Introduction of the FF-VIII enemy difficulty system to FF-XIV

As your Character grows stronger, the enemies near Camp Bearded Rock and Camp Skull Valley become easier to kill. Its not much of a challenge to defeat an enemy with one hit now is it?

I propose we carry over an idea from FF-VIII. In FF-VIII the enemies gain strength as you do. this was difficult at times, but we may be able to salvage this system to make low level areas more enjoyable to high level players.

I do not intend for a Wharf Rat to be as strong as a Dire Rat so there should be a curve as to how much an enemy can be improved. Also there would be a limit to how weak an enemy can be.

If this system was used, the areas that are not for your rank wouldn't give you much experience points but still present an enjoyable battling experience. The areas that are for your rank would give you the same experience points as usual.

Uh.

How would this work? dLevel and HP aren't decided until you claim a monster or what? This is pretty much what already happens with enemies having random spawns in a certain level range.

Great, it's like endless level sync in the dunes with a twist.

VIII's system works because it was not a MMORPG, I don't think a system would work too well in actual game play because:

1) It doesn't ever encourage expanding your field of play
2) It will ruin the game play for new players, since the monsters near the town will always be claimed
3) The Economy will go crazy due to an abundance in Marmot meat and skin and little of much else

I'm curious about how VIII's system in an MMO would pan out, but honestly I don't think it would work. The notion of keeping high rank players in low rank areas seems like a huge step backwards. FFXIV already does this in a way, and many have already stated that they're tired of fighting the same mobs in the same areas all the way to cap. I just don't see it happening.

FFVIII had the character<->monster growth a bit imbalanced. Monster growth was usually high, more so with the big named monsters you'd run into. Your characters had very low growth and stats were determined by your magic junctions, which for that system made casting some magic useless.

Omega's got a point with marmot drops, if bite bugs weren't much harder to kill at 99 (actually FFVIII went to 100, but 99 is the common example) compared with everything else then you'd expect marmots to be the same. And since we can always change jobs, we'll still have a use for the weaker monsters for a while to come.

I don't remember FFVIII's leveling system being like that....

I don't meaning for them to be strong enough to make you want to play in that area, just strong enough so when you pass through a low level area the enemies aren't a waist of time.

No.
This doesn't work in single player games, and is very difficult to implement in an MMO, unless you eliminate progression entirely.

And no, I do not agree with OMEGA_HACK that it worked in FFVIII.

all i can say is ....really????

Yes! now instead of using up an entire zone to rank up we can all gather around camp bearded rock and kill rats. The system you're talking of TC was used in Oblivion in the Elder Scrolls series and it sucks big time from my experience.

Level scaling monsters has always been a terrible idea used to give small bestiaries a longer shelf life for players. FFXIV doesn't have this issue and can have multiple monsters of multiple levels throughout the game. Why would I want to stay at camp bearded rock for any longer than I can to get to the next tier of monsters.

I like going from

Mouse -> Rat -> Bat -> Deer -> Crab -> Skeletons -> Dragons -> crazy stuff.

It gives us a sense of becoming more powerfull, part of what the appeal of MMO's are, making monsters artificially stronger will just make us feel like progress is blunted on our end.

I'd prefer much more varied monster types or several stronger palette swaps(sparingly) in different higher level zones.

Monsters that scale with you never works right in MMOs. You can adjust monsters to group size, sure...but the VIII's system adjusted everything based on levels, which is why it was almost detrimental to level in that game..which is the opposite of what you'd wanna do in an MMO.

I got the answer! Screw xiv all together, and instead, just make a xiv level graphic client for xi. Problem solved.

You need to make the players move away from the city how ffxi did it. Near the city low level mobs as you go on they become strong which is what they going to do on a update. Making players fight the same mobs within the city area is not so great. I play beta1 and having 100+ players killing the same mob was hard you could not even level up ; ; so no to this idea it's sound great but then you have the problem of players staying at one spot forever to get the same item,gil,crystal and new players can't get anything.

They wouldn't have done that because that would be too like XI which is what they were moving away from as much as possible...it made me sad..I expected to see a monster progression..but instead it was just all over the place.

Zenaku, I see what your meaning. What if the difficulty scaling didn't affect the points earned, so if I'm rank-30 and i kill a rank-1 rat I'll get few to none experience points while still being difficult to kill it. Thus not creating an incentive to play in low rank areas, but still making the walk from Camp Bloodshore to Limsa Lominsa enjoyable.

Does anyone think that might fix the problem of players staying in low rank areas?

no thanks...you giving incentive for people to kill otherwise "low level" monsters for the new players which in turn hinders their gameplay, and makes them possibly quit the game due to not being able to level up effectively (something this game doesn't need atm)

yeah..im with everyone on this one. monster scaling is a terrible idea. I hated it in ff8, i hated it in oblivion. The idea that a monster levels with you really makes no sense. It would kill exploration/new zones even more so and hinder new players. Not to mention there would be no sense of accomplishment of leveling up and seeing the difference in damage,etc. Not gonna lie, hitting a level 1 marmot for 1.3k+ is pretty awesome/hilarious.

this is just a bad idea... will not work in mmorpg, perfect for single player only.

Theres plenty written about why this wont work already. Though it might work better for quests/instanced content monsters that only you/your party can fight so as to keep them challenging even if someone has max lv/rank. They already have a system like it with the leve system where you can choose the difficulty which alters the monster's levels though it has it limits. They could implement something like that with said content which improves the rewards on higher difficulty settings.

Alaltus, you are a genius. I was thinking about that but didn't want to over post. that would allow Dimo to hit a marmot with 1.3k+ while still allowing you to have some fun in low rank levequests.

So basically they could just add a super mega hard setting for levequests. or maybe a few that will be unlocked as your rank goes up.

Does that sound more MMORPG friendly?

(If that came off as sarcastic i didn't mean it to be)

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

You need to make the players move away from the city how ffxi did it. Near the city low level mobs as you go on they become strong which is what they going to do on a update. Making players fight the same mobs within the city area is not so great. I play beta1 and having 100+ players killing the same mob was hard you could not even level up ; ; so no to this idea it's sound great but then you have the problem of players staying at one spot forever to get the same item,gil,crystal and new players can't get anything.

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imma aggree Also I do not recall ff8 having monster scaling. I played through the game alot and never seen it. But ya scaling do nort work in mmo. Need a point in leveling up. I liked how ffxi scaled it mobs. I wanted to do the same in ffxiv, but I keep running into the toklin high level. XD like some R20 angler in a group of R3 marmots... scared the poo outa me when I was doing a leve.

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Originally Posted by Dimo

yeah..im with everyone on this one. monster scaling is a terrible idea. I hated it in ff8, i hated it in oblivion. The idea that a monster levels with you really makes no sense. It would kill exploration/new zones even more so and hinder new players. Not to mention there would be no sense of accomplishment of leveling up and seeing the difference in damage,etc. Not gonna lie, hitting a level 1 marmot for 1.3k+ is pretty awesome/hilarious.

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it was different in oblivion. as you leveled different types of mobs show up in the maps so there would be a constent challenge no matter how you play or what level. Morrowwind was similar. Pretty much as you level mobs are replaced It wasn't "the same mob" only stronger. LIke doing kvhatch @ 10 meant you mostly fought those fire creatures. instead of scamps.

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Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus

imma aggree Also I do not recall ff8 having monster scaling. I played through the game alot and never seen it. But ya scaling do nort work in mmo. Need a point in leveling up. I liked how ffxi scaled it mobs. I wanted to do the same in ffxiv, but I keep running into the toklin high level. XD like some R20 angler in a group of R3 marmots... scared the poo outa me when I was doing a leve.

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Then you need to read this because it existed. http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/F...e_and_Leveling

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Originally Posted by Sonic_the_Hedgehog

Then you need to read this because it existed. http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/F...e_and_Leveling

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never noticed... I just played the game w.o grinding. I plaued ff8 about 10 times so ya.. :P never really noticed this feature.

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Originally Posted by Rinoa

Zenaku, I see what your meaning. What if the difficulty scaling didn't affect the points earned, so if I'm rank-30 and i kill a rank-1 rat I'll get few to none experience points while still being difficult to kill it. Thus not creating an incentive to play in low rank areas, but still making the walk from Camp Bloodshore to Limsa Lominsa enjoyable.

Does anyone think that might fix the problem of players staying in low rank areas?

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I don't think this makes walking any more interesting than it already isn't.

Especially since taking time to kill a Marmot will...take longer.

I dont agree with this, you should have to travel further out as you get higher not be able to get rank 1-50 around beard rock and piss off a bunch of low/new players at the same time.

I don't like the idea for this game. Level scaling is a terrible idea. Why to fight rats from 1 to 50 at same area...

I get what you guys are saying. It only would have a chance of working in a single player game, not in an MMO. After all it was just an idea.

I actually like the idea of enemies leveling up with you in theory, but it seems kind of unnecessary since in any RPG, you'll be hitting different zones with stronger, diverse types of enemies.

No thank you, this was by far the worst thing about FF8 and I still wonder how the hell they thought it was a good idea to create a system where leveling up the least possible is more beneficial to you than actually playing the game. Such as getting Diabolos the instant you had the option too, just one example of how stupid that system is.

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Originally Posted by Colino

No thank you, this was by far the worst thing about FF8 and I still wonder how the hell they thought it was a good idea to create a system where leveling up the least possible is more beneficial to you than actually playing the game. Such as getting Diabolos the instant you had the option too, just one example of how stupid that system is.

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Maybe because some people hate leveling up? Also not having to grind and increase your levels gave you more time to play the game.

Most players hated that feature in VIII most players hated that feature in Oblivion. In fact players themselves fixed the game by making a patch for it.

One shotting easy enemies that used to kick your butt is the most fun part of leveling. I still remember the empowered feeling of running past the Valkrum tunnel bats after getting past lvl 13.