What do you think has the highest dmg scaling late game? I'm looking for a class that can deal highest mellee DPS.. Thanks :D
Monk vs Dragoon DPS
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12-09-2013, 10:49 PMJiggleMonk vs Dragoon DPS
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12-09-2013, 10:52 PMFire_Lotus
At the moment Dragoon synergies better with most parties because of the piercing debuff, which increases the damage done by your party's bards.
On paper, Monk should deal more damage, but in actuality, they are relatively equal imo. Monk might even be worse, depending on how the player maintains his buffs, debuffs, and positioning. More often then not, most Monks will lose their Greased Lightning stacks for one reason or another, reducing their DPS by a large margin. -
12-09-2013, 11:16 PMGooner_iBluAirJGRI feel the same way. I play them both and they each have slightly different quirks about them but I've never felt like one does significantly more damage than the other. I think it boils down to more of a preference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fire_Lotus
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12-10-2013, 12:01 AMBlueMage
Monk has higher potential, but its rarely reached unless both the player is skilled enough and the situations allow for the class to be played optimally. Monk is heavily reliant on always being in the right position, and with the way Monks buffs/debuffs work with ramp-up time and quick buff/debuff drop-off, even very small periods of time not attacking (such as Ifrit's rush tackle phase, or having to move out of melee range to avoid Titan's bombs) can hurt Monks DPS pretty severely.
While, yes, Dragoon has a couple of positions, it isn't nearly every single attack like Monk, and even if a Dragoon isn't able to get off their positionals, it doesn't come anywhere near how much it hurts Monk's DPS. Dragoon is much easier to play, making it a better DPS from a practical standpoint, as the Dragoon is more likely to consistently pump out higher numbers because its easier to play. And, since people tend to be hyper defensive around here, I'll clarify that I'm not bashing any classes, as I play both relic Monk and relic Dragoon. -
12-10-2013, 12:33 AMSasagawa
I would say both classes are easy to play, but hard to master
However,
It is easier to spot a bad Monk than it is a bad dragoon, due to the positioning differences.
Good monks will do consistent DPS that should be higher than a dragoon overall
However a dragoon will do very good DPS in short bursts. the issue many players have with dragoon is they dont really know how to use the job correctly.
A great example is conflags in T5 if you have 2 dragoons in the party they can easily generate 2k + damage in a matter of seconds from jumps, combined with internal release blood for blood etc. they can top that off with their normal weapon skills and high critical rate to do a very fast burst of damage in a short amount of time. there is no excuse for a party to fail on conflag DPS with 2 dragoons.
On the other hand monks rely on Damage over time, they consistently hit quicker and quicker to the limit of GL and then if they maintain that they get additional hits through the fight due to a low GCD. the only thing about Monks is there burst damage is slightly lower.
The way I think about it is that dragoons are like the BLM of melee and Monks are like the SMN of melee (Albeit the DOT is harder to do consistently on monk). -
12-10-2013, 12:38 AMPArcherMaybe its because I have the class down about as well as I can get it...but I've been seeing a ton more bad DRG than bad MNK recently. Not using HT, using CT-combo right as a trash-mob dies...Jumping into an obvious AoE...thankfully I haven't seen any BFBing right before an unavoidable AoE yet lolQuote:
Originally Posted by BlueMage
On-topic, if you have a MNK and DRG in similar gear, the MNK should out-DPS the DRG on single targets (not by a ton, but enough that it matters), but the DRG will completely destroy the MNK on AoE. -
12-10-2013, 01:03 AMBlueMageThat has nothing to do with Dragoon being a difficult class. That has to do with a lot of dumb Leeroy Jenkins types being attracted to the "Dragon Knight" archetype and giving us a bad reputation. Its like Bards getting hit by plumes: No matter how simple and convenient a class may be, it cant fix a stupid/bad player.Quote:
Originally Posted by PArcher
True. Though things like fight duration and positionals/movement still matter. A DRG will out DPS a MNK on Demonwall, for example, because DRG only needs to go to the side once every 20 seconds to maintain their damage buff, whereas most Monk abilities deal reduced damage if not executed from the correct position. If I run in circles non-stop while tanking on my Paladin, the Monk is gonna be a lot more irritated than the Dragoon.Quote:
Originally Posted by PArcher
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12-10-2013, 01:13 AMRiichi
Monk probably scales better with gear than DRG, but not by much. They're both similar in style and I find both to be quite fun. But to those saying DRG brings more to groups than MNK. No. Just no. A 10 dps damage boost to one player is hardly group synergy. I'd MUCH rather have a constant -10% int debuff on the boss. A well timed, traited Mantra is invaluable to a group. It will make or break fights while you're progressing (t4 phase 6 comes to mind.) DRG is a bit tankier which is nice if they pull aggro on adds, though featherfoot and a massive self heal is just as good, so I'll call that a tie. DRG generally has better static AOE, but saying they destroy MNK? I'm guessing you've never seen a MNK use B4B, IR, PB, Rockbreaker spam..
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12-10-2013, 02:19 AMWarrlordd
A DRG's dps value should be held up against whether you have a static with a BRD in it or not. Realistically, a 10% resistance debuff is +11% damage increase (approx.) so if your BRD does 200 dps with you as drg then you could say 11% is your dps. Which comes to 22 dps. Don't forget to include that in ur thought process
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12-10-2013, 02:29 AMRochetmRight now Mnk is higher and will likely stay there... however... with the way skill speed works with GL monks are running into a TP problem already. We also do not have threat reduction... One of those two issues is going to really start restricting us in the near future and it is at that point Drg will likely pull ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiggle
Also should note that Drg burst is much better (add killing) and Drg has better AoE. -
12-10-2013, 04:45 AMRiichiI did include it. That's why I said I prefer all the things I listed about MNK over the slight dps increase of one party member. Saying DRG's have better group synergy because they allow your bard to do 22 more dps is outright ignorant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrlordd
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12-10-2013, 08:07 AMneoreturn
Drg is way better than MNK.
1. Strong aoe make them very good for end game turn 4 and WP SR tome farm.
2. Very strong burst Dmg. Good for turn 5 and in coming pvp. Turn5 conflagration so far is the only place need real DPS.
3. Better look gear and action animation
4. DRG can tank better than MNK.
after 2.1 DRG will be king of DPS. -
12-10-2013, 08:37 AMHouston009How is DRG "way better" than MNK?Quote:
Originally Posted by neoreturn
1. MNK has strong AOE potential aswell as DRG (PB + Buffs + Rockbreaker spam, consistent buff from GL3 and FoF)
2. MNK specializes in high sustained damage and most cases do more overall damage than DRG. They also have great ways of bursting damage.
3. Have you seen the MNK Allagan gear compared to DRG/BRD's allagan? And that ninja gear from CT is superb.
4. MNK has Fist of Earth that reduces ALL damage by 10% consistently. They have means of reducing/evading further damage and healing themselves on top of it. :cool: -
12-10-2013, 09:03 AMAtreides
Just ignore neoreturn, he 's been trolling in the DPS forums for a while now, always ranting on about how weak and useless monks are and talking about "King of DPS".
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12-10-2013, 09:04 AMBrandoH
Every skilled MNK I've seen has SIGNIFICANTLY outperformed every other DPS in party, except good SMNs, where they only mildy outperform then. It's a really strong class, but you better be dedicated, because it's annoyingly difficult to play. I honestly prefer DRG, less positioning and you can still put out solid DPS. After they fix our stupid Jump animations, I'll have a lot more fun. The amount of keybinds you need are crazy, though.
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12-10-2013, 09:17 AMCrimzunAeounQuote:
Originally Posted by BlueMage
I am not sure if anyone can hit the flank of the demon wall, ive tried as a dragoon and never did i notice heavy thrust to activate :/ -
12-10-2013, 09:26 AMWarrlorddYou need to stand right up near the wall beside his face, but it can be done.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimzunAeoun
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12-10-2013, 09:28 AMRemnyes you can do flank on Demon wall. my MNK did 600-700 crit on demon wall with flank rotation, you can only get those number when you atking on flank.Quote:
Originally Posted by CrimzunAeoun
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12-10-2013, 09:30 AMRemnyou can also use the target circle on the boss the determined the flank position.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrlordd
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12-10-2013, 10:16 AMCrimzunAeounQuote:
Originally Posted by Remn
i must try this again lol because i have gotten a black screen before for standing too close to demon wall and then i would be teleported to the entranced of the room, I think it was intended incase someone got past the wall during the fight but i always thought the actual flank of the wall was not accessible