Coil T2 rage mode...

So today I joined a group to do Coil T2. I was really surprised and a bit shocked when I saw the 1-4-3 formation (1 WAR tank, 4 DDs with 2 BRD/1 DRG/1 BLM, 2 WHMs and 1 SCH), 1 of the healers even has only Ifrit cane and AK gear. I asked myself: How the fuck are we gonna do this?
However I stayed anyway since it is Sunday already and I got no choice. The leader explained to me that we are doing rage mode: "We'll kill the trash nodes as usual, but then we wait until 1 click, charge in, get 2 silence, and manage to get as close as the rot phase before 0 click. We don't want to reach the rot phase, just get close to 75%, if we get there before 0 click then stop DPSing until 0 click. When it reaches 0 click, there will be no more abilities, just AoE over and over again, healers will spam Medica and DD just DPS like there is no tomorrow. BRDs will keep both of your Ballad up".
I was skeptical at first, but somehow it... actually worked, we downed the ADS on 2nd try...

I think to myself, if this way of doing T2 will become a new trend? No more rot pain in the ass, no laser, no pac-man, no void, no need of voice communication, no Blunt Arrow. It might be more intense, but it is easier, and also some find it not so really intense... Healers just need to spam Medica, DDs just need to do their normal rotations, tank just needs to get to DPS mode. Heck, no need to be really well-geared either... Supposed doing this way with 3 "Relic+1/AF2/Allagan 11 pieces" healers, it would even be easier...
Any of you have done this before?

It will probably be patched, especially since people like you blow the whistle on it and post all over the forums for the wrong people to see.

Did the tank still get stacks after 0 click?

Yes Sirocco I did this with my fc last night with 1 PLD/1 DRG/1 BRD/1 SMN/1 MNK/2 WHM/1 SCH and it worked like a CHARM. It went well with 2 healers instead of one? As a sch all I had to do was keep sacred soil and succor up and toss a virus here and there :p I didn't even need to aoe as hard as I did since the aoe damage is not so intense.

So it is a bug that make everything stop after 0 click?

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Originally Posted by Alise

I don't understand... normally you will all wipe due to 0 click bomb right? but it doesn't bomb? so it is simply a bug?

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0 clicks isn't a bomb, ADS just starts doing Super Tumults. Kinda like Turn 4s rage timer except a little stronger.

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Originally Posted by Alise

I don't understand... normally you will all wipe due to 0 click bomb right? but it doesn't bomb? so it is simply a bug?

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no explosions, just the ADS has enrage timer that causes it to go to the middle of the room, and hit the entire room with an AOE that hits for 1.5k every second or so.

Should have just made the enrage timer AoE do 5k dmg per pulse rather than whatever it currently is. Wouldn't be surprised if SE decided to patch this eventually.

Definitely not working as intended, you should report this as an exploit.

.... Wow kinda silly se really needs new testers I mean you can't blame people for doing the fight the easiest way possible .

This is laughable to say the least.

How come every time alternate solutions to problems are found people cry exploit not working as intended etc. You can either deal with the boss abilities or mass damage spam.

Most static groups will continue doing the fight normally as we'd rather not wait around for 6 minutes when we could finish the fight and move on long before that.

Similarly, people cried foul when groups started stacking for sands in Titan cus "zomg its not covering as much of the anrea as it should qq fix."

Its just an alternate, and time consuming, solution. Even the rot - auto cascade method has been called exploit.

There is no right or wrong way to play this game lol. TBH, why not do it?

Nobody ever mentions cure 3. One of the few times it has a use, I put it to great effect when I did this strat.

I don't even understand this. Why make an easy fight even easier? Is tank swapping and playing hot potato really that difficult?

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

How come every time alternate solutions to problems are found people cry exploit not working as intended etc.

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Probably because it didn't work like that before. 0 clicks used to insta-wipe the raid. So, it's either a bug or SE ninja-nerfed ADS.

I fail to see how this can be considered an exploit.

If you're geared enough to DPS it down and heal through the damage then I see it as just another means of defeating the boss. It's not like you're ignoring a mechanic, you're just handling a different one.

Havnt done it, probably wont as I dont pug, but props to the guys who thought it up, really quite fascinating

Definitely not an exploit..

How is this an exploit? I'm usually careful to avoid groups that exploit mechanics, but there is no exploit here.

- You're not bugging the boss.
- You're not bugging the zone.
- You're not using any "trick" mechanics like mob-resetting at a boss-zone (which isn't an exploit anyways, according to SE).

If this is an exploit, so is burning Caduceus without popping adds. The enrage timers are a mechanic, just like anything else in the zone. If SE decides they don't like players beating ADS after he enrages, they'll adjust the zone, and this strat will be pointless. Until then, I see nothing in this that suggests cheating.

Pretty sure it's not working as intended to be able to heal through that damage. An enrage timer is something that's supposed to force you to end an encounter quickly, not start it at >75%.

With that said I doubt there'll be any repercussions for those who choose to utilize this strategy until SE decides to (if they do) alter the encounter.

I'm not sure that it's any more an enrage timer than Emergency Override is at the end of T4. (The damage spam at the end of T4 is high, but it doesn't escalate over time; if there are enough heals to go around you can extend Turn 4 well past the 7 minute mark).

This strat would make Turn 2 take a minimum of 14-15 minutes, instead of knocking it out in 9-10. The "complex" short fight gets exchanged for a longer one with "simpler" mechanics requiring a custom raid build for extra heals and the ability to rush DPS before mana's depleted.

I'm seeing this as a tomato/to-mah-to kind of thing.

basically just changed it from a mechanics fight to a tank and spank

people ask for harder content and then they do whatever they can to make it easier.... oh well to each their own

Anything that bypasses all of the mechanics of a boss is clearly an exploit to me, at least. I'd report this so they could ninja in a hotfix sooner than later.

its not bypassing the mechanics its more like using the mechanics to gain an advantage that wasn't really intended

Until a mod says something, everything is here-say. Even if it's not an exploit, I wouldn't want to do this method until it's deemed not one from a mod or admin. I wouldn't want a 'Salvage' mass banning to go on like FFXI had. /shudder

SE has a serious problem on their hands if players are constantly nervous about trying new strategies. Having done this T2 method myself, I assure you, everything worked as intended. We had a very specific setup that included 3 healers, 2 bards, and only 1 tank. Us bards had to coordinate our ballad to make sure the healers could keep the heals flowing during the burn. I seemed to be taking plenty of damage, and if it wasn't for the 3 healers + Sacred Soil + Rain of Death (+Virus? can't remember), I don't know that it would have been survivable.

The only way SE is going to mitigate the use of new strats like this is to lock all raid content to the 4/2/2 setup, and that would be boring. Part of the fun of raiding is finding what works for your own group and adjusting your strategies to match. There can't be just one way to do everything, or SE would quickly lose players over boredom. Utilizing zone mechanics to your advantage is smart playing, not cheating/glitching/exploiting, and that's all this strat does.

If you're winning the fight without having to deal with any of the boss moves (other than enrage AoE), do you really think it's working as intended?

Edit: Yes you're dealing with High Voltage, Piercing Laser and Cannons for 1 minute or so...then they just stop and you won't even see any of the other moves? If any boss gets stuck into not using any moves and you only get hit by one regular AoE while everyone stands still and hit their rotations, I wouldn't call that a "strategy" but finding a way to skip the actual fight.

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Originally Posted by CatholicFan

SE has a serious problem on their hands if players are constantly nervous about trying new strategies.

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I think people have a right to be really cautious when proceeding. SE has been really random when it comes to banhammers if you go off of FFXI. I think people are just worried about one mistake causing them to lose months they put into a character. In the end I don't feel it's worth it. I agree with you, I wish they would be more open and clear right away when something is okay/not okay.

Thank you for posting this strategy on the official SE forums.

This is why we can't have nice things.

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Originally Posted by Taika

If you're winning the fight without having to deal with any of the boss moves (other than enrage AoE), do you really think it's working as intended?

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Except, you are dealing with his moves until the enrage goes off. You still have to deal with all of ADS' moves before the enrage kicks in. It's for a shorter amount of time and it avoids Allagan Rot, but you're still engaging the boss normally. I mean, if he enrages during around 75% during a "normal" attempt, but you still down him after the enrage has gone off, did you somehow cheat? No. If you beat a mob before it can do {Move X}, are you cheating? Obviously, the answer is also no. SE designed the zone so that after 11 clicks, the boss enrages; he doesn't insta-wipe, he just does massive AoE damage. Timing it to avoid a troubling mechanic is called strategy, not cheating. Cheating would be glitching ADS in a wall so he couldn't do something, or finding a place in the zone where players couldn't be targeted while attacking. Those are exploits; this T2 strat is not.

Players may not be beating the zone "as intended", but that doesn't equate to doing something wrong or against the Terms of Service. If SE decides they don't like the strat, they'll implement a change. People need to stop calling legitimate ideas for zone completion "exploits". It makes honest players nervous to try new things, and that's just unhealthy for the game community.

I would like to see T2 & T4 enrage moves start to escalate instead of being a flat damage move

either a 12345678 kind of progression or the first 3 attacks are at level 1 the next 3 attacks are at level 2 some thing like that

I would like enrage to be like T5, insta-wipe, thats why the enrage is there for.

I don't understand what the issue is?

This start takes longer. is not 100% win. does not glitch the mob. and if they had wanted it to just kill you when it hit 0 the instance would have just ended when clicks hit 0.
It really seems like this was always a possible strategy for this fight, I wouldn't be surprised if they patch it out with all the whiners calling it an exploit but its really just not.

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Originally Posted by CatholicFan

How is this an exploit? I'm usually careful to avoid groups that exploit mechanics, but there is no exploit here.

- You're not bugging the boss.
- You're not bugging the zone.
- You're not using any "trick" mechanics like mob-resetting at a boss-zone (which isn't an exploit anyways, according to SE).

If this is an exploit, so is burning Caduceus without popping adds. The enrage timers are a mechanic, just like anything else in the zone. If SE decides they don't like players beating ADS after he enrages, they'll adjust the zone, and this strat will be pointless. Until then, I see nothing in this that suggests cheating.

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This exactly.

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

I would like enrage to be like T5, insta-wipe, thats why the enrage is there for.

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This isn't WoW. An "Enrage timer" doesn't have to mean instant death.

That's not a mechanic. That just forces you to finish an encounter at the pace SE sets for you instead of your own.

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Originally Posted by CatholicFan

Except, you are dealing with his moves until the enrage goes off. You still have to deal with all of ADS' moves before the enrage kicks in.

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Oh, you mean the exact same moves he does in T1, less the debuff stacking on the tank? Let's completely ignore the fact that he gains a new moveset every 25% of health that ticks down which incrementally increases the fight's difficulty. Instead, "Let's ignore all of the mechanics of this fight and just bring in an extra healer to heal through the constant AOE damage that we weren't supposed to drag the fight out long enough to see anyway."

There are no exploits here, but I'm pretty sure SE didn't account for "player ingenuity" in bringing in an extra healer to sidestep all of the fight mechanics after a point.

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Originally Posted by VidulaSaix

This isn't WoW. An "Enrage timer" doesn't have to mean instant death.

That's not a mechanic. That just forces you to finish an encounter at the pace SE sets for you instead of your own.

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I dont know how this "Enrage timer" work on WoW because I never played it, but in FFXI when the mob rage is was practically a wipe, wasn't insta-dead but there was no way to recover from it.

I don't understand the people that are calling for a fix on this. I assume you all would be fine with an instant wipe in turn 4 as well? This strategy helps out PUGs. All the statics are going to continue doing it the 'normal' way anyway.

EDIT:
In the FF11 I only know of the rage timers on Faf/Nid and other kings and that was mainly to combat the JPs holding them to drag the spawn time to their time zone. Not that it matters but thats in open world and not instanced.

If SE wanted ADS to be not beatable after 0 clicks the would have made it an instant kill.

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Originally Posted by Orophin

Oh, you mean the exact same moves he does in T1, less the debuff stacking on the tank? Let's completely ignore the fact that he gains a new moveset every 25% of health that ticks down which incrementally increases the fight's difficulty. Instead, "Let's ignore all of the mechanics of this fight and just bring in an extra healer to heal through the constant AOE damage that we weren't supposed to drag the fight out long enough to see anyway."

There are no exploits here, but I'm pretty sure SE didn't account for "player ingenuity" in bringing in an extra healer to sidestep all of the fight mechanics after a point.

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I would hardly call bringing an extra healer instead of a second tank "player ingenuity". If that's the case, then an extra healer/dps setup for Titan HM is just as much of an "exploit". Also, you're not sidestepping "all of the fight mechanics", you're just picking which ones you want to deal with (i.e. the AoE). It also requires you to have nominally competent healers and tank to handle the stacks of the Nodes. As others have said, this is no different than power-healing through T4's enrage. Honestly, I'm surprised nobody proposed this strategy earlier.