card system.
Sleep Shot, Open Fire no longer draw cards.
COR:
Wildfire, Leaden Salute, and Loaded Deck effect changed to accommodate new card system.
New Fold/Loaded Deck system.
Wild Card buffs no longer effect self.
CHM:
Pharmacology: Cards cannot be drawn.
Felt using combos was too boring so changed it up. As such I'm still looking at potencies and TP costs of their abilities and possibly adding in a new attack.